Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Population through History

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
bobcool View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 30-Jun-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote bobcool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Population through History
    Posted: 30-Jun-2005 at 02:16
HulaguHan wrote:

I am a Timur fan

 

Mod edit due to language



Edited by Dawn
I SUPREME
Back to Top
HulaguHan View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 26-Jan-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 370
  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2005 at 19:37

When peoples of Mongolia clame that Gokturk empire belongs to them ,they mean that Turks and Mongols together formed the Gokturk empire, And it is true that Turkic tribes were Dominoat in that Empire but this empire centered in Mongolia and it is considered on of the heritages of Mongolia.
Like In Iran We consider safavids are Iranian (not Iranic) at the same time founders of this dynasty spoke  Azari so What? This does not mean that we are descendants of safavids neither means that safavids belongs to people of Turkey.

Hoshyar, I am sorry, I will not bother to answer you more than this. You are just drifting. Mongolians do not consider Tu-chueh Dynasty as foreigners or foreign originated guys.

You tell me I make Grousset rolling in his grave, you do not come with sources.

Infact Grousset fails on many issues. I can not claim if he is a great middle asian expert, he fails on many issues (Interestingly and especially about Seljuks, Tu-C'hueh and Xiong Nu). But he is a western historian and famous, I just made quotes.

It is true today Turks and Mongols are different. It is true Germans and Franks, English are different too. Trace their roots, they are all Germanic.

I made that classification because those three formed the greatest states in the Ancient Turkik world. Yes it is true greatest divisions are Hunnic, Tu-chueh and Hitay tribes. Uighurs, Avars, Khazars are all hunnic dude. Grousset can not write it. You should invest your life for it. Only journal papers write those...

Both Mongols and Turks claim to be descendant of the same people, like French and Germans are the sons of Carolienge. NOone again claims him as foreigner. But as time goes by people change. While, Germans securing thir traditions, French has changed.

Our conversation will solve nothing. Will not change the realities. Because everytime I see, you try to underestimate the Turks (probably because of our long time over Iran: Safavids, Timurids, Seljuks, Afsarids etc...).

Bye dude, let me leave this topic.



Edited by HulaguHan
Back to Top
Hushyar View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 16-Apr-2005
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 301
  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 00:11


I will not bother to answer you more than this

Oh please don't leave ...............
BTW It just shows your weakness, you just shut your eyes and ears and don't accept the facts, History is science and based on facts not stories of national glories or satisfying your nationalism sense, If you came here for fun , sorry you can go to AE tavern or Histroical amusement, In here only science is important and It may ruin your beautiful fictional world.
Leraning is not easy.So don't be coward.


Mongolians do not consider Tu-chueh Dynasty as foreigners or foreign originated guys.


Beacause Mongols after Turks entered Mongolia. Its like that Turks after Iranic Tribes entered Iran and Its clear that Azeries don't consider Sassanaids as foreigners.


Infact Grousset fails on many issues. I can not claim if he is a great middle asian expert, he fails on many issues (Interestingly and especially about Seljuks, Tu-C'hueh and Xiong Nu). But he is a western historian and famous, I just made quotes.


It is True Grousset is not considered as a reliable source nowadays,(Its too old) and I didn't want to defend him, But I meant that You didn't undrestand him properly, He never said such things before.(I mean that you misunderestood him, like now that you misundrestood me,I hink you read too fast and don't concentrate on writings).


It is true today Turks and Mongols are different. It is true Germans and Franks, English are different too. Trace their roots, they are all Germanic


Germans Franks and Englo -Saxons all belong to Germanic tribes.Germans Celts Ligorians Ionians and Akhaians,Indians,Iranic Tribes,Armenians,Thracians all belong to Indo_European family.
But you cn not merge mongols and Turks to the same family.


I made that classification because those three formed the greatest states in the Ancient Turkik world. Yes it is true greatest divisions are Hunnic, Tu-chueh and Hitay tribes. Uighurs, Avars, Khazars are all hunnic dude.


May you make a favour and read my previous post ,Oh No No just answer me this question.
Are Arab descendents of Othmans because they were ruled by Othman Family????!!!!!!


