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Countries contributions to European civilisation

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  Quote Thracian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Countries contributions to European civilisation
    Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 01:12

"the biggest contribution is from the islamic world from science to technology."

 

wat about wat europe did in the past 500 years

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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 01:44
Originally posted by Thracian

"the biggest contribution is from the islamic world from science to technology."

 

wat about wat europe did in the past 500 years



well actually the last three hundred years and many of the theories that have been acredited to european scholars inthe enlightenment hd been perfected by islamic schoalrs centuries earlier.  furthermore, if it was not for the contribution of the islamic world up to that point the last three hundred years would not have been possibe.  theres a origin to the point B and thats A, the islamic world contrbuted more to western civliziation than rome and greece, greece was overemphazised because they hostile to the islamic world.
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 01:46
Originally posted by strategos

"reason"? I'm sure many civilizations had reason. DIdnt the Egyptians or the Carthaginians perfect glass windows? I mean, you don't think other civilizations had windows? Unless you mean special windows..


look thru the links
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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 02:07
Originally posted by ill_teknique

Originally posted by Thracian

"the biggest contribution is from the islamic world from science to technology."

 

wat about wat europe did in the past 500 years



 theres a origin to the point B and thats A, the islamic world contrbuted more to western civliziation than rome and greece, greece was overemphazised because they hostile to the islamic world.

Islamic world contributed more than Greece and Rome? Most of all they contributed was just copies of works that were from Greeks and Romans..

http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 05:14
The world of the east, as it existed quite earlier than Greece or Rome, and having developed glorious civilisations, which are well known and need not be named here, has contributed enormously to the world knowledge, science and thinking. These contributions cannot be attributed to or identified with the islamic world, because it is a very recent establishment. Undoubtedly there is contribution by the islamic world but let's not exaggerate.
I personally have the utmost respect for the islamic populace on earth and I have absolutely no interest in diminuting their undoubtedly major influence to either the social structure or phinlosophical orientation of large regions of the world.

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 09:14

Originally posted by ill_teknique

Greece was overemphazised because they hostile to the islamic world.

Modern Greece is hardly overemphasised. And how could ancient Greece, which is the culture that gets the credit, possibly have been hostile to Islam, which didn't exist?

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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 14:24
Nicely put.
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 14:35
Originally posted by ill_teknique


well actually the last three hundred years and many of the theories that have been acredited to european scholars inthe enlightenment hd been perfected by islamic schoalrs centuries earlier.  furthermore, if it was not for the contribution of the islamic world up to that point the last three hundred years would not have been possibe.  theres a origin to the point B and thats A, the islamic world contrbuted more to western civliziation than rome and greece, greece was overemphazised because they hostile to the islamic world.


While it is true that the Arabs had achieved and perfected the 'enlightment' you mention centuries earlier than the European scholars achieved Renaissance, you seem to miss one very important fact.
The Arabs knowledge was based on Hellinic texts and it is actually thanks to the Arabic translations of the Hellinic texts, that the Europeans managed to obtain this knowledge.

It would be interesting if you'd explained :
"greece was overemphazised because they hostile to the islamic world."



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To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 20:04
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by ill_teknique

Greece was overemphazised because they hostile to the islamic world.

Modern Greece is hardly overemphasised. And how could ancient Greece, which is the culture that gets the credit, possibly have been hostile to Islam, which didn't exist?



the west was hostile to the islamic world therefore they were overemphasizing the contributions of rome and greece.  most scholars agree and if you did reserach you would realize this.  this is the problem in the west that the schools teach this nonsense still and it is only in the last ten years that it has been changing and the west is beginning to look back into history to find the real events.
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 20:17
you people apparently dont do research a lot of things that are traditonally acredited to greece in the west were discovered by the islamic world. for example trigonometry was a mere theory in greece they were not abgle to actualy put it in practice while islamic scholars were able to long before than western ones.  furthermore, algebra is a invention of the islamic world, as is the introduction of arabic numerals that had been adopted from india.  before these were introduced in the west, people were calculating with letters which made any large calculations virtually imposiblee.

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/Introl1.html

Western writers have often used the word Arabs or Muhammadans for Muslims and Arabic civilization for Islamic Civilization. In other instances, the words Saracen(ic) and Moor(ish) are also used for Muslims (Arabs and non-Arabs) from various parts of Europe, Africa, Arabia and Asia. According to a tradition of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) anyone whose primary language is Arabic is an Arab despite his ethnic origin, place of birth, or national origin. Arabic was the medium of communication throughout the Muslim world until a couple of centuries ago, regardless of the type of activity whether religious, social or scientific. During 800-1500 C.E. essentially all scientific works were written in Arabic. It is only after colonization of Muslim lands that this practice became less prevalent and in many instances was eliminated.

George Sarton's Tribute to Muslim Scientists in the "Introduction to the History of Science," I

"It will suffice here to evoke a few glorious names without contemporary equivalents in the West: Jabir ibn Haiyan, al-Kindi, al-Khwarizmi, al-Fargani, al-Razi, Thabit ibn Qurra, al-Battani, Hunain ibn Ishaq, al-Farabi, Ibrahim ibn Sinan, al-Masudi, al-Tabari, Abul Wafa, 'Ali ibn Abbas, Abul Qasim, Ibn al-Jazzar, al-Biruni, Ibn Sina, Ibn Yunus, al-Kashi, Ibn al-Haitham, 'Ali Ibn 'Isa al-Ghazali, al-zarqab, Omar Khayyam. A magnificent array of names which it would not be difficult to extend. If anyone tells you that the Middle Ages were scientifically sterile, just quote these men to him, all of whom flourished within a short period, 750 to 1100 A.D."

John William Draper in the "Intellectual Development of Europe"

"I have to deplore the systematic manner in which the literature of Europe has continued to put out of sight our obligations to the Muhammadans. Surely they cannot be much longer hidden. Injustice founded on religious rancour and national conceit cannot be perpetuated forever. The Arab has left his intellectual impress on Europe. He has indelibly written it on the heavens as any one may see who reads the names of the stars on a common celestial globe."

