Who are the Croats?

u dont understand this is nationalisitic b/s aimed at supporting a sick idea of supperiority and claims to lands never owned

Here's another map of Serbo-Croatian dialects:

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/540/langdial/serbcrot.ht ml

Originally posted by ill_teknique Originally posted by Iskender Bey ALBO Proto-Croatians I believe were an Iranian people. However much of todays Croats, Serbs and Bosnians(muslim serbs) are more or less slavinized Illyrians with many slavic traits. Or so some say. General belief is that both were a people that settled in the Balkans during the slavic invasion. Bosnians are bosnians slavs not muslim serbs and point two this guy is a cetnik ultra nationalist whose thread should not be even considered serious enough to post please close this thread. and iks. please no more misinformation on bosnian identity im bosnian i think i know better than any nonbosnian what i am.

Bosnians are the croats, bosnia is just one of the croatian regions. Bosnian muslims are the croats of islamic religion. Bosnian serbs are in 90 % croats who in the ottoman period from 15 to 19 century rather converted to ortodox than in muslim religion so they automatically became serbians.

and emir please , are you still living in some kind of SFRJ ? Did Tito and communists brainwashed you from 1945 to 1990 ?

Originally posted by hrwatman Bosnians are the croats, bosnia is just one of the croatian regions. Bosnian muslims are the croats of islamic religion. Bosnian serbs are in 90 % croats who in the ottoman period from 15 to 19 century rather converted to ortodox than in muslim religion so they automatically became serbians.

That's not true either. Bosnian Muslims are basically descendants of Bosnian Bogomils that converted to Islam after being prosecuted by other Christians. There was a Bosnian kingdom in the Middle ages as well (though I'm not sure how much they are related).

Regarding Serbs of Krajina, now expelled, they were placed there by the Austrians, looking to create a military frontier against the Ottomans and they were probably Serbs or Bosnian Orthodox of origin.

To any outsider the ethnic confrontation between Serbs, Croats and Muslim Bosnians is a nonsense, as they all speak the same language... but it seems that you have taken very seriously those religious differences, despite having 40 or 50 years of secular state.

Originally posted by hrwatman Originally posted by ill_teknique Originally posted by Iskender Bey ALBO Proto-Croatians I believe were an Iranian people. However much of todays Croats, Serbs and Bosnians(muslim serbs) are more or less slavinized Illyrians with many slavic traits. Or so some say. General belief is that both were a people that settled in the Balkans during the slavic invasion. Bosnians are bosnians slavs not muslim serbs and point two this guy is a cetnik ultra nationalist whose thread should not be even considered serious enough to post please close this thread. and iks. please no more misinformation on bosnian identity im bosnian i think i know better than any nonbosnian what i am. Bosnians are the croats, bosnia is just one of the croatian regions. Bosnian muslims are the croats of islamic religion. Bosnian serbs are in 90 % croats who in the ottoman period from 15 to 19 century rather converted to ortodox than in muslim religion so they automatically became serbians. and emir please , are you still living in some kind of SFRJ ? Did Tito and communists brainwashed you from 1945 to 1990 ?

ok this gentleman right here has his brain clouded by 19th century fervor and ultra nationalism


Let me tell you a story hrwatman


On the Bosnians :

There once upon a time in the 500s was such a thing called the Slavic Invasions of the Balkans.  The slavs came in hundreds of different groups and tribal allegiances.  Now by 700 ONE and ONE croat and serbian tribe entered NOW MIND YOU THESWE WERE TWO THEN OUT OF HUNDREDS not the whole population of either region.  they mingled with the other slav tribes and were under the sphere of influence of the avar confederation until their power waned.  By the 700s these slavic people started centralising and forming duchies and counties.  These counties eventually led to the creation of the kingdom of Croatia by 900,  The duchy of Bosnia was formed in 700, and the kingdom of SErbia around the 900s too.  Now the Kingdom of Croatia got annexed by Hungary around 1100, the duchy of Bosnia fell under the sphere of influence of the Hungarian instead of the Byzantines as it had and then fell into the byzantine spehere once again before 1180.  Now by 1180 a duke by the name of ban Kulin, a bosnian ban, became the first king by overthrowing both sides influence on his duchy and formed the kingdom of bosnia.  Now this kingdom lasted untill 1463 the longest of all three because serbia fell to the ottomans at the battleo of kosovo polje in 1389.  they were assisted in the battle by the Bosnian King Tvrtko Kotromanic the great, who himself send a huge part of his army to assist the king of serbia along side the hungarians and i belive some romanian duchies.   Now by 1463 due to  weakend stance after the battle Bosnia fell to the Kotrmonic dynasty ended and the pashdom of Bosnia was created.  Now this pashdom was considered the most important in the region by the sultan so he added croatia and parts of serbia to its administravive circle.

