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Topic ClosedThe worst genocide in modern history
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Poll Question: which one is the worst genocide of modern history
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
160 [21.92%]
150 [20.55%]
106 [14.52%]
16 [2.19%]
191 [26.16%]
107 [14.66%]
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Posts: 2800 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: The worst genocide in modern history
    Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 14:03
1. Name me one country (besides Turkey or Azerbaijan) who denies that an Armenian genocide took place.
 
There are plenty, England does and seen as though we were fighting the war and creating most of the war-time propoganda against the Ottomans add to that the fact we put the Ottomans on trial in Malta it makes it pretty significant, our archives state there was no genocide rather a tragedy for both people.
 
Then there is Israel, Bulgaria, Algeria etc.... the number will carry on growing as long as objective historians study the events without listening to any Armenian or Turkish exaggerated viewpoints.
 
The majority of material regarding the Armenian claims simply accept that a genocide occured without examming objectively if this claim is acceptable or looking into the wider picture, its totally subjective and written strictly from an exaggerated bias Armenian viewpoint as they provided most of the alleged details. Ofcourse this is entirely wrong as the entire thesis needs to be critically examined before such judgements are made, there is no point writting accepting somthing just because one side of the argument was first to invent a story.


Edited by Bulldog - 30-Jun-2006 at 14:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 02:47
Originally posted by Bulldog

1. Name me one country (besides Turkey or Azerbaijan) who denies that an Armenian genocide took place. 
 
United Kingdom...
 
You wanted one country. If you want i can tell much more... just want!Wink
 
 
A group of historians and scholars lent their names to the following statement, which appeared as an advertisement in The New York Times and The Washington Post on May 19, 1985.


Edited by Glenn - 01-Jul-2006 at 08:16
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Posts: 2200 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 02:59
United Kingdom doesn't deny...it just has not recognized, yet. France recognized the Genocide about 5 years ago, this this mean it was denying before? Thats a big leap, from denying to recognizing....let me help, here is a dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

and please, why dont you give more examples of countries that you think deny, I am so interested.

lol, tallarmeniantale.com....a very objective and informative source indeed LOL


Edited by mamikon - 01-Jul-2006 at 14:10
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Posts: 2347 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 03:12
Originally posted by mamikon

United Kingdom doesn't deny...it just has not recognized, yet. France recognized the Genocide about 5 years ago, this this mean it was denying before? Thats a big leap, from denying to recognizing....let me help, here is a dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

and please, why dont you give more examples of countries that you think deny, I am so interested.


First of all Turkey does not deny that Armenians have died on a massive scale, it simply does not acknowledge that these deaths constituted a planned Genocide.

The UK does not deny nor does it recognize the Armenian deaths as Genocide: and rightly so, as it is not the job of the UK parliament to make judgements on historical events.

On the other hand France and its parliamentarians, eager as they are to please their Armenian electorate, may make proclamations about their interpretation of the 1915 events, they may attempt to ban any discussion on the historical events, stifly counter-Genocide viewsm and try to shove the term Genocide down the throat of unsuspecting Europeans, but in any case this will not change the historical reality of what happened in 1915-20.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 03:24
Originally posted by mamikon

United Kingdom doesn't deny...it just has not recognized, yet. France recognized the Genocide about 5 years ago, this this mean it was denying before? Thats a big leap, from denying to recognizing....let me help, here is a dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

and please, why dont you give more examples of countries that you think deny, I am so interested.
 
 You wanted one country and i told :)) We know how recognized France, just political...Why France don't wanna talk about self crimes in Algeria?  When Algeria want apologize from France, they said ''it's historical subject, parliaments can't make decision about historical subjects'' But same parliament take decision about Armenians. is it not funny? 
 
