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Liber Tartarorum

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Drunt Ba'adur View Drop Down
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  Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Liber Tartarorum
    Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 20:59
Before "Marco Polo" travelled to China and talked about Kublai's Khan Empire, another europeans visited mongol court. One of the most famous one is Giovanni Carpini.

Giovanni da Pian del Carpini
(?-1252) was one of the first Europeans to enter the court of the Great Khan of Mongol Empire and the author of the earliest important Western work on northern and central Asia, Russia, Europe and other regions of mongol dominion. He was a monk sent by Pope Innocent IV as an envoy to the Mongol Khan. He travelled with another monk across Golden Horde arriving finally to Karakorum. Her book called "Liber Tartarorum" is one of the most important sources on mongol empire (as The Secret History of Mongol Empire and others).

Some days ago I found the book in english and i thought that maybe you would like to read:

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/h/hakluyt/voyages/carpi ni/complete.html


Edited by Drunt Ba'adur
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Decebal View Drop Down
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 10:16
Your link doesn't work
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

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Drunt Ba'adur View Drop Down
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  Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 18:41
now it should work
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baracuda View Drop Down
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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 00:17
Maybe now you're going to enlighten us calling the Tartars mongol? if so you'll here me laughing from Moscow.. from down in spain or whereever you are..
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Drunt Ba'adur View Drop Down
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  Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 03:39
Originally posted by baracuda

Maybe now you're going to enlighten us calling the Tartars mongol? if so you'll here me laughing from Moscow.. from down in spain or whereever you are..

i don't understand your reply at all. Are you asking me to explain the differences between tatar & mongol?

Firstly I must say that if you are laughing because of the name of the book... it is not my fault that in middle ages Europe knew so less about Central Asia. For Europe Tatar, mongol, huns... all those words were nearly the same since they didn't know too much about those civilitzacions. Probably they took tatar because of the nearlier that people were.
And now, maybe you are asking me to show the differences between tatar & mongol. Well, firstly i must (again) tell you that those words were not correct used in middle ages, so the meaning of the original word has changed... Because of the lack of knowledge about those cultures, some europeans gave to all of the turkish cultures in Asia the name of "tartars".
But that was false since tartars were those who lived near Volga, Crimea...
And then we have the mongols (who were the real people that Carpini visited) called in her book tatars. Mongols were those who live in  the zone near to the nowadays called Mongolia (also a part of China called Inner Mongolia and the zone near Baikal Lake in Rusia) and as there were a lot of "clans" before Temujin become Genghis Khan.
Although Carpini didn't realise that fact, that type of mistakes are common in nearly all the world. For example, calling the peninsula involving "Portugal & Spain" the Iberian peninsula is not correct since iberia was just a group of people living near the mediterranan coast. The problem was that romans firstly knew those coastal people and give to all the peninsula the same name.

EDIT: oh! i've seen the mistake in the description of the book and i've sorted... sorry


Edited by Drunt Ba'adur
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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 11:05
Actually its a big mistake that the Europeans made a long time ago which still continues on today..
Tartar home is central asia, exactly the position you describe, where as at later dates they took over masses of land explaining why you might think of them as Volga crimean.

Tatars neither ethnically nor lingustically are Mongolian, they are totaly different, that it sounds funny to even compare.. They are directly Altaic-Turkic.. even present day Tartars in russia prove this.. (In appearance they are also very different its like comparing a chinese person to a norwegian)

Mongols consisted of tribes, which included the tatars, and other turkic tribes, but regardless the name Mongolian.. but interesting writings.. Im still reading them.. thanks..

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