Robert Briffault in the "Making of Humanity"

"It was under the influence of the arabs and Moorish revival of culture and not in the 15th century, that a real renaissance took place. Spain, not Italy, was the cradle of the rebirth of Europe. After steadily sinking lower and lower into barbarism, it had reached the darkest depths of ignorance and degradation when cities of the Saracenic world, Baghdad, Cairo, Cordova, and Toledo, were growing centers of civilization and intellectual activity. It was there that the new life arose which was to grow into new phase of human evolution. From the time when the influence of their culture made itself felt, began the stirring of new life.

"It was under their successors at Oxford School (that is, successors to the Muslims of Spain) that Roger Bacon learned Arabic and Arabic Sciences. Neither Roger Bacon nor later namesake has any title to be credited with having introduced the experimental method. Roger Bacon was no more than one of apostles of Muslim Science and Method to Christian Europe; and he never wearied of declaring that knowledge of Arabic and Arabic Sciences was for his contemporaries the only way to true knowledge. Discussion as to who was the originator of the experimental method....are part of the colossal misinterpretation of the origins of European civilization. The experimental method of Arabs was by Bacon's time widespread and eagerly cultivated throughout Europe.

"Science is the most momentous contribution of Arab civilization to the modern world; but its fruits were slow in ripening. Not until long after Moorish culture had sunk back into darkness did the giant, which it had given birth to, rise in his might. It was not science only which brought Europe back to life. Other and manifold influence from the civilization of Islam communicated its first glow to European Life.

"For Although there is not a single aspect of European growth in which the decisive influence of Islamic Culture is not traceable, nowhere is it so clear and momentous as in the genesis of that power which constitutes the permanent distinctive force of the modern world, and the supreme source of its victory, natural science and the scientific spirit.

"The debt of our science to that of the Arabs does not consist in startling discoveries or revolutionary theories, science owes a great deal more to Arab culture, it owes its existence. The Astronomy and Mathematics of the Greeks were a foreign importation never thoroughly acclimatized in Greek culture. The Greeks systematized, generalized and theorized, but the patient ways of investigation, the accumulation of positive knowledge, the minute method of science, detailed and prolonged observation and experimental inquiry were altogether alien to the Greek temperament. Only in Hellenistic Alexandria was any approach to scientific work conducted in the ancient classical world. What we call science arose in Europe as a result of new spirit of enquiry, of new methods of experiment, observation, measurement, of the development of mathematics, in a form unknown to the Greeks. That spirit and those methods were introduced into the European world by the Arabs.

"It is highly probable that but for the Arabs, modern European civilization would never have arisen at all; it is absolutely certain that but for them, it would not have assumed that character which has enabled it to transcend all previous phases of evolution."

Arnold and Guillaume in "Lagacy of Islam" on Islamic science and medicine

"Looking back we may say that Islamic medicine and science reflected the light of the Hellenic sun, when its day had fled, and that they shone like a moon, illuminating the darkest night of the European middle Ages; that some bright stars lent their own light, and that moon and stars alike faded at the dawn of a new day - the Renaissance. Since they had their share in the direction and introduction of that great movement, it may reasonably be claimed that they are with us yet."

George Sarton in the "Introduction to the History of Science"

"During the reign of Caliph Al-Mamun (813-33 A.D.), the new learning reached its climax. The monarch created in Baghdad a regular school for translation. It was equipped with a library, one of the translators there was Hunayn Ibn Ishaq (809-77) a particularly gifted philosopher and physician of wide erudition, the dominating figure of this century of translators. We know from his own recently published Memoir that he translated practically the whole immense corpus of Galenic writings."

"Besides the translation of Greek works and their extracts, the translators made manuals of which one form, that of the 'pandects,' is typical of the period of Arabic learning. These are recapitulations of the whole medicine, discussing the affections of the body, systematically beginning at the head and working down to the feet."

"The Muslim ideal was, it goes without saying, not visual beauty but God in His plentitude; that is God with all his manifestations, the stars and the heavens, the earth and all nature. The Muslim ideal is thus infinite. But in dealing with the infinite as conceived by the Muslims, we cannot limit ourselves to the space alone, but must equally consider time.

"The first mathematical step from the Greek conception of a static universe to the Islamic one of a dynamic universe was made by Al-Khwarizmi (780-850), the founder of modern Algebra. He enhanced the purely arithmetical character of numbers as finite magnitudes by demonstrating their possibilities as elements of infinite manipulations and investigations of properties and relations.

"In Greek mathematics, the numbers could expand only by the laborious process of addition and multiplication. Khwarizmi's algebraic symbols for numbers contain within themselves the potentialities of the infinite. So we might say that the advance from arithmetic to algebra implies a step from being to 'becoming' from the Greek universe to the living universe of Islam. The importance of Khwarizmi's algebra was recognized, in the twelfth century, by the West, - when Girard of Cremona translated his theses into Latin. Until the sixteenth century this version was used in European universities as the principal mathematical text book. But Khwarizmi's influence reached far beyond the universities. We find it reflected in the mathematical works of Leonardo Fibinacci of Pissa, Master Jacob of Florence, and even of Leonardo da Vinci."

"Through their medical investigations they not merely widened the horizons of medicine, but enlarged humanistic concepts generally. And once again they brought this about because of their over riding spiritual convictions. Thus it can hardly have been accidental that those researches should have led them that were inevitably beyond the reach of Greek masters. If it is regarded as symbolic that the most spectacular achievement of the mid-twentieth century is atomic fission and the nuclear bomb, likewise it would not seem fortuitous that the early Muslim's medical endeavor should have led to a discovery that was quite as revolutionary though possibly more beneficent."

"A philosophy of self-centredness, under whatever disguise, would be both incomprehensible and reprehensible to the Muslim mind. That mind was incapable of viewing man, whether in health or sickness as isolated from God, from fellow men, and from the world around him. It was probably inevitable that the Muslims should have discovered that disease need not be born within the patient himself but may reach from outside, in other words, that they should have been the first to establish clearly the existence of contagion."

"One of the most famous exponents of Muslim universalism and an eminent figure in Islamic learning was Ibn Sina, known in the West as Avicenna (981-1037). For a thousand years he has retained his original renown as one of the greatest thinkers and medical scholars in history. His most important medical works are the Qanun (Canon) and a treatise on Cardiac drugs. The 'Qanun fi-l-Tibb' is an immense encyclopedia of medicine. It contains some of the most illuminating thoughts pertaining to distinction of mediastinitis from pleurisy; contagious nature of phthisis; distribution of diseases by water and soil; careful description of skin troubles; of sexual diseases and perversions; of nervous ailments."