Wanna more countries? okey :)   Japan, Egypt, Iran, South Korea, Algeria, Afghanistan, Andorra, Bangladesh, Cameroon, India, Israel, Jamaika, Kazakhstan, Libya, Philippines, Moldova, Pakistan, China...
 
wanna more? just tell please LOL
 
 
Algeria calls on France to admit 1945 massacres, By: Paul de Bendern on: 09.05.2005
http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/49411

Algerian Genocide: France still unable to apologize
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=31363

 


Edited by Glenn - 01-Jul-2006 at 08:23
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Posts: 63 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 07:44

 

 we should not forget what the spanish , english and portugues have done when they killed millians of the native americans in south in north of america. "red indians genocide".

 uyghurs and turks genocide in eastern turkistan"xinjiang".

 russians and the millians they have killed in north and central asia.
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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 12:04
     No one has answered my question....how do you apply the word "genocide" to other events while rejecting Dr. Lemkin's fundamental claim that what happened to the Armenians was genocide? You use his word but you reject his most basic claim in reference to that word...please explain how you do that, because it defies logic.

     Also, those countries you name do not deny the genocide, they just haven't passed a bill on it (partly because Turkey threatens everyone who wants to recognize it). I already told you guys to please differentiate between the countries that deny and the countries who haven't passed a bill, but I guess I was asking for too much.
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Posts: 2347 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 12:12
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

     No one has answered my question....how do you apply the word "genocide" to other events while rejecting Dr. Lemkin's fundamental claim that what happened to the Armenians was genocide? You use his word but you reject his most basic claim in reference to that word...please explain how you do that, because it defies logic.


That Dr Lemkin has used the word in reference to the Armenian deaths does not mean that Armenians have a patent on that word. If what happened to the Armenians was a genocide, so was what happened to the Muslims, for it was no different. The events of 1915 had a disproportionately heavier impact on the Armenian people because of their numerical inferiority. Does this mean that the Muslim deaths should be ignored and not mentioned simply because the effect on the Turkish nation was proportionally smaller? In my opinion every life should be equally valuable.


Edited by bg_turk - 01-Jul-2006 at 12:15
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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 12:59
     My whole point is, considering Dr. Lemkin created the word genocide, I don't think you can discard his examples of genocide if you're going to use his word to describe other events. Many people are doing that and it is beyond the bounds of logic.
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Posts: 2200 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 13:45
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

Also, those countries you name do not deny the genocide, they just haven't passed a bill on it (partly because Turkey threatens everyone who wants to recognize it). I already told you guys to please differentiate between the countries that deny and the countries who haven't passed a bill, but I guess I was asking for too much.


I was about to say that...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 03:29
Can i continue to say other countries? LOL
 
Do you think Turkey can threat to U.K.?  Big smile or others, how?
 
Lets see who is threating!!!
 

The Armenians have perfected the art of presenting their case to the exclusion of all others to a tee. When a historian comes along and dares to write the version of events countering their own, it becomes open season on that historian. On an Armenian web site, pages were devoted to Princeton Professor Heath Lowry, supporting what a person of ill-repute he is. UCLA Professor Stanford Shaw's house was actually bombed by Armenian extremists in the late 1970s. (In fact anyone who participates in putting Turks in a possibly good light is fair game... as in the case of Antonio Banderas, who was set to play Ataturk in a proposed motion picture; the actor got intimidated after receiving scores of threatening letters, mostly from members of the Greek-American community. As of this writing, the actor has signed up to appear in an Armenian-friendly movie, The Forty Days of Musa Dagh... if you can't fight 'em, join 'em!) (ADDENDUM: It appears this project has been shelved, likely thanks to the poor showing of the movie, "Ararat.")

As difficult as it is to have the Western public consider the truth of what really took place, already as brainwashed as the masses have been... imagine how much more difficult this task becomes when historians are in fear of getting their reputations sullied, or even of physical dangers. Read more here but don't forget to check mainly sources if you don't believe that site... Wink

 
-Banderas Quits Film Ataturk Film After Protests, By Stephen Kinzer, July 16, 1998 The New York Times
-The Trial of Bernard Lewis
-Professor Justin McCarthy comments on the case, and Armenian harassment directed against himself
-Professor Heath Lowry The media, always mindlessly on the side of pro-Armenians, were willing accomplices in this "gang up," and the university probably gave the professor a gag order, on the Armenian topic.
-ARMENIAN ATTACKS ON SAMUEL A. WEEMS
 
if you wanna more u know what will u do... just want please! Wink

 



