Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Forrest Fenn's treasure

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Forrest Fenn's treasure
    Posted: 27-Feb-2019 at 01:08

Not sure if this is "history" or not, and so I'm not sure if maybe i should have put it in AE Tavern instead, though it is history in a way since the treasure includes historical artefacts in it and it is a modern history topic (2010 to present).

For those of you who haven't previously seen or heard about the "chase" i post below the main extant clues. You can also look up wikipedia article and search engine for more sites articles and information.

The reason i am posting this thread/topic is because i believe i have some answers to some of the clues but it is not easy to prove which of my few candidate areas the treasure is in because:
- I don't have good enough net/web access to detailed enough maps and resources (including google earth);
- I am not local so i can't explore/investigate the areas or get detailed local maps, and i don't know any locals who are trustworthy and willing to team up for equal/fair/negotiated shares;
- I don't have Fenn's 2 books which he says help with clues;
- I am limited by brain best whole ability hindrances of fluoridated water;
- All of the clues have multiple possible candidate matches found.
So i am posting this thread to (1) first ask if anyone in the area is willing to teamup, and (2) if no one is willing then i just have to give away what clues answers i have and risk/chance not getting any fair share of the treasure if it is found near where i indicate.

This first post is only to introduce the topic, and post my reason/question, and give the extant Chase clues. I won't start on giving my answers until next post (after short wait to see if anyone is willing to team up or not).

Now here are the extant clues that have been given, with the 6 stanza poem and map ( https://www.fftreasure.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/mapforweb.jpg ) being the main piece:

"The Thrill of the Chase". "Fen(n)boree".
"Fenn's treasure is hidden somewhere in the highlighted region (Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico) of the Rocky Mountains on the map."

"As I have gone alone in there
And with my treasures bold,
I can keep my secret where,
And hint of riches new and old.

"Begin it where warm waters halt (1st clue)
And take it in the canyon down,
Not far, but too far to walk.
Put in below the home of Brown.

"From there it’s no place for the meek,
The end is ever drawing nigh;
There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
Just heavy loads and water high.

"If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
Just take the chest and go in peace.

"So why is it that I must go
And leave my trove for all to seek?
The answers I already know,
I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

"So hear me all and listen good,
Your effort will be worth the cold.
If you are brave and in the wood
I give you title to the gold." ("24 lines, 9 clues".)

(Crosses on map: Wheeler Peak, Mt Evans, Pikes Peak, Mt Elbert, Gannet/Garret Peak, Granite Peak.)

"The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search."
Much of the book is about Yellowstone.
Fenn mentions Taos Mountain (nickname for Wheeler Peak) alot in his book.

Fenn said the treasure could be hidden in one of three places: "public land (BLM, NPS, FS), tribal land or private property".
"Forrest has said that there was nowhere he could have hid the treasure that would not involve some potential complications".

"the chest was exposed to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire"?

"If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains ( , I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush -- ) and I know the treasure chest is wet."
"I just watched that New Mexico Tourism video again .... Looking back I think I wanted to say I could smell pine needles, not pinon nuts. Sorry I kicked a hornet’s nest with that comment. There is no clue there. Incidentally, when I get pine pitch on my hands I rub butter on the spots and that solves the problem. Of course then I have trouble getting the butter off."

"Take a flashlight and a sandwich."

"There’s no need digging in the old outhouses, the treasure is not associated with any (manmade) structure."
"It is not in Nevada."
"The treasure is not in a grave yard."
"The treasure is higher than 5,000 feet above sea level." (or "above 1500 meters elevation".)
"If you had the coordinates, you would be able to find the treasure."
"The treasure is not hidden in Idaho or Utah."
"The treasure is not in a mine."
"(It is at least 8.25 miles) north of Santa Fe." (or "somewhere near/north-of Santa Fe")
"The treasure is hidden below 10,200 feet."
"It is more than 300 miles west of Toledo."
"I never said it was buried, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t."
"Is it not possible to find chest without leaving computer & google earth."
"There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure."
"Not associated with a structure...."
"I would like to know if the blaze can be found during the day without a flashlight. I would say yes."
"I made 2 trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon (carrying the chest in first and then the contents)."

"The treasure chest is not under water, nor is it near the Rio Grande River. It is not necessary to move large rocks or climb up or down a steep precipice, and it is not under a man-made object.
Please remember that I was about (79 or) 80 when I made two trips from my vehicle to where I hid the treasure."
" I walked less than a few (scant) miles...."

"The chest is not in a dangerous place.... It's somewhere you could take your kids." ("But he has also said it’s not somewhere that anybody is likely to stumble upon it accidentally.")

"searchers have been within 200 feet (60 m) of the treasure and many within 500 feet (150 m)"

"I knew exactly where to hide the chest so it would be difficult to find but not impossible"

"The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work not matter what.  In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine."

"just wanted to give people some hope." "to give something to do".

Fenn has offered a bounty for the bracelet (of which he said "is special to me").

Contents of the "19 kg" chest includes:
an antique 12th-century Roman lockbox chest made of sculpted bronze,
20 troy pounds of rare/gold coins,
gold nuggets the size of a man's fist,
gold dust,
pre-Columbian Incan & Mayan animal figures,
jewelery (a 17th-century Spanish gold-and-emerald ring,
a bracelet with more than 250 rubies &/or an ancient modest turquoise (& silver) bracelet &/or bracelet of beads from Mesa Verde),
gemstones (diamonds and Ceylon sapphires),
two hand-carved Chinese jade masks/carvings,
an olive jar holding his autobiography.

Timeline:
Sometime between 1930-1965 Fenn in (West) Yellowstone when young (mostly by Madison river and Hebgen lake)
1965-1973 Fenn flew missions in Vietnam
Arrowsmith-Fenn Gallery
Fenn Galleries
mid-1980s Fenn purchased San Lazaro Pueblo
1988 Fenn diagnosed with cancer; had idea to hide treasure
2009 FBI invesitgating artefact looting in Four Corners raided Fenn's home
2009 Fenn atteneded event in Cody, Wyoming
2010 Fenn announced hidden treasure;
2010/2011 Fenn's book Thrill of the Chase
2013 Fenn's book Too Far Too Walk
2015 Fenn's treasure featured in Travel Channel show Expedition Unknown.
2016 new Fenboree map
ca 2016 Fenn "made a massive retreat from the chase"
2016 Ashby moves to Colorado to seek treasure, Ashby last seen
2016 Bilyeu died seeking treasure
2017 Murphy died seeking treasure in Yellowstone park.
2017 pastor Wallace died seeking treasure in Taos junction area
2017 Ashby died seeking treasure in Arkansas river area (identified 2018).
2017 Fenn says treasure remains unfound

Forums: Chase Chat; Harry's Chase Forum (tapatalk); Searcher's Discussions (dalneitzel); hintofriches.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 27-Feb-2019 at 01:23
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2019 at 13:12

Ok now the first thing we will do before addressing specific clues of the poem is to narrow down the search area a little bit.

Fenn said that the treasure is not in Idaho, Utah, or Nevada.

He said the treasure is in highlighted area of the map, which is western Montana, western Wyoming, Western Colorado, and the northernmost western central part of New Mexico above 8 miles north of Santa Fe.

So the treasure can't be anywhere esle in the world/universe outside of the highlighted patrs of those 4 US states (35-49 N, 116-102 W).

Furthermore, he said "if you know the coordinates you'd find the treasure", and he said the treasure was "at least 8.6 miles north of Santa Fe", and "more than 300 miles west of Toledo".
Santa Fe is no problem:
Santa Fe (New Mexico) 35.42.2 N, 105.57.52 / 106.57 W.
Eldorado at Santa Fe 35.32.9 n, 105.55.29 w.
Santa Fe river 35.36.3 n, 106.20.23 w.
Santa Fe Baldy 35.49.56 n, 105.45.29 w.
Santa Fe Mountains ....
But Toledo is problematic because there are all these possibilities:

Toledo (Lucas, Ohio/Michigan) 41.40 N, 83.35 W.
Toledo (Cumberland, Illinois) 39.16.20 n, 88.14.34 w.
Toledo (Tama, Iowa) 41.59.36 n, 92.34.45 w.
Toledo (Chase, Kansas) 38.25.20 n, 96.22.16 w.
Toledo (Callaway, Missouri) 38.50.26 n, 91.49.06 w.
Toledo (Ozark, Missouri) 36.46.28 n, 92.41.08 w.
Toledo (Spain) 39.52 N, 4.01 W.
Toledo mountains (Spain) 39.33 N, 4.20 W.
Toledo dist (Spain) 39.45 N, 4.10 W.
Toledo (Naples/Napoli, Italy) 40.84.24 N, 14.2593 E.
Toledo (Baltimore) 39.18 n, 76.38 w?
Toledo (Baltimore, Maryland) 39.17 n, 76.37 w?
Toledo (Baltimore, Ohio) 39.51 n, 82.36 w?
Toledo (Baltimore, Canada) 44.03 n, 78.08 w?
(Note: the last four are uncertain because was not sure which Baltimore, plus the Toledo is not a place name.)

