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What is the bravest act in history?

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What is the bravest act in history?
    Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 07:03
any choices?
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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 07:16

Battle of Thermopylae


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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 08:57
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising 1943

In April 1943 the population of the Jewish Ghetto in Warsaw rebelled against its deportation to Concentrations Camps by the Nazis.
750 Jewish fighters armed with small guns held out for a month against the entire force of the German occupying army.
The Uprising was crushed in May and the surviving 50.000 Jewish citizens were send to the gas-chambers of Treblinka.

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising



German gun crew in the Warsaw Ghetto
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 10:34
Well, even though there are many events that could be mentioned. My personal favorite is:
On the entrance of the Nazis in Athens, the Evzone on the Prthenon, was ordered to take down the Hellinic flag. He calmly took down the Hellinic flag wrapped it around himself and jumped off the cliff of the Parthenon and met his death.
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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 11:00
The defence of Constantinople 1453, a true example alongside Thermopylae of a vigorous and desperately brave struggle for survival.
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  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 11:16

Heraclius

In fact It is not, They had a wall never passed, and when wall colapsed, they lost war too. It was the wall protected them.

there are a lot of time Albanians did better job than this.

I think, In turkey history, It is anakkale wars.

 

 

 

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 11:54

Originally posted by Phallanx

Well, even though there are many events that could be mentioned. My personal favorite is:
On the entrance of the Nazis in Athens, the Evzone on the Prthenon, was ordered to take down the Hellinic flag. He calmly took down the Hellinic flag wrapped it around himself and jumped off the cliff of the Parthenon and met his death.

This is probably a myth. The name of the guard was supposivelly Koukkides, but such a name was never in the Euzon ranks and noone knows someone who knew him. The story was widespread but most likelly it was told in the harsh times of nazi occupation as a symbol of resistance.

However what Manolis Glezos and his friend did, was trully heroic and true. They climbed on Acropolis at night, passed the Nazi guards, climbed up the poll and took down the swastika flag. They managed to escape with the flag and lived to tell the tale.

But I wonder what has happened to the poor German guard who was on duty that night

 

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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 12:01
Originally posted by Murtaza

Heraclius

In fact It is not, They had a wall never passed, and when wall colapsed, they lost war too. It was the wall protected them.

there are a lot of time Albanians did better job than this.

I think, In turkey history, It is anakkale wars.

 

 I disagree, theres alot more to it than just a wall.

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  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 12:53

Heraclius

Yes there is more than it.

Their empire is great one. He fight with passion, and died with honour.

Even Ottoman family accept it. 2. Abdulhamid told it to his brother when His brother want to retreat from Istanbul.

And He said,  "Byzantium King died at the wall of Istanbul, we were no worse than him. "

But I dont think and heard, Soldiers did a heroic defense and but They fight good.

And I dont think It is a survival war, Greeks at the Istanbul prefered Ottomans over latins. Even At third crusaders, Greeks dont help crusaders agains Turk.

So I think they dont afraid so much from the Ottomans. They afraid from latins more and more.

 

 

 

 

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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 13:07
Originally posted by Yiannis

Originally posted by Phallanx

Well, even though there are many events that could be mentioned. My personal favorite isn the entrance of the Nazis in Athens, the Evzone on the Prthenon, was ordered to take down the Hellinic flag. He calmly took down the Hellinic flag wrapped it around himself and jumped off the cliff of the Parthenon and met his death.


This is probably a myth. The name of the guard was supposivelly Koukkides, but such a name was never in the Euzon ranks and noone knows someone who knew him. The story was widespread but most likelly it was told in the harsh times of nazi occupation as a symbol of resistance.


However what Manolis Glezos and his friend did, was trully heroic and true. They climbed on Acropolis at night, passed the Nazi guards, climbed up the poll and took down the swastika flag. They managed to escape with the flag and lived to tell the tale.


But I wonder what has happened to the poor German guard who was on duty that night




This remembers me the storming of Chapultepec Castle on September 15, 1847.

A handful of cadets of the militar academy remained to defend the castle from the american invaders.
The Cadet Juan Escutia climbled to the top of the castle and wrapped it around himself and jumped off the cliffs.