"We have reason to believe that when, during the crusades, Europe at last began to establish hospitals, they were inspired by the Arabs of near East....The first hospital in Paris, Les Quinze-vingt, was founded by Louis IX after his return from the crusade 1254-1260."

"We find in his (Jabir, Geber) writings remarkably sound views on methods of chemical research, a theory on the geologic formation of metals (the six metals differ essentially because of different proportions of sulphur and mercury in them); preparation of various substances (e.g., basic lead carbonatic, arsenic and antimony from their sulphides)."

Ibn Haytham's writings reveal his fine development of the experimental faculty. His tables of corresponding angles of incidence and refraction of light passing from one medium to another show how closely he had approached discovering the law of constancy of ratio of sines, later attributed to snell. He accounted correctly for twilight as due to atmospheric refraction, estimating the sun's depression to be 19 degrees below the horizon, at the commencement of the phenomenon in the mornings or at its termination in the evenings."

"A great deal of geographical as well as historical and scientific knowledge is contained in the thirty volume meadows of Gold and Mines of Gems by one of the leading Muslim Historians, the tenth century al Mas'udi. A more strictly geographical work is the dictionary 'Mujam al-Buldan' by al-Hamami (1179-1229). This is a veritable encyclopedia that, in going far beyond the confines of geography, incorporates also a great deal of scientific lore."

"They studied, collected and described plants that might have some utilitarian purpose, whether in agriculture or in medicine. These excellent tendencies, without equivalent in Christendom, were continued during the first half of the thirteenth century by an admirable group of four botanists. One of these Ibn al-Baitar compiled the most elaborate Arabic work on the subject (Botany), in fact the most important for the whole period extending from Dioscorides down to the sixteenth century. It was a true encyclopedia on the subject, incorporating the whole Greek and Arabic experience."

"'Abd al-Malik ibn Quraib al-Asmai (739-831) was a pious Arab who wrote some valuable books on human anatomy. Al-Jawaliqi who flourished in the first half of the twelfth century and 'Abd al-Mumin who flourished in the second half of the thirteenth century in Egypt, wrote treatises on horses. The greatest zoologist amongst the Arabs was al-Damiri (1405) of Egypt whose book on animal life, 'Hayat al-Hayawan' has been translated into English by A.S.G. Jayakar (London 1906, 1908)."

"The weight of venerable authority, for example that of Ptolemy, seldom intimidated them. They were always eager to put a theory to tests, and they never tired of experimentation. Though motivated and permeated by the spirit of their religion, they would not allow dogma as interpreted by the orthodox to stand in the way of their scientific research."

References:

1. George Sarton, "Introduction to the History of Science, Vol. I-IV," Carnegie Institute of Washington, Baltimore, 1927-31; Williams and Wilkins, Baltimore, 1950-53.
2. Robert Briffault, "The Making of Humanity," London, 1938.
3. T. Arnold and A. Guillaume, "The Legacy of Islam," Oxford University Press, 1931.
4. E. Gibbon, "Decline and Fall of Roman Empire," London, 1900.


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http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/Introl3.html

By the tenth century, the intellectual superiority of the Arabs (Muslims) was recognized in Europe. The first Christian to take up the torch of learning was Pope Sylvester II (Gerbert, d. 1003 AD). He introduced the Arab astronomy and mathematics, and Arabic numerals in place of the clumsy Roman ones. He was followed by many, especially Constantinus Africanus in the eleventh century, and Bishop Raymond (Raimundo) in the twelfth century. As early as eleventh century Toledo became a center for the transmission of Arabic (Islamic) culture and science to Europe. A number of translators flourished there. Among the scholars, who flocked to it from all over Europe, were Gerard of Cremona (1117- 1187) and John of Seville. Other famous translators were Adelard of Bath, Robert of Chester, Michael Scot, Stephenson of Saragossa, William of Lunis and Philip of Tripoli. The early translations were primarily into Latin and some into Hebrew. Subsequent translations were done from Latin or Hebrew into vernacular languages of Europe.

Many translators at Toledo had neither command over the Arabic language nor sufficient knowledge of the subject matter. They translated word for word and, where they failed to understand, Latinized the Arabic words. Under the supervision of Archdeacon Domenico Gundisalvi, and with the cooperation of the Hebrew Johannes ben David, the school of the Archbishop of Toledo rendered into Latin a large number of Arabic works on science and philosophy.

Gerard, who reminded Hunayn ibn Ishaq of Toledo, translated into Latin more than seventy Arabic books on different subjects. He was born in 1114 in Cremona, Italy. He went to Toledo, Spain to learn Arabic so he could translate available Arabic works into Latin. Gerard remained there for the rest of his life and died in 1187 in Toledo, Spain (Andalusia). Gerard's name is sometimes written as Gherard. Among his translations were the surgical part of Al-Tasrif of Al-zahravi (Albucasis), the Kitab al-Mansuri of AL-Razi (Rhazes) and the Qanun of Ibn Sina (Avicenna), Banu Musa's works, Al-Biruni's commentry on Al-Khawarizmi (after whom concept "Algorithm" is named), the tables of Jabir b. Aflah and Zarqali. John of Seville under the patronage of Raymond translated several works of Avicenna, Qusta Ibn Luqa and Al-Faraghni.


More in the E-Book


The E-book article contains references to Gundisalvi, Michael Scotus, Robert of Chester, Hermanus Allemanus (Teutonicus), Adelard of Bath, King Henry II, Sicily and Spain, two baptized Sultans of Sicily, Roger II and Frederick II, Hohenstaufen, Mirabilis, Constantine, Toledo, Narbonne, Naples, Balogna and Paris.

References:
1. George Sarton, "Introduction to the History of Science, Vol. I-III," Williams and Wilkins, Baltimore, 1927-31, also 1950.
2. Robert Briffault, "The Making of Humanity," London, 1938.
3. Thomas Arnold, "The Legacy of Islam," Oxford University Press, 1960.
4. T. Arnold and A. Guillaume, "The Legacy of Islam," Oxford University Press, 1931.
5. E.G. Brown, "Arabian Medicine," Cambridge, 1921.
6. D. Campbell, "Arabian Medicine and its influence on the Middle Ages," London, 1926.
7. P.K. Hitti, "History of Arabs," London, MacMillan, 1956.
8. De Lacy O'Leary, "Arabic Thought in History."