I tried the few most likely coordinates intersection points combinations but couldn't find any definite possible treasure sites/areas matches in google maps (with my limited web/net connection etc).
(Note there is also a Toledo Caldera in Bandelier National Monument w.n.w of Santa Fe.)
We can only say for sure that the range of possible coordinates limit the search area to between 35/36-41 (not to 44?) North, which = the southern third of western Wyoming, western Colorado, and the north third of New Mexico 8 miles north of Santa Fee; and 105/106 West, which excludes all the highlighted area of Montana, almost all of the highlighted area of Wyoming except the Laramies portion, and includes only Colorado and New Mexico. So Montana and Yellowstone and most of Wyoming would seem to be ruled-out for this reason (as well as some other reasons too), unless Fenn's "north of" and "west of" are not very/narrowly precise/accurate? (At the widest, north could be w.n.w., n.w., n.n.w., n.n.e., n.e., e.n.e.; and the longer the distance the less the angle.)
(Fenn's treasure 35/36-41 N, 105/106 W;
Montana 49-44 N, 116-108(-104) W;
Wyoming 45-41 N, 111-105(-104) W;
Colorado 41-37 N, 110-104(-102) W;
New Mexico 37-35(-31) N, 110-104(-103) W.)
The original map also shows magnetic north longitude lines, which might that mean we may have two candidates to pick from for "north of Santa Fe", and might limit the location to the magnetic north longitude band that Santa Fe is in which only cuts through highlighted parts of Colorado and New Mexico in the map?

Fenn also said that the location of the treasure chest is not near the Rio Grande river, which also slightly lessens the possible areas of western Colorado and northernmost New Mexico.

Fenn has had associations with Montana (Hebgen lake, Madison river), Wyoming (Yellowstone, Madison river, Cody), and New Mexico (Four Corners, Taos Mountain, Santa Fe, Bandelier, San Lazaro), and he said that the location where he hid the chest was "special" to him, which might possibly also narrow down to those 3 states and elimate Colorado (though Fenn also has connections with Mesa Verde, Four Corners, and Benchmark maps in Denver)?
Some have said that pinyon trees don't grow "as far north as Wyoming" or "that far north in Wyoming" or "north of Flaming Gorge", which would also limit the area as well, though some claim that pinyons do grow in s.w. Wyoming too ("ask the locals", though pinyons are said to be "rare in Wyoming"), and Fenn claimed he made mistake of pinyon for pine and that the clue is nullified.

The map also shows the whole of the 3 states Montana, Wyoming and Colorado, but only part of the state New Mexico, which might mean either that the treasure is in one of the 3 states and not in the odd one out, or it is in the odd one out and not in the other 3?

Furthermore the map key shows public land, BLM land, NPS land, and tribal land, and Fenn said that the treasure was in/on either "public land, tribal land or private property". Private Property can be ruled-out, because "Fenn maintains that he hasn't shared the location with anyone else", and searchers would also not be allowed access without permission (unless the private property is "unposted"?), and it is said that "Most tribal lands are off-limits to outsiders" (and some are held sacred), so this might narrow down the location to public land?

Fenn's treasure is "in the Rocky Mountains" (also compare the clues words "high", "cold", "snow", "mountains"?)
Fenn said it is "above 5000 feet" (or "1500 meters") and "below 10200 feet" (3100 meters), which narrows it down to locations between 5000-7600-10200 feet.
Possible candidate matches include:

Colorado not below 1000 m
Snowmass ski area 4406-8104-12510 ft (Colorado)
Dry Cimarron river 4318 ft (n.e. New Mexico)
Bandelier National Monument ranges from 5000 ft (Rio Grande) to 10000/10200 ft (Cerro Grande, Valles Caldera, New Mexico) *
("Newcastle above 5500 ft.")
Santa Cruz reservoir 5663 ft (New Mexico)
Sinks canyon 6000 ft
Mesa Verde 6000 to 7000 to 8427/8572 ft (sw Colorado) *
Clear Creek / Mt Osborn / Green river lake 6040 ft (Wyoming)
(Santuario de) Chimayo 6073/6075 ft (New Mexico)
Chaco 6200-6440 ft (nw New Mexico)
Eldorado at Santa Fe 6677 ft.
White Rock canyon 6356 ft (New Mexico)
Laramies 4500-7000-8000-9500-10274-11007 ft (Wyoming) *
Los Alamos 7320 ft (New Mexico)
Glorieta 7500 ft (New Mexico) *
Cimarron canyon 7500 ft (river 5679-8146 ft, New Mexico) *
Buena Vista 7965 ft (Colorado)
Wet Mountain valley 8000 ft (Colorado)
Eagle Nest 8300 ft in valley on slopes of Wheeler peak (13161/3409 ft, New Mexico) *
Angel Fire 8406/8600-10677 ft (New Mexico) *
Woodland park 8465 ft (Colorado)
Winter park 9000 ft
Canyon creek 9000 ft
Willow Creek pass 9569 ft.
Mt Meek 9718 ft.
High Creek Fen (near Fairplay 9953 ft, Colorado)?
Hermit's Peak 10267/3129 ft (New Mexico) *
Agua Fria Peak 11078 ft (New Mexico)
Chicoma 11561/4281 ft (treeline high).
Saddle 1000 ft below summit SF Baldy (12632/1982 ft, New Mexico).
treeline SF Baldy reaches 12000 ft in someplaces (New Mexico).
Medicine Bow 12018/3233 ft (Wyoming/Colorado)
Truchas 13108/4001ft (New Mexico).
Gannett peak 13810/7076 ft (Wyoming)
Pikes peak 14115/5530 ft (Colorado).
Longs peak 14259/2940 ft (Colorado/Wyoming).
Blanca peak 14351/5326 ft.
Uncompahgre 14321/4277 ft (Colorado).
Mt Elbert 14440/9093 ft (Colorado).

The poem implies that the chest is in a "wood" (which is maybe also punningly matched by Fenn's first name 'Forrest', and the word "chase", "trees", "pine/pinyon", and "forest fire"?)

NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2019 at 22:00
If it's ever found, it will be by accident, much like the treasure found on Cocos Island. Folks had been looking for it for 200 plus years.

4 employees of the Costa Rica National Parks were checking the uninhabited Island after a storm in 2015. The found 6 large chests sticking out of the sand. In them was a treasure worth approx. 400 million.

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2019 at 23:44

Thats the spirit! :-)
Yes it is quite likely that it would more likely be found by accident as some other things have been (like your example), though Fenn's comments indicate that it is quite possible someone could work it out (Fenn said something about how the person who found it would be pretty clear about the clues/location). Fenn said he was going to go recover it when it reached 10 million in value.
I hadn't heard of the Cocos island treasure, could it be connected with Captain Kidd?

The main clue i wish to focus on first is the "home of Brown". We have these candidate matches below (the ones asterisked on right side are my more favoured ones for various reasons).

The home of Brown could be either:
Eagle Nest lake "Home of the browns" (brown trout, Wheeler peak, N.M.) *
Mary Babik Brown's home Pueblo (Pueblo co, Col, 1907-1991) *
"home on the ranch" "Brown ranch" (Dry Cimarron valley, NM, 2011) (cinnamon is also brown) (cant match because 1 year after treasure poem and not in highlighted area of map).
Brown family home in Gardiner
Mayor Brown of Cripple Creek (Teller co, Col, 2008) *
Mayor Brown of Cody (Wyoming)
Molly Brown House (Margaret/Molly Brown lived in Leadville (Lake co, Col) and Denver (Col), 1885-1894-1897) (though not her home) *
lodge of Alsa L Brown
Joe Brown('s) cabin/creek/boat-putin/trailhead (Yellowstone river)
Browns mining claim Deckhard flats
legislator Cathryn Brown (Carlsbad, New Mexico, too far south off treasure map)
Lorin Brown
painter Grafton Tyler Brown
Barnum Brown was in Wyoming in 1895 and in Montana 1902-1910s (was not his home though).
Henry Newton Brown in Colorado & New Mexico (with Billy the Kid) in 1877 (not his home though).
Brown & Brown insurance
Ranger Brown of the Lamar Ranger Station (Norris geyser, Lamar Valley) *
Cooter Brown's in Cody (Wyoming)
"brown trout hatchery" *
brown bears; Bear Peak
brown capped rosy finches
Point Sublime named by Beulah Brown (on grand canyon?)
Casa Morena "brown house" (Chaco canyon, nw New Mexico) (maron is "brown" in Spanish) *
Brown House at bottom of Browns Hill Road near Little Snake river
Browns Park formation / national wildlife refuge (Moffat, Colorado) *
Brownville (Rio Grande, Texas)
Browning (north western Montana)
Browns Can(y)on national monument (Chaffee, Colorado)?
Browns Cliff / Brown Cliffs North (Wind river range, Wyoming)?
Browns Bluff?
Browns creek
Brown Springs (Colorado Springs?)
Brown Sponge Spring
Lander (Wyoming) used to be Fort Brown
Fort Washakie was once called Fort Brown (right by Lander)
Brown cemetery (Montana)?
Brown hill (New Mexico)
"brown gravy" (Cement Creek)
Mt Sheridan used to be Brown Mountain
Brown Mountain campground (Colorado),
Brown Mountain mine (Ouray, Colorado)
Brown hotel
Brown university.
Bruin point
Brumley?
Moreno valley/creek (Cimarron) (maron is "brown" in Spanish, cinnamon is brown) *
Maroon Mountain; Maroon Bells (Colorado)
ale/beer
Grover Auburn (Wyoming) (auburn/brown)?
Copper Mountain
red, yellow and black (New Mexico flag; Amerind?) *

Timeline with candidates for the clues home of Brown and the Blaze:
an antique 12th-century Roman lockbox chest made of sculpted bronze,
a 17th-century Spanish gold-and-emerald ring
1877 Henry Newton Brown in Colorado & N.M. (with Billy the Kid)
1885-1894-1897 Margaret/Molly Brown gold mining (Leadville, Colorado) *
1895 Barnum Brown in Wyoming
1902-1910s Barnum Brown in Montana
1907-1991 Mary Brown born at Pueblo (Colorado) *
1917-1961 Hemingway/Mcleish/Marvel
Sometime between 1930-1965 Fenn in (West) Yellowstone when young (mostly by Madison river and Hebgen lake) *
1965-1973 Fenn flew missions in Vietnam *
Arrowsmith-Fenn Gallery
Fenn Galleries
mid-1980s Fenn purchased San Lazaro/Lorenzo Pueblo
1988 forest around Clear Creek charred by blaze caused by lightning (sw Wyoming)
1988 Fenn diagnosed with cancer; had idea to hide treasure
late 1980s High Creek fen / Aapa mire wetland near Fairplay *
1990 Blaze of Glory, Santa Fe *
1994 south canyon fire on Storm King Mtn near Glenwood springs (w Col)  
1996-2003 wildfire damage on Chapin Mesa *
2000 Cerro Grande fire
2002 Missionary ridge fire north of Durango (sw Colorado)
2002 Hayman fire (Colorado)
2005 Santa Fe impact structure discovered (New Mexico)
2006 photo of Chaco supernova (nw New Mexico) *
2007 Blaze novel by Stephen King
2008 poison break Clovis (New Mexico)
2008 lightning causes Bridger fire (Pinon canyon) *
2008 mayor Brown (Cripple Creek, Colorado) *
2009 FBI invesitgating artefact looting in Four Corners raided Fenn's home *
2009 helicopter accident Santa Fe Baldy (New Mexico) *
2009 Fenn atteneded event in Cody (Wyoming)
2010 four mile canyon fire west of Boulder (Colorado)
2010 Fenn announced hidden treasure;
2010/2011 Fenn's book Thrill of the Chase
2011 Las Conchas fire (Bandelier nat. mon., New Mexico) *
2011 "home on the ranch" "Brown ranch" (Dry Cimarron valley, NM) *
2013 Fenn's book Too Far Too Walk
2015 Fenn's treasure featured in Travel Channel show Expedition Unknown.
2016 new Fenboree map *
ca 2016 Fenn "made a massive retreat from the chase"
2016 Ashby moves to Colorado to seek treasure, last seen
2016 Bilyeu died seeking treasure
2017 Murphy died seeking treasure in Yellowstone park.
2017 pastor Wallace died seeking treasure in Taos junction area (NM) *
2017 treasure seeker Ashby found dead in Arkansas river area (Colorado, identified 2018).
2017 Fenn says treasure remains unfound.

References:

Eagle Nest "Home of the Browns" :
https://www.eaglenestchamber.org/eagle-nest-history.html

Casa Morena "brown house" :
http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/archaeology/casa-morena-the-chaco-canyon-outlier-that-never-was/

Home on the Ranch, the Brown Ranch:
http://www.timkellerphotography.com/timkellerarts/WritingNMBrownRanch.html

Mayor Brown of Cripple Creek:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cripple_Creek,_Colorado

Mary Brown home Pueblo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Babnik_Brown

Margaret/Molly Brown at Leadville
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Brown

Moreno creek/valley, Cimarron:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimarron_River_(Canadian_River_tributary)

Blaze of Glory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaze_of_Glory_(Jon_Bon_Jovi_album)

Chaco supernova
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaco_Culture_National_Historical_Park

Las Conchas fire 2011 Bandelier nat mon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandelier_National_Monument



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 27-Feb-2019 at 23:57
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2019 at 04:52

I have just found a whole lot more clue which i hadn't seen before here https://bloggedinthewoods.wordpress.com/forrest-fenn-notes/ and i now think the areas where i thought seemed to fit best may be wrong. It now looks like Yellowstone area is right after all, though if so then either Fenn lied about some clues like more than 300 miles west of Toledo and at least 8 miles north of Santa Fe, or the meanings are not quite what seem. Technically Yellow stone is not really directly west or north, though it is generally north and west. The "if you know the coordinates" clue must relate to seomthing else rather than those two clues.
So i have made a fool of myself which i really hate, though only because lack of the 5 things mentioned in first post and the extra clues i hadn't seen.

NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2019 at 22:02

It now seems probable from Fenn's extra clues/hints that the treasure is probably in the Yellowstone area of Montana/Wyoming. If it wasn't for those extra clues i'd still see northern New Mexico or southern Colorado as having better matches for some of the poem's clues (my candidate sites thereabouts included Mesa Verde, Chaco, Bandelier, Eagle Nest, Dry Cimarron, near Cripple Creek, near Pueblo, near Leadville, etc).

The reason why i switched to Yellowstone area is because:
- Fenn spent time in the Yellowstone/Madison/Hebgen area when young.
- Fenn's book chapters mention Yellowstone, and Lewis & Clark.
- Fenn said the location was special to him. Elsewhere he said similar abot a location in the Yellowstone/Hebgen/Madison area where he was when young.
- Another comment of Fenn said that the location didn't have the clues when he was a child but had the places, which means it is located in the area where he was when young. (His saying the place was somewhere people could take children/kids might also hint at this?)
- Fenn said he hadn't been back there since 1950, which again points to where he was when ca 20 yrs old.
- The name/word yellowstone can be a pun for gold. (Could some people saying "flames to embers" also hint at this?)
- Some researchers have found candidates for the home of Brown in the area (see my list in a post above).
- Fenn was up at Cody (Wyoming) near when he hid the treasure (see my timelines in previous posts).
- May answer how Fenn knows searchers have been within so many yards/feet of the hidding place, and have walked past it (as comments of his say).
- May be why map's highlighted area stretches from New Mexico to Montana? And why he says "not near Rio Grande".
- Name Fennboree could relate to Boreas "north"?

Previous seeming cons i thought were:
- He said he would retrieve it when it reaches 10 million, so it couldn't be too far for an 80+ year old to get to.
- He mentioned a rental car in one comment (though another says "my car").
- Coordinates west of Toledo and north of Santa Fe don't directly match Yellowstone (though west of Toledo might possibly match with magnetic north?) (Though Yellowstone is generally/widely north of and west of.)
- Some clues/hints imply the hiding place was/is not far.

Most of the clues still have a number of possible matches in different areas of the park and I haven't yet been able to find an area where all the clues match in combination. It is difficult to be able to narrow down when i don't have Fenn's books and i am not on the ground in the area. But i'm looking at these 5-7(-9) areas as possible locations of the treasure as possible matches for some of the clues including the one that it is between 5000-10200 ft.:

Eagle Peak, Tower-Roosevelt, Grand Prismatic Spring? National Park Mountain, Cache Mountain, Top Notch? Mt Washburn. (Overlook Mountain? Observation Peak?)

This is a list of the elevation points in and around/nearby Yellowstone park:

(Botelers 4925)
Reese Creek 5282 ft (lowest, to Eagle Peak highest) *
North Entrance 5314 ft
Yellowstone park hq 6230
ice at Mammoth Hot Springs 6239 ft
Tower-Roosevelt 6270 ft *
West Entrance 6667 ft
West Yellowstone 6667 ft
Madison Info Stn Bookstore 6806 ft
South Entrance 6886 ft
East Entrance 6951 ft
Blacktail Deer plateau 7113 ft
Grand Prismatic Spring 7270 ft *
Northeast Entrance 7365 ft
Old Faithful geyser 7365 ft
Obsidian Cliff 7383 ft
Norris 7484 ft
National Park Mtn 7500 ft *
ice at Grant Village 7733 ft
Canyon Village 7734 ft
ice at/near Fishing Bridge & Bridge Bay 7784 ft
Mt Everts 7841 ft
Yellowstone lake/caldera elevation 7870/7733/7714/7427 ft
7911/7988 ft
Yellowstone plateau 8000
Solfatara plateau 8166 ft
Mt Haynes 8235 ft
Buffalo plateau 8251 ft
Craig Pass 8262 ft
Lake Butte 8348 ft
picnic area on Continental Divide 8391 ft
Central plateau 8399 ft
Madison plateau 8435 ft
Sylvan Pass 8530 ft
Bunsen Peak 8564 ft
Elephant Back Mtn 8592 ft
Mirror plateau 8714 ft
Dunraven Pass 8859 ft
Pitchstone plateau 8881 ft
Yellowstone caldera/lake 9203
Overlook Mountain 9321 ft ?
Observation Peak 9397 ft ?
White Peaks 9472 ft
Two Ocean plateau 9478 ft
Druid Peak 9583 ft
Prospect Peak 9525 ft
Cache Mtn 9596 ft *
Eagle Pass 9628 ft
Sepulchre Mtn 9642 ft ?
Pelican Cone 9643 ft
Flat Mt 9704
Little Quadrant Mtn 9885 ft
Dome Mtn 9894 ft
Mt Norris 9936 ft
Quadrant Mtn 9944 ft
Grizzly Peak 9948 ft
Antler Peak 10023 ft
Mt Doane 10118/10656 ft
Parker Peak 10023 ft
Mt Hancock 10214/10223 ft
Top Notch 10238 ft *
Amphitheatre Mtn 10239 ft
Mt Washburn 10243/10575 ft *
Cody Peak 10267 ft
( Mt Sheridan 10298/10308 ft (Red Mtns)
Mt Holmes 10336 ft
Mt Stevenson 10352/10230 ft
Barronette Peak 10404 ft
Pyramid Peak 10497 ft
The Thunderer 10554 ft
Avalanche Peak 10566 ft
Reservation Peak 10617 ft
Emigrant Peak 10628 ft
Trident plateau 10649 ft
Colter Mtn 10683 ft
Reservation Peak 10629 ft
Saddle Mtn 10670 ft
Mt Langford 10774 ft
Castor Peak 10854 ft
Abiathar Peak 10928 ft
Electric Peak 10967 ft (Gallatin Range)
Turret Mtn 10995 ft
Table Mountain 11063 ft
Pollux Peak 11067 ft
Mt Schurz 11139 ft
Eagle Peak 11356/11358 ft (highest, from Reese Creek lowest).
Granite Peak  12807 ft.)

Some more others are seen here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountains_and_mountain_ranges_of_Yellowstone_National_Park

We could discuss in future posts/replies some of the poem clues including "where the warm waters halt" if people wish?



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 02-Mar-2019 at 04:17
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2019 at 01:27

I'm fairly sure i have just found the location (Mount Washburn, or else Gallatin valley summits, though i can't say exactly where in the location the chest is.

I'm going to risk a tentative pick of Mt Washburn (and/or the summits of Gallatin Valley):

Pros of Mt Washburn (&/or Gallatin Valley summits):

(Note: most of the details about Mt Washburn below are from the 3 travellers accounts in the wikipedia article on Mt Washburn. Most of the Fenn clues are seen in the first post of this thread.)

- The name Washburn could partially match clues "water high" or "up creek" (burn is a stream)? (Though water high might be snow or clouds.)

- "the line of perpetual snow" (Washburn), or "Still further to the left the snowy ranges on the headwaters of Gardiner's river" and "the white summits above the Gallatin Valley. These never thaw during the summer months, though several thousand feet lower than where we now stand upon the bare granite and no snow visible near, save n the depths of shaded ravines" could match clues "where warm waters halt", "cold", "physics say the treasure is wet", etc.

- "Mt Washburn ... is a station in the primary and secondary triangulation" could match "west of Toledo" & "north of Santa Fe"?

- Washburn visitor descriptions of "The view from the summit is beyond all adequate description. ...  a variegated landscape of surpassing beauty...." & "From the tip top of Mount Washburn you can see the world in much of its glory" & "On the east, close beneath our feet, yawns the immense gulf of the Grand Cañon" & "The mind struggles and then falls back upon itself despairing in the effort to grasp by a single thought the idea of its immensity" may match the clues "marvel gaze"?

- "One of three active fire lookout towers in Yellowstone is located on the summit." Or "the white summits above the Gallatin Valley", or "the sun's rays are reflected on the further wall", or "The pure atmosphere of this lofty region causes every outline of tree, rock or lakelet to be visible with wonderful distinctness, and objects 20 miles away appear as if very near at hand" could match "the blaze" (which Fenn further said could be "anything which stands out")?

- Washburn description "where we met the line of perpetual snow" could match clue "where warm waters halt"?

- "Warm Spring Creek below" could match "where warm waters halt" or "up creek" clues?

- "Beyond, a gentle declivity, sloping from the summit of the broken range, extends to the limit of vision, a wilderness of unbroken pine forest", and "innumerable groves" in the vicinity of Washburn could match Fenn say he could see/smell pines or pinyons, and the clue "in the wood"?

- one visitors account mentioning "played snowball" there (Washburn) could match Fenn saying treasure's location is "somwehere where you can take your kids/children"?

- tin mustard box on top of Washburn is similar to Fenn's chest?

- "10000/10243 ft" height and "to drive to an altitude of over ten thousand feet above sea-level", or "the white summits above the Gallatin Valley. These never thaw during the summer months, though several thousand feet lower than where we now stand upon the bare granite and no snow visible near, save n the depths of shaded ravines" matches Fenn's treasure site being "above 5000 ft" and "below 10200 ft".

- can drive up to the mountain on good road.

- the snow or the granite / rock(riven peak) of Washburn, or Elephant's Back to the west/south, or carrying stuff up slogging/hiking up the mountain could match clue "heavy loads"?

- "On the east, close beneath our feet, yawns the immense gulf of the Grand Cañon, cutting away the bases of two mountains in forcing a passage through the range. Its yellow walls divide the landscape nearly in a straight line to the junction of Warm Spring Creek below. The ragged edges of the chasm are from two hundred to five hundred yards apart" could match Fenn confirming that "searchers have been within 200 feet (60 m) of the treasure and many within 500 feet (150 m)".

- Washburn's association with Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone ("On the east, close beneath our feet, yawns the immense gulf of the Grand Cañon", "bounded on its extreme verge by the cañons of the Yellowstone", "From the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone to Mount Washburn is a drive of ten miles", photo of "Mount Washburn from north rim of Grand Canyon") or "hiking-canyon" could match clue "take the canyon down" and "not far but too far too walk".

- "From the tip top of Mount Washburn you can see the world in much of its glory. It is an entrancing view. You are in love with living. You want to do more of it. You plan to do big things when you get down into the work again." could match Fenn being described as an "adrenaline junkie"?

- The creek clue might relate to either Warm Spring Creek, Antelope Creek, or Wash-burn(e) "wash stream"?

( - home of Brown clue might relate to the -burn(e) of Washburn(e)? or Dunraven pass nearby (dun "dark/black/brown/grey", dun "fort")? or the yellow of Yellowstone canyon (since brown is combination of yellow & red plus black)?)

- From some of the above one can see why the place is special to Fenn. (Quite amazed....)

Cons of Mt Washburn:

- "rock-riven peak", and "the white summits above the Gallatin Valley. These never thaw during the summer months, though several thousand feet lower than where we now stand upon the bare granite and no snow visible near, save in the depths of shaded ravines" would mean that Washburn can't match the clues "where warm waters halt", "cold", "physics say it is wet" (since ravines are not "somewhere you can take your children" and "not dangerous" and "where an 80 year old could go" as Fenn stated), though the summits of Gallatin could match the clues.

 -----

A secondary next candidate pick would be Eagle Peak:

Pros of Eagle Peak:

- remains glacial on/in Eagle Peak could  match clues about "where warm waters halt", "cold", "physics say treasure is wet", etc?

- Mink Fire on Eagle Peak could match clue "the blaze"?

- Shoshone National Forest could match clues about the "wood", "pine or pinyon"?  

- Creeks / Mountain Creek / Fish Hawk Creek in Eagle Peak vicinity could match clue "up creek"?

- EP can be accessed from outside Yellowstone park.

Cons of Eagle Peak:

- 15 mile hike or 25 km hike up/to Eagle Peak is too far for an 80 year old to hike "2 trips from my car in one afternoon".

 -----

* "warm waters" could be geothermal springs (eg Mammoth springs), or geyser.
"where the warm waters halt" either steam (geyser), or dam/bank/basin, or met cold/cool water/air/north, or mix with dirt (mud) or with other liquid/fluid, or freeze (snow/ice/glacier/north).
"end is ever drawing nigh" either hiking up a mountain/hill, or going through a tunnel, or poetic for falls, or death.
"heavy loads" either carrying stuff up mountain, or truck, or snow/ice/water, or rocks. (Cf "come unto me all you heavy laden"?)
"water high" either snow, cloud, falls, Washburn, high tide.
"physics say its wet" either water, ice, snow, cloud, condensation, frost, steam, dew, damp, melt/molten.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 02-Mar-2019 at 18:18
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.031 seconds.