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Three Moons

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  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Three Moons
    Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 06:18

Turks often in their history have had flags with three moons, both cresent and full moon. But what is so special about three moons?

Flag of the Timur (Tamerlane) Empire

Flag of MHP, White version with with red moons TRNC's party linked with MHP. Green back round with white cresents used by the Ottomans.

The above kaftans all depict images of three moons.

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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 06:53
For Turkish flags the only thing I know is that its colour tells the location of the people.. like north,east,south,west

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 09:10

Yes, that is right. Have a look at that:

The TURKISH CRESCENT and STAR

 There are many imitators, but they are just that... Due to the 1,000 year fight of Muslim Turk and Christian Europe, the symbols have come to be mistakingly representative of Islam by Europeans and now the world. The Crescent Moon and Star (Sun during the Ottoman Empire) are ancient Turkish celestial symbols of power originating from the Turkish, ancestoral lands of Siberia and Central Asia.

 Its origins are not Arabic or Persian and it can not be Islamic due to the strict, religious doctrines forbiding the usage of any symbols or the painting/drawing/sclupting of human faces... these very important religious facts are disregarded today by those trying to claim the Moon & Star as their own today.

Needless to say, the origins of the Crescent & Sun/star are in fact Turkish from ancient times, pre-Islamic. The Turks believed in Shamanisim and more importantly the one supreme Sky God (Tanri) along side others gods like that of the Moon & Sun, when they roamed nomadicaly on horseback in the steppes of Siberia & central Asia.

In the 10th century, the Turks accepted Islam on their own will and conquered the Middle East. Witin a few centuries, the Turks became extremely powerful and strected an empire from the gates of Vienna, Austria, Russia all the way to Spain in the west. They brought into Islam their own free spirit, dynamizm, Turkish culture, superstitions and serious beliefs as well. This is the origin of how the Crescent Moon & Star came into the Islamic world.

 The importance of the celestial bodies can be seen in many Turk epics, poems, songs, names etc... One quick example is that of the legendary leader of the Western Turks, Oguz Khan, named his first 3 born Sun, Moon, & Star emphasizing the importance of the celestial objects to Turks. The founder of the Ottoman Turkish empire, Osman, had a dream in which he invisioned a Crescent Moon stretching over the Earth, he took it as a good sign and made it the symbol of his dynasty. Where ever a Turkish army met with a Euro-Christian one, of course it would be seen that the Turks used a Moon and Europeans assumed that this was the symbol of Islam used by muslim people. [this was wrong of course, as I said no symbols are allowed, but Turks quite often incorporated their own beliefs and free spirit regarding the religion]

 So, over the 1,000 year fight of Muslim Turk and Christian Europe, the symbols have come to be mistakingly representative of Islam by Europeans and now the world. The Crescent Moon and Star are ancient Turkish celestial symbols of power originating from the Turkish, ancestoral lands of Siberia and Central Asia. You see for a 1000 years Turks were the warriors, the leaders of Islam so it is not unusual that our symbols have been adopted by many present-day countries that are by a majority muslim. But it doesn't mean that the symbols are Islamic or muslim. Unfortunately, this confusion will most likely never be cleared up. It is very deep in the minds of the world, even the Muslim world.

Interesting note: The representative color of all Turks in the world is Skyblue or Turquiose, but we have also ascribed color to the four cardinal directions (North=Black, East=SkyBlue, South=White, & West=Red). Therefore, the Red background is used to indicate that we are the most geographically western of our family. (Over time and among the folk, the color has also come to represent the Turkish blood shed over the centuries of warfare.)

And dont forget, the crescent symbol was only used on "Shaman Otagi"s and it symbolizes the only power, the right power of authority.  Maybe the three stars were used for the Ottoman authority on three continents (Asia, Africa, Europe). We see the same crescent symbols both in ancient Turkic and Persian figures...