Both Mongols and Turks claim to be descendant of the same people


You are the only man in the history that made such a meaningless claim.

While, Germans securing thir traditions, French has changed.


1)French peoples are not Franks,Franks just came and conquered Ancient Gol and changed its name,But after a few generations they assimilated by original people of France and Latin remained the national language of France.
2)Comparing France  and German with turks and mongols is Wrong.Franks were a germanic tribe.And Latin is a sister language group to germanic language.
Mongols and Turks had similar culture , But they belonged to different ations.


I see, you try to underestimate the Turks

Why and When? because I say Mongols are different with Turks, It is considered as Underestiamtion?
Although I don't think Temuchin ( a Mongol) and Timur ( a Turk) had any value as a respectable humans to be considered as glory of a nation. I you admire them, It just show your ignorance.


pobably because of our long time over Iran: Safavids, Timurids, Seljuks, Afsarids etc

Safavids , Afshars , Qajars , Qara Qoyunlues , Sulghurians ,.... are Iranian and our ancsetors.(and they have no ralationship to Turky people or any other people, You can not steal other nations history)
Saljuqs actually more belongs to Iran than Turkey, why? because Saljuqs from Iran conquered modern turkey.
French and Britain are good examples.Franks were a german Tribe and modern English is a germanic language. French is a latin language.But Clovis and Charlmange belong to France not Britain.
Tughrol and Malikshah belong to Iran (only) and Alparsaln only made Anatolia from a greek state to a Turkic state.So he could be your ancsetor too.( We Iranian accept to share him with you and we are fair. Iran 51%-Turkey 49% ).
And Timur  No he was not Iranian , He was  from Central Asia (which was mainly Turkic at that time) and only devastated Iran and many other lands. It is considered an Iranian Glory to change descendants of such wild animal to human.
You are proud with Timur, just check what did he do with Bayazid I and his wife after victory.



Edited by Hushyar
Back to Top
Kenaney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 543
  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 13:33

"Safavids , Afshars , Qajars , Qara Qoyunlues , Sulghurians ,.... are Iranian and our ancsetors.(and they have no ralationship to Turky people or any other people, You can not steal other nations history)"

So who ever conquered Iran is Iranian and its youre history, we cant speak over them or we cant claim that they where Turks, is that the hole iranians point?

If nowadays USA conquerer Iran, then what would be? Do you gonna say they where iranian too because they lived in Iran and conquered Iran???!!!  Or you gonna say they where Amerikan officers, etc who conquered us....?--> the fact that you cant say all the time, does it realy hurts you deep in hart for just saying the facts?? 

Just think 3 times before you gonna say such a nonsens...

From youre point of vieuw belongs the all Roman, Greek monuments in Turkey to Turkish history and they are Turks from Greek origin?? Again from youre point of vieuw Greeks cannot speak about the glorys they had against Persia, because the places they fought are know in Turkey or we can share with them 51% to 49%....?

 Hiyar...

OUT OF LIMIT
Back to Top
Hushyar View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 16-Apr-2005
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 301
  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 15:12

Kenaney said:
So who ever conquered Iran is Iranian and its youre history, we cant speak over them or we cant claim that they where Turks, is that the hole iranians point?

1)Safavids , Afshars , Qajars , Qara Qoyunlues  ,.... didnt conquered iran as a foreigner Go and learn History plzzz,They all born in iran.
2)They  ,their fathers, their Grand fathers,their great grand fathers and their great great grand fathers and their great great great great grand fathersall lived in Iran, and interestingly all of their children also lived in Iran, so what does relate them to you? (may be because they spoke a language that from linguistically point of view has some relationship to what you are speaking in home come on boy)nobody In Iran can claim that he has no relationship with Them, but I have doubt any body in Turkey can claim that they had any relationship with them


If nowadays USA conquerer Iran, then what would be? Do you gonna say they where iranian too because they lived in Iran and conquered Iran???!!!  Or you gonna say they where Amerikan officers, etc who conquered us....?-->

I answered this before, reading carefully will solve half of the misunderstandings:

French and Britain are good examples. Franks were a German Tribe and modern English is a Germanic language. French is a Latin language. But Clovis and Charlemagne belong to France not Britain.


