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Abortion: is it murder?

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Poll Question: What i,s abortion to your point of view?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
67 [49.63%]
68 [50.37%]
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Abortion: is it murder?
    Posted: 31-May-2005 at 13:41
I really wondered were AE members stood on the issue
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 13:47
Yes because each human has a purpose endowed by the creator, whoever that is???????

The big heartless computer in the sky-

I am not opposed to a woman making that choice but, at least in the U.S., they should be required to go through counseling before they make that decision so they can learn about the risks and options. There are still a certain % of women who become sterile after one or more abortion. I know someone who became sterile in that manner, but it is not as bad as it use to be.

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 13:55

since you are amking abortion,being sterile doesn't matter

that is a very low possibility

but it is true that it gives a little,tiny damage

my vote:

NO,it is not murder

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 14:26

It is murder, because organic life is organic life, but it is certainly a beneficial factor for the control of world population.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 14:36

Every embrio to be aborted is a living human, just like you and me, doesnt mater two days old or two months old. Some adults make mistakes, but their ex children pays the price of their guilt. This is disgusting, and inhumane.

But in some conditions, such as rape and defective baby, abortion can be considered, but in a limited time after the forming of the embrio, like two months...

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 14:42

Originally posted by eaglecap

Yes because each human has a purpose endowed by the creator, whoever that is???????

To be blown up by a bomb for instance.

I've never really understood the mentality of US conservative abortionists. Abortion's a crime but a bomb from a US plane landing on a school or hospital is justified.

They're terribly ill and misguided people.

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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 14:48

Abortion is a democratical right for women.But when a nation or country faces the problem of low birthrate,in red degree,then it shoud be under special conditons or prohibited.

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 15:16
Originally posted by Spartakus

Abortion is a democratical right for women.



Agreed!

But when a nation or country faces the problem of low birthrate,in red degree,then it shoud be under special conditons or prohibited.



Not agreed! Are you saying that in the case of a low or negative birthrate, women should be forced to breed. What happened to their democratic rights then? Temporary disbanded?
And what about men? Should Condoms and any other form of birthcontrol that men could practise, also be prohibited?
Explain!
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  Quote Ionian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 15:47
  NO its not murder.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 16:53

it's prevention of life, if you want to call that murder is open to anyones interpretation...

 

personally if a couple is too dumb to use condoms or the pill or whatever they deserve having a baby, but on the other hand some couples shouldn't have children at all, there are too many occations were women get ridd of their unwanted babies or even kill them. but then, how dumb are some couples..."hey, let's have sex for fun", and later complain "I had no idea sex could lead to children!" maye the EU should issue warning shields like they have with cigarettes, saying "caution! Sex could lead to children and responsibility!"....

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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 16:59

Abortion is murder because it is a human being genetically.

I do not feel it is right to force values on others though so I feel that the people themselves should decide if abortion is right or wrong.

I've never really understood the mentality of US conservative abortionists. Abortion's a crime but a bomb from a US plane landing on a school or hospital is justified.

I dislike statements such as these because both cases ARE wrong, but whether we choose to justify one or the other doesn't mean that either is wrong or right.

This question is too broad for instance do we accept only 1st trimester or 2nd trimester abortions, or are 3rd trimester abortions to be included as well, if that's the case then is the child that can survive outside the womb denied their basic human rights at the whim of the mother.

Also if that is the case then can a mother decide to commit infanticide because she cannot take care of the child.

I mean abortion is a slippery slope and morals are a major part of it, basically the question comes down to when you consider someone human and alive. Culture dictates when this is, but I feel that biologically something should be given rights when it is a unique and separate from another organism. Whether it be an internal parasite or not.

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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 17:21
It is tricky because it has to do with the definition of when birth starts. It especially gets murky when one has to deal with the health of the mother and the realities of horrible illnesses.

Theoretically, the conceptus is a human being. However, no rational person can claim that an almost microscopic cell is a human. I know that religious people will argue with this point, but it really comes to an ethical test:
If a fertility clinic is on fire and we absolutely have to choose between a living adult and the cells, should we rescue the living breathing human beings, or the cells on plastic dishes?

I cringe thinking about those who would save the plastic dishes.

But let us argue from the other extreme. Is a nine-month-old fetus a human? I would say it is. Is an eight, seventh, a human. Yes. Most healthy baby can be born at these points and survive.

Are six, five, and four-month-old fetuses human? Maybe. I don't know. I would say that this is probably where we actually begin to have a human being.

From this I would say that abortion becomes more objectionable as the pregnancy goes on. As a matter of fact, most abortions are done early in the pregnancy, back at the point where they are mostly a bundle of cells.

Most people who carry a child for three or more months want to have it. If they abort, it has to do with medical complications to the mother or horrible illnesses that the child has. I don't have a problem with this. It is at the discretion of the mother.

If it were the life of a third trimester fetus or the mother, I would leave the decision to the mother. Some people are willing to die for a child. Some people have other children to take care of, so they cannot give their lives for the sake of another child. It depends, and we should respect the parents decision.