Edited by Glenn - 03-Jul-2006 at 08:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 03:42
Originally posted by mamikon


lol, tallarmeniantale.com....a very objective and informative source indeed
 
 what about The New York Times and The Washington Post (on May 19, 1985)    Check mainly source Wink  
or would you like to different sources? just tell!! Big smile


Edited by Glenn - 02-Jul-2006 at 03:53
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Posts: 267 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 13:49
ARMENIAN GENOCDE IS NOTHING , YES NOTHING BUT A LIE.
 There was a conflict between Ottoman forces and Armenian militants of Dashnak or something like that.
Ottoman government which does never want to lose Eastern Anatolia made a decision of Relocation. During the conflicts Armenians killed thousands of Turks and Kurds,  and Kurds and Turks killed thousands of Armenians. So taking measures agaimst these deaths, and preventing country from losing a large territory, Ottomans started to relocate Armenians from Eastern Anatolia to Syria. Many Armenians figured up to 400, 000 in Ottoman archives was object to RELOCATION. And two third of these people are killed by hunger, thirst or diseases. Not by ottomans.
ottomans took necessary measures even against possible Turkish attacks to Armenians in the relocation route. There were some attacks in this route as well. Many died on the road. Both side. Armenians and Turks.
The only fault of Ottomans is that they did not provided enough water and food during the relocation.
And this made number of deaths high.
So
Local conflicts and fights caused deaths.
Hunger, Thirst and Diseases during relocation caused deaths.
Attacks to Armenians relocated caused deaths.
 
We Turks never deny these facts.
But it was bilateral.
Armenians killed many Turks in the region trying to cleanse the region from Muslims, both Turkish and Kurdish. It makes thousands of peoples killed by Armenians. Turkish governments have enough proof for that. Turkey has every detailed proof.
There was no systematical genocide towards Armenians. There was a relocation. Many died. But from both sides. The pain that both side feel is big. But the side which distorts and politicizes the facts is Armenian side in order to have claims on present time Turkish territory.
A claim of Armenian Genocide is just a political nonsense.
Thousands of both side died. That is not a genocide.
 
But Khojaly genoide is commited by Armenians towards Azerbaijan Turks recently.
If you pathetic and obsessive pro genocido-lie Armenians  look really for a Genocide, you must look first at the one conducted by you in 1991.
Everyone wants to know about khocaly  genocide, can go to Azerbaijani Genocide or Khojaly Genocide on google.
FACTS ARE FACT.
POLITICIANS AND PARLIAMENTAIRS SHOULD MAKE LAWS NOT HISTORY.
 


Edited by Tangriberdi - 06-Jul-2006 at 13:57
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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 14:45
Originally posted by Tangriberdi

But Khojaly genoide is commited by Armenians towards Azerbaijan Turks recently.


     I have always stated on these forums that I believe the Khojaly massacres took place. However, if the aim of the Armenian forces was to kill all Azeris (which is what genocide means), there would be many more civilians killed than just 613. Especially when you consider that Azeris had to go cross Armenian-inhabited lands to flee to Azerbaijan. 613 dead, and around 750,000 living refugees....thats not genocide. If the refugees didn't survive, thats a different story.

     It stuns me how you call the murder of 613 people "genocide", then turn around and say that over 1 million killed is not genocide. Your claims are absurd, you're not trying to be objective, you're simply trying to save the reputation of your people (rightfully so, but you're doing it in the wrong way). I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post, because you're obviously not going to read it, considering you're saying things like this:

Originally posted by Tangriberdi

If you pathetic and obsessive pro genocido-lie Armenians  look really for a Genocide, you must look first at the one conducted by you in 1991.


     Not a good way to make a point.


@Glenn....you're not proving anything. I can list all the instances where fanatic Turks have bombed publishing houses which print books about WW1 in Turkey. It doesn't prove anything except that all people have their extremists, Armenians and Turks included.