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http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/ghazi1.html

While the "occidental-oriental" dichotomy of recent centuries identifies the World of Islam as separate and `Eastern,' that world, is inextricably linked with the West. In general, however, "Westerners - Europeans - have great difficulty in considering the possibility that they are in some way seriously indebted to the Arab [Islamic] world, or that the Arabs [Muslims] were central to the making of medieval Europe" (Maria Menocal, The Arabic Role in Medieval Literary History; 1987; p.xiii). Two notable contemporary exceptions are: Carl Sagan, the Nobel laureate astronomer (Princeton University) and John Esposito, Director, Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding, Georgetown University. Both have candidly talked of West's Judeo-Christian-and-Islamic heritage. Esposito talked of this heritage recently, and added, "Nobody ever told me that," and that he "was always taught the linkages between Judaism and Chistianity..." (CNN, 12/15/95).

This thesis may be corroborated by merely presenting a few quotations from eminent past and present scholars (interested readers may wish to consult the references for greater detail):

1. "No historical student of the culture of Western Europe can ever reconstruct for himself the intellectual values of the later Middle Ages unless he possesses a vivid awareness of Islam looming in the background." (Pierce Butler, "Fifteenth Century of Arabic Authors in Latin Translation, in the McDonald Presentation Volume; Freeport, N.Y., 1933; p.63)

2. "The Arab has left his intellectual impress on Europe, as, before long, Christendom will have to confess; he has indelibly written it on the heavens, as anyone may see who reads the names of the stars on a common celestial globe." (John W. Draper, History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, Harper & Row; Vol.2, 1876 & 1904; p.42)

3. "Because Europe was reacting against Islam it belittled the influence of Saracens [Muslims] and exaggerated its dependence on its Greek and Roman heritage. So today an important task for us is to correct this false emphasis and to acknowledge fully our debt to the Arab and Islamic world" (W. Montgomery Watt, Islamic Surveys: The Influence of Islam on Medieval Europe; Edinburgh, England; 1972; p.84).

4. "One of the hallmarks of civilized man is knowledge of the past - [including]the past of others with whom one's own culture has had repeated and fruitful contact; or the past of any group that has contributed to the ascent of man. The Arabs fit profoundly into both of the latter two categories. But in the West the Arabs are not well known. Victims of ignorance as well as misinformation, they and their culture have often been stigmatized from afar" (John Hayes, The Genius of Arab Civilization: Source of Renaissance; MIT Press, 1983; p. 2)

5. "Too often science in Arabia has been seen as nothing more than a holding operation. The area has been viewed as a giant storehouse for previously discovered scientific results, keeping them until they could be passed on for use in the West. But this is, of course, a travesty of the truth. Certainly the Arabs did inherit Greek science - and some Indian and Chinese science too, for that matter - and later passed it on to the West. But this is far from being all they did" (Colin Ronan, Science: Its History and Development Among World's Cultures; New York; 1982; p.203).

6. An eminent mid-20th century scholar, George Sarton (Harvard Univ.), traces the "roots" of Western intellectual development to the Arab tradition, which was "the outstanding stream, and remained until 14th century one of the largest streams of medieval thought." Further, "The Arabs were standing on the shoulders of their Greek forerunners, just as the Americans are standing on the shoulders of their European ones. There is nothing wrong in that." Then Sarton criticizes those who "will glibly say `The Arabs simply translated Greek writings, they were industrious imitators...' This is not absolutely untrue, but is such a small part of the truth, that when it is allowed to stand alone, it is worse than a lie" (George Sarton, A Guide to the History of Science; Mass.; 1952; pp.27-28).

WHO WERE SOME OF THE MEDIEVAL EUROPEAN SCHOLARS INFLUENCED DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY BY THE WRITINGS OF ISLAMIC SCHOLARS?

The list is almost endless, but here are a few prominent names:

Adelard of Bath, Peter Abelard, Robert Grossetteste, Alexander of Hales, Albertus Magnus, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Bonaventura, Duns Scotus, Roger Bacon, Marsilius of Padua, Richard of Middleton, Nicholas Oresme, Joannes Buridanus, Siger of Brabant, John Peckham, Henry of Gant, Williams of Occham, Walter Burley, William of Auvergne, Dante Algheri, Blaise Pascal, and numerous others.

The well-known early 12th century Englishman, Adelard of Bath, often proudly acknowledged his debt to the Arabs - "trained (as he says) by Arab scientists....I was taught by my Arab masters to be led only by reason, whereas you were taught to follow the halter of the captured image of ancient authority [i.e., authority of the Church]" (Tina Stiefel, The Intellectual Revolution in Twelfth Century Europe; St. Martin's Press, N.Y., 1989; pp.71, 80).

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http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/sciencehistory.htm


The concept that the sciences are exclusively the products of Western minds remains unquestioned by most individuals. A review of any of the standard texts or encyclopedias regarding the history of science would support this view. As these books are perused, it becomes evident that the only contributors given significant mention are Europeans and/or Americans. It is hardly necessary to repeat the oft-mentioned names: Galileo, Copernicus, Kepler, Bacon, Newton, Da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin, etc. The unavoidable conclusion is that major contributions to the development of the modern sciences by other cultures is minimal. Most texts give little or no mention of the advancements made by ancient Indian, Chinese or, particularly, Muslim scholars.

Western civilization has made invaluable contributions to the development of the sciences. However, so have numerous other cultures. Unfortunately, Westerners have long been credited with discoveries made many centuries before by Islamic scholars. Thus, many of the basic sciences were invented by non-Europeans. For instance, George Sarton states that modern Western medicine did not originate from Europe and that it actually arose from the (Islamic) orient.

The data in this section concerning dates, names and topics of Western advances has been derived from three main sources: World Book Encyclopedia, Encyclopaedia Britannica and Isaac Asimov's 700 page book, Chronology of Science and Discovery. Supportive data for the accomplishments of Islamic scholars is derived from the miscellaneous references listed in the bibliography of this book.

