Did Hercules/Herakles exist?

What about if (since) I don't have PDF reader?

I'd be interested in a copy of it too, PM or email (in profile).

I am a student of etymology of deity names so I am involved in researching this sort of thing tho I haven't yet got a definate cognates etymology for Hercules other than Grk/Lat/Etruscan.

I don't buy the Hera etymology. Herakles/Hercules may poss come from Erakal/Nergal whom he was actually later (?re-)identified with.

I think Tacitus (or Herodotus) mentions that Hercules and/or Odysseus visited the Germans and is identified with Sigurd?

I discovered a connection with Gilgamesh who some authors do connect with Hercules (and both/either with Nimrod and/or Ningirsu//Ninurta as said above): the 12 pillars of Hercules are the same as the 120 poles of Gilgamesh, plus cp the 12 labours H with the 12 tablets of epic G with the 12 books/volumes of Homer (and Aeneid) which also means Gilgamesh is also identifiable with Odysseus.

Hercules has also been identified with Iranian Rustem and Indian [Krishna? or Indra? (lost notes/source)].

What you said about reversing Melkart ("king" or "messenger/angel" + "     ") I don't think is very convincing, but the m- could be a prefix and -t i often a suffix; tho (pillars of) Hercules & (pillars of) Melkart are indeed said to be snonmous.

Re Hercules and Ogma: In Egyptian Hercules was identified in nature not name with G-m or S-m (and/or Hershef if I remember correctly?)

Gadeira may be Agadir/El Khadir as well as/instead of Gades/Ceuta.

           Now I cant take your Hera to be a greek godess as it followed with the word probable local...I cant, you give me source to that about the cult of Hera...
            And a bit more information, I would like to know if any of the speakers of their languages in antiquity claimed that their language is the first or mother language or as claiming that all languages have been derived from their language or as their langugae is the first language.....
           The notion that Sanskrit is the language of the GODS, and first language is existant fromtimes imemorial...
           If in those ancient times no other have claimed that their language as the oldest, then the calim by the Indians that some form of Sanskrit has to be the oldest as the roots of words in most of the languages are in Sanskrit and not in latin or Greek or armaic or Persian...

           I am not telling that he is a Hindu Export.....but I am only drawing the similarities of words. and as u mentioned cults...I would like to let u know in ancient India their were primarily 2 cults the cult of HARI and HARA.
          In India cults meant not the usual menaing that we asscociate in modern times.. They are 2 streams of beleifs existed side by side without any quarrel.
         How close is hera and hari, and their hasnt been much research about the ancient Indic and greek interaction.
        

            In India there is a word "Harikulesh" which translates to "of the clan  HARI"("hari is a god in India). Lord Sri Krishna was often refered to in our epics a "HariKulesh"....
           

Thanks, Phallanx. Sadly, I link but the PDF document (so it seems to be) doesn't download - no idea why. Anyhow, don't worry, I have some good stuff on Iberian prehistory. 

Originally posted by rider ... as Iberian culture as far as I know lived on Balearic islands, so the Hespertodids/Palma??

There were two main Iberian (in the geographical sense of the word) civilizations in the early Bronze Age (pan-European chronology, it's surely Late Bronze in the Aegean). None of them was literarian but they built fortified cities/towns, that's why they call them civilizations.

� The culture of El Argar in SE Spain (Almer�a, Murcia) from 1800 to 1300 BCE. They had Bronze and seemingly it was a centralized state. The second phase (El Argar B), starting c. 1500 BCE, had this curious Aegean characteristic: they started burying their deceased in pythoi.
    Associated with it, are the proto-Iberians (ethnically speaking now) of the Levante Bronze, also with fortified towns but of much smaller size, in Alicante and Valencia mostly.
    Another contemporary Bronze area is that of Southern Portugal but though intersting, it's quite obscure and dificult to describe. The fortified towns of the earlier Chalcolithic period had vanished and not a single town is found: only burials of two types with some bronze.

� The other Iberian civilization of that period is Vila Nova de Sao Pedro (VNSP) around today's Lisbon. It existed since 2600 BCE (ending also around 1300) with many fortified towns, of which the largest is Zambujal. They never used Bronze (so I suspect rivalry with El Argar) but they were intensely connected to the Atlantic region, with Megalithic culture all the time (much before its very existence as civilization) and strong contacts with the Beaker People phenomenon (that we call Bell-shaped Beaker, as the people thing is not likely at all). In fact for two centuries, between 2100 and 1900 BCE, VNSP was the very center of the Beaker phenomenon (trade?!).

Near 1300, coincident with the irruption of the Urn Field culture peoples in NE Iberia (making incursions to other regions too, as isolated tombs denote), both civilizations disapear, leaving only less organized remnants.

Forget about the Balearic Islands: their Megalithic taulas are impressive but there are no remains of civilization. Instead at least one glass bead, maybe from Egypt, has been found inside Levante Bronze contexts.

To me, it seems quite clear that El Argar and other Iberians had rather intense contacts with Crete or Mycenes, at least since 1500. Though the lack of traded objects is a true puzzle.

As with the Phoenicians founding their first offshore colony precisely in Iberia (Gadir), the reason behind those possible transmediterranean relations is quite clear: Iberia had plenty of mineral resources, including scarce tin, organized civilizations to trade with and it was the gate of the Atlantic.

On wether Herakles or some other Greek was actually there, we can only speculate... but I like to do it.
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And here you have a map of the Iberian peninsula at that time:




Edited by Maju

Whilst almost all Roman names were adopted from Etruscan, was Herakles in there aswell.. i'm  going not too well now in Etruscan mythology..

Whilst seeing the map, I believe that many islands/clearings could be assosiated with Hercules' deeds.. as Iberian culture as far as I know lived on Balearic islands, so the Hespertodids/Palma??

Why did nobody mentioned Celtic Cwlluch (whose myth is almost identical to that of one of the Heraklean jobs) nor Goliath, the Philistine hero/leader also of gigantic proportions and strength. All these peoples are somehow connected through the Urn Fields culture (assuming that Herakles is actually a Dorian figure, as the myth says). Not any excessive imagination is necessary to associate Cwlluch, [Hera]Kleos, Goliath and even the Greek term colossus in a single root.

I have the funny hypothesis that such a name means (*kolos) something like Khan for the Mongols: the big boss.

I am also curious about the fact that ancient Iberian culture of El Argar, in its B phase (1500-1300 BCE) has clear Mycenean (or maybe Cretan)  influences, burying their dead in pythoi. I wonder if after all, those Heraklean jobs that talk about far western places (fight against Geriones and stealing of the apples/rams of the Hesperides) aren't in fact somehow more real than we usually dare to admit.