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12 battles of "(King) Arthur"
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Posts: 937 		  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 12 battles of "(King) Arthur"
    Posted: 18-Jan-2017 at 00:44
Sorry but I can't re-do (yet again) anymore or any better than this in my socio-economic situation. I have already darn given plenty enough quality & quantity evidences. Aside from the bad situation (including poison/fluoridated tap water), and that i have other things that i need/want to do, the computer radiation seems to be causing major humming in my head and harming my mental ability/health too. The enemy is just trying to stop me doing other things, and trying to destroy me, and what is point of succeeding if it kills me? Mis-call it "sloppy" if you want but it is not my fault, it is impossible in this social situation.
I quit. This is ridiculous being meanly forced to have to (clearly) explain every tiny little jot and tiddle as if to total morons, or else if i can't then the establishment refuse to credit me for what connections and hard work i have done. They are doing it lyingly on purpose. No doubt they will claim "oh well some people succeed and some don't". But i say they purposely heavily stamp some of us down socially etc.

I am sorry for some repetition between some sections in the chapter, it can't be helped. I am not anymore tolerating mean nasty peoples attacks about things like "repetition" etc. All books, papers, etc i have seen have repetitions in them (eg the fresno notes to the Geste of RH). The mean cruel critics call us "sloppy", and lyingly claim that they "can't intuit what [we] are try to show", etc, and then when we do all their forced slavery excessive hard work they criticise us for "repetition" etc.

I am sorry but i simply do not have the time and situation to spell out to totally ignorant. (I have already spent about 3 years.)

Guinnion is the 5th battlesite of 9, and 8th battle of 12 battles of "(King) Arthur" in the Historia Britonum of "Nennius".
Dover is a place in Kent in s.w. England.
Dubris is Saxon Shore fort of the Notita Dignitatum, and matches Dover.
Mt Eidyn / Eidyn 2 is the 6th battle/site of Arthur in the Pa Gur.
(Arddunion is battle of Gwallawg in Taliesin's words.)

These 4 or 5 places all match.
(Our discovery was that the 12 battles  (9 battle sites) of Arthur of the HB of Nennius match 9 Saxon Shore sites from Great Yarmouth to Portsmouth.)

I have damn said it clearly enough damn times and yet certain people claim they don't know what i mean.

This map that i already posted link to clearly shows what i mean. And yet they say they don't know what i mean.
http://2rbetterthan1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/map-12battleska-9fortsss2.png

The table in the very first post shows what i mean.

I am a researcher etc, not a popular writer etc. I don't see the establishment offering me any help or offering me some other way to present (eg spoken).

The enemy is just slaving me forcing me to write it all in perfect English or else they lyingly refuse to know and admit what our discovery is. People are totally damn lazy and expect me to do all the work while they don't have to make any effort at all; i am only abit lazy and am alot unable because disadvantaged situation.

Now the explanation of 20 identification details of the battle site of Guinnion and their matches with Dover.

i. the number/order ("5th" site of "9" sites).

The HB has a set of 9 battle sites of Arthur (which match 9 of 10 actual sites from Brancaster to Portsmouth).
The ND has a set of 9 Saxon Shore forts (which match 9 of 10 actual sites from Yarmouth to Portsmouth).
Each and all of "only" 8 of the 9 battle sites of Arthur/Nennius/HB (& actual sites) match each and all of "only" 8 of the 9 Saxon Shore sites of the ND (and actual sites) all in numerical & geographical order (which can not be coincidence) from Yarmouth to Portsmouth.

The ND(-&-actual) has "extra" 1st fort that HB(-&-actual) doesn't; and the ND(-&-actual) doesn't have 4th site of HB(-&-actual). The HB(-&-actual) has "extra" 4th site that ND(-&-actual) doesn't, and the HB(-&-actual) doesn't have 1st fort of ND(-&-actual).

8 matching HB & SS/ND sites, plus the "extra" 1st SS/ND fort, plus the "extra" 4th HB site, makes 10 actual SS sites from Brancaster to Portsmouth.

