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Christophoros Columbus: A Byzantine Prince from Chios, Greece

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Christophoros Columbus: A Byzantine Prince from Chios, Greece
    Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 12:12
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 12:22

I believe that this work was presented already at "Dodona" forum.

In any case, this theory is plausible but not probable...

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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 12:41
I have to also note that its also "laugh-able" , Kristophoros Kolomvos



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 15:24

Originally posted by baracuda

I have to also note that its also "laugh-able" , Kristophoros Kolomvos

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 16:04
It's an interesting theory. Out of all the dozens of theories about Columbus ethnic origin (apart from the Genoese of course), this is the most believable.

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 17:52
An interesting theory maybe, but I fail to see the significance.

So, Colombos may have been a Genose with possible Byzantine origins , but he was definitely in Spanish service when he undertook his fateful journey.
And this last factor had by far the most important implications for the further course of history, compared to which the question of his ethnic origins just fades into meaninglessness.

Apart from that, I'm usually very sceptical of claims like this, and the homepage of the website from which this article stems, doesn't exactly install confidence:

"To these globalist elites free-thinkers are anathema. They seek to render such people ignorant of their past, ashamed of their cultural heritage, abnormal in their sexual orientation, and guilt-ridden about their race. They want mindless drones obsessed with activities having to do with the satisfaction of the cravings of those parts of the anatomy located around and below the belly button.

We want these people to join us in this contest for the hearts and minds of the masses by using all legal means available to defeat the numerically insignificant but extremely powerful band of culture-annihilating merchants who would rule, enslave, or destroy us in the name of some nebulous "New World Order." A World Order that is the creation of the foibles, furies, and fantasies of self-serving, power-lusting madmen who are attempting to do to this planet what they can no longer do to their wives."


Anybody knows what they're on about?



http://www.grecoreport.com/index.html

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 18:59

It is a theory clarifying Columbus's identity, and only that.  Its significance lies in the means of solving the mystery of a renowned man.  The subject of his origins is a hot topic of debate regardless of its significance to you. 

Now why don't you address the author of the theory or its scholarship instead of the site that reviewed it?



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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 06:08
Originally posted by Xp FERENS

It is a theory clarifying Columbus's identity, and only that. Its significance lies in the means of solving the mystery of a renowned man. The subject of his origins is a hot topic of debate regardless of its significance to you.


Now why don't you address the author of the theory or its scholarship instead of the site that reviewed it?



I would be perfectly satisfied with the assumption that Columbus was the product of a Mediterranean, multi-ethnic culture that was prevailing amongst the Levantines, at a time when the modern concept of nationality was largely unknown.


As I have no means to verify the historical facts provided by the author, I can only critize her for being included in a project that promotes the alleged superiority of Greek culture over any other, and presents a paranoid conspiracy theory with xeno- and homophobic undertones.

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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 07:51
Next greek will be Sitting Bull. 
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...the rest are details."

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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 08:25
And will be disputed with the turks.
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...the rest are details."

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 09:27
haha Richard i wouldn't be surprised with Crazy Horse too.
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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 10:04
Im not argueing just clapping and laughing at the thought..
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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 10:14
Next will be Moulin Rouge 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 13:51

As I have no means to verify the historical facts provided by the author, I can only critize her for being included in a project that promotes the alleged superiority of Greek culture over any other, and presents a paranoid conspiracy theory with xeno- and homophobic undertones.

The author of the book died in 1999, nearly three years before that review was ever written and published in that site.



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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2005 at 16:13
well, there are also claims that Napoleon was Greek....
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 16:17
Well actually this theory, is connected to the Piri Reis map. (that depicted America and Antartica) A copy of 20 or so maps of Alexander the Great's  time.

So I guess, having read some other articles in that site, that they are aiming to prove some superior knowledge in ancient times obviously lost or well hidden today.

Not such a crazy theory when you think of it.