Edited by ArmenianSurvival - 06-Jul-2006 at 14:48
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Posts: 267 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 15:45
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival


Originally posted by Tangriberdi

If you pathetic and obsessive pro genocido-lie Armenians  look really for a Genocide, you must look first at the one conducted by you in 1991.


     Not a good way to make a point.
What do you recommend to make a point. But your lie construct information makes such a point that some parliaments recognize your lies as a historical fact, which is forbidden to be debated and discussed and argued by even historians.
 
I have some lack of information about Khojaly things. But if you find yourselves entitled to call 1910-1919 events as a genocide, then let me call Khojaly events whatever I'd like.
 
Stop parliaments writing a lie history. Bring your all documents, not the fake ones. We'll bring ours too. Then historians all around the world will be arbitrators. Without any consideration of politics, just the historical facts will speak. Then a new history is written.
Not political lies like you do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 17:01
May I remind everyone here of the following:
Blacklisted topics:
1.   Cyprus ( with regards to the Greek/Turkish conflict)
2.   Armenian genocide
3.   Kurdish/Turkish relationships
4.   FYR Macedonia [

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10675&FID=45&PR=3


Edited by Mixcoatl - 06-Jul-2006 at 17:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 01:29
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival


@Glenn....you're not proving anything. I can list all the instances where fanatic Turks have bombed publishing houses which print books about WW1 in Turkey. It doesn't prove anything except that all people have their extremists, Armenians and Turks included.
 
You wanted a country name and i counted many countries, as i said before i can continue if you want.
 
My wrotes prooving my claims because these are not LIE! You can see reliable sources as i wrote. Please send also your list and show us with reliable sources like me. Even my samples were showing threating to foreign historians, researches, even artists like Banderas. I can continue send other lists, you know what will you do. Just want please!
 
Even i didn't talk yet about Armenian Terror against to Turkish diplomats and counsellors but truths are disturbing you so much.
 
Lets remember a Turkish citizen of Armenian descent how protest of the Armenian terrorists (ASALA) attacks.  This is his last words before die. You can read and watch video.
 
 
The letter of Artin Penik who burnt himself in order to protest against Armenian Terrorism which points to Turkey:

We hereby present the letter of Artin Penik, our Armenian Citizen, who committed suicide by burning himself in Taksim Square in Istanbul on 10 August 1982 in order to protest Armenian Terrorism against Turkey.This utterly meaningful suicide caused immense sorrow and turmoil in our hearts.

LETTER OF ARTIN PENIK

I am protesting in the name of the Patriarch and all Turkish Armenians, and burning myself.

You, ASALA murderers! Nothing can be done by killing innocent people. You are deceived by the imperialists. History is told very wrong to you. Hundreds of thousands of people disappeared by the trick of imperialists. Use your mind! They are misleading you. Now, there are some thousands of Armenians living here and there. Do you intend to abolish them, too? But you will never manage to do that. We want to continue our way of life that we are leading fraternally together with Turkish people.

But if you go on killing innocent people without mercy, I swear in the name of God that you will all be exterminated. Use your mind! As far as we know, Armenians are brave and never kill innocent people from behind. We never regard you as Armenians. We are cursing you. You, the former president of France, Giscard D'Estaing, all Armenians are cursing you.

If you had not disregarded their actions to get their votes, they would not have been so arrogant. I have many more things to write, but I find no reason to do it. When necessary, the Turkish Nation will punish you. I wish God bless those who have lost their lives up to now, and patience to their relatives. May God give patience to my Turkish Citizens.

'Bye.

Artin PENIK

http://www.anarmenianmyth.com/peacefulcoexisting.htm


Edited by Glenn - 07-Jul-2006 at 05:19
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 Bosnian Genocide is the worst one!
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Hurriyet is a stupid newspaper.
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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 15:27
     Glenn, you're completely missing my point, because you're just posting more of the same things. Anyways, I forgot the topic was blacklisted, so if you want to continue this just do it via PM.
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