5th HB site Guinnion matches 6th SS/ND site Dover/Dubris (and both match 6th PG site Eidyn).
The minor cross-switch match of 5th & 6th sites between HB & SS/ND is confirmed in other sources. (HB is in battles order, SS/ND is in sites order. Perhaps "Arthur" didn't fight them all in order lest the Saxons knew which site was next? This may be one reason why was a great victory? Plus, the 5th & 6th SS sites are not far from each other in same Kent region.)

Guinnion 5th/8th of 9/12 battle/sites (HB),
Dover/Dubris 6th of 9 forts (SS/ND),
Eidyn 6th of 9 battle(site)s (PG),
Cursalen/Kaicester 6th of 9/11 consuls (HRB),
Arddunion [4th/6th] of [9/11],
Glasgwin 6th/7th of 12 monasteries,
Gwrdnei 5th of 7,
clydno Eidyn 5th of 13  treasures,
DuoRig Habren 5th of "13/14" wonders?

All other locations theories do not have a match of the numbers/order, they only match the 9 HB sites with artificial associations of 9 unnumbered sites, not with an attested list/group of 9 numbered sites like ours.

5th battle site Guinnion [Dover/Dubris] is near 6th battle site city of the Legion [Richborough/Rutupi]; Dover/Dubris [Guinnion] is near Richborough/Rutupi [city of the legion]; "Dubricius of Legions" in HRB implies that Legions is near Dubris/Dover.

The 12 battles are 9 battle sites since battles 2-5 were in same 1 site, and "Nennius" lists all 9 in order. Since the first 3 are all rivers, and 2 of the middle 3 are settlements, and the last 2 of the last 3 are mountains/hills, the 9 (3x3) battle sites is considered by some to have possibly been 3 sets of 3 rivers, 3 settlements and 3 hills. [Sites 3 and 4 are switched in some lists.] The middle 3 battle sites #s 4-6 (Celidon or Bassas, Guinnion, Legions) as all settlements matches our 3 sites in Kent (Aylesford or Reculver, Richborough/Rutupi, Dover/Dubris). Compare the "3 renowned cities" of another source?

ii. a "battle/siege" (Arthur victory, Saxons flight/pursued/great slaughter)

We can't yet absolutely prove archaeologically in the site ground (or in non-"unreliable" records) that the battle was actually fought there then, we can only give some seeming possible evidences so far found. Though the evidence is overwhelming that the 9 battlesites of Arthur of the HB of Nennius match the 9 Saxon Shore forts in names/meanings & natures/details/geographies & numbers/order.

Archaeological evidence that battle (of Guinnion) fought there & then may include:
"late Saxon cemetary around St Mary de Castro"?
The fort, and possible physical traces of battle/s there (eg the lighthouse looks possibly damaged?) (The only building standing now is lighthouse.)

Strategic evidence that battle (of Guinnion) fought there & then may include:
"[those who control the SE have the main power/hold in Britain]"?
There are roads linking our sites. "another Roman road between Woodnes-borough and Dover." Canterbury is at intersection of roads to 3/4/5 of our battle sites.

Records evidence that battle (of Guinnion) fought there & then may include:
The 12 battles / 9 battle sites of the HB definitely match the 9 Saxon Shore sites (in names/meanings, natures/geographies/details and numbers/order), with the 5th battle site of Guinnion certainly matching Dover/Dubris.
Collingwood said Nennius' words implied that "Arthur was fighting Saxons & specifically Kentishmen".
The battle of Badon of sources other than the HB (like the Badon of the AC which some compare with Guinnion of the HB) seemingly may match Braddon at Dover.
The battlesite of Eidyn 2 of the Pa Gur also seems to match Dover.
'St Martin le Grand' at Dover (&/or St Martin's at Canterbury) may possibly suggest battle [war god Mars], & "great slaughter"/"great victory"?

The eclipse (on the 16th of Feb, the 14th day) before the kalends Martii (the 1st of March) 538 in the ASC & Ethelwerd may possibly be connected with our 5th/8th battle of the Cross in Guinnion at Dover (St Martin le Grand) (Leon Mintz's paper gave tentative evidence of possible connection of Martin and Ares/Mars and Arthur/Merlin), and the eclipse of kalends iulius 540 of the ASC & Ethelwerd may possibly be connected with our 6th/9th battle of city of the legion (St Julius) at Rutupi/Richborough (near landing place of Julius Caesar). One/both of the 538 &/or 540 events may match the traditional "great victory of Arthur over the Saxons on St David's (birth)day (1st March) 540 or 640", which must be either Guinnion of HB or Badon of AC.