What is Taught: The first mention of man in flight was by Roger Bacon, who drew a flying apparatus. Leonardo da Vinci also conceived of airborne transport and drew several prototypes.

What Should be Taught: Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented, constructed and tested a flying machine in the 800's A.D. Roger Bacon learned of flying machines from Arabic references to Ibn Firnas' machine. The latter's invention antedates Bacon by 500 years and Da Vinci by some 700 years.

What is Taught: Glass mirrors were first produced in 1291 in Venice.

What Should be Taught: Glass mirrors were in use in Islamic Spain as early as the 11th century. The Venetians learned of the art of fine glass production from Syrian artisans during the 9th and 10th centuries.

What is Taught: Until the 14th century, the only type of clock available was the water clock. In 1335, a large mechanical clock was erected in Milan, Italy. This was possibly the first weight-driven clock.

What Should be Taught: A variety of mechanical clocks were produced by Spanish Muslim engineers, both large and small, and this knowledge was transmitted to Europe through Latin translations of Islamic books on mechanics. These clocks were weight-driven. Designs and illustrations of epi-cyclic and segmental gears were provided. One such clock included a mercury escapement. The latter type was directly copied by Europeans during the 15th century. In addition, during the 9th century, Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain, according to Will Durant, invented a watch-like device which kept accurate time. The Muslims also constructed a variety of highly accurate astronomical clocks for use in their observatories.

What is Taught: In the 17th century, the pendulum was developed by Galileo during his teenage years. He noticed a chandelier swaying as it was being blown by the wind. As a result, he went home and invented the pendulum.

What Should be Taught: The pendulum was discovered by Ibn Yunus al-Masri during the 10th century, who was the first to study and document its oscillatory motion. Its value for use in clocks was introduced by Muslim physicists during the 15th century.

What is Taught: Movable type and the printing press was invented in the West by Johannes Gutenberg of Germany during the 15th century.

What Should be Taught: In 1454, Gutenberg developed the most sophisticated printing press of the Middle Ages. However, movable brass type was in use in Islamic Spain 100 years prior, and that is where the West's first printing devices were made.

What is Taught: Isaac Newton's 17th century study of lenses, light and prisms forms the foundation of the modern science of optics.

What Should be Taught: In the 1lth century al-Haytham determined virtually everything that Newton advanced regarding optics centuries prior and is regarded by numerous authorities as the "founder of optics. " There is little doubt that Newton was influenced by him. Al-Haytham was the most quoted physicist of the Middle Ages. His works were utilized and quoted by a greater number of European scholars during the 16th and 17th centuries than those of Newton and Galileo combined.

What is Taught: Isaac Newton, during the 17th century, discovered that white light consists of various rays of colored light.

What Should be Taught: This discovery was made in its entirety by al-Haytham (1lth century) and Kamal ad-Din (14th century). Newton did make original discoveries, but this was not one of them.

What is Taught: The concept of the finite nature of matter was first introduced by Antione Lavoisier during the 18th century. He discovered that, although matter may change its form or shape, its mass always remains the same. Thus, for instance, if water is heated to steam, if salt is dissolved in water or if a piece of wood is burned to ashes, the total mass remains unchanged.

What Should be Taught: The principles of this discovery were elaborated centuries before by Islamic Persia's great scholar, al-Biruni (d. 1050). Lavoisier was a disciple of the Muslim chemists and physicists and referred to their books frequently.

What is Taught: The Greeks were the developers of trigonometry.

What Should be Taught: Trigonometry remained largely a theoretical science among the Greeks. It was developed to a level of modern perfection by Muslim scholars, although the weight of the credit must be given to al-Battani. The words describing the basic functions of this science, sine, cosine and tangent, are all derived from Arabic terms. Thus, original contributions by the Greeks in trigonometry were minimal.

What is Taught: The use of decimal fractions in mathematics was first developed by a Dutchman, Simon Stevin, in 1589. He helped advance the mathematical sciences by replacing the cumbersome fractions, for instance, 1/2, with decimal fractions, for example, 0.5.

What Should be Taught: Muslim mathematicians were the first to utilize decimals instead of fractions on a large scale. Al-Kashi's book, Key to Arithmetic, was written at the beginning of the 15th century and was the stimulus for the systematic application of decimals to whole numbers and fractions thereof. It is highly probably that Stevin imported the idea to Europe from al-Kashi's work.

What is Taught: The first man to utilize algebraic symbols was the French mathematician, Francois Vieta. In 1591, he wrote an algebra book describing equations with letters such as the now familiar x and y's. Asimov says that this discovery had an impact similar to the progression from Roman numerals to Arabic numbers.

What Should be Taught: Muslim mathematicians, the inventors of algebra, introduced the concept of using letters for unknown variables in equations as early as the 9th century A.D. Through this system, they solved a variety of complex equations, including quadratic and cubic equations. They used symbols to develop and perfect the binomial theorem.

What is Taught: The difficult cubic equations (x to the third power) remained unsolved until the 16th century when Niccolo Tartaglia, an Italian mathematician, solved them.

What Should be Taught: Cubic equations as well as numerous equations of even higher degrees were solved with ease by Muslim mathematicians as early as the 10th century.

What is Taught: The concept that numbers could be less than zero, that is negative numbers, was unknown until 1545 when Geronimo Cardano introduced the idea.

What Should he Taught: Muslim mathematicians introduced negative numbers for use in a variety of arithmetic functions at least 400 years prior to Cardano.

What is Taught: In 1614, John Napier invented logarithms and logarithmic tables.

What Should be Taught: Muslim mathematicians invented logarithms and produced logarithmic tables several centuries prior. Such tables were common in the Islamic world as early as the 13th century.

What is Taught: During the 17th century Rene Descartes made the discovery that algebra could be used to solve geometrical problems. By this, he greatly advanced the science of geometry.

What Should be Taught: Mathematicians of the Islamic Empire accomplished precisely this as early as the 9th century A.D. Thabit bin Qurrah was the first to do so, and he was followed by Abu'l Wafa, whose 10th century book utilized algebra to advance geometry into an exact and simplified science.

What is Taught: Isaac Newton, during the 17th century, developed the binomial theorem, which is a crucial component for the study of algebra.

