evidence ancient Old World knew Americas?

This thread/topic on 'evidences that ancient (middle east and) old world knew Americas / New World / Western hemisphere (and vice versa Americas knew Old world)' is a split from the one 'evidences ancient Egyptians knew Americas?" at http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37758 , because after posting our wish to extend it to also include other ancient middle/near east and Old World cultures knowledge of Americas too (after points in the thread/topic 'basic questions on Sumer Egypt Indus China Peru' at http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36838 ) we were since recently advised by moderator Sander that we should not make topic too broad to include other nations than Egyptians.

Was not sure of the best subforum for this thread (ancient mid east, general world history, americas, or intellectual discussions) but i picked this as seeming to be best hopefully.

One possibility for how they got there is that the sealevels were lower during Pleistocene ice ages, crossing by land bridges or rafts/canoes.

There are evidences that ice ages were contemporary with early ancient civilisations eg: Sumerians were related to Combe-Capellids (near contemporaries of Cro-Magnons who were around during the last great maximum of the last ice age), plus the Sumerian floods might have been connected with interglacials?

Cambridge Ancient History is said to have give evidences that Old Kingdom climate was cooler/wetter (perhaps similar to Sphinx rain marks of Schoch?)

Mohenjo-daro climate was cooler and wetter and lower levels are flooded which may mean lower sea levels.

Ice Ages were post flood in biblical creationism.

Originally posted by Sharrukin The Beringia land bridge was submerged by about 9,000 BC.  The Sumerians did not emerge until after 5300 BC when the southern part of Mesopotamia was settled.    So, NO, the timing is all wrong.

Originally posted by Sharrukin The last ice age ended by about 9700 BC while the first settlements of southern Mesopotamia date from about 5300 BC so, NO they were not contemporary

 

Originally posted by Sharrukin Mohenjo-Daro dates from about 2500 BC, hence some 7200 years AFTER the end of the last ice age.  The "Dancing Girl" statuette which dates from the time of the cities foundation was made of bronze, so Mohenjo-Daro was founded during the Bronze Age NOT the Ice Age!!!

 

Originally posted by Sharrukin The last Ice Age ended by about 9700 BC.   The southern Mesopotamian flood levels date from about 3500 BC (Ur), 2900 BC (Kish, Shuruppak), and 2600 BC (Kish).   So, NO the Ice Ages were pre-Flood.

 

Originally posted by Sharrukin Petrie wrote "The general conclusion as to the climate, then, seems to be that there has been no appreciable change in rain-fall, river-flow, or sand-blow during historic times."

The orthodox dates and dating systems are unreliable and unproven. There are evidences that the dates are wrong.
I already showed some for Sumer/Egypt/Indus (quoted above).
Job in bible also mentions ice.
Thor lowered sea levels in Eddaic.
Andes supposedly rose slowly over millenia and yet there are evidences they really rose quickly in lifetime of "modern" ancient humans and civilization.

There is also the possibility that the continents were still joint or were closer together than they are now, some think that Pangaea split during the flood, others thing it was during the days of Peleg when the earth was divided around about same time as Babel.

 

Originally posted by Sharrukin The operative words here are "possibility", "some think", "others think".   Mere opinions with no names and/or credentials.   We cannot go by these opinions to draw conclusions.

 

Originally posted by Sharrukin You ended in a question mark so you really don't know.

 

Originally posted by Sharrukin the operative word here is "may mean".

But you/they are often/always asserting you have concrete facts when actually alot of your/their own orthodox "expert" "scientific" things are actually only unproven/unreliable theory not definite fact (and also ignore shelved out of place conflicting evidences).

You also make too much of my use of such words which are only casual and honest, because i do have evidences reasons for thinking such things are quite probable.

 

Originally posted by Sharrukin Oh, and the ancient Egyptians did not have a flood story.

Egyptians have many flood stories including of: Atum; Sekhmet/Hathor; Osiris saved from water; Bennu/Phoenix; Thoth; Surid; Siriadic columns; Nun; 1st of 3 seasons called flood; Atlantis account; predynastic ark-like boats; etc.

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I will repost this list of lands and peoples of Egypt and Mesopotamia, some of which might match Americas. Some of these lands/peoples locations are either not known for sure or their supposed locations may have evidences they are not right:

Mesopotamian lands/peoples:
?8 nagus around edge/outside of Babylonian world map # of double hours away
Anaku "tin land" "beyond the upper sea"
Agaru
Akharru (hinder/western land)
Amurru (western land/sea)
Arali/Aralu "underworld" ("north-east"?)
Aratta
Anedina (Anshan?)
"Asshur" (Genesis 10)
Amasis/Baris
Apsu(wa) (subterranean fresh waters held by spell)
Cedar forest/mountain/country
Dilmun ("home in the far away")
Dhidhi
Durash/Durilu?
Darala/Ebla/Ib(bi)la/Urashla
Duku "holy mountain of heaven & earth"
Edin
Guedin (Gu/Guti?)
Gubi (Guti?)
Gushua "western/setting-sun country"
Hurrum
Iarimuta
Kaptara "where pole star stands at zenith and amber fished from sea"
Kharsagkalama
Kir (Kings/Chronicles/Prophets in Bible)
Kur "underworld, foreign land, land/country, mountain"
Kimmash
Kur-nu/na-gia "land of no return"
Kugaki
Lake Manu
Magan "boats/ships"
Meluhha
Mashu "twin peaks"
Masis/Baris
Martu (lapis lazuli, "Badakshan"?)
Meskiaggusheir went up into the mountains (some compare Andes/Atlas)
mooring-post
Nisir/Nimush
Nibiru
nungal (sea lands/emperor)
Niduki/Nituki (Dilmun)
Simmash
Subartu/Sumasti/Suedin(hum)/Sirihum (Su/Suteans?)
Shuba?
Silver mountain/mines
Sealands (Iamutbal/Gambulu?)
Tilla?
Tiunu (Tianna)
Titnum
Titisallat "sea coast"
Toakkari Sea Peoples bearing South American fan palm in Assyrian pictures according to Fitzgerald-Lee?

Ancient Egyptian lands/peoples:
9/10 bows/arcs of world (9th/10th described similar to arctic)
Aeria "fertile morning land"
Aa(en)ru/Aalu
Atlantis
Amenti "underworld"
Fankhu (Fenech/Feneth)
Great Pyramid geodesic info
Ginti?
Haunebut "Sea Peoples"
Hemu/Aamu "gentiles"
Hyksos
Heyerdahl's Ra & Kon Tiki voyages disproved his critics scepticism
island of the gods
Keftiou (ivory)
land of the Phoenix
Menes ebony label field and rings
Necho's fleet
Neterto/Toneter "holy/divine land"
npiam "Sea Peoples"
Punt ("Asian/eastern") & Hatshepsut's ships voyage
Pet
Piri Reis map centred on Cairo/Giza?
Pillars of Sesostris
Rosetau
Shipwrecked sailor
Shoal of Sesostris
Sin Wer "great water circle, ocean"
Sipan pyramids in Andes resemble 3 Pyramids of Giza.
Tuat
Thoth came from a western land
Tritonis river (Aeria)
Urani/Wernes "land of the sunset, 12 divisions"
Wadj Wer "great green sea"
Zodiac of Denderah

I don't know what you call ancient, but there is solid evidence for a Roman occupation in Arizona, near Tucson at approx. 700-800ad

Google Tucson Artifacts.