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1421

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1421
    Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 08:28

I am a newbie and therefore I don't know if this subject has been previously discussed.

I am currently reading the book "1421, the year China descovered the world" in which is argued that China sent several fleets under Ming dinasty that descovered America 71 years before Columbus.

I am very suspicious about this book but, if any of you have any information confirming/denying the information given I would thak you. 

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 13:45
That's weird...was that the same time of this Chinese sailor who sailed to Africa and got a giraffe?  I think the name was Zeng Ho or something like that....
Grrr..
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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 13:54

I seriously doubt Zheng He went to America.  He might have sent a ship down over Cape, but that's it I think.

Besides, the Chinese don't need Zheng He's ship to claim the discovery of America...  They have the native americans for that.

Recent articles I found saying Native Americans were Ancient Chinese descendents:

http://big5.xinhuanet.com/gate/big5/www.cflac.org.cn/chinaar tnews/2003-06/25/content_642417.htm

haha, personaly I don't believe it.  I can't translate this. It's only for fun anyway.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 14:07
Originally posted by demon

That's weird...was that the same time of this Chinese sailor who sailed to Africa and got a giraffe?  I think the name was Zeng Ho or something like that....

 

Yes, it was at the same time. For some reason the book is a best seller. I am reading it because it seems very familiar with navigation in the Middle Ages (the author is a former British naval officer) but I think it is scorned by scholars.

I think the motivation is the rise of Modern China and so it has matched with the interest for Chinese culture.

In the first page he makes the first mistake: he says that Chineses scorned westerners at the time and so the ambassadors of England, France... and Spain!!! were not invited to the inauguration of the Forbidden City in Beijing.

Anyway it is possible him to be right. I am just beginning the book.



Edited by Catn
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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 15:00

"Besides, the Chinese don't need Zheng He's ship to claim the discovery of America...  They have the native americans for that."

 

The Chinese didn't claim that at all, it was Menzie, in fact the chinese scholar society dismiss it as ridiculous and nonsense talk without basis.

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 15:32
Menzie...can anyone post information about him?  I'm interested to know
Grrr..
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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 16:46

Warhead, the link I posted is written by a Chinese professor.  I know it is in Chinese and not many people will read it.   But it basically says the Native Indians are apart of Yi.  And they also worship (Yu).  Where the Sioux tribes's symbol of a black frog with a snake that shapped like the ancient writing of E (Jio, nine which is a number closely related to Yu) is refering to X (Guen, Yu's father) who turned into a 3 legged frog after his death and (Yu) who was born a snake out of his father's belly. 

It also says most Native Americans worships this symbol named Yuwintapi, it acutally means ӥ (Yu-Wong-Tai-Pin, meaning king Yu who creates peace).  It then went in to this whole thing explaining all the pictural symboles of the Native Americans, even the Incas and Mayans are related to the ancient Chinese legends.  How all their last name are related to Wind which was the trade mark of the Dong-Yi people.

I take it as pure speculation.  So it's just for fun anyway.  It did raise some interesting views.  But I don't think any of it is true.  Simply for the fact that there were people in the Americas way before the times of Yu.

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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 19:03

"Warhead, the link I posted is written by a Chinese professor.  I know it is in Chinese and not many people will read it.   But it basically says the Native Indians are apart of Yi. "

 

I'ver herd of this speculation, it compared to the vast similarity between the Chinese calligraphy with that of the Olmecs. But I wasn't talking about this, I was talking about zheng He's 1421 expedition which no one other than Menzie claimed.

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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 21:11

1421 Was a great fiction book. That book was full of so much speculation and so much reliance on the "Well all of the records were burned during the dynasty change" theory. I can't trust someone whose only proof was supposedly destroyed. However I do not doubt the chinese were great nautical geniuses, also I don't doubt that they could have visited some places (Australia) but to go to all of these places without one shred of physical evidence seems a bit silly to me.

Oh and BTW I really liked the book, but then again I love exploration ages (Vikings discover america, spanish discover america, chinese (supposedly) discover america and portuguese(supposedly) discover america................)

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  Quote fastspawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 23:11
I believe the Chinese travelled to the Africas, Indias and SEAs and to the East Coast of America, where they traded porcelein with the Amerindians. However there is no documentary proof about their visit to the Australias and Antarctica, so i put it to pure speculation.
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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 04:08

There is evidence of the Zheng's travel to Africa.  He brought back Rhinos and Giraffs.  He been to India and Java because he left Stoe tablets still standing. 

It is the rest of that book that are incredable.  And without historical backings.

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  Quote YanWang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2004 at 23:17

i think it was passible..

In the 1421 book,it says many evidents showed Chinese sailors or merchants have been afrcia and europe, and more and more evidents discovered shows chinese may have been in americas,australia and other corners of the world, or at least some chinese goods have been shipped there..

we got a new documentary series named 1421 China discovered the world, is on showing on phoenix tv channel. its produced by phoenix tv with BBC. i watch it and think its not a ridiculous theory though.it has some water for people to think.



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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2004 at 02:20

Actually, that show has two parts, and the second part really showed just how ridiculous the theory is.....

 

I mean.... Did Zheng He's fleet have to ability to sail around the world.  Yes he totally could.  But did he have the vision? Sorry, no he did not.



Edited by hansioux
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