If it the life of a second trimester fetus or the mother, and the fetus has a small probability to survive, I believe that the mother has priority. The chances of survival for the fetus are small, and there is already an alive human who is at risk.

If the child is going to have a horrible genetic disease and this is known in the second semester, the fetus should be aborted. The resulting child will suffer greatly, and the energy and resources that the mother, the family and society has to pour into keeping these people alive are not worth it. But again, I would respect the decision of the parents.

If a horrible disease is found in the third trimester, I find it justifiable to abort, if that is what the parents want.

As a final note, I want to state that many, although not all, people who are anti-abortion are dodging their responsibilities. Science fiction has been warning humans for the last 200 years that we shouldnt play god. We did, and now we have to make life-and-death decisions. It is a horrible responsibility, but we must take it because our decision affects other people in our family.

Having abortion illegal takes away this decision from people. In fact, many anti-abortionist activists are people who decided to end the life of a conceptus or fetus and regretted later. They blame society for allowing them to make the decision.

The cruel reality is that illegal or not, we are still have to make this decision. We have to grow up; being an adult is making difficult decisions and living with the consequences. It is not a pretty situation, but it is reality.
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  Quote Idanthyrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 18:46

Originally posted by JanusRook

I've never really understood the mentality of US conservative abortionists. Abortion's a crime but a bomb from a US plane landing on a school or hospital is justified.

I dislike statements such as these because both cases ARE wrong, but whether we choose to justify one or the other doesn't mean that either is wrong or right.

I think the point he was trying to make was that we often do try to justify one over the other.

I personally think that using abortions as birth control is horrible, but I do not think that they should be banned. There are many different conditions where a fetus may be endangering it's mother's life that are undiagnosible untill well after the pregnancy is underway. The same goes for terminal conditions that affect the fetus itself.

Another thing that should be considered is that if abortions were banned we would simply be returing to the days of backyard abortions when mortality was high and the practice was still common. Making it a crime doesn't mean that they will magically stop happening.

I think education is still the most powerfull tool to prevent unneccisary abortions.



Edited by Idanthyrus
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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 19:09
Of course it is muder.  Murder is taking away someones right to live.  Is that not what people do with abortions?  They are taking away the right of that child to live.  Sad that anyone would even think of it as not murder.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 19:43

Another point of is how many anti-abortionists are pro comprehensive sex education in school and the free availability of contraception to children of all ages?

 

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 19:57
I have mixed feelings so i dont vote in this poll.
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  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 20:24
The government should not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body.


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  Quote TheOrcRemix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 20:53

Its not murder.

if a girl gets raped, then she would have to live with this, her job could be a disaster, and after the child is born, she will have to care for it. doesn't seem fair. and if abortion is legal, than all girls will say they got raped. its a hard suject :/

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  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2005 at 22:55

Originally posted by Illuminati

The government should not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body.


I could not agree more !!!!

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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 00:04

The government should not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body.

So the gov't shouldn't get involved when a woman [or any person for that matter] wants to kill herself, or slit her wrists, or cut off an arm. It's not the actions that someone does, its the reasons why they do it that I believe the gov't should get involved with though.

 Murder is taking away someones right to live. 

Actually Murder is ending someone's life voluntarily. Taking away someone's right to live [their life] is what extremist anti-abortionists do.

There are many different conditions where a fetus may be endangering it's mother's life that are undiagnosible untill well after the pregnancy is underway. The same goes for terminal conditions that affect the fetus itself.

Abortion is acceptable in cases where a natural abortion (miscarriage) would occur and the mother would almost certainly die, i.e. Tube pregnancies.

However, no rational person can claim that an almost microscopic cell is a human.

What do you define as human? I define it as an organism that shares the genetic structure of human beings. I believe that means that a zygote, embryo, fetus are human. Or do you believe that a child who isn't fully grown not human? They are just different stages of humanity.

the child is going to have a horrible genetic disease and this is known in the second semester, the fetus should be aborted. The resulting child will suffer greatly, and the energy and resources that the mother, the family and society has to pour into keeping these people alive are not worth it. But again, I would respect the decision of the parents.

The parents should only be allowed to make this decision after a doctor has "prescribed" this as an option. Else what qualifies as a genetic disease? Cystic Fibrosis is a good choice for genetic disease where the child wont likely live to be old. But then again what about down's syndrome, many afflicted live relatively long fulfilling lives is this a genetic disease that requires abortion. If we keep going down this ledge then being a girl or having blue eyes could be considered genetic "disorders" liable for abortion. Should we allow parents who only want boys to be able to kill a child on a whim?

 

Also I feel that women who get raped should have free counseling available paid by the state, via the offending party paying damages. Which should aid in their choice.

I also feel that the adoption policy in the US should be less strict and regulated as this only causes more children to end up in fostor homes.

(  Those fostor "parents" should not be paid for taking care of children, that is just ridiculous.)

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