There's a monument erected in the place where is body was found.

He was 20 years old when he died.



Edited by Jalisco Lancer
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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 13:19
Originally posted by Murtaza

Heraclius

Yes there is more than it.

Their empire is great one. He fight with passion, and died with honour.

Even Ottoman family accept it. 2. Abdulhamid told it to his brother when His brother want to retreat from Istanbul.

And He said,  "Byzantium King died at the wall of Istanbul, we were no worse than him. "

But I dont think and heard, Soldiers did a heroic defense and but They fight good.

And I dont think It is a survival war, Greeks at the Istanbul prefered Ottomans over latins. Even At third crusaders, Greeks dont help crusaders agains Turk.

So I think they dont afraid so much from the Ottomans. They afraid from latins more and more.

 If the inhabitants of Constantinople would have preferred the Ottomans as rulers then they could have ousted the Byzantine Emperor and the remnants of its government.

 I think youll find the people of Constantinople would have preferred to be ruled by Greeks over Turks. Ive seen no evidence to think otherwise but I dont doubt they'd of wanted anything other than the Latins back.

 It was a battle of survival because the Emperor will have known that if the city fell Byzantiums identity would almost certinaly be destroyed along with the empire. It wasnt just as simple as a city swapping hands, it was the end of a civilisation which despite its dramatic changes from its origins could trace its history back to especially Constantine and the Roman Emperors who built up the empire.

 Mistra and Trebizond lasted a little longer but with the fall of Constantinople in 1453 the Byzantine empire was destroyed forever, therefore its defence being as you said and as quoted was brave and the defeat was honourable one befitting an empire, I consider that defence one of the bravest acts. IMO

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 13:33
Originally posted by Yiannis

But I wonder what has happened to the poor German guard who was on duty that night

 

prolly he had to do the dirty laundry of his officers...

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  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 14:43

Originally posted by Heraclius

 If the inhabitants of Constantinople would have preferred the Ottomans as rulers then they could have ousted the Byzantine Emperor and the remnants of its government.

Well said Heraclius..

 I think youll find the people of Constantinople would have preferred to be ruled by Greeks over Turks. Ive seen no evidence to think otherwise but I dont doubt they'd of wanted anything other than the Latins back.

 It was a battle of survival because the Emperor will have known that if the city fell Byzantiums identity would almost certinaly be destroyed along with the empire. It wasnt just as simple as a city swapping hands, it was the end of a civilisation which despite its dramatic changes from its origins could trace its history back to especially Constantine and the Roman Emperors who built up the empire.

 Mistra and Trebizond lasted a little longer but with the fall of Constantinople in 1453 the Byzantine empire was destroyed forever, therefore its defence being as you said and as quoted was brave and the defeat was honourable one befitting an empire, I consider that defence one of the bravest acts. IMO

The ultimate heroic act is only one : The sacrifice , when there is nothing to hope for.

And the Greek History is full of them heroisms..... Even the very words "hero" , "heroism" are greek words...

Thermopylae : Leonidas , with his 300 Spartans and the 1000 Thespians , knows very well that he cant hold against 100.000 Persians . He also knows that by fighting and not retreating , he will give time  to the other Greeks to gather forces....He also knows what would mean the death of a Spartan king....And he stays. His sacrifice has all the impact he had predicted ...The Greeks will gather and they will win the decisive battle with the Persians...A well calculated military and political act from Leonidas...

Konstantinopolis : By May 1453 the East Roman Empire , the Byzantine Empire , the Greek Empire , is only Konstantinopolis. Surrounded by almost 200.00 Turks and janissaries , she counts her last days ...As u said Heraclius , the people know what has already happened to the Greek cities in Asia Minor and they dont have any hope. If the defenders were not surrender their city , the citizens were massacred , the young boys were taken to become janissaries , and the rest were sold as slaves .... If they surrender their city , a number of citizens were taken as hostages , prefferably women and children....and a number of men were executed as a lesson to be learned of what will happen to them if they decide , ever . to revolt against their masters...

