Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Egyptian Chronology

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Sharrukin View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1314
  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Egyptian Chronology
    Posted: 18-Jul-2019 at 02:06
Well, you do know that the Biblical text says "In the 480th year after the Israelites had come out of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month of Ziv, in the 2nd month, he began to build the Temple of the Lord." (I Kings 6:1), hence it is from the Exodus to the Temple - about 931 BC (beginning of the reign of Rehoboam/Jeroboam I) + 40 years to the beginning of the reign of Solomon, about 971 BC - 4 years to about 967 BC for the beginning of the construction of the Temple. 

Also, too, the 300-year timespan Jephthah mentions isn't from the time of the Exodus but rather from the time the Israelites occupied the region east of the Jordan, 2 years before the Conquest, so, again, this 300-year timespan isn't based on some "year of the Exodus".   

So, okay, accuracy isn't what you are looking for.   The Temple date is about 22 years before Shishak, but who's keeping count?   The 480-year count still remains an enigma.   How did they arrive at this figure?  What are the chronological underpinnings of this figure?   We don't know.  

The long counts of the Assyrians on the other hand are understood.  They kept track of their history by preserving the eponyms of the years of their kings.  That is why later Assyrian kings could give nearly precise figures in the 100s of years between them and such earlier kings as Shamshi-Adad I and Erishum I.  

We have the tools to understand the underpinnings of Assyrian chronology back to the Amarna Age.   We have the eponyms, the Assyrian King Lists (AKLs) the Babylonian King Lists (BKLs) as well as many individual inscriptions touching on Middle Eastern chronology from the Assyrians, Egyptians, Hittites and Babylonians.  We don't have anything to understand the 480 years.

Sources for dating Amarna to the period 1350-1334 BC = multiple
Sources for dating the 480 years to 1425 BC outside the Bible = 0
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2019 at 16:39

The fact remains that the conventional Egyptian chronology doesn't match the bible (Joseph, Moses, exodus, Jericho, Shishak, etc). Either one or the other or both is wrong. You imply the conventional is righter than the biblical. I hold that the conventional  is wrong and biblical is right. I can't  see anyway to resolve this until either side is able to more fully prove the othersides criticisms/doubts. There is no proof that Amarna was 1300s bc and the "multiple" "sources" are limited and not infallibly reliable. I withdraw as i am disadvantaged by my situation esp the water. You win but i maintain my horizontal matches are right/stark even if i can't yet disprove the one vertical calculations counter argument. (Incidentally there are close enough to 480 yrs from end of 12th dynasty to Ramses 2 in conventional chronology.)

The bible is not one single source.
Judges has 300 yrs to Jephthah
Judges gives the years for all the Judges and servitudes.
Kings says 480 years in a pretty clear/precise not-figurative wording.
Paul said 450 yrs in Acts.
Josephus says 592 years.
(Herodotus dates Moeris 900 years before Amasis or Amyrtaeus, and said chariots were lost in Sesostris reign.)



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 18-Jul-2019 at 16:41
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
Back to Top
Sharrukin View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1314
  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2019 at 00:53
The fact remains that the conventional Egyptian chronology doesn't match the bible

Agreed

(Joseph, Moses, exodus, Jericho,

yes, the biblical uses a longer period of time, then the conventional

Shishak, etc).

From Shishak, and onward, we do have better documentation. 

Either one or the other or both is wrong.

That depends upon how one views the "480 years".   If you see it as an absolute figure, than yes "one or the other or both is wrong".   However if one sees it as a code where "480 years" can be viewed as 40 x 12 years (since "40" days/years reoccur in scripture and has been interpreted as a "generation" then if the "480 years" can be interpreted as "12 generations" between the time of the Exodus and the building of the Temple then there is no real conflict with the conventional chronology.  But, yes, this is only "an interpretation".

You imply the conventional is righter than the biblical. I hold that the conventional  is wrong and biblical is right. I can't  see anyway to resolve this until either side is able to more fully prove the othersides criticisms/doubts.

I imply that the 480 years cannot be interpreted literally.  It has no underpinnings except maybe that there are periods in between the Exodus and the Temple comprised of "40 years".    

i.e.

40 years between the Exodus and the Conquest
40 years of the judgeship of Othniel
80 years (40 x 2) the land at peace after Ehud
40 years the land at peace after Deborah and Barak
40 years of the judgeship of Gideon
40 years under the Philistines
40 years of the judgeship of Eli
[40]? years of the kingship of Saul
40 years (7 in Judah + 33 over Israel) of the kingship of David

As you can see, figures of "40" (or multiples of it) occur frequently between the two events.  

There is no proof that Amarna was 1300s bc and the "multiple" "sources" are limited and not infallibly reliable.

Then you reject all the available documentation.    They don't need to be "infallible" to be excepted as evidence.   Your statement at least allows any reader (who cares) know that you ignore that evidence and that you rely on a number from a book of faith with unknown underpinnings.

I withdraw as i am disadvantaged by my situation esp the water. You win but i maintain my horizontal matches are right/stark even if i can't yet disprove the one vertical calculations counter argument.

At least you own your "right/stark" "horizontal matches".   The rest of us who want a serious and documented chronology for a reasonable historiography will rely on the inscriptional evidence.
 
(Incidentally there are close enough to 480 yrs from end of 12th dynasty to Ramses 2 in conventional chronology.)

So, your main argument is to find the "best fit" for the 480 years with the conventional chronology.   You then equate "Moses" with "end of 12th dynasty" and "Shishak" with Ramses II.  In doing so you put all the earliest kings of Israel right smack in the middle of the period when Egypt had complete domination over Canaan.   The documentation is quite clear, Canaan during this period was divided into petty city-kingdoms acknowledging the overlordship of the pharaohs.   The kingdom of Saul, David, and Solomon was independent, and during the time of David and Solomon extended to the Euphrates, itself.   It was a compact empire in its own right.   Sorry but your "best fit" doesn't really fit.

The bible is not one single source.

True, it is a series of "books" and letters from various authors.

Judges has 300 yrs to Jephthah

But that span isn't based on the "year of the Exodus".

Judges gives the years for all the Judges and servitudes.

which total more than the 480 years to the time of the construction of the Temple

Kings says 480 years in a pretty clear/precise not-figurative wording.

That is a matter of interpretation.

Paul said 450 yrs in Acts.

so, what's correct, 450 or 480?

Josephus says 592 years.

which proves that the 480 years cannot account for the entire period of the Exodus, Conquest, Judges and the kings before Solomon.

(Herodotus dates Moeris 900 years before Amasis or Amyrtaeus, and said chariots were lost in Sesostris reign.)

Herodotus is no authority on Egyptian chronology.   We don't even know how he arrives at his figure.  Sesostris (all of them) lived in the period before chariots even existed in Egypt!!!!   It was the Hyksos who brought the chariot to Egypt.   
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.066 seconds.