What Should be Taught: Hundreds of Muslim mathematicians utilized and perfected the binomial theorem. They initiated its use for the systematic solution of algebraic problems during the 10th century (or prior).

What is Taught: No improvement had been made in the astronomy of the ancients during the Middle Ages regarding the motion of planets until the 13th century. Then Alphonso the Wise of Castile (Middle Spain) invented the Aphonsine Tables, which were more accurate than Ptolemy's.

What Should be Taught: Muslim astronomers made numerous improvements upon Ptolemy's findings as early as the 9th century. They were the first astronomers to dispute his archaic ideas. In their critic of the Greeks, they synthesized proof that the sun is the center of the solar system and that the orbits of the earth and other planets might be elliptical. They produced hundreds of highly accurate astronomical tables and star charts. Many of their calculations are so precise that they are regarded as contemporary. The AlphonsineTables are little more than copies of works on astronomy transmitted to Europe via Islamic Spain, i.e. the Toledo Tables.

What is Taught: The English scholar Roger Bacon (d. 1292) first mentioned glass lenses for improving vision. At nearly the same time, eyeglasses could be found in use both in China and Europe.

What Should be Taught: Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented eyeglasses during the 9th century, and they were manufactured and sold throughout Spain for over two centuries. Any mention of eyeglasses by Roger Bacon was simply a regurgitation of the work of al-Haytham (d. 1039), whose research Bacon frequently referred to.

What is Taught: Gunpowder was developed in the Western world as a result of Roger Bacon's work in 1242. The first usage of gunpowder in weapons was when the Chinese fired it from bamboo shoots in attempt to frighten Mongol conquerors. They produced it by adding sulfur and charcoal to saltpeter.

What Should be Taught: The Chinese developed saltpeter for use in fireworks and knew of no tactical military use for gunpowder, nor did they invent its formula. Research by Reinuad and Fave have clearly shown that gunpowder was formulated initially by Muslim chemists. Further, these historians claim that the Muslims developed the first fire-arms. Notably, Muslim armies used grenades and other weapons in their defence of Algericus against the Franks during the 14th century. Jean Mathes indicates that the Muslim rulers had stock-piles of grenades, rifles, crude cannons, incendiary devices, sulfur bombs and pistols decades before such devices were used in Europe. The first mention of a cannon was in an Arabic text around 1300 A.D. Roger Bacon learned of the formula for gunpowder from Latin translations of Arabic books. He brought forth nothing original in this regard.

What is Taught: The compass was invented by the Chinese who may have been the first to use it for navigational purposes sometime between 1000 and 1100 A.D. The earliest reference to its use in navigation was by the Englishman, Alexander Neckam (1157-1217).

What Should be Taught: Muslim geographers and navigators learned of the magnetic needle, possibly from the Chinese, and were the first to use magnetic needles in navigation. They invented the compass and passed the knowledge of its use in navigation to the West. European navigators relied on Muslim pilots and their instruments when exploring unknown territories. Gustav Le Bon claims that the magnetic needle and compass were entirely invented by the Muslims and that the Chinese had little to do with it. Neckam, as well as the Chinese, probably learned of it from Muslim traders. It is noteworthy that the Chinese improved their navigational expertise after they began interacting with the Muslims during the 8th century.

What is Taught: The first man to classify the races was the German Johann F. Blumenbach, who divided mankind into white, yellow, brown, black and red peoples.

What Should be Taught: Muslim scholars of the 9th through 14th centuries invented the science of ethnography. A number of Muslim geographers classified the races, writing detailed explanations of their unique cultural habits and physical appearances. They wrote thousands of pages on this subject. Blumenbach's works were insignificant in comparison.

What is Taught: The science of geography was revived during the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries when the ancient works of Ptolemy were discovered. The Crusades and the Portuguese/Spanish expeditions also contributed to this reawakening. The first scientifically-based treatise on geography were produced during this period by Europe's scholars.

What Should be Taught: Muslim geographers produced untold volumes of books on the geography of Africa, Asia, India, China and the Indies during the 8th through 15th centuries. These writings included the world's first geographical encyclopedias, almanacs and road maps. Ibn Battutah's 14thth through 15th centuries far exceeded the output by Europeans regarding the geography of these regions well into the 18th century. The Crusades led to the destruction of educational institutions, their scholars and books. They brought nothing substantive regarding geography to the Western world. century masterpieces provide a detailed view of the geography of the ancient world. The Muslim geographers of the 10

What is Taught: Robert Boyle, in the 17th century, originated the science of chemistry.

What Should be Taught: A variety of Muslim chemists, including ar-Razi, al-Jabr, al-Biruni and al-Kindi, performed scientific experiments in chemistry some 700 years prior to Boyle. Durant writes that the Muslims introduced the experimental method to this science. Humboldt regards the Muslims as the founders of chemistry.

What is Taught: Leonardo da Vinci (16th century) fathered the science of geology when he noted that fossils found on mountains indicated a watery origin of the earth.

What Should be Taught: Al-Biruni (1lth century) made precisely this observation and added much to it, including a huge book on geology, hundreds of years before Da Vinci was born. Ibn Sina noted this as well (see pages 100-101). it is probable that Da Vinci first learned of this concept from Latin translations of Islamic books. He added nothing original to their findings.

What is Taught: The first mention of the geological formation of valleys was in 1756, when Nicolas Desmarest proposed that they were formed over a long periods of time by streams.

What Should be Taught: Ibn Sina and al-Biruni made precisely this discovery during the 11th century (see pages 102 and 103), fully 700 years prior to Desmarest.

What is Taught: Galileo (17th century) was the world's first great experimenter.

What Should be Taught: Al-Biruni (d. 1050) was the world's first great experimenter. He wrote over 200 books, many of which discuss his precise experiments. His literary output in the sciences amounts to some 13,000 pages, far exceeding that written by Galileo or, for that matter, Galileo and Newton combined.

What is Taught: The Italian Giovanni Morgagni is regarded as the father of pathology because he was the first to correctly describe the nature of disease.