Egonesham/Ignesham 571 (ASC) may be a later re/taking by Saxons of Guinnion/Dover. The 571 sites were hitherto considered to be in Bedford/Buckingham, but some doubt this. Three of the 571 sites match 3 of the battle sites of Arthur of HB (Guinnion [Dover], Legions [Rutupi/Richborough], Bassas [Reculver]), and from this and from other ASC entries it seems possible that these sites might be our battlesites in Kent (or else the 571 sites may be analogous namesakes).

Records or/and archaeology:
"510-555 emigration of Angles & Frisians to the Continent".
"British strategy seems to have been to allow Saxon landings and to then contain them, there."
"488-547 only landings of Saxons on the coast". (Another source says Saxons/battles "were largely limited to the coast", though at abit earlier date.)


iii. the "in/near/at"

The HB says the battle of Guinnion (of Arthur) was fought "in/near/at" the fort(let) (of) Guinnion.
It does look like the battle might have been fought near/by/around/in the Dover lighthouse? Or, the battle might have been fought within Drop Redoubt on Dover Western Heights, on the highest point of the hill (see detail xx on Guinnion correspondence with Badon).

iv. the "castellum/*dunon/lesc / fort(let)" (of) Guinnion.

Arthur's 8th battle of 12 (but 5th battle site of 9) was fought in/near/at the "castellum/*dunon/lesc / fort(let)" (of) Gunnion.

The word castello/castellum might connect with 'St Mary in Castro/Castle' church (which is beside the Dover lighthouse/pharos), though this depends on whether the Castro could be refering to an eariler castle and not just the later medieval castle.

The castellum/fortlet is probably the Dover lighthouse/pharos which is prominent in photos, and which seems to be the tower/castle in the Modena Archivolt. (The HB implies that the fort itself was white? The lighthouse looks white-ish in photograph?) Perhaps compare the rook/castle in chess?

[Castellum may mean "a castle of/or a fortified town"?] Scathing critics had attacked us smartly pointing-out that castellum means fortlet not (a massive) fort. (I say they are at fault for always not correctly translating in English.) Though other Arthurian/Welsh sources with synonymous or analogous places (/) names also have word (translated in English as) "fort" too:
- fort Guinnion.
- St Guinefort.
- The fortress on a lofty "Saxon Rock" in the region Arestel nearby the narrows of Godalente.
- Galafort.
[- some say siege/obsessio implies a fort.]
- Arddunoin "fortress height".
- din Eidyn/"Edin-burgh" [~ Mt Eidyn].
- Lofty wood-clad rock dinas Emrys / Vast insulated rock dinas Emris?
- Dum-barton/Dunbrettan "fort of the Britons/Britain".
- 'Caer Baris'/"Dorchester" "by the sea"?
- "Win-chester"/Kaer-guen/Guintonhi.
- Cursalen of Kai-cester (6th).
- "Castle of Windsor" (Yseut).
- "Chastel de Snowdon(ie)/Isneldone ["snow hill"]" (RT, Yseut).
- Castell y Morwynion.
- Castle Dore?
- castle Ewen?
- Grail Castle?
- "Guinevere" & castle/tower in Modena Archivolt.
- Tower of Hercules (Galicia)?
- Y-Bryn-gwyn / Gwyn-fryn "White Tower/Hill".

(Castle of Maidens appears to be Anderida/Pevensey / Agned/Bregion, not Dover/Dubris / Guinnion.)

The "fort(let)" must be one of the structures/buidlings at Dover/Dubris (a list of which includes: the 2 lighthouses/pharos, the 2 SS (& CB) forts, the Dover Painted House, the St Martin le Grand church, St Mary in Castro/Castle church, the Harold's Earthwork).

v(a). the name "Guinnion/*Alborum".

The 5th battle site of Arthur is named "Guinnion".