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 09:13
And today, none of the Arabic countries use those symbols, except algeria and Tunusia, which are heavily influenced with Turkish civilization. No heavy Islamic states use those symbols. After the revolution in Iran, even the usage of classical Persian symbol of "sun" was forbidden because of Islamic rules...
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 22:46

Timurs Empires flag you posted up there with the three white circles and blue background, I have heard that noone really knows for sure that those are Moons.  Noone knows for sure what they are at all, if I'm wrong I'm thinking about another Turkish flag, but I think this is the one.

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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 00:16
Actually I always belived that the symbol of cresent and star in the flag shows of turkish occupation for non-turkish countries... example.. moldovia.. (look into the emblem.. you'll see the ottoman flag although they might claim it to be Dacian), Tunis.. well it also was under ottoman rule

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  Quote Midas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 09:59
Yes but it was not Turkish flag. Symbol with cresent and star had taken from Byzantines after the conquest of Istanbul and they took it from older Anatolians. And in Ottoman rule moon become the symbol of Islam; but it's just because they ruled all muslims and it was their flag.
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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 11:51
Originally posted by Midas

Yes but it was not Turkish flag. Symbol with cresent and star had taken from Byzantines after the conquest of Istanbul and they took it from older Anatolians. And in Ottoman rule moon become the symbol of Islam; but it's just because they ruled all muslims and it was their flag.


You are wrong its been in the turkish flag and belief system much before takeover of istanbul.

here are a few from around the area and time of the ottomans, there are more..

Gazneli State (969-1187)

Golden Horde State (...-...)

Timur empire (....-....)
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 15:18
The cresent and star have been a symbol for Turks way before we even adopted Islam.
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  Quote Midas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 04:14
But cresent and star over red flag was used by Byzantines also and it was the flag of Asia Province of Roman Empire (Today, Aegean Coast).
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 10:52
I never heard of this, if they used it first then this is all just a coincidence.  We put the cresent and start over the red color because not only is the cresent and star an old Turkish symbol but the color red symbolizes west.  Meaning, Turkey is the most western Turkish land.  Same for East Turkistan, they have the same flag but with a blue back, blue meaning east.
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  Quote Midas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2005 at 05:32
In old Turkish; west is 'AK' means white... 'AL' means red is south... Color red has many stories... Some says; 'because Anatolians fought so much in the history'... Some says;' because sun rises from Anatolia in red' Also word 'Anatolia' comes from Greek word 'Anatoli' which means 'the place, where the sun rises'
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2005 at 15:59

Originally posted by Midas

In old Turkish; west is 'AK' means white... 'AL' means red is south... Color red has many stories... Some says; 'because Anatolians fought so much in the history'... Some says;' because sun rises from Anatolia in red' Also word 'Anatolia' comes from Greek word 'Anatoli' which means 'the place, where the sun rises'

Colors definately symbolize the location of Turks. We needed such symbolizm because we were nomads, we didnt have a specific location nor homeland. Blue symbolizes east, eastern Turks, Turkish origins. The same way, Red symbolizes west, western Turks, new homelands etc. Black symbolizes north and white symbolizes south (ex: Ak Huns, southern Huns). This is why Ottomans used the red color in their flag, and we still use it. Also, we still call Mediterrannean as "Ak Deniz/Tenghiz", the White Sea, symbolizing southern sea. And we gave the name of Black Sea (Kara Deniz/Tenghiz). It is like in Ak Koyunlu and Kara Koyunlu...

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2005 at 16:13
no. black means north, red means south, blue and white mean west and east. black sea is namend black sea from Russias POV, the sea in their north is called white sea.
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2005 at 18:29

Originally posted by Temujin

no. black means north, red means south, blue and white mean west and east. black sea is namend black sea from Russias POV, the sea in their north is called white sea.

Temujin, you are wrong.  White=south, black=north, red=west, blue=east.

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2005 at 19:12
no you are wrong, this is the Scythian battle formation: avanguard = black, left wing = white, right wing = blue and rearguard = red.
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