From youre point of vieuw belongs the all Roman, Greek monuments in Turkey to Turkish history and they are Turks from Greek origin

Better said in this form: Modern Turkey is real descendant of Byzanthian History and People of Modern Turkey are real descendant of Byzanthian Empire, If greeks deceived  you and stole your history, this does not mean that you must steal our history, Go and take back your ancestor's history from greeks. and Yes Byzanthian are your History. Troy is your History. Lydia is your History, Hittite Empire is your history. Mitherdat and Pontus empire is your History. You are sons of them not Tughrol Beyk,not Alparslan. Sons of Alparsalan all lived and died in Iran. Sons of Malikshah also all lived and died in Iran.
In Turkey SuleimanShah (brother of Alparsalan ) lived. So In Turkey you can find some traces (majority of your genes belong to original Anatolian people) of Soleymanshah, Mangujaqids , Daneshmandies, or Artuqs. The difference between Iran and Anatolia was that In Iran sons of Saljuq merged with Iranian culture, In Anatolia Sons of Saljuq heavily changed the culture of original people (may be because they introduced Islam)


Again from youre point of vieuw Greeks cannot speak about the glorys they had against Persia, because the places they fought are know in Turkey or we can share with them 51% to 49%....?

Those who defeated Iranian were Macedonians and they were not from Anatolia. But Seleucids as belongs to Greece as to Iran and Syria and Iraq .
And better example: Pergam civilization as belong to Greece as to Turkey. It is clear, You invite tourists to see your cultural heritage not foreigner cultural heritage.
And one more point:
If greeks came and told you that majority of your ancestors  were originally greek or Armenian you must  say that No, they were Anatolian and they spoke greek (because Hellenized because of 1000 year influence of Greek civilization) and then they freely changed their religion and culture and choose Turkish one because they simply thought that it is better.

Last quote:
I will erase my last paragraph in next two days and If you tell the greek members that I told this sentence to you , I will punish you (may be this time Ill find a claim over othmans)

Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 15:18
Originally posted by Kenaney

"Safavids , Afshars , Qajars , Qara Qoyunlues , Sulghurians ,.... are Iranian and our ancsetors.(and they have no ralationship to Turky people or any other people, You can not steal other nations history)"

So who ever conquered Iran is Iranian and its youre history, we cant speak over them or we cant claim that they where Turks, is that the hole iranians point?

If nowadays USA conquerer Iran, then what would be? Do you gonna say they where iranian too because they lived in Iran and conquered Iran???!!!  Or you gonna say they where Amerikan officers, etc who conquered us....?--> the fact that you cant say all the time, does it realy hurts you deep in hart for just saying the facts?? 

Just think 3 times before you gonna say such a nonsens...

From youre point of vieuw belongs the all Roman, Greek monuments in Turkey to Turkish history and they are Turks from Greek origin?? Again from youre point of vieuw Greeks cannot speak about the glorys they had against Persia, because the places they fought are know in Turkey or we can share with them 51% to 49%....?

 Hiyar...

Obviously you don't understand what he means.

He means they weren't Turkish and had nothing to do with the Turkish nation state or turkish nationalism. You will never have any part of Iran for a greater Turkey and you cannot use our history to justify any such end.

Infact as Hushyar pointed out, Ottomans killed and enslaved thousands of shi'ite Azaris, so the history isn't about many unfortunately separated Turks who long for a big get together again.

Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 15:35

what is greater Turkey?

I think we are already great. No need to be greater. Fighting with ghost?

Do you afraid from azeris? If I am not wrong you have no problem with them.

If greeks deceived  you and stole your history, this does not mean that you must steal our history?

Ih, take our history from Greeks

And please, They would not give troy back, but they will take some of ottomans

Noone said they are not Iranian, but they were,are also Turkic.

If they call themself Azeris or Turkmens, arent they are Turkic. So iranian culture have some Turkish ancestor and some Turkish part. This is not something we discuss.