Jackson proposed that Guinnion = *Alborum, and this matches Dover whose white cliffs considered to have given name Albion for Britain.

We have definite stark match for the meaning of this name, but can't totally prove that Dover was actually called "Guinnion" in other historical records, but there are a number of possible evidences that Dover was called Guinnion ("white") :
- 'Guindoin' of some HB/Nennius versions might combine both guin & dover?
- Y-Bryn-gwyn / Gwyn-fryn "White Hill/Tower" supposedly in London but "facing France" (Bran story)?
- "the earth shall swallow up "Winchester"/Guintonhi/Kaerguen" of the Prophecy of Merlin fits Dover (cliffs/heights/downs).
- "to Doguuinus/Docguinnus he gave Llanddyfrwyr" (Sts Lives)?
- Gawain died/buried/skull at Dover in some sources?
- Guiderius/Gwyryd and Genuissa/Gwenwisa  daughter of Julius Caesar or Claudius (who landed near Dover/Deal/Richborough)?
- Windover?
- Egonesham/Ignesham/Eynsham of the ASC 571 entry might be Dover. The 571 sites have been supposed to be in Bedford/Buckinghamshire, but some doubt this. 3 of the 571 entry sites seem to match 3 of our battle sites of Arthur/Nennius (Guinnion, Legions, Bassas) [later Saxon re/taking or else analogous namesakes], and from this and from other ASC entries it seems like these could match our 3 sites in Kent (Dover, Richborough, Reculver) or else they could be analogous namesakes.
[- Euan/Eafe (Kentish, 'Pa Halgan')?]
- "Guinevere" & castle/tower in Modena Archivolt (in which the castle/tower looks alot like Dover lighthouse).
- Guendoloena/Gwenddolau might contain/combine both names Guinnion & Dover?
- Wihtgarasburh/"Carisbrooke" (ASC)?
- caer Guidn, land's end, is analogous to Dover [Guinnion]?

For other claimed candidates:
Jackson said Guinnion can't be Binchester/Vinovia lingusitically.

v(b). the meaning "white".

The name (fort) Guinnion/Gurnion/Guindoin/*Alborum may mean "white/bright fort", and/or is considered to be from guin(n)/gwyn(n)/gwen/finn "white, fair, blond, bright, brilliant, blessed(ness), holy", or vind-o "clear/white" (though Jackson says can't be nn/nd interchange), or venta "place"/"a plain", or bin/*vino- "wine/vine", +, ion/iog/guic "standard place name ending", or *vindiones "(the) white people"?

Dover is famously well-known for its White Cliffs which some think gave the name of Britain 'Albion'. (Dover is in the North Downs chalk hills.)

The HB implies that the actual fort(let) was white? Dover lighthouse/pharos looks white-ish? ("White" could also/alternatively link with word light-house?)

Compare these from Dover fort archaeology: “The south wall … built of … chalk blocks set in a hard white mortar….” & “… part of a chalk-built barrack block of the Classis Britannica Fort was found…”

This "white" is prominent throughout Arthurian/Welsh tradition and thus must refer to a most-prominent white-associated place/region like Dover/Downs.
Eg: Guinnion/*Alborum "white"; Breguoin "(white) hills"; Ty Gwyn "white house" or "a strand"; Aeneas Yswwydwyn "White Shield"; St Alban('s); Albanact; Albani (HRB); Albion; 'Snowdon/Isneldone' "snow hill"; Hwiterne "white house"? Wihtgarasburh? "white town / town of white stone" / Wigracester/"Chester" 584? Picts?

"White people" could possibly link with that it is said that Albion "white" might refer to the original ancient Britons/Celts rather than white cliffs? [Compare name 'Picts'...?]

Regarding the "holy" meaning, there is some possible evidences that Dover was a holy site. It might connect with the glass vessel at Dover, which might be connected with the holy grail and with Mary/Gwenwisa/Igraine/Guinevere/Yseut?

vi. fought by "(dux) Arthur"/"(kings of the) Britons" (or "Picts").

We can't necessarily yet absolutely prove that "Arthur" and/or the Britons were there then (as opposed to hitherto "the south-east quarter was Anglo-Saxon" opinion of orthodox academics). However some scholars in recent times are disputing this (eg Ken Dark), and recent sources admit that the Saxons/Britons situation/sceanrio is far from certain. We can only give some evidences collated so far from old and new sources.