So the last emperor takes his decisions ... He will fight , a desperate and hopless fight , but he will keep the people and the church away of this fight....hoping that they will not be maltreated if they wont fight....So , in his last hours , he puts the foundations of the Greek milliet ...the Orthodox Patriarchate...So he proceeds with his sacrifice , even if it takes the hand of someone to open a small side door , Kerkoporta , for the Turks to enter...But , he is half wrong ..... The city and its citizens will have a 3 days of slaughter and plunder ...... and to honor the city , the conqueror enters the Agia Sofia , on his horse....So much for honor of the defeated empire...

In Epirus , the clan of Souliotes , Greeks and Arvanites together , they have fought a long fight with Ali Pasha , the TurkAlbanian dictator of Ioannina...Now they are cornered up in the mountains along with their women and children ... And when they are almost all dead or wounded , the TurkAlbanians call to the women to surrender .... to live . But the women know better....Singing and dancing , one by one they jump over the cliff with their children in their arms , choosing death , than slavery in the TurkAlbanian hands...

In the monastery of Arkadi , when all is lost , the monk Samuel , inthe basement of the Monastery along with the wounded  will wait calmly for the Turks to enter the monastery and then he sets fire to the gunpowder sacrificing himself and the wounded , saving them from a torturous death in the hands of the Turks , and killing as many of the enemy , as he can..

In the fortifications of Rupel , the Nazi war machine , will present arms to the few that stood there defending their country against the Germans , as these few march bearing their arms , after they were outflancked...

Along with Glezos , as Yannis said , and a lot others who will give their lives during the nazi occupation , for freedom , all these men and women , give reason to the words : The Greeks do not fight like heroes...Heroes fight like Greeks...

Isk..

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 14:46
Originally posted by iskenderani

The ultimate heroic act is only one : The sacrifice , when there is nothing to hope for.

like suicide bombers?

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  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 14:56
Originally posted by Temujin

Originally posted by iskenderani

The ultimate heroic act is only one : The sacrifice , when there is nothing to hope for.

like suicide bombers?

Yes...i believe that the kamikaze were a brave lot of people , believing in their country and dying a heroic death...

They sacrificed willingly...

Isk..

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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 15:03

 It does take bravery to commit suicide to inflict harm upon an enemy, just as brave as a soldier instead of fleeing charging into the enemy when death is certain, that is just as suicidal with the same general result.

 I dont want to get into the whole Greeks hyping up Greek history up so to belittle the Turks or vice versa. I merely stated what I believe to be a heroic act that is all if you disagree you have every right to do so.



Edited by Heraclius
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 15:08
so you all think the assault on the world trade center was a heroic act or what?
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  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 15:11

Heraclius
Heroic act of greeks will not belittle us

After All we overpowered Heroes

But as I said you before, even their emperor is a hero, there is not any proof other are hero. When wall gone, Byzantium also gone.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 15:14

i think that the bravest act, perhaps not in history, but in recent history is the soldier who jumps onto the grenade to protect the others around him... that takes balls.

 

but apart from that.. the bravest act in history in my opinion is the 3000 Greeks who fought against the reputed army of 1 million Persians (slave nations etc)... and it was only at the end of the fighting... when Leonidas and what remained of the original 300 Spartans fighting with him chose to remain behind and delay the Persians until death. while the remaining survivors of the other 2700 greeks were able to make good their escape.

Go Tell The Spartans, Stranger Passing By, That Here Obedient To Their Laws We Lie

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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 15:18

Originally posted by Temujin

so you all think the assault on the world trade center was a heroic act or what?

 I fail to see how a man who commits suicide can be considered cowardly, his motive is free to be bereted but his bravery not. That doesnt take away from the fact his act may or not be wrong or unjust.

Originally posted by Murtaza

Heraclius
Heroic act of greeks will not belittle us

After All we overpowered Heroes

But as I said you before, even their emperor is a hero, there is not any proof other are hero. When wall gone, Byzantium also gone.

 I was referring to the way Greeks often accuse the turks of being vicious and savages and vice versa, it usually occurs when this subject of 1453 comes up, alot of greeks find it a touchy subject when turks talk about it as a great event.

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