Edited by Phallanx
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 18:28
Originally posted by Phallanx

Well actually this theory, is connected to the Piri Reis map. (that depicted America and Antartica) A copy of 20 or so maps of Alexander the Great's  time.

So I guess, having read some other articles in that site, that they are aiming to prove some superior knowledge in ancient times obviously lost or well hidden today.

Not such a crazy theory when you think of it.


thats awesome! it could have been likely that the phoenicians have gone the the "new world" considering what exellent sailors they were. is it really proven though that these maps are from Alexanders time? and if they truly exist why aren't they popular?
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 19:41
Originally posted by Phallanx


Well actually this theory, is connected to the Piri Reis map. (that
depicted America and Antartica) A copy of 20 or so maps of Alexander
the Great's time.

So I guess, having read some other articles in that site, that they are
aiming to prove some superior knowledge in ancient times obviously lost
or well hidden today.

Not such a crazy theory when you think of it.



Yes it is a crazy theory, the Piri Reis map is based on Spanish and Portuguese maps (which is actually written on Reis's map) over already discovered areas. Antarctica is not included on the map.
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 20:03
Yes it is a crazy theory, the Piri Reis map is based on Spanish and Portuguese maps (which is actually written on Reis's map) over already discovered areas. Antarctica is not included on the map.


Well, I've seen many theories about it, others mention Alexander's maps, others Ptolemy's and some as you said Potuguese and Spanish maps.
As do the theories vary on what it depicts.
I happen to have the text of a letter from the US Air Force addressed to Prof. Charles H. Hapgood of Keene College dated Jul. 6th 1960 (don't really remember the source)

Dear Professor Hapgood,
Your request of evaluation of certain unusual features of the Piri Reis map of 1513 by this organization has been reviewed. The claim that the lower part of the map portrays the Princess Martha Coast of Queen Maud Land, Antarctic, and the Palmer Peninsular, is reasonable. We find that this is the most logical and in all probability the correct interpretation of the map.
The geographical detail shown in the lower part of the map agrees very remarkably with the results of the seismic profile made across the top of the ice-cap by the Swedish-British Antarctic Expedition of 1949. This indicates the coastline had been mapped before it was covered by the ice-cap.
The ice-cap in this region is now about a mile thick. We have no idea how the data on this map can be reconciled with the supposed state of geographical knowledge in 1513.

Harold Z. Ohlmeyer Lt. Colonel, USAF Commander

I would like to believe that they know what they're talking about but I'm open to other suggestions.






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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 17:24

The whacko map theories have been debunked so many times now that cartographers just roll their eyes and perhaps comment about the half life of half truths.  The links below also mention several books that are worthwhile - including Gergory McIntosh's The Piri Reis Map of 1513.  I couldn't find a link to the article he wrote for Mercator's World back in 2000.

The Ohlmeyer quote comes from - among other sources - Gavin Menzie's authoritative  discussion of the chinese exploration of the world in 1421.

Sean Mewhinney's article about the maps can be found here:
http://www.pibburns.com/smmia5.htm 
with an addendum here:
http://www.pibburns.com/smmia5a.htm

Paul Lunde's article form Aramco World Magazine - 1980 (yes - this has been going on that long)
http://www.millersv.edu/~columbus/data/art/LUNDE01.ART

A translation of Prof. Dr. Afetinan's original article on the Piri Reis Map (1950's):
 http://www.prep.mcneese.edu/engr/engr321/preis/afet/af et0.htm

Diego Cuoghi's pages here (there are links to english translations for those who don't like italian) (also good links to other sites):
 http://xoomer.virgilio.it/dicuoghi/Piri_Reis/PiriReis. htm

and Paul Heinrich's 1996 article on the Piri Reis map (also addresses the Ohlmeyer quote) :
http://www.intersurf.com/~chalcedony/FOG9.html

How does this nonsense live on?  People like Gavin Menzies are willing to perpetuate any half truth in order to fill their pockets and - as PT Barnum said - "there's one born every minute!"

In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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