What Should be Taught: Islam's surgeons were the first pathologists. They fully realized the nature of disease and described a variety of diseases to modern detail. Ibn Zuhr correctly described the nature of pleurisy, tuberculosis and pericarditis. Az-Zahrawi accurately documented the pathology of hydrocephalus (water on the brain) and other congenital diseases. Ibn al-Quff and Ibn an-Nafs gave perfect descriptions of the diseases of circulation. Other Muslim surgeons gave the first accurate descriptions of certain malignancies, including cancer of the stomach, bowel and esophagus. These surgeons were the originators of pathology, not Giovanni Morgagni.

What is Taught: Paul Ehrlich (19th century) is the originator of drug chemotherapy, that is the use of specific drugs to kill microbes.

What Should be Taught: Muslim physicians used a variety of specific substances to destroy microbes. They applied sulfur topically specifically to kill the scabies mite. Ar-Razi (10th century) used mercurial compounds as topical antiseptics.

What is Taught: Purified alcohol, made through distillation, was first produced by Arnau de Villanova, a Spanish alchemist, in 1300 A.D.

What Should be Taught: Numerous Muslim chemists produced medicinal-grade alcohol through distillation as early as the 10th century and manufactured on a large scale the first distillation devices for use in chemistry. They used alcohol as a solvent and antiseptic.

What is Taught: The first surgery performed under inhalation anesthesia was conducted by C.W. Long, an American, in 1845.

What Should be Taught: Six hundred years prior to Long, Islamic Spain's Az-Zahrawi and Ibn Zuhr, among other Muslim surgeons, performed hundreds of surgeries under inhalation anesthesia with the use of narcotic-soaked sponges which were placed over the face.

What is Taught: During the 16th century Paracelsus invented the use of opium extracts for anesthesia.

What Should be Taught: Muslim physicians introduced the anesthetic value of opium derivatives during the Middle Ages. Opium was originally used as an anesthetic agent by the Greeks. Paracelus was a student of Ibn Sina's works from which it is almost assured that he derived this idea.

What is Taught: Modern anesthesia was invented in the 19th century by Humphrey Davy and Horace Wells.

What Should be Taught: Modern anesthesia was discovered, mastered and perfected by Muslim anesthetists 900 years before the advent of Davy and Wells. They utilized oral as well as inhalant anesthetics.

What is Taught: The concept of quarantine was first developed in 1403. In Venice, a law was passed preventing strangers from entering the city until a certain waiting period had passed. If, by then, no sign of illness could be found, they were allowed in.

What Should be Taught: The concept of quarantine was first introduced in the 7th century A.D. by the prophet Muhammad, who wisely warned against entering or leaving a region suffering from plague. As early as the 10th century, Muslim physicians innovated the use of isolation wards for individuals suffering with communicable diseases.

What is Taught: The scientific use of antiseptics in surgery was discovered by the British surgeon Joseph Lister in 1865.

What Should be Taught: As early as the 10th century, Muslim physicians and surgeons were applying purified alcohol to wounds as an antiseptic agent. Surgeons in Islamic Spain utilized special methods for maintaining antisepsis prior to and during surgery. They also originated specific protocols for maintaining hygiene during the post-operative period. Their success rate was so high that dignitaries throughout Europe came to Cordova, Spain, to be treated at what was comparably the "Mayo Clinic" of the Middle Ages.

What is Taught: In 1545, the scientific use of surgery was advanced by the French surgeon Ambroise Pare. Prior to him, surgeons attempted to stop bleeding through the gruesome procedure of searing the wound with boiling oil. Pare stopped the use of boiling oils and began ligating arteries. He is considered the "father of rational surgery." Pare was also one of the first Europeans to condemn such grotesque "surgical" procedures as trepanning (see reference #6, pg. 110).

What Should be Taught: Islamic Spain's illustrious surgeon, az-Zahrawi (d. 1013), began ligating arteries with fine sutures over 500 years prior to Pare. He perfected the use of Catgut, that is suture made from animal intestines. Additionally, he instituted the use of cotton plus wax to plug bleeding wounds. The full details of his works were made available to Europeans through Latin translations.

Despite this, barbers and herdsmen continued be the primary individuals practicing the "art" of surgery for nearly six centuries after az-Zahrawi's death. Pare himself was a barber, albeit more skilled and conscientious than the average ones.

Included in az-Zahrawi's legacy are dozens of books. His most famous work is a 30 volume treatise on medicine and surgery. His books contain sections on preventive medicine, nutrition, cosmetics, drug therapy, surgical technique, anesthesia, pre and post-operative care as well as drawings of some 200 surgical devices, many of which he invented. The refined and scholarly az-Zahrawi must be regarded as the father and founder of rational surgery, not the uneducated Pare.

What is Taught: William Harvey, during the early 17th century, discovered that blood circulates. He was the first to correctly describe the function of the heart, arteries and veins. Rome's Galen had presented erroneous ideas regarding the circulatory system, and Harvey was the first to determine that blood is pumped throughout the body via the action of the heart and the venous valves. Therefore, he is regarded as the founder of human physiology.

What Should be Taught: In the 10th century, Islam's ar-Razi wrote an in-depth treatise on the venous system, accurately describing the function of the veins and their valves. Ibn an-Nafs and Ibn al-Quff (13th century) provided full documentation that the blood circulates and correctly described the physiology of the heart and the function of its valves 300 years before Harvey. William Harvey was a graduate of Italy's famous Padua University at a time when the majority of its curriculum was based upon Ibn Sina's and ar-Razi's textbooks.

What is Taught: The first pharmacopeia (book of medicines) was published by a German scholar in 1542. According to World Book Encyclopedia, the science of pharmacology was begun in the 1900's as an off-shoot of chemistry due to the analysis of crude plant materials. Chemists, after isolating the active ingredients from plants, realized their medicinal value.

What Should be Taught: According to the eminent scholar of Arab history, Phillip Hitti, the Muslims, not the Greeks or Europeans, wrote the first "modern" pharmacopeia. The science of pharmacology was originated by Muslim physicians during the 9th century. They developed it into a highly refined and exact science. Muslim chemists, pharmacists and physicians produced thousands of drugs and/or crude herbal extracts one thousand years prior to the supposed birth of pharmacology. During the 14th century Ibn Baytar wrote a monumental pharmacopeia listing some 1400 different drugs. Hundreds of other pharmacopeias were published during the Islamic Era. It is likely that the German work is an offshoot of that by Ibn Baytar, which was widely circulated in Europe.