Possible evidences for "Arthur" and/or the Britons being in our Dover area of Kent then includes:
"Arthur" fought the (West) Saxons who were mainly in the south-east quarter. (He is said to have fought Cerdic & Colgrin & Baldulph.)
Kent & Canterbury are Celtic/British/Welsh names.
Little or no Saxon graves Canterbury.
Medway was border/boundary between Britons & Saxons not long before.
The Weald may have been like refuge for Britons.
South-East places mentioned in traditional Arthurian sources include Dover, Chislehurst, [Riculf?], Rutupi (where some say Gawain died), Canterbury?, London?, Winchelsea.
Arthurian/Welsh sources mention names similar to Dover/Dubris/Dour &/or Dorobernia (Canterbury) &/or Durobrivae (Rochester).
(E.g.: castle Dore? Earl (of) Doorn? Dubricus of aber-Gavenny? Dubricius? Dyfrig? Dubriactus? "Dorchester"? DuoRig Habren? Darian Las? Llanddyfrwyr? "Dunbar" (fort)? Doglas? Dobar?)
"Wurdesten speaks of the Britons leaving their ancestral land when the Saxons occupied it"?
Some suggest 2 groups of settlers [in Kent]: 1st Anglo-Saxon, 2nd Franks "who broke the dynasty of Kentish kings ... of which we hear no more after 512"?]
["Arthur" could possibly be the pre-Augustine Christian "Ethelbert" of ASC?]

It is possible that the medieval skeleton found in Dover Painted House might be "Arthur" or Nennius? "Mt Etna" is a reputed burial place of Arthur (and "Sicily" is a claimed Avalon candidate), and we show in this chapter that Mt Eidyn is Guinnion/Dover. (Etna is near strait of Messina which is analogous to straits of Dover.) (Our findings from various evidences is that "Arthur" was laid to rest at site of the Reculver Cross, but he may have later been shifted to somewhere like Dover or Glastonbury.)

(The "Picts" of the later Liber Floridus version of St Omer is too long to discuss here. Sufice to say that either (1) we are wrong, or (2) St Omer is Wrong, or (3) the name "Picts" doesn't refer to the assumed Picts of north Scotland. We are certainly not wrong that the 9 battle sites of Arthur match the 9 Saxon Shore sites. St Omer could certainly be wrong. (Note: compare 'dux bellorum' (HB), 'dux Pictorum' (LF), 'dux britanniarum' (ND?).) There is certaily evidences suggesting that "Picts" (and "Caledonian") can refer to other Britons. ....)

vii. the "cross/sign"

Arthur bore Cross &/or Mary at the battle of Guinnion. Candidate matches with Dover:
"relics from Dover in the same collection, including a superb circular brooch set with garnets and pearls in a cruciform design"?
"The Latin cross occurs further on a jewelled brooch, replacing the T-shaped settings sometimes found in Kent ; but the cross may here be purely ornamental."
The Celtic Cross on St Mary church at Dover? [Compare "druid circle & Xtian cross = Celtic cross"?]
A traditional Welsh Arthurian source mentions in same entry the Cross/Crucifiction and Gwenwisa daughter of Julius Caesar or Claudius (who landed near Dover/Deal/Richborough).
Cross of fort Guinnon matches sign of the cross (on door) at Galafort, and Galafort has matches with Dover.
Arthur's Cross ~ the Cross of Calvary ~ 'Galvarium' on Modena Archivolt (which seemingly shows Dover lighthouse or castro, with the name "Guinevere")?

(The cross that "Arthur" had at Guinnion and supposed to be at "Wedale" may match the Reculver Cross (not that far from Dover, in the same county of Kent).)

