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Mongol Armor?

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  Quote Animal Weretiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mongol Armor?
    Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 09:11
Hiya. I am very interested in the armor worn by the Mongols during the early 1200's and up. However I am having a hard time finding pictures of such. I was wondering if anyone had pictures they'd be willing to post or post links to. Thank you very much!
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  Quote TJK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 10:09

Look " Arms and Armour of the Nomads of the Great Steppe in the Times of the Mongol Expansion"
by Witold witosawski

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/838587402X/quickclick0 4-20/701-4882081-8378752

or

Osprey's " The Mongols" by Stephen Turnbull

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0850453720/qid=1118325 936/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/701-4882081-8378752

 

Mongolian heavy cavalrymen

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  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 12:48

Here are two paintings of Mongol Cavalry:

Mongol Cavalryman

Mongol Cavalry in battle

 



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  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 12:54

Here are videocaps from the television series "Genghis Khan."  Before anyone would argue that the series is inaccurate (inaccuracies are unavoidable), I would like to point out that it was filmed in Inner Mongolia and most of the actors (including the actor who played Genghis Khan) were Mongols.  The producers and directors tried to portray 13th century Mongolia as accurately as possible given the available historical texts and sources.

It is of interest to note that the series "Genghis Khan" was released five years after production, after undergoing strenous scrutiny and revision because of the controversial ethnic and religious issues that arised after 9-11 and the War in Iraq.

Genghis Khan

Genghis Khan with his helmet

Genghis Khan's first wife Borte, mother of Jochi, Chagatai, Ogedei, and Toulei

Mongol war camp

Genghis Khan with his camp

Genghis Khan with his generals (the second general from the right is Subutai)

Genghis Khan on horseback



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  Quote Animal Weretiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 13:42
Wow. THose are excellent pictures! Thank you for taking the trouble to post them. I am aware of the Osprey books and I have both of the mongol titles.
I'm very impressed by this movie. Do you know if it's available in the states?
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  Quote tubo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2005 at 06:19
hehehe gengis looks like my dad.exact coopy for gods sake.lol....that is when he was 15 years younger.
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  Quote perdon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 00:50
mogols are like this? I think they look like chinese!!!
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  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 01:43

Originally posted by perdon

mogols are like this? I think they look like chinese!!!

These are real Mongols.  The actor for Genghis Khan is an ethnic Mongol.  So is the actress for Genghis Khan's first wife Borte.  These are not Chinese.  I repeat, they are real Mongols.



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  Quote Animal Weretiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 21:34
Originally posted by perdon

mogols are like this? I think they look like chinese!!!


I think they're beautiful.
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  Quote Snafu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 22:50

According to the book "The Devil's horsemen: the Mongol invasion of Europe" the standard Mongol "uniform" consisted of several layers. The bottom layer was a pair of blue or gray trousers and a silk shirt (silk winds around an arrowhead as it penetrates, making it easier to pull the arrows out later). Next was a brown or blue felt robe. Colored trim on the cuffs, borders and collars of these robes indicated rank--officers got silver or gold trim, all others got red or blue trim. In winter, when these robes were lined with fur and the trim was hidden, different types of fur were used to indicate rank. Heavy cavalry riders wore over this a coat of mail and a cuirass of iron or hard leather scales. On their heads they wore cone-shaped iron helmets with thick leather neck-curtains that could be fastened in front to guard the throat. Light cavalry riders wore a cuirass of laquered leather strips or sometimes just a heavy padded robe. On their heads they wore either hard leather helmets or traditional fur-trimmed Mongol caps. Heavy and light cavalry riders were both required to carry a wicker shield covered in thick leather, two bows (long and short range), at least two quivers, a lasso, and a dagger strapped to the left forearm. Light cavalry riders carried short swords while heavy cavalry carried Mongol scimitars. Heavy cavalry riders also carried a battle axe or mace and a 12 foot hooked spear. Costumes differed slightly from tribe to tribe, so there were many different variations of armor. This is just the general style.

Here's a great site about the armor of steppe people.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505/

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  Quote perdon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 00:11

Originally posted by Animal Weretiger


I think they're beautiful.

beautiful???ok!!!!

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  Quote kermit_criminal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 07:05
Originally posted by perdon

Originally posted by Animal Weretiger


I think they're beautiful.

beautiful???ok!!!!

you must still be 16 years old 

uzbeks

 



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  Quote kermit_criminal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 07:12

the only thing about the tv series i dont like based on the pictures is that it looks like all of the actors are old, im sure most of the mongol army was younger then portrayed in those images, maybe in their 20's and early 30's. the men in those photos are late 30's and 40's, thus not as handsome as they could be haha

when and where is the tv series ghengis khan aired? in the US?

