Assassins

Originally posted by Mira Originally posted by Maju Assassiyun makes sense. Good point Mira , sadly not usually mentioned in the accounts who seem to prefer the sensationalistic and unorthodox nature of the cult. Some even go to the point of deauthroizing any relation with modern suicide attackers, maybe because Assassins acted mostly against other Muslims, always on the exclussive behalf of their sect.  You're right. I'm sure I read somewhere about the Templer Knights' involvement with the Assassins, but that was only because they feared them and viewed them as a threat?  It is also believed that Raymond II and Conrad had been victims of the Assassins.

Yes but, due to the organization of Crusaders, they had only a limited impact, as most leaders could be easily replaced. Anyhow, their policy was mostly to keep and expand their power using death-threats and assassination when necessary. According to one book I read on them, their tactics could work rather well among Muslims, because of the type of organization was heavily dependent on individual leaders, somthing that didn't happen to Europeans, at least not in the same manner.

Salahulddin (Saladin), after receiving two death threats, apparently heeded the Assassins' warning, and tried to maintain good relations with them.

Yes he did. There are several stories about how it happened but the one I like more is that which says that the very bodyguards of Salahdin were assassin agents themselves. Whatever the truth they surely managed to impress him in a manner that he decided better to accept the status-quo.

Originally posted by Maju Assassiyun makes sense. Good point Mira , sadly not usually mentioned in the accounts who seem to prefer the sensationalistic and unorthodox nature of the cult. Some even go to the point of deauthroizing any relation with modern suicide attackers, maybe because Assassins acted mostly against other Muslims, always on the exclussive behalf of their sect.

You're right.

I'm sure I read somewhere about the Templer Knights' involvement with the Assassins, but that was only because they feared them and viewed them as a threat?  It is also believed that Raymond II and Conrad had been victims of the Assassins. 

Salahulddin (Saladin), after receiving two death threats, apparently heeded the Assassins' warning, and tried to maintain good relations with them.

It makes sense, coz "modern" suicide attackers don't get high before blowing themselves up.

I'm bumping this thread up because I find the topic to be very intriguing.

Has anyone read "The Assassin Legends," by Farhad Daftary?  He's supposedly an authority on the subject, but I'm not sure.

Also, Amin Maalouf introduces a new theory to explain the history behind the name of the cult; the Assassins.

Quoting a couple of paragraphs from his book, Samarkand:

"So unreal were these scenes that it was often said that Hassan's men were drugged.  How otherwise could it be explained that they went to their deaths with a smile?  Some credence was given to the assertion that they were acting under the influence of hashish, and it was Marco Polo who popularized this idea in the West.  Their enemies in the Muslim world would contemptuously call them hash-ishiyun, "hashish-smokers"; some Orientalists thought that this was the origin of the word "assassin," which in many European languages has become synonymous with murderer.  The myth of the "Assassins" was more terrifying yet.

The truth is different.  According to texts that have come down to us from Alamut, Hassan liked to call his disciples Assassiyun, meaning people who are faithful to the Assass, the "foundation" of the faith.  This is the word, misunderstood by foreign travelers, that seemed similar to "hashish."

Hassan Sabbah indeed had a passion for plants and he had a miraculous knowledge of their curative, sedative, or stimulative characteristics [...] However, we must go by the evidence, in spite of the tenacity and allure of tradition: the Assassins had no drug other than straightforward faith, which was constantly reinforced by the intense instruction, the most efficient organization, and the strictest apportionment of tasks."

Also reference the name "The Old Man of The Mountain" regarding their leader.  This a name given to whomever ruled the citadel at Alamut in the Elburtz Mountains of what is now Iran.  A few books I recommend on the subject that can definitely fall into the topical category of either Islamic history AND Medieval history, seeing as how the crusades were one of the fundamental institutions that shaped the period in question, not to mention modern events.  All one has to do is recall President Bush's uttering the word "crusade" in one his speaches early in the War on Terrorism.  How many Muslims probably shuddered in cultural memory of the crusades and the historical conotations to the use of the word to describe what the U.S was apparently embarking on?  We are the recipiants of a long tradition, Muslim and Christian alike of extremisms.  The Crusaders and the Assassins were two examples of that extremism.  Please reference the below listed books for further information on the Crusades and the Assassins.

1. Riley-Smith, J.  The Oxford illustrated History of the Crusades.  Oxford University Press, 2001 ed.  (Also see this author's other publications on the subject).

2.  Lewis, B.  The Assassins .  Basic Books, 1967 (2003 ed.).

3. Maalouf, A.  The Crusades Through Arab Eyes.  Schocken Books, 1985.

unconquorable? Poo! The Mongols systematically destroyed every 'unconquorable' Eagle's Nest and pretty much destroyed the organization of the Hashashin

I have also read that they were extremely patient when they planned to kill someone.  They could spend years getting their wictims trust and friendship.  That is why they only needed a knife to kill them I guess. 

I also read a story where this person (forgotten who) surrounded by his guards told his visitor - that had just threatend him in some way - that there was no way that he could kill him while he was surrounded by his most trusted guards, who ofcourse never left his side.  Upon which the vistor just told the guards to reveal their true identety... 

I guess the Assasins are truly what you could call the first organized terrorists...Except for one thing.  They only went for the source of the problem they wanted to remove.  They never killed hundreds of innocent people just to make a point.  They were much to clever and brave for that....

What was the political relation between the Assasins and neighbooring states? If they conducted so much terror I find it hard to believe they were not conquered before the Mongols.

Hi there,

I think it was Dari that mentioned that some of his family on his mothers side worked as Assassins. Is that true?

I am looking at making a documentary about the Assassins and the Valley....

Please get in touch at avina_weitowitz@hotmail.com">davina_weitowitz@hotmail.com

Cheers,

davs

well I put it here Becuase it was a question that came up in relation to Richard I 's crusade but if you think it should be elsewere I don't mind.