Question on the Magyars

i came across it somewhere. im not too sure where, but it looks like it was from a scene in a movie. maybe Conan, not sure. it is pretty cool!

Originally posted by Midas Magyars are coming from Huns... And Turks too... Yes they are not turkic; but difference between Magyars and Turks is same as Turks and Mongolians.

Not quite. Turk and Mogolians (and Japanese, for instance) are all supposed to be Altaic (speakers of laguages of the Altaic family). Magyars instead speak an Uralic tongue (like Finnish, Estonians, Lapps and Samoyedans). Still Uralic and Altaic families, along with Indoeuropean and maybe other tongues, might well form a superfamily that would denote a common origin somewhere in the far (very far) past. But these groupings are very controversial (see Nostratic, Ural-Altaic, Uralic and Altaic linguistic articles in Wikipedia).

On the other hand, the name Hungarians does seem to come from the Huns but it is a misnomer based in the fact that Magyars occupied the same core region as ancient Huns and were as fierce and barbaric as these if not more. The actual descendants of the Huns were the Bulgarians, later assimilated by slavic influence.

Some claim that Hungarians (Magyars) are actually descendant of an obscure Caucasic tribe called Onogurians (hence their name) but this is just a very controversial and quite unproven hypothesis.

Originally posted by minchickie "The actual descendants of the Huns were the Bulgarians, later assimilated by slavic influence." As a Hungarian myself i would say its pretty speculative whether we ALL were mixed in. Hungary isnt exactly a small country and there are many villages all over that were untouched throughout the years. The people tend to look different all around. (forget Budapest where it is all mixed) I have relatives that have asian characteristics with black hair and slanted eyes yet they are magyar!

I've been reading some things about Bulgarians in the meantime and I must correct my sentence: change actual by likely, please.

Uralic peoples should be rather Asian-looking in origing, anyhow. Think about Samoyedes, who are also Uralic. Finns (and also Lapps), as Hungarians, have mixed too much with other peoples to be easily recognizable as Asian. Also, before Magyars, Avars and Huns dwelled in the Danubian plain and both peoples seem to have come from Asia, maybe helping in some extent to those Asian features you mention.

Originally posted by minchickie Hungary isnt exactly a small country and there are many villages all over that were untouched throughout the years.

How many years? The Hungarians arrived in Hungary were yet a different kind of people. Here the ancient Hungarians mixed with the locals. I hardly beleive that there are any villages which remained untouched through more than 1000 years.

Originally posted by Cyprus I am from Czech republic and that is why I visited Magyar many times - and as most of you said Magyars are mixed with many ethnic groups - but each of you forget to mention Slavs - because when Magyars came to Panonia this was inhabited by Slavs and was part of Great Moravian empire(with capital "city" only about 3 kilometers far from my home Also their languague(in spite of the fact that it is ugro-finic)is greatly influenced by Slavonic languagues - excpecialy terms from agriculture came to their languague from Slavonic ones. But because Hungarians don�t want to hear that they are more Slavs than Ugro-finic people - completly no one knows this. It is the same problem as in Bulgaria - former Bulgarians were nomads ver similar to magyars - but they mixed with seven slavonic tribes and formed Bulgarian nation which is counted as Slavonic nation - the only differences is that try to stay separately from their slavs serfs.

Well this is a real clouded part of history and the exact extension of Greater Moravia is disputed. Slavs lived in the latter territory of Hungary, but the population was low and sparse. Not just slavs, but other people also lived there. (avars etc.) The hungarian languaged received many slav words, but not agriculturals ones. The majority of these terms are turkic. Generally church, and administrative terms received from the slavs. (circa 5 %)

gerik:

I think Raider told about church terms after meeting with Christianity. But quite Turkish word survived the Christianity, too.

Originally posted by Cyprus I am from Czech republic and that is why I visited Magyar many times - and as most of you said Magyars are mixed with many ethnic groups - but each of you forget to mention Slavs - because when Magyars came to Panonia this was inhabited by Slavs and was part of Great Moravian empire(with capital "city" only about 3 kilometers far from my home Also their languague(in spite of the fact that it is ugro-finic)is greatly influenced by Slavonic languagues - excpecialy terms from agriculture came to their languague from Slavonic ones. But because Hungarians don�t want to hear that they are more Slavs than Ugro-finic people - completly no one knows this. It is the same problem as in Bulgaria - former Bulgarians were nomads ver similar to magyars - but they mixed with seven slavonic tribes and formed Bulgarian nation which is counted as Slavonic nation - the only differences is that try to stay separately from their slavs serfs.

Didnt you confuse bulgaria with Hungary? Bulgars where from origin Turkic (remember Volga Bulgars, Chuvash, karachay Turks), but today they mixed, are slavinized or better to say assimilated cultural and genetical (didnt find any words to describe) by slavs   

Originally posted by Avelina Neat paper (related to subject) connecting some ancient dots. Written awhile back. Like to find more recent info though.  http://www.acronet.net/~magyar/english/1997-3/GRAIL.htm

thanks for the page

anyway a paragraf of that page that interested me damn ALOT!

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Geoffrey Ashe mentions that the Celts have no mythology in which a god by the name of Arthur can be found.>>

In Magyar traditions the name Artur leads us to our �st�r�k nation, the Etruscans, and the prehistory of the Turanian peoples. The second syllable of this name �tur� means bull and a maleness. This word describes our beautiful Sun�s daily journey and return just as much it describes the circling flight of the falcon, which the T�r�k group called Turul-bird. In this context Arthur�s name means Bull Man, Sun man, whose role is linked inseparably with his return. >>

Britain�s ancient history begins, as does the Magyar with Fairy traditions which are also an inseparable part of the Arthurian legends. It is interesting to note, that the Mythology of the British Isles preserved a memory, according to which these fairies spoke in the language of the Troyans. As Arthur�s name is connected with the Magyar t�r, so is the name of Troy. As long as the name of Arthur cannot be tied to any of the Celtic god names, there is ample proof that this name was part once of Magyar Mythology, celebrated today in a festival of the so called �Turka-j�r�s�, a part of the Winter Solstice celebration. Arthur, or better Artur was once the personification of the Son just as much as was the Magyar Mikl�s Toldi. In later Germanic mythologies we find Tor, William Tell with the same role and names. The feminine of this word is �t�r," which means a well defined, material space, and also a closed circle as does the related English word: turn. The Etruscan goddess Turan was personification of the round Earth and their country; the later Latin word terra was derived from here.>>

what me interest about that paragrafe is that the "Tur" word is many times used, the word Turan that i tought it whas from Persian origin is used as a God by Etruscians. Also this;

 "there is ample proof that this name was part once of Magyar Mythology, celebrated today in a festival of the so called �Turka-j�r�s�, a part of the Winter Solstice celebration"

Also the name Etruskians in Magyar language is called as �st�r�k its little bit similat to later Turkish empire G�k T�r�k, K�k T�r�k. Also if you say �zt�r�k in Turkish, it has a meaning btw �zt�rk is Turk from the beginning (or something similar to that).

Originally posted by Raider   This whole thing seems to be nonsense. �st�r�k = ancient turk. �smagyar= ancient hungarian These are composite words. I do not think that they related to G�k T�r�k.

i only noted a similarity, you dont need to get angry on that.

Ok so �st�r�k is ancient Turk? and �st�r�k is etrusc in magyar wich means ancient Turk?