I dont think any Turk will deny this.

My friend in reality noone care about Iranian land, You know we mostly prefered west

 

 

 

 

 

Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 15:56

What are you talking about?  Nonsense as usual. Nothing you said relates to my post except this:

Noone said they are not Iranian, but they were,are also Turkic.

No one said they weren't Turkic. Don't give me your strawman arguments and don't divert, otherwise you'll get no more responses from me.

Thank you.

 

Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 16:04

Zagros Purya

So my friend they are our brothers, If they are Turkic.

So They have relation with us too. But well They were not persian and I dont think they had much relation with them except conquering them and learning something from them.

It looks like realy comic. When you want to take Mevlana, you also try to take selcuks.

Interesting

So My friend, we have as much claim as(If not more) Persians and I am sure These Turks choose it better than you.So dont worry, If they dont want to join Azerbaijan, They would be no problem for you.

Why dont we talk reality, your problem is not Turkey but Azeris, and some of them is your people.

By the way, all I said is not realy related with your post. So be calm my friend.

 

 

 

Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 16:12

Mawlana was ethnically Iranic, Seljuqs were ethnically Turkic BUT they were an Iranian dynasty. 

Stop getting confused so easily.

 

Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 16:16

am I right? You have problem with Azerbaijan, and they have a lot of common point with Iranian azeris.

By the way, Maybe you dont know but, Anatolia was settled by Selcuk dynasty not ottomans.

 



Edited by Murtaza
Back to Top
Afghanan View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Durr e Durran

Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 16:42

While you guys fight over which dynasty was Iranian or Turkish, or whatever, do you think those people who lived at those times even cared about those things?

C'mon guys lighten up, those people and that time period is history and it belongs to all of you. 

 

The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 16:49

Afghanan

I have no problem If they say they were iranic because they were. And you are right that peoples didnt care what is their race.

I just dont like when someone say, you have no relation with them.

this does not mean that you must steal our history,

This is what they write and this is complately absurd.

Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 16:51

No you're wrong, I have never heard an Iranian Azaris dis Iran, infact, lol, they mostly call themselves Persian.  

This is pretty funny, one of my dad's political friends is Azari with a Kurdish wife (who wants to be Persian), one day I was arguing with his son and him that the Persian Empire was not the biggest empire the world has ever seen.

Oh and last year my cousin got married to a blond Azari from Tabriz - the mixing between Persians and Iranian Azaries is so much that if u insult Persians you insult iranian Azaries as they probably have a Persian relative and vice versa. nice try.

The most famous example of this inseparable union is Shah Mohammad Pahlavi, whose wife, Farah Diba is Azari.

Iranian Azaris have no desire to join Turkey or Rep Azer. - Hossein Rezazadeh is the best example of this.

Here is a good song a Persian song remixed in Iranian-Azari, infact i like the Azari version better:

http://www.dcs.napier.ac.uk/~04005492/file%20dir/music/DJ%20 Pasha%20-%20Azari%20Nazi%20Joon%20Remix.mp3

I have to say that Azari accent sounds pleasant to the ears, not like Turkish.

There is no problem with the Azaris of Iran, there is just problem with idiots from Turkey with computers it seems.

Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 17:04

Zagros Purya

So, why are you thinking Turkey is a problem for Iran or our pan-Turkist stupidy?

If I am not wrong, iran helped armenian because of Azerbaijan. I didnt say you have problem with Iranian Azeris, but you have realy problem with Azerbaijan.

there is a lot Turk married with kurd and We had some Kurdish Priminister. But lets accept we have some problem with them.

Didnt Iran used it at past? So maybe this is reason why iran afraid from Turkey? And trying to create a new history like, This Iranian Turks have no relation with Turkish Turks?

But you are wrong, we have not a campaign against Iran, we have other bussiness. So no need to afraid from Turkey.

But to tell selcuks were an iranian dynesty is just absurd.