[Arthur's Cross of Guinnion might connect with Cross of Constantine, and with St Andrew's Cross of Athelstaneford 836, which might possibly connect with eclipse of calends of Martii 538 in ASC. (The calends of Martii 358 and calends of Julius 540 entries of the ASC may be connected with our Guinnion/Dover and 'Legions'/Rutupi/Richborough, and with "the great victory of Arthur over Saxons on St David's day 540 (or 640)".)]

viii. the "(Lord Jesus) Christ"/"God"/"Saviour"

Arthur's "Lord Jesus Christ" in the battle of Guinnion (of the HB of Nennius) may possibly be conflated with  Julius Caesar (who landed near Dover/Deal).
(Perhaps compare Gwenwisa/Genuissa daughter of Julius Caesar or of Claudius?)
Kent is linked with Christ and St Mary in 694 in chronicles.

ix. the (image of) "holy Virgin / holy Mary / St Mary / perpetual virgin / mother (of God/Arthur)" [Mari Lwyd].

Arthur bore image of Cross &/or Mary at Guinnion. This has definite match(es) with Dover:

'St Mary in Castro' church at Dover (which sources say may date as early as 600 ad).
"Eternal virgin" = ever white Dover.
(Gwyn means both/either "white" &/or "holy".)
Kent is linked with Christ and St Mary in 694 in chronicles.
Mary of Guinnion (HB) ~ Marsia/Martia & 'Caer Baris'/"Dorchester" "by the sea" (24 Kings & 33 Cities) ~ Dover?
'St Mary on the Rock' of Fife is analogous to Dover?
Photo and name of 'Santa Maria de Bretona' church & tower in Galicia looks similar to the lighthouse & St Mary in Castro church of Dover, while its name recalls Mary of Guinnion (of HB), and Artus de Bretania (of Modena Archivolt). (S.M. de Bretona was a Celtic bishopric from ca 569 not long after our approximate date for battle of Guinnion/Badon.)
There is a glass vessel at Dover which may possibly connect with the (Holy) Grail which in turn has been connected with Mary.
Dover's name might link with Dwy "Goddess" which could link with Mary?
The Modena Archivolt shows a tower/castle which looks alot like Dover lighthouse (or castro), and has the name "Guinevere" [Guanhumara] which may match (Mary [Mara] of) castellum Guinnion.
Mary of Guinnion could be connected with Gwenwisa/Genuissa daughter of Julius Caesar or Claudius (who landed near Dover/Deal/Richborough) [though may not because Mary is mother and Gwenwisa is daughter]?
Yseut of "castle of Windsor" & Yseut of "castle of Snowdon" may match Mary of castellum Guinnion, and "Snowdon" well matches Dover.
[Mary might possibly also link with Euan/Eafe of Kentish ('Pa Halgan')?]
Also possibly compare: "Winchester, a lofty tower ... found/ed in honour of Mary" in 908, since "Winchester"/Guintonhi in Arthurian seems to match Guinnion & Dover.
(The Cross and) St Mary of Guinnion [& Wedale] of Arthur also connects with St Mary of Reculver (not far from Dover, also in Kent).
Mary of Guinnion of the 12 battles of Arthur of Nennius might be connected with the Book of Hours of the Virgin & St Ninnian [of St Martin's, Hwiterne], and St Martin's Hwiterne "white house" may link with both Dover (white, St Martin le Grand) and Guinnion (white fort)?

Mary might link with Morwynion, or Morfyn "sea hill", or Moridunon "sea fort", or Morwenstow?

* We suggest that Mary, Igraine, Guinevere, Yseut, Morgana, Gwenwisa, Eafe, etc may be connected with Dover/Guinnion and each other.

(Not sure of the match for the image.)

x. the (carried/bore (up)on) "shoulder(s)/shield".

At battle of Guinnion "Arthur" bore Cross &/or Mary (up)on his Shoulder/s or Shield. Either or both well matches Dover:

The shoulder(s)/humeros/(i)scuid may match (at Dover) either:
- W & E Heights at Dover.
- The (North (& South)) Downs.
- “…a scapula [&/or thigh] believed to be a relic of St Alban…” (sent from European church to St Albans church in modern times).
[St Alban('s) = Dover/Albion = Guinnion/*Alborum.]
- Guan-humara/Guinevere (whose name links with Guinnion, and who appears in the Modena Archivolt which depicts a castle/tower that looks alot like Dover lighthouse).
- A literal actual shoulder brooch (like some think Arthur wore), cf "relics from Dover in the same collection, including a superb circular brooch set with garnets and pearls in a cruciform design".
- Caledonia/Britain the shape of an elongated shoulder-blade or battle-axe in Roman sources. The 4th battle site Celidon wood matches the Weald. (Caledonian wood of Caesar's invasion must be the Weald.)