On Bosnian idendity"

The slavs in Bosnia or Bosnian were adherents in majority to the INDEPENDENT BOSNIAN CHURCH. yes such a thing existed in the middle ages in the heyday of the latin church which undoubtetly would have squashed such a church if it could.  The adherents were called Krstjani and the kings were adherents too unofficaialy to a large part.  Now the church was never officially recognized by the kings for political and diplomatic reasons such as keeping up the facade of Bosnian kings being latin christians to keep back channels open with the pope to counter the hungarian threat.  Once the bogomils came they got a huge following.  Now these two groups converted enmasse. the catholics and otrhodox bosnians in smaller numbers.  a

Now this idea of a bosnian serb or bosnian croat did not exist at this time they were bosnians and the croatian were in coratia and the serbians in serbia. but 19th ct nationalism spread and was thought to peasants who felt allegiance to croatia or serbia according to religion.  Now this is why bosnian nationalism  failed when it was  started by the austrian govt.

on the bosnian language

the bosnian language was the purest dialect of  three  even  considered by croatian writers who said they spoke  bosnian  instead of  dalmatian  which was  influenced by italian.  The bosnian  dialect stayed unchaged because of the high tolerance by ottomans  towards local culture.  when coratia was lost to austria and italy they were not in this cricle anymore.  Now by 1878 austria took over bosnia and by the 20th jugoslavija was formed and the bosnian identity was practially underground.  they categorized bosnians as either serbs croats or converted croats or serbs.  this and the fact that the bosnian language was taken out of circulation and schools taught "serbo_croatian"  same happened under comunism and by 1992 bosnia declared independence and still there are two large minorites who claim croatian or serbian nationality and usually have almost no one in their family that is actually from that country there are in bosnia now four religions for bosnian, (bosnian muslim, bosnian catholic, bosnian, serb, and bosnian jew) and two minorites (bosnian serb and bosnian croat) because a lot of nonmuslims and non jews claim bosnian nationality and have for  a while

Originally posted by hrwatman  And please I dont have nothing against serbians , but this guy Sanimideg made some insults here and dissrespecting croats ,  those pics he posted on this topic he made me angry so my duty was to respond him

Sanimedeg was banned already months ago.

Originally posted by ill_teknique Now by 1180 a duke by the name of ban Kulin, a bosnian ban, became the first king by overthrowing both sides influence on his duchy and formed the kingdom of bosnia.  Now this kingdom lasted untill 1463 the longest of all three because serbia fell to the ottomans at the battleo of kosovo polje in 1389.  they were assisted in the battle by the Bosnian King Tvrtko Kotromanic the great, who himself send a huge part of his army to assist the king of serbia along side the hungarians and i belive some romanian duchies.   Now by 1463 due to  weakend stance after the battle Bosnia fell to the Kotrmonic dynasty ended and the pashdom of Bosnia was created.

In 1471 a new Kingdom of Bosnia formed under Hungarian sovereignty on the remaining territory. Mikl�s �jlaki the ban of Slavonia and Macs� became the king, but after his death his kingdom ceased to exist.

 

Originally posted by hrvatman bullsh*ts, this is nothing but pan-turkish attempt, attempt to upgrade iranic origin on turkish origin, iranic theory about origin of croats is offically accepted since the croatia became independent, and today kids in school learn that croats are of iranic origin

Still Croats, Serbs and Bosnians all are of Slavic origin. Where does that fancy theory of Iranian origin of Croatians come from? It stinks to neo-Nazi stuff and I'm quite surprised/disappointed that it's oficial teaching in Croat schools. It seems to me that you haven't learned enough from the evils of such a stupid and fraticidal war as was the Balcanic conflict.

Originally posted by Komnenos Originally posted by hrwatman iranic theory about origin of croats is offically accepted since the croatia became independent, and today kids in school learn that croats are of iranic origin Sorry, it must be true then. At least as true as the theory about the origins and importance of the German race as taught in German schools in the 30s and 40s. Of course, the theory about the Turkic origins of the Croats is at its best wishful thinking, but has as much credibility than the legends of the Iranian origin. Give me a month and with a bit of fanciful interpreting of obscure historical documents, I could prove to you that the Croats are the descendant of a lost Zulu tribe.

Or for that matter, another mythical Mormon "tribe" or better yet, the "lost tribe" of Israel.......that would twist around the Croatian Ustache. 

Edited by pikeshot1600

Originally posted by Maju Originally posted by hrvatman bullsh*ts, this is nothing but pan-turkish attempt, attempt to upgrade iranic origin on turkish origin, iranic theory about origin of croats is offically accepted since the croatia became independent, and today kids in school learn that croats are of iranic origin Still Croats, Serbs and Bosnians all are of Slavic origin. Where does that fancy theory of Iranian origin of Croatians come from? It stinks to neo-Nazi stuff and I'm quite surprised/disappointed that it's oficial teaching in Croat schools. It seems to me that you haven't learned enough from the evils of such a stupid and fraticidal war as was the Balcanic conflict.

well than tell me what makes croats of slavic origin. oh yes you will say their language NOW is slavicophonic.

oh yes by your theory the jamaicans are of english origin because they speak english language and all have english names and surnames, right ?

the iranic theory of origin of croats is only legitimine theory about origin of croats, and i will tell you it started at 1798 about tracing of iranian origin of croats

now please , visit those links down

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/identity_croatia ns_ancient_iran.php

www.hindunet.org/saraswati/croats2.PDF

www.hindunet.org/saraswati/croats1.PDF