What is Taught: The discovery of the scientific use of drugs in the treatment of specific diseases was made by Paracelsus, the Swiss-born physician, during the 16th century. He is also credited with being the first to use practical experience as a determining factor in the treatment of patients rather than relying exclusively on the works of the ancients.

What Should be Taught: Ar-Razi, Ibn Sina, al-Kindi, Ibn Rushd, az-Zahrawi, Ibn Zuhr, Ibn Baytar, Ibn al-Jazzar, Ibn Juljul, Ibn al-Quff, Ibn an-Nafs, al-Biruni, Ibn Sahl and hundreds of other Muslim physicians mastered the science of drug therapy for the treatment of specific symptoms and diseases. In fact, this concept was entirely their invention. The word "drug" is derived from Arabic. Their use of practical experience and careful observation was extensive.

Muslim physicians were the first to criticize ancient medical theories and practices. Ar-Razi devoted an entire book as a critique of Galen's anatomy. The works of Paracelsus are insignificant compared to the vast volumes of medical writings and original findings accomplished by the medical giants of Islam.

What is Taught: The first sound approach to the treatment of disease was made by a German, Johann Weger, in the 1500's.

What Should be Taught: Harvard's George Sarton says that modern medicine is entirely an Islamic development and that Setting the Record Straight the Muslim physicians of the 9th through 12th centuries were precise, scientific, rational and sound in their approach. Johann Weger was among thousands of Europeans physicians during the 15th through 17th centuries who were taught the medicine of ar-Razi and Ibn Sina. He contributed nothing original.

What is Taught: Medical treatment for the insane was modernized by Philippe Pinel when in 1793 he operated France's first insane asylum.

What Should be Taught: As early as the 1lth century, Islamic hospitals maintained special wards for the insane. They treated them kindly and presumed their disease was real at a time when the insane were routinely burned alive in Europe as witches and sorcerers. A curative approach was taken for mental illness and, for the first time in history, the mentally ill were treated with supportive care, drugs and psychotherapy. Every major Islamic city maintained an insane asylum where patients were treated at no charge. In fact, the Islamic system for the treatment of the insane excels in comparison to the current model, as it was more humane and was highly effective as well.

What is Taught: Kerosine was first produced by the an Englishman, Abraham Gesner, in 1853. He distilled it from asphalt.

What Should be Taught: Muslim chemists produced kerosine as a distillate from petroleum products over 1,000 years prior to Gesner (see Encyclopaedia Britannica under the heading, Petroleum).


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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 20:27
if ure in college take some middle eastern history classes actually thought by real middle eastern history professors and read some books and open your eyes you would see the contribution the islamic world has made.  Islamic spain was the centerpoint of science and thought until the spanish reconquista forced the muslims and jews out.  the very concept of reason was thought of by islamic scholars and medieval "scholars" aka monks who did not do any intellectual works besides copy down the few classics they had kept and theological discussions, such as adelbard were awed at the education they got from islamic schools and how to use reason instead of what the clergy says.
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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 01:21
Originally posted by ill_teknique

Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by ill_teknique

Greece was overemphazised because they hostile to the islamic world.

Modern Greece is hardly overemphasised. And how could ancient Greece, which is the culture that gets the credit, possibly have been hostile to Islam, which didn't exist?



the west was hostile to the islamic world therefore they were overemphasizing the contributions of rome and greece.  most scholars agree and if you did reserach you would realize this.  this is the problem in the west that the schools teach this nonsense still and it is only in the last ten years that it has been changing and the west is beginning to look back into history to find the real events.

The middle east hasnt been a threat to europe since the early to mid 1700's.. this is why so much of the middle east became colonies. Tell us some of these overemphasizms that they did for Greece? Did they overemphasize Athenian democracy, which even IF the Islamic world did discover, it was never put into practice, and still it has never been democratic.

http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 02:10

No matter how many quotes you present.
I find it hard if not impossible to discredit the documented work of Hipparchus and Ptolemy or the Egyptian and Babylonian use of Triginometry some thousands of years before the Arabic world had ever seen these equations, in order to support the 'invention' by the Arabs.
Now perfecting or expanding our knowledge is something quite different and may be easily accepted but inventing?
I do mean please

Here is a nice site you might enjoy.
http://www.domcentral.org/study/ashley/arts/arts302.htm
or
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Greeks.htm

We could mention the Geographic Triangulation of ancient Hellinic Temples, cities etc but that will take us a long way off topic.






Edited by Phallanx
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 03:00

Originally posted by Phallanx


No matter how many quotes you present.
I find it hard if not impossible to discredit the documented work of Hipparchus and Ptolemy or the Egyptian and Babylonian use of Triginometry some thousands of years before the Arabic world had ever seen these equations, in order to support the 'invention' by the Arabs.
Now perfecting or expanding our knowledge is something quite different and may be easily accepted but inventing?

i didnt read all that Quotes but where doest say that these were invented by Arabs?

most are developed and presented by them.

 

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 03:07
azimuth

To be honest, neither did I read the quotes. I stopped reading the post when I reached:

" you people apparently dont do research a lot of things that are traditonally acredited to greece in the west were discovered by the islamic world."

If th word 'discovered' in his post has any other meaning than 'invented',  then I obviously am mistaken but it seems that he is claiming the 'invention' to be Islamic.
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 05:05
Hahaha, another "my tomato was before your tomato" discussion...
CARRY NOTHING
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 05:23

 

well nothing there in the last post with the qoutes about tomatoes , also i dont think that there are anywhere it says that they ( muslims) invented things before the older the cultures did.

it just development and re represent these knowledge . and it is a fact that there are alot of Greek knowledge came to the west through Islam. developed once mostly. that beside other knowledge from other than Greeks, others like persians and Indians. and there are some inventions too.

anyway its a matter of developments similar to the US and some European countries and Asian countries like Japan, the knowledge they have is a development from older once. at least they used it and developed it  while we ( middel east ) are watching and saying  WAW how smart are they?!!

 

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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 05:29
The tomato that I used in the previous post is a philosophical allegory.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 05:33

 

i know

mine too

 

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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 06:01
CARRY NOTHING
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