Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Question on the Magyars

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
Author
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Question on the Magyars
    Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 14:59

Originally posted by Kenaney

Ive read on a Turkish newspaper that the Magyar historicals did research of their ottoman history and they found that Ottoman empire gave more to Hungary then they toke from taxes etc. Ottoman empire whas told like it is in Balkan countrys btw evil, armys of monsters etc etc. Now they know the truth...

Of course they're going to say that: it's a Turkish newspaper. I think you'd better accept the fact that not a single one of the Christian European countries which were occupied by the Ottomans is going to say that the occupation of their country was a good thing. Ever. Give it a rest, please! It really seems like all the posts that have even a marginal connection to the Turks (real or imaginary) eventually turn into an argument between the Turks and someone else, be they Greeks or other Europeans. Is that really necessary?

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
minchickie View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2005
Location: Hungary
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 241
  Quote minchickie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 18:47

Originally posted by vulkan02

it seems you have some Turkic features... probably the eyes i would say... if thats really your pic 

Yes that is me. my point is magyars all look different. we are NOT ALL mixed with german and slav. That just isnt true!  All Turks look different too. Some look more Arabic and some look European. If anything because of the Ottoman rule we probably are mixed in alot more with Turks now than had we been once apart of the same Asiatic tribes!

Back to Top
Raider View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jun-2005
Location: Hungary
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 08:09
Originally posted by Kenaney

Ive read on a Turkish newspaper that the Magyar historicals did research of their ottoman history and they found that Ottoman empire gave more to Hungary then they toke from taxes etc. Ottoman empire whas told like it is in Balkan countrys btw evil, armys of monsters etc etc. Now they know the truth...
That's right. There was an enormous defficit in occupied Hungary because of the nearly constant warfare and more and more poor population. The peasants had to pay tax to the Ottomans, tax to their  lords, and tax to the raiders and mercenaries on both side. The Hungarian lords  were able to collect the taxes even though they were far. The Hungarian Parliament graciously accept that the occupied territories could pay only the half of the normal taxes. This occupation was definitively not cost-effective.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 08:44

Some look more Arabic

Well, that is the poor, ignorant European term. They think all people who are related with Islamic world are Arabs. They ask us if we still speak Arabic and travel with camels. Some of them even dont know what Turkey means (except that bird)...

The thing is, all people with dark skins and middle easter features arent Arabs or Arab looking. That is a local genotype or something like that. Middle Easters have such features, including Persians, Kurds, Assyrians, Turks, even Greeks. Some Turks look more middle Eastern and some more European because of some mixing with locals (not Arabs, Iranians, Greeks etc., they werent the locals). But just to inform you, we have nothing to do with Arabs except our religion and common past.

Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 09:55

And except Hatay, and except Sirt, and except some  arabs who live in other Turkish city. Oguzoglu,  why do you think Turks have  nothing related with arabs?

Where this Turks live? In the middle of minor  asia?

Do you realy think, our borders with Iraq and  Syria have nothing related  with arabs?

why do you think we have no relation with greeks or Armenians?Or Kurds?(Arent  this  guys iranic?)

Why do you think,  It is only Locals who converted Islam?

Because before Turkey, There is not Turks, or Greeks. But Muslims and christians. 

 

 

 

Back to Top
Kenaney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 543
  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 13:03
Originally posted by Decebal

Of course they're going to say that: it's a Turkish newspaper. I think you'd better accept the fact that not a single one of the Christian European countries which were occupied by the Ottomans is going to say that the occupation of their country was a good thing. Ever. Give it a rest, please! It really seems like all the posts that have even a marginal connection to the Turks (real or imaginary) eventually turn into an argument between the Turks and someone else, be they Greeks or other Europeans. Is that really necessary?

pfffffff, when you people stop being so offensive? It whas a newspaper article with hungarian sources!!! Damn man i know what im talking about!

OUT OF LIMIT
Back to Top
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 13:10
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

Some look more Arabic

Well, that is the poor, ignorant European term. They think all people who are related with Islamic world are Arabs. They ask us if we still speak Arabic and travel with camels. Some of them even dont know what Turkey means (except that bird)...

The thing is, all people with dark skins and middle easter features arent Arabs or Arab looking. That is a local genotype or something like that. Middle Easters have such features, including Persians, Kurds, Assyrians, Turks, even Greeks. Some Turks look more middle Eastern and some more European because of some mixing with locals (not Arabs, Iranians, Greeks etc., they werent the locals). But just to inform you, we have nothing to do with Arabs except our religion and common past.

Man, what is your problem? You get offended so quickly because of someone saying that some Turks resemble Arabs. Can you tell apart a Spanish from a Portuguese? A Romanian from a Hungarian? A Finn from an Estonian? A Russian from a Ukrainian? Probably not. Every single people has different characteristics: there isn't one "typical" Spanish or "typical" Russian. Yet people may say that someone looks Russian or Spanish and nobody will get offended.

Do all the Turks know a lot about the "poor ignorant" Europeans? You condemn us for not knowing things about your culture, yet most of you don't know enough about ours and still make judgements upon us. Quite a double-standard, don't you think?

 

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 13:14

Kenaney, any newspaper in a country is probably going to give a certain story a spin which favors that country. Regardless of the sources.

You shoud probably note that I didn't say that the Ottoman occupation was a good or a bad thing, only that you're not going to find a European country who will admit that it was a good thing. If it had been a French or an English occupation, they still wouldn't have admitted that it was agood thing: it's a foreign occupation and that's it.

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
Kenaney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 543
  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 13:35
Originally posted by Decebal

Kenaney, any newspaper in a country is probably going to give a certain story a spin which favors that country. Regardless of the sources.

You shoud probably note that I didn't say that the Ottoman occupation was a good or a bad thing, only that you're not going to find a European country who will admit that it was a good thing. If it had been a French or an English occupation, they still wouldn't have admitted that it was agood thing: it's a foreign occupation and that's it.

Actually i dont care what anyone else says, i care what the local people of the country that lvied under my occupation says. They choosed a Turkish as their king, lived not under heavy taxes, some of them moved to Turkey (Antalya, Macar ky) etc etc... And Finaly the research of their own proffesors of an university in Budapest prooved that Ottoman empire wasnt evil at all...

OUT OF LIMIT
Back to Top
Raider View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jun-2005
Location: Hungary
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 03:31

Kenaney:

Above I have already written that It is true. The ottomans spent more to Hungary than the revenue of the province. But they spent to millitary, and defense.

Back to Top
Raider View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jun-2005
Location: Hungary
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 05:43

 

The age of ottoman occupation as Hungarian historians see:

http://www.mek.oszk.hu/01900/01911/html/

There are some mistranslation in the text (archduke not chief prince, prince not principal etc.), but I think it is understandable.



Edited by Raider
Back to Top
Kenaney View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 543
  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 12:47
Originally posted by Raider

Kenaney:

Above I have already written that It is true. The ottomans spent more to Hungary than the revenue of the province. But they spent to millitary, and defense.

Not only military, they also did build some great hamams, palace (now its in Romania), many mosk, etc.

OUT OF LIMIT
Back to Top
Raider View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 06-Jun-2005
Location: Hungary
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jul-2005 at 04:36
Originally posted by Kenaney

Originally posted by Raider

Kenaney:

Above I have already written that It is true. The ottomans spent more to Hungary than the revenue of the province. But they spent to millitary, and defense.

Not only military, they also did build some great hamams, palace (now its in Romania), many mosk, etc.

I think mosques and palaces were not built for the local population.

By the way territories you speak about were parts of the principality of Transylvania a vassal state, so it was not occupied by ottoman forces.

Back to Top
minchickie View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2005
Location: Hungary
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 241
  Quote minchickie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 10:04

"I think mosques and palaces were not built for the local population. "

I never thought about that. were they?

Back to Top
Turkic10 View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 01-Jul-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
  Quote Turkic10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 11:49
Gad! As a result of all the various conquering groups from Europe, the Middle East and Asia we're all of mixed blood. Maybe several times over. The latest mix in my case is Romanian (lots of mixing there!) and Irish (the Celts and Vikings). The mind boggles!

Edited by Turkic10
Admonish your friends privately, praise them publicly.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 12:19

Murtaza,

I didnt say we arent any related with Arabs, I meant ethnicity by that, and I mentioned our common past and religion. Why do you try to show me as one of the anti Semites or something? I have no problems with Arabs or any other specific nation.

Man, what is your problem? You get offended so quickly because of someone saying that some Turks resemble Arabs

Com'on, I wasnt offended. I meant ethnically, you know what I meant. Of course we have lots of things in common with them. I dont deny it, and I dont need to.

Do all the Turks know a lot about the "poor ignorant" Europeans

I didnt mean Europeans were so, I meant that term, generalization of "Muslim" was a poor term, used by some ignorant people.

Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 02:31

no, I dont think you are anti semites, If I showed you something like this I am sorry, but we have some relation with arabs too and I mean ethnicity.

I am sure, I have no arab blood in my vein or you have no arab blood, but Turks from south east of Turkey, may have some arabs blood.

In fact, Arabs are still living there.

 

 



Edited by Murtaza
Back to Top
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 10:45

Originally posted by Turkic10

Gad! As a result of all the various conquering groups from Europe, the Middle East and Asia we're all of mixed blood. Maybe several times over. The latest mix in my case is Romanian (lots of mixing there!) and Irish (the Celts and Vikings). The mind boggles!

You have Romanian blood as well? I'm "pure-bred" Romanian: whatever that means... I've never had someone guess what background I have. I've had people guessing anything from Finnish to Polish to Italian to French. Romanians are probably one of the most mixed nations in the world.

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 10:46
Say minchickie, where did you get that picture from? Is it from a movie? It looks awesome...
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 10:55
Say minchickie, where did you get that picture from your signature from? Is it from a movie? It looks awesome...
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.