 

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  Quote Animal Weretiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 08:56
Perdon I've read your posts on other threads and it seems you have problems. I didnt start this thread to have those problems here. Please refrain from hijacking this thread. It's supposed to be about Mongolian armor, not your personal dislikes.
Thank you.
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  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 12:46
Originally posted by kermit_criminal

the only thing about the tv series i dont like based on the pictures is that it looks like all of the actors are old, im sure most of the mongol army was younger then portrayed in those images, maybe in their 20's and early 30's. the men in those photos are late 30's and 40's, thus not as handsome as they could be haha

when and where is the tv series ghengis khan aired? in the US?

 

 

Genghis Khan is not a young warrior.  His greatest accomplishments came after the age of 40.  According to Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, most of the commanding Mongol generals during Genghis Khan's campaigns were approaching their forties.  Subutai, Muquali, Jebe, Borrchu, and Jelieme were all past their forties by the time Genghis Khan, at the age of 57, decided to campagin against Khawarism.  It is also worth mentioning that the famed Subutai joined the Mongol campaign against Europe in the 1230s and early 1240s when he was approaching the age of 70!!!!!

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  Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 16:42
Originally posted by poirot

Originally posted by kermit_criminal

the only thing about the tv series i dont like based on the pictures is that it looks like all of the actors are old, im sure most of the mongol army was younger then portrayed in those images, maybe in their 20's and early 30's. the men in those photos are late 30's and 40's, thus not as handsome as they could be haha

when and where is the tv series ghengis khan aired? in the US?

 

 

Genghis Khan is not a young warrior.  His greatest accomplishments came after the age of 40.  According to Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, most of the commanding Mongol generals during Genghis Khan's campaigns were approaching their forties.  Subutai, Muquali, Jebe, Borrchu, and Jelieme were all past their forties by the time Genghis Khan, at the age of 57, decided to campagin against Khawarism.  It is also worth mentioning that the famed Subutai joined the Mongol campaign against Europe in the 1230s and early 1240s when he was approaching the age of 70!!!!!


aaaaa, sorry, you are talking about the generals and commanders, not about soldiers/warriors. In almost all wars the general were old men and the soldiers between 16 to 30s...
Are you are really beliving that Temujin fought in battles being 40 years old? It's impossible

I think, as someone before said, that some characters are a bit too old.
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  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 17:08
Originally posted by Drunt Ba'adur

Originally posted by poirot

Originally posted by kermit_criminal

the only thing about the tv series i dont like based on the pictures is that it looks like all of the actors are old, im sure most of the mongol army was younger then portrayed in those images, maybe in their 20's and early 30's. the men in those photos are late 30's and 40's, thus not as handsome as they could be haha

when and where is the tv series ghengis khan aired? in the US?

 

 

Genghis Khan is not a young warrior.  His greatest accomplishments came after the age of 40.  According to Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, most of the commanding Mongol generals during Genghis Khan's campaigns were approaching their forties.  Subutai, Muquali, Jebe, Borrchu, and Jelieme were all past their forties by the time Genghis Khan, at the age of 57, decided to campagin against Khawarism.  It is also worth mentioning that the famed Subutai joined the Mongol campaign against Europe in the 1230s and early 1240s when he was approaching the age of 70!!!!!


aaaaa, sorry, you are talking about the generals and commanders, not about soldiers/warriors. In almost all wars the general were old men and the soldiers between 16 to 30s...
Are you are really beliving that Temujin fought in battles being 40 years old? It's impossible

I think, as someone before said, that some characters are a bit too old.

Yes, I am talking about the generals and commanders.  Temujin did not fight in most of his later battles, only commanded them, that is true.  Nevertheless, in the age of iron weapons, situations in which generals must take personal combat in battles were unavoidable.  And to counter your view that most generals are old men, I point to Alexander the Great.  However, it is true that most Mongol generals under the command of Genghis Khan were veterans in their middle age.

As to your viewpoint of the characters being too old, the characters shown all play generals, commanders, and administrators, not soldiers.  And Genghis Khan does not stay young throughout his entire life.  Not many historical characters are as handsome and cleanshaven as Brad Pitt.



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  Quote Animal Weretiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 17:54
No, I dont think a 70 year old man was out in front of the heavy cavalry leading the charge. I do believe that Ghengis Khan would be back watching the battle and giving commands. However, one didnt stop fighting just because you hit 30. I'm almost 40 and I'm still at it. Granted not as fast as I once was but still a factor.
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  Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 19:44

edited



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  Quote cliveersknell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 01:32
Hi Poirot,
Happy to know you watched the miniseries. Please give me your personal feedback on it.

brgds
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