The shield/(i)scuit may match (at Dover) either:
- white cliffs of Dover.
- the Weald of Kent/Downs, & ysgodion "shades, coverts".
- Yseut of castle of Windsor, & Yseut of chastel de Snowdon, both of which match castellum Guinnion and Dover?
- White Shield, &/or
Darian Las "Green/Blue Shield". ....
- Arthur's shield/ship Pry(d)wen? ....
- The noted shield in the Modena Archivolt (which has in it a tower/castle that looks alotlike Dover lighthouse)?
- Caledonia/Britain the shape of a shield or battle-axe in Livy, Fabius Rusticus, Tacitus? (Compare Kent?) The 4th battle site Celidon wood matches the Weald. There is seeming evidence that the name 'Britain' [&/or 'Albion'] is closely connected with Dover and the Downs &/or Weald. (Compare Dumbarton which connects with Dover and Guinnion.)

xi. fought against the "Saxons/pagans/heathen" ("from Germany" & "every province").

Arthur is clealry said to have fought 12 battles against the Saxons, and fought battle of Guinnion against Saxons or pagans/heathen.
"Saxon(s)" can mean either Anglo Saxons, or (West/South/East/Middle) Saxons (ie Wessex/Sussex/Essex/Middlesex). (Ethelwerd is reckoned to confound Saxons & Angles.)
The 'Saxon Shore'.
Hengist's advisor Ceretic?
Collingwood said that the words of Nennius/HB imply that "Arthur" was specifically fighting Kentishmen.
Sayles says the (West) Saxons ranged from the Wash to the Solent.
Orthodox Arthurian sources agree that the Anglo-Saxons were at that time mainly in the south-east quarter of England/Britain, and that the (West) Saxons were in the south of England/Britain.
Some think that Cerdicshore (1) was at Great Yarmouth, which would have West Saxons ranging from Norfolk to Hampshire.
Geoff of Monmouth has Saxons going around from "Lincoln" to "Totness"/"Severn"/"south".
"From Germany" implies on the east coast [and maybe Saxon Shore].
"From every province" implies to every province (Angles, Jutes, Saxons).
The fortress on a lofty "Saxon Rock" in the region Arestel nearby the narrows of Godalente seems to match Dover (straits) & (fort) Guinnion & (Mt) Eidyn.

Against the Saxons/pagans of Guinnion (5th) of the HB matches against the cynbyn "dog heads" of Eidyn (6th) of PaGur, and Eidyn matches Dover.
(In Biblical gentiles/heathen are called dogs.)
(St Guinefort's connection with cynocephali may link both the Saxons/pagans of fort Guinnion and the cynbyn of Eidyn.)
(Ulph in the Urien battles poem may also connect with the cynbyn of Eidyn?)
[The Jutes of Kent were called "sea wolves/dogs", and/or the Frisians "dog heads"?]
Gildas says "they sealed its doom by inviting in among them (like wolves into the sheepfold), the fierce and impious Saxons [Hengist & Horsa]".
"in England we often see men changed into wolves with changes of the moon" (Tilbury), and we show in this chapter that Guinnion & Dover might link with eclipse of 538?
[Wolf in sheeps clothing?]


Edited by Arthur-Robin - 18-Jan-2017 at 00:59
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The 12 battles 9 battle sites of Arthur of Nennius/HB  definitely match the 9 Saxon Shore sites (of the ND) from Great Yarmouth to Portsmouth), as we have already shown with plenty of stark matches evidences in the last few years (though there are still various extra things to resolve/clear-up/prove).
However certain people on other forums have kept attacking us falsely making our thesis to be wrong/dumb/bad. Because of these attacks we yet again are forced to try re-write better our evidences for each of the 9 sites.

(5th) Guinnion/[Badon] = (6th) Dover/Dubris (= (6th) Eidyn).

The first of the 9 battle sites of "Arthur" (of "Nