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evidence ancient Old World knew Americas?

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Arthur-Robin View Drop Down

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: evidence ancient Old World knew Americas?
    Posted: 09-Nov-2018 at 01:08
This thread/topic on 'evidences that ancient (middle east and) old world knew Americas / New World / Western hemisphere (and vice versa Americas knew Old world)' is a split from the one 'evidences ancient Egyptians knew Americas?" at , because after posting our wish to extend it to also include other ancient middle/near east and Old World cultures knowledge of Americas too (after points in the thread/topic 'basic questions on Sumer Egypt Indus China Peru' at ) we were since recently advised by moderator Sander that we should not make topic too broad to include other nations than Egyptians.

Was not sure of the best subforum for this thread (ancient mid east, general world history, americas, or intellectual discussions) but i picked this as seeming to be best hopefully.

One possibility for how they got there is that the sealevels were lower during Pleistocene ice ages, crossing by land bridges or rafts/canoes.

There are evidences that ice ages were contemporary with early ancient civilisations eg:
Sumerians were related to Combe-Capellids (near contemporaries of Cro-Magnons who were around during the last great maximum of the last ice age), plus the Sumerian floods might have been connected with interglacials?

Cambridge Ancient History is said to have give evidences that Old Kingdom climate was cooler/wetter (perhaps similar to Sphinx rain marks of Schoch?)

Mohenjo-daro climate was cooler and wetter and lower levels are flooded which may mean lower sea levels.

Ice Ages were post flood in biblical creationism.

Originally posted by Sharrukin

The Beringia land bridge was submerged by about 9,000 BC.  The Sumerians did not emerge until after 5300 BC when the southern part of Mesopotamia was settled.    So, NO, the timing is all wrong.

Originally posted by Sharrukin

The last ice age ended by about 9700 BC while the first settlements of southern Mesopotamia date from about 5300 BC so, NO they were not contemporary

Originally posted by Sharrukin

Mohenjo-Daro dates from about 2500 BC, hence some 7200 years AFTER the end of the last ice age.  The "Dancing Girl" statuette which dates from the time of the cities foundation was made of bronze, so Mohenjo-Daro was founded during the Bronze Age NOT the Ice Age!!!

Originally posted by Sharrukin

The last Ice Age ended by about 9700 BC.   The southern Mesopotamian flood levels date from about 3500 BC (Ur), 2900 BC (Kish, Shuruppak), and 2600 BC (Kish).   So, NO the Ice Ages were pre-Flood.

Originally posted by Sharrukin

Petrie wrote "The general conclusion as to the climate, then, seems to be that there has been no appreciable change in rain-fall, river-flow, or sand-blow during historic times."

The orthodox dates and dating systems are unreliable and unproven. There are evidences that the dates are wrong.
I already showed some for Sumer/Egypt/Indus (quoted above).
Job in bible also mentions ice.
Thor lowered sea levels in Eddaic.
Andes supposedly rose slowly over millenia and yet there are evidences they really rose quickly in lifetime of "modern" ancient humans and civilization.

There is also the possibility that the continents were still joint or were closer together than they are now, some think that Pangaea split during the flood, others thing it was during the days of Peleg when the earth was divided around about same time as Babel.

Originally posted by Sharrukin

The operative words here are "possibility", "some think", "others think".   Mere opinions with no names and/or credentials.   We cannot go by these opinions to draw conclusions.

Originally posted by Sharrukin

You ended in a question mark so you really don't know. 

Originally posted by Sharrukin

the operative word here is "may mean".  

But you/they are often/always asserting you have concrete facts when actually alot of your/their own orthodox "expert" "scientific" things are actually only unproven/unreliable theory not definite fact (and also ignore shelved out of place conflicting evidences).

You also make too much of my use of such words which are only casual and honest, because i do have evidences reasons for thinking such things are quite probable.

Originally posted by Sharrukin

Oh, and the ancient Egyptians did not have a flood story.

Egyptians have many flood stories including of: Atum; Sekhmet/Hathor; Osiris saved from water; Bennu/Phoenix; Thoth; Surid; Siriadic columns; Nun; 1st of 3 seasons called flood; Atlantis account; predynastic ark-like boats; etc.


I will repost this list of lands and peoples of Egypt and Mesopotamia, some of which might match Americas. Some of these lands/peoples locations are either not known for sure or their supposed locations may have evidences they are not right:

Mesopotamian lands/peoples:
?8 nagus around edge/outside of Babylonian world map # of double hours away
Anaku "tin land" "beyond the upper sea"
Akharru (hinder/western land)
Amurru (western land/sea)
Arali/Aralu "underworld" ("north-east"?)
Anedina (Anshan?)
"Asshur" (Genesis 10)
Apsu(wa) (subterranean fresh waters held by spell)
Cedar forest/mountain/country
Dilmun ("home in the far away")
Duku "holy mountain of heaven & earth"
Guedin (Gu/Guti?)
Gubi (Guti?)
Gushua "western/setting-sun country"
Kaptara "where pole star stands at zenith and amber fished from sea"
Kir (Kings/Chronicles/Prophets in Bible)
Kur "underworld, foreign land, land/country, mountain"
Kur-nu/na-gia "land of no return"
Lake Manu
Magan "boats/ships"
Mashu "twin peaks"
Martu (lapis lazuli, "Badakshan"?)
Meskiaggusheir went up into the mountains (some compare Andes/Atlas)
nungal (sea lands/emperor)
Niduki/Nituki (Dilmun)
Subartu/Sumasti/Suedin(hum)/Sirihum (Su/Suteans?)
Silver mountain/mines
Sealands (Iamutbal/Gambulu?)
Tiunu (Tianna)
Titisallat "sea coast"
Toakkari Sea Peoples bearing South American fan palm in Assyrian pictures according to Fitzgerald-Lee?

Ancient Egyptian lands/peoples:
9/10 bows/arcs of world (9th/10th described similar to arctic)
Aeria "fertile morning land"
Amenti "underworld"
Fankhu (Fenech/Feneth)
Great Pyramid geodesic info
Haunebut "Sea Peoples"
Hemu/Aamu "gentiles"
Heyerdahl's Ra & Kon Tiki voyages disproved his critics scepticism
island of the gods
Keftiou (ivory)
land of the Phoenix
Menes ebony label field and rings
Necho's fleet
Neterto/Toneter "holy/divine land"
npiam "Sea Peoples"
Punt ("Asian/eastern") & Hatshepsut's ships voyage
Piri Reis map centred on Cairo/Giza?
Pillars of Sesostris
Shipwrecked sailor
Shoal of Sesostris
Sin Wer "great water circle, ocean"
Sipan pyramids in Andes resemble 3 Pyramids of Giza.
Thoth came from a western land
Tritonis river (Aeria)
Urani/Wernes "land of the sunset, 12 divisions"
Wadj Wer "great green sea"
Zodiac of Denderah

NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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Arthur-Robin View Drop Down

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2018 at 03:11

Let us look more closely at some of these lands/peoples in the list in the previous post and see if their usual supposed locations might not be right and they might really be in Americas:

Anaku "tin land" in Mesopotamian. One book says Anaku was "beyond the upper sea (Mediterranean)"?

In history and in my atlas one of the most major location/sites for base metals (tin, copper, zinc, bronze, brass, oreichalc, lead) is the Andes/Peru area and Atlantis (others are Mexico, Indonesia, Irem the "city of brass/columns", Edremit, Cornwall, Tartessos, South Africa, Atlai mountains). (The closest sources to Sumer are western Asia Minor, and central Iran, and only one mark in each. Re Indonesia: someone mentioned in correspondence a decade ago news of a find that "Sumerians got their metals from Indonesia"?)

In Peru/Bolivia there is legend of a lost/sunken city Wanaku in the southern 'Huinaymarka' part of lake Titicaca, and this city actually seems to really be Tiwanaku/Tiahuanaco which we found matches Atlantis capital city. (Wanax/anax is also a word for "king" in Greek. Anak is "I/self" in Hittite? Ankh is "life" in Egyptian. Maybe also compare Fenech in biblical & Egyptian?)

The Anakim descendants of Anak in the bible were giants, and biblical giants had 6 fingers/toes. It is said that there are depictions of 6 digits at Tiahuanaco.

So it is perfectly posible that Anaku might be in Americas or that there was another namesake in Americas.

(Just re Tiwanku/Tiahuanaco: Enoch in bible, Teneduc in India/Ethiopia, Tenbuch/Timbuktoo in West Africa, Tenoch/Tenochtitlan in Mexico, Teotihuacan in Mexico, and Tiwanaku/Tiahuanaco in Peru are maybe similar?)

Edited by Arthur-Robin - 09-Nov-2018 at 03:58
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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red clay View Drop Down
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2018 at 14:50
I don't know what you call ancient, but there is solid evidence for a Roman occupation in Arizona, near Tucson at approx. 700-800ad

Google Tucson Artifacts.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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