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UNESCO’s Ongoing War Against Hellenism

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baracuda View Drop Down
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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: UNESCO’s Ongoing War Against Hellenism
    Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 15:43
was reading something that someone posted on Columbos.. being Kristophoros Kolomvos.. and all.. this is from the same site and interesting...

I wont paste the text here the link is below..

http://www.grecoreport.com/UNESCO's_Ongoing_war.htm

whats your view?
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 04:06

These are nationalist fascist morons. I suppose one finds this short of people in every country...

 

They step on a couple of correct points and totally misinterpret them to fit their ridiculus claims. If you say that "you don't make any sense because...." they reply: "what! so you disagree on this well-accepted point?" and as everyone knows, you can't win an argument with an idiot



Edited by Yiannis
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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 04:16
I know and agree.. but what about the 'points' that unesco has hypothesised to be of non-greek origin,

I would say that if we question a lot of things and keep objectivity there would be many such things that have been attributed to various people's of being wrong.. it would be interesting to find the real roots of some things..
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 05:10

Originally posted by baracuda

I it would be interesting to find the real roots of some things..

There're no roots! If you keep digging you'll end up to the first multi-cell organisms that we can call "animals". These're the real roots!

One must not forget that there's no "parthenogenesis", we're all midgets on the shoulders of giants.

Take as example Greek sculpture. We all admire the plastic forms of classical and (even more) Hellenistic times. However by observing the archaic "Kouros" & "Kores" we see the resemblance to Egyptians forms.  Later on the Greeks evolved these forms to reach an unprecedented level of perfection, but in the beginning they were influenced by earlier civilizations. Same goes with practically everything and for every important culture.

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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  Quote dorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 09:54

I think that there is a golden mean. Of course we all know that all the races have common origins and our ancestors shared common needs and insticts. Greeks or Egyptians were not beings who came from another planet. The migration and the mixture of needs, knowledge and influences which were involved in each nation played significant role to the development of the civilizations. But trying to nulify what History says and show that everything is not as it is said, doesn't work. Middle-Eastern civilizations were the first which came up. Greek civilization was the basis of the development of the European-Western civlization and culture. What we have to do is to respect Greeks, Egyptians, Persians, Phoenicians and all these who made the man be something else but not a simple, uncivilized animal. All have a common source but not a common process and development. 



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"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 10:19
i checked this site out and do agree with some things they have posted... i dont agree with certain aspects of it trying to hellenize certain claims. The things that they say about America are true tho... and its very very sad.
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 15:42
A good example of this "war" would be the topic in "Archeology news" about the finds of "the oldest civilization".
Sure as some claimed it is nothing more than a newpaper article, but it does influence peoples view on history. (especially those that have no knowledge on the topic)
It is a fact that the circulation of a long list of Indo-Gemanic, Indo-Europeans, Nordic invasions...... theories have been developed by a load of wanna-be historians/researchers that do everything in their powers to claim a part of the ancient history.

Exactly how many non-Hellinic sites mention the finds in Hellas like Dispilio, Nea Nikomedia, Frachti, Skopelos, Dimini, Sesclo.........of Neolithic and older dates, then do a simple search on how many promote the Black Athena joke.

Things may not be exactly as the author of the article presents nor is Davlos magazine one of the most objective sources but he does make some very good points.
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 16:11

Black Athena?


Afrocentrism BS.....




One of the most recent jokes is how they were thinking of making Hannibal Barca played by Denzel Wahsington. This is ridiculous and futhermore it's just sad. Sad that because some people dont have a legacy they try to steal that of others.

Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
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  Quote Apple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 17:47
I dont know if Unvited Nation is in fact so ignorant of academic accuracy, give the fact that there is a problem regarding to the site's credibility.

But, anyway, if it the report is official, I am highly against it. It was true that Hellenic civilization found its root from its neighbors in the South, but one can not then claimed that Ancient Greece was solely the product of the civilizations of Middle East. It distorts our history, and overweights some part parts of world over others. This kind of history results in biased and lost its neutrality.

About the controversial Black Athena, I found it as ridiculous as invention of gunpowder claimed by some racist European historians.

I think Africans should look at how Canadian Aboriginal people, who are proud of their cultures, and how their values have been integrated into Canadian mainstream cultures. It is true that Canadians speak English and French, but their political cultures are very different than that of Europe and of America
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 13:58
In a time when we know that a great deal of European genetic pool (all of it eventually if we go back to Paleolithic times) is of SW Asian origins I see no such big deal on the positions quoted by the author, though they seem kind of raw and biased to be from a serious historian.

It's obvious that Greece and the Aegean was colonized by successive waves of SW Asian colonists (as were in lesser degree large parts of the rest of Europe). Those peoples weren't Greek-speakers (most probably, there are some weird theories around) yet but they are the genetic base of historical and modern Greeks (or Hellenes if you prefer). Eventually Achaeans (Ionians, Myceneans) infiltrated in the country from an unknown source (some point it in Anatolia, others in the Balcans) bringing Greek language and a new historical phase to the region. Still all the "civilization" structures were there from before (Crete, Troy, Ezero) and it's also true that Greeks themselves accepted to have borrowed many culture and science from other sources (Egypt particularly). The merit of Greek civilization was not to have simply conquered/destroyed all that but having been able to recycle it. Giving birth to a new phase of cultural splendor that we are all owing to.

I don't think it's very constructive to pretend that pre-Achaean civilizations were less Greek or European than Achaean (Mycenian) and post-Achaean (classical Greek) ones. But it's obvious that those peoples, while being the largely the ancestors of ulterior Greeks, didn't spoke Greek. It's also obvious that Greece was a "bridge" between Asia and Europe and that all or most influences and migrations coming from SW Asia stopped in Greece first (this applies particularly to the Neolithic-Calcolithic-Early Bronze period).
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 15:33


Seems like I must have missed the part refering to Paleolithic migrations, anyway.

It's obvious that Greece and the Aegean was colonized by successive waves of SW Asian colonists

Obvious to whom and based on what research which facts?

J. Lawrence Angel studied skeletal material from the Paleolithic to modern times, and participated in examinations of skeletal material throughout the East Mediterranean. With respect to Greece, he found that the morphological types already established in the third millennium BC, if not before that, persisted in all subsequent ages. Thus, he emphasized the racial continuity of Greeks, stating epigrammatically :

Racial continuity in Greece is striking.

We find that a large number of Anthropologists agree to this conclusion, among them: Carleton S Coon, B. Gardner, S. Kimball, M. Titiev.......
Eventually Achaeans (Ionians, Myceneans) infiltrated in the country from an unknown source (some point it in Anatolia, others in the Balcans) bringing Greek language and a new historical phase to the region.

Isn't this convenient?
What does unknown source mean, based on what archeological finds and anthropological research can anyone support this, where was the Hellinic language used before it allegedly arrived to this area, who spoke it, why did the 'original' speakers 'migrate' to this area, how did they manage to influence the already existing population that is proven to have been large ?
These are just some of the many questions that such claims rise but unfortunately for the supporters of these theories, no one can answer them.

But it's obvious that those peoples, while being the largely the ancestors of ulterior Greeks, didn't spoke Greek.

I fail to see how anyone can support this when the Linear A inscriptions and those found in Dispilio (see topic in Archeologic news)  remain undeciphered.
Actually the theory about the Minoans and Myceneans was quite similar to what you state up to some decades ago.
Some 'historians' claimed that Linear B' is a totally alien language to Hellinic, and these people must have been connected to Hittites and Egypt. Unfortunately for them and their supporters, M. Ventris proved it otherwise and another theory is where it belongs, in a dumpster.
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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