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Assassins

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TMPikachu View Drop Down
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  Quote TMPikachu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Assassins
    Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 15:13
unconquorable? Poo! The Mongols systematically destroyed every 'unconquorable' Eagle's Nest and pretty much destroyed the organization of the Hashashin
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 01:05

yes i did do that, mongolians had the best orginization, trust, strategy and self sufficiencey by far of any army that ever lived including modern ones today.

 

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  Quote pytheas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 23:03

Also reference the name "The Old Man of The Mountain" regarding their leader.  This a name given to whomever ruled the citadel at Alamut in the Elburtz Mountains of what is now Iran.  A few books I recommend on the subject that can definitely fall into the topical category of either Islamic history AND Medieval history, seeing as how the crusades were one of the fundamental institutions that shaped the period in question, not to mention modern events.  All one has to do is recall President Bush's uttering the word "crusade" in one his speaches early in the War on Terrorism.  How many Muslims probably shuddered in cultural memory of the crusades and the historical conotations to the use of the word to describe what the U.S was apparently embarking on?  We are the recipiants of a long tradition, Muslim and Christian alike of extremisms.  The Crusaders and the Assassins were two examples of that extremism.  Please reference the below listed books for further information on the Crusades and the Assassins.

1. Riley-Smith, J.  The Oxford illustrated History of the Crusades.  Oxford University Press, 2001 ed.  (Also see this author's other publications on the subject).

2.  Lewis, B.  The Assassins .  Basic Books, 1967 (2003 ed.).

3. Maalouf, A.  The Crusades Through Arab Eyes.  Schocken Books, 1985.

Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2005 at 11:22
Originally posted by Imperator Invictus

What was the political relation between the Assasins and neighbooring states? If they conducted so much terror I find it hard to believe they were not conquered before the Mongols.


Believe me Imperator they tried! But as the above example posted by Berosus shows it wasent so easy and the Assassins survived most of the time by staying one step ahead of their enemies.

Even the great Salahuddin set out to destroy them (twice) but gave up after he saw and understood Alamut and power these Hashish-smokers wielded.

btw this is a really cool thread... everyone chipping in a little bits and bobs they know about this group that has been shrouded in mystery.

just to add... Even though the Mongols under Halaku eventually suceeded in penetrating Alamut (long after Hasan-i-Sabbahs death) the Syrian branch of the Order still survived. That was eventually destroyed by the Mamluke Prince, Sultan Baybars who also defeated the Mongols. But still the Hashashin were not completely finished, infact a descendant of the great Hasan-i-Sabbah (founder and leader of the Assassins) still known today as the 'Aga Khan Dynasty'. Ofcourse the Aga Khans are no longer Assassins, infact they are known to have a long history of friendship with the British Government and today they concentrate mainly on philanthropy and charitable activities. Abit like the Rothschilds!

but the legacy still remains, some say Osama Bin Laden founded his Al-Qaida Network based on the Assassins of Alamut and took inspiration from Hasan i Sabbah.
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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 15:16
I'm bumping this thread up because I find the topic to be very intriguing.

Has anyone read "The Assassin Legends," by Farhad Daftary?  He's supposedly an authority on the subject, but I'm not sure.

Also, Amin Maalouf introduces a new theory to explain the history behind the name of the cult; the Assassins.

Quoting a couple of paragraphs from his book, Samarkand:

"So unreal were these scenes that it was often said that Hassan's men were drugged.  How otherwise could it be explained that they went to their deaths with a smile?  Some credence was given to the assertion that they were acting under the influence of hashish, and it was Marco Polo who popularized this idea in the West.  Their enemies in the Muslim world would contemptuously call them hash-ishiyun, "hashish-smokers"; some Orientalists thought that this was the origin of the word "assassin," which in many European languages has become synonymous with murderer.  The myth of the "Assassins" was more terrifying yet.

The truth is different.  According to texts that have come down to us from Alamut, Hassan liked to call his disciples Assassiyun, meaning people who are faithful to the Assass, the "foundation" of the faith.  This is the word, misunderstood by foreign travelers, that seemed similar to "hashish."

Hassan Sabbah indeed had a passion for plants and he had a miraculous knowledge of their curative, sedative, or stimulative characteristics [...] However, we must go by the evidence, in spite of the tenacity and allure of tradition: the Assassins had no drug other than straightforward faith, which was constantly reinforced by the intense instruction, the most efficient organization, and the strictest apportionment of tasks."

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 15:43

They were definately not pot heads, you can barely get up off ur ass on the stuff.

And the mongols probably succeeded because of their very unusual and cruel tactics in siege warfare, ie marching prisoners in front of their advancing troops so that the defenders would not fire.  Most likely the bulk of the prisoners were women and children.

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 15:56
It makes sense, coz "modern" suicide attackers don't get high before blowing themselves up.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2006 at 16:29
Assassiyun makes sense. Good point Mira , sadly not usually mentioned in the accounts who seem to prefer the sensationalistic and unorthodox nature of the cult. Some even go to the point of deauthroizing any relation with modern suicide attackers, maybe because Assassins acted mostly against other Muslims, always on the exclussive behalf of their sect. 

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 03:27
Originally posted by Maju

Assassiyun makes sense. Good point Mira , sadly not usually mentioned in the accounts who seem to prefer the sensationalistic and unorthodox nature of the cult. Some even go to the point of deauthroizing any relation with modern suicide attackers, maybe because Assassins acted mostly against other Muslims, always on the exclussive behalf of their sect. 


You're right.

I'm sure I read somewhere about the Templer Knights' involvement with the Assassins, but that was only because they feared them and viewed them as a threat?  It is also believed that Raymond II and Conrad had been victims of the Assassins. 

Salahulddin (Saladin), after receiving two death threats, apparently heeded the Assassins' warning, and tried to maintain good relations with them.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 07:06

Interesting thought I just had.

Latins do not possess the H sound in their language and the word was taken to the west by latins.  Assassiyun (Assassian) could be a pluralisation (the ian suffix pluralises it) in Persian of "hassas" means sensitive, they could have been the sensitive avengers.

But then again they do not have the "sh" sound either and replace it with an "s" sound. 

The word could just be derived from Hassanian, i.e. followers of Hassan.



Edited by Zagros
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Maju View Drop Down
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 09:51
Originally posted by Mira

Originally posted by Maju

Assassiyun makes sense. Good point Mira , sadly not usually mentioned in the accounts who seem to prefer the sensationalistic and unorthodox nature of the cult. Some even go to the point of deauthroizing any relation with modern suicide attackers, maybe because Assassins acted mostly against other Muslims, always on the exclussive behalf of their sect. 


You're right.

I'm sure I read somewhere about the Templer Knights' involvement with the Assassins, but that was only because they feared them and viewed them as a threat?  It is also believed that Raymond II and Conrad had been victims of the Assassins. 


Yes but, due to the organization of Crusaders, they had only a limited impact, as most leaders could be easily replaced. Anyhow, their policy was mostly to keep and expand their power using death-threats and assassination when necessary. According to one book I read on them, their tactics could work rather well among Muslims, because of the type of organization was heavily dependent on individual leaders, somthing that didn't happen to Europeans, at least not in the same manner.

Salahulddin (Saladin), after receiving two death threats, apparently heeded the Assassins' warning, and tried to maintain good relations with them.


Yes he did. There are several stories about how it happened but the one I like more is that which says that the very bodyguards of Salahdin were assassin agents themselves. Whatever the truth they surely managed to impress him in a manner that he decided better to accept the status-quo.

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  Quote Mira Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jan-2006 at 11:28
Originally posted by Zagros

Interesting thought I just had.

Latins do not possess the H sound in their language and the word was taken to the west by latins.  Assassiyun (Assassian) could be a pluralisation (the ian suffix pluralises it) in Persian of "hassas" means sensitive, they could have been the sensitive avengers.

But then again they do not have the "sh" sound either and replace it with an "s" sound. 

The word could just be derived from Hassanian, i.e. followers of Hassan.



Interesting theory! *thumbs up*
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