 

 

 



Edited by Murtaza
Back to Top
bobcool View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 30-Jun-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote bobcool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2005 at 17:57

Our conversation will solve nothing. Will not change the realities. Because everytime I see, you try to underestimate the Turks (probably because of our long time over Iran: Safavids, Timurids, Seljuks, Afsarids etc...).

you are completely deluded!  Your people are not the same ones as the early Seljuks and Timurids.  They were mostly Mongoloid racially.   You are most likely Caucasian.  You have an identity problem.

I SUPREME
Back to Top
Hushyar View Drop Down
Consul
Consul


Joined: 16-Apr-2005
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 301
  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2005 at 03:27

Murtaza:
When you quote from me please make it clear, my personal view is different with Purya or other Iranian members, Soo make it clear to hear proper answer.


Ih, take our history from Greeks
And please, They would not give troy back, but they will take some of ottomans

I understand your condition is critical. Oh poor Turks! so every person passes  you ,picks up a part of your history and claims that Its His. Shame on Them!!! I think you need urgent help. Give us ottomans we will grab remainder for you.



So my friend they are our brothers, If they are Turkic.

Realy!!!! so every body speaks Turkish is your brother??!!! BTW I am learning Azeri and Turkish but Im not still very skilled in them. I think may be we can became cousin!!!


So They have relation with us too. But well They were not persian and I dont think they had much relation with them except conquering them and learning something from them.

Now ok we are in the main discussion:
Who is Persian? Who is Turk? Who is Kurd? Who is Spanish? At first we must define these terms. So you think in 1000 years ago there were some poor Persian speaking people  living in Iran (that spoke a Persian language like nowadays) and then some Blond Turks like (Istanbul people) came and conquered them. These Turks spoke modern Anatolian Turkish.(like you).they ruled Iran for 1000 years and Azeries are descendant of them. And those poor Persian are ancestors of nowadays Persians. of course every Turk believes that when we speak about Iran, It means Persian, and every other language in Iran is a Persian dialect, except Azeri which is Turkish dialect and Turcoman which is a dialect too and khalaj it is a dialect too and Its not important that except linguistic nobody could understand them khalaji is dialect because it must be, so it is how you see world. Very beautiful and simple but Im sorry there are some minor flaw in this picture that will ruin all of it.
Please read carefully and consider History is not reading an interesting nationalistic history book and then take deep breathes and to think flying over clouds and to say We were ruler of the world!!! how big we are!!! And then radio says EU postponed the Turkeys request for participation in EU because of Human Right abuse. Real world is bitter but we must live in it.
1000 years ago when saljuqs (which numbers of warriors were something between 15000, 25000 warriors ,they were half of the ghaznavid army size.)entered Iran and Anatolia, in southern cenral northeastern western and northern of Iran there were different languages .Modern Persian (Dari Persian) was prevalent in khorasan, northern of nowadays Afghanistan and Trnsxosania, Moqadasi said that in Sistan this language was spreading fast.(and they were not interchangeable with modern Persian) any way When Saljuqs conquered Iran and Anatolia and Iraq and Syria they spread Persian along with Turkish in all of these countries( Dont ask me why, but they did) for example you know that in Rumi slajuqid and Daneshmandian Courts Persian was official language and It was Karamanli state in 14th century that substituted Turkish instead of Persian as official court language. Go to your museums and check Historical letters and commands, poems ,
So spreading Persian and old Turkish to western Iran was simultaneous and both considered as foreign languages. Why Turkish was spreaded in some regions and why Persian in others , I dont know but I know that in 200 years ago condition was not like that and there was not such a regional classifications for these language.
So by these data you want to claim that 50-55 millions of people of Turkey and 18 millions of Azeri population in Iran and 7 million of republic of Azerbaijan and 1 to 1. million of northern Iraq and 2-3 million immigrants that live in Europe all and all are descendant of those 20000 wariors and their family???? Remainder of Iranian people are descendant of few old and clever khorasanian Vazirs that accompany saljuqs??!!!
Are you sure that your ancestors were not some fat and clever Anatolian peoples that spoke greek language in city and in Home spoke a forgotten Anatolian language , and then he by considering benefits of being muslim converted and married their children with other muslims and their subsequent generation all became turkified. Its not that poetic but it looks more real.
You have 2 parents 4 gand parents and maybe more than 1000 parents in your 10 genertation of your ancestors.(may be some redundant) they all lived between 200 o 300 years ago .Ok how many of them do you now?how many of them lived in Anatolia? Now  look at 600 years ago and then 900 years ago and then completely forgot racial purification . Another example is Qajar family they are known as Shazdeh (Shah zadeh) means prince . actually majority of them are rich and living in USA or Europe or Tehran or Isfahan. all of them are considered as Persian and actually majority of politicians of Pahalavi dynasty were from that family.
Nobody in Ian can claim that they have no relationship with saljuqs and no azeri could claim that he is descendant of saljuqs. We know many Persainized Azeri in Tehran.We knew many turkied Talish and Tat in Azerbaijan. In Bijar we have a Turkifed Kurdish tribe and Kurdified Turkish Tribe. At least one third of Tehran population may have some trace of azeri blood in their veins. In 15th century Tabriz main language was not Azeri.In the end of 16th cenury still all of names of  streets and places of Tabriz were Tati.
In Markai Isfahan Qazvin Kerman Fars province in 60 yearsa go there were many independent languages that all of them were assimilated in Persian. In zanjan from 400 years ago Azeri from a minority language became a prominent language and now its treatened by Persian language.
So If you are offended that your anestors are not oghuzes but Anatolians its your problems. Please dont export your problem to other countries .

It looks like realy comic. When you want to take Mevlana, you also try to take selcuks


If you are Turk , So Mowlavi is not yours, because he was not turk. If you are Anatolian so Saljuqs belongs to us not you. So choose one of them.( not both of them )



I just dont like when someone say, you have no relation with them.
this does not mean that you must steal our history,
This is what they write and this is complately absurd.

So this made you angry, well I am a good boy and didn't want to insult anybody but I just want to joke kanaeny because he was too angry, but any way I was right, may be I be one of their heirs ,who knows????!!!! But surely you are not , you may be belongs to Alexius family. Who knows?
And why It is Absured? Is it reasonable that we claim over byzanthain because Greeks are our brothers??!!!!Because Indo-Iranian Thracian and Greek language fell into same sub branch of family. This is the ridiculous.
 So If you are thinking  that you are brother to every Turkic speaking peoples , be carefull with Iranian because every Persian Kurd Lur Gilaki or another may be your nephew.

Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2005 at 08:17

Uh, you complately understand me wrong, Yes. You are right one of my ancestor can become Greeks, or even all of them. did this make me a less Turk?

When I call someone Turkic, This does not mean their father is Turkic. I dont care with much. But morely culture, and lets accept, langauge is one of the main specialty of culture.

I can speak with an azeris easily, when both of our using our main langauge. So no, If you learn Turkish, you will not become Turk. Because It is not your main langauge. And I am not sure, you can speak an azeris like me. So why do you think, you are more close them more than us?

Please read carefully and consider History is not reading an interesting nationalistic history book and then take deep breathes and to think flying over clouds and to say We were ruler of the world!!! how big we are!!! And then radio says EU postponed the Turkeys request for participation in EU because of Human Right abuse. Real world is bitter but we must live in it.

And by the way, these words are realy not  necassary. I know our issues with Human Right. But I am not sure If this is related with our topic.

Tell me ask you a question, what is different between an Azeris who live in Iran or Azerbaijan?

Because Azeris who live in Azerbaijan call us as their brothers. I dont think they call Persians like this?

And, I am not nationalist, to call some Turkic People as "Turk" wont count as nationalism, I think.

 

 



Edited by Murtaza
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2005 at 08:41

Realy!!!! so every body speaks Turkish is your brother??!!! BTW I am learning Azeri and Turkish but Im not still very skilled in them. I think may be we can became cousin!!!

Back to Top
erci View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1426
  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2005 at 22:14
Originally posted by Murtaza

And by the way, these words are realy not  necassary. I know our issues with Human Right. But I am not sure If this is related with our topic.



Don't you know when they left with nothing to prove they always bring this up?


Edited by erci
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.