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Counting in Vietnamese

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Gubook Janggoon View Drop Down
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Counting in Vietnamese
    Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 21:35
Can anyone enlighten me on counting in Vietnamese?
Is it similar to Chinese?  If so is there a native number system also?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 11:20

My 2 cents:

1/ All Chinese character has its Sino/Viet pronounciation. Indeed, the Vietnamese pronounciation of Chinese Hanzi is very closed to old Chinese pronounciation like the Cantonese pronounciation. For example: Beijing is called in Vietnamese "Bac Kinh", the [-c] in "Bac" has disappeared in Mandarin (lots of foreign invaders came to North China, ruled and modified the language pronounciation -  it is funny to see that the Northern language is now the official standard language of the country! Lots of old Chinese poetry cannot be understood if read in Mandarin).

2/ Therefore, Vietnamese people can count with the Chinese characters for numbers: nhat, nhi, tam, tu, ngo, luc, that, bat, cuu, thap. In nowaday life indeed, no Viets use these numbers for counting but only in special cases or in some expressions: "triangle" is called "tam giac hinh" (three angle image)

3/ The Viet use for everyday life the Vietnamese way of counting: mot, hai, ba, bon, nam, sau, bay, tam, chin, muoi. It is pure Vietnamese language. 

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  Quote Kulong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2004 at 16:57
Originally posted by fgabriel

Lots of old Chinese poetry cannot be understood if
read in Mandarin).

Not true. Most of the time a person fluent in Mandarin can guess the
meaning of ancient Chinese poems, it isn't that difficult. The differences
is like modern English and old English. It isn't any easier if the person
spoke Cantonese.

The main difference isn't between dialects but the language "style".
Modern Chinese is based on Baihuawen while ancient Chinese is based on
Wenyenwen.
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  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2004 at 04:33
         you would still be able to understand Tang poem if you spoke mandarin, it just doesn't rhyme like it does in cantonese
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  Quote Kulong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 14:28
[QUOTE=babyblue]you would still be able to understand Tang poem if
you spoke mandarin, it just doesn't rhyme like it does in cantonese[/
QUOTE]
I've heard that arguement many times from Canton-centrists. Please
come up with an example.

I've learned numerous Tang poems when I was receiving my elementary
education in Taiwan. I've yet to come across a poem that doesn't rhyme
in Mandarin.
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  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 09:27

Originally posted by Kulong

I've heard that arguement many times from Canton-centrists. Please
come up with an example.

I've learned numerous Tang poems when I was receiving my elementary
education in Taiwan. I've yet to come across a poem that doesn't rhyme
in Mandarin.
 

             Du Fu, Chun Wang/spring watching:

in cantonese.....

                           gok po san ho joi, sing chun cho mok sum

                           gum si fa jin lui, hen bit niu ging sum

                           fung fo lin sam yuet, ga soo dai man gum

                           bak tau so geng doon, wen yuk bet sing jaam

in mandarin......

                           guo po shan he zai, cheng chun cao mu shen

                           gan shi hua zhan lei, hen bie niao jing xin

                           fung huo lian san yue, jia shu di wan jin

                           bai tou xu geng duan, hun yu bu sheng zan

      read the end of every sentence in both the cantonese and mandarin version and tell me which ryhmes more...                      

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  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2004 at 01:37
       damn it Kulong!!! when are you gonna reply me!!!???
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  Quote Kulong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 16:20
Originally posted by babyblue

Originally posted by Kulong

I've heard that arguement many times from Canton-centrists. Please

come up with an example.

I've learned numerous Tang poems when I was receiving my elementary
education in Taiwan. I've yet to come across a poem that doesn't rhyme
in Mandarin.

 

             Du Fu, Chun Wang/spring watching:

in cantonese.....

                     & ; ;nbs p;     gok po san ho joi, sing chun cho mok sum

                     & ; ;nbs p;     gum si fa jin lui, hen bit niu ging sum

                     & ; ;nbs p;     fung fo lin sam yuet, ga soo dai man gum

                     & ; ;nbs p;     bak tau so geng doon, wen yuk bet sing jaam

in mandarin......

                     & ; ;nbs p;     guo po shan he zai, cheng chun cao mu shen

                     & ; ;nbs p;     gan shi hua zhan lei, hen bie niao jing xin

                     & ; ;nbs p;     fung huo lian san yue, jia shu di wan jin

                     & ; ;nbs p;     bai tou xu geng duan, hun yu bu sheng zan

      read the end of every sentence in both the cantonese and mandarin version and tell me which ryhmes more...                      


OMG

ASSUMING your Cantonese romanization is correct and you are not attempting to deceive anyone, neither rhymes completely.  Sure, the Cantonese version has three "um" endings while Mandarin has two "in" endings, but what does that proof?  Finally, it is going to take MUCH more than one little poem to convince rational and logical people.

Ancient Chinese poets aren't robots, they are people.  Although there is an unspoken rules of rhyming in Chinese poems, not every poet follows it strictly, especially Li Bai and Du Fu.

You Canton-centrists need to do much better than this for your scheme lol

----

On a separate note, I do apologize for the delay of my response.  Visiting online forums and bickering with people thousands of miles away isn't exactly on the top of my priority list.


Edited by Kulong


"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato
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  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 12:29

         never said i'm a "Canto-centrist"...you know i've never even heard of that term before i saw your post.

          i'm a chinese, and that's what i am.

      i speak because i have something to say...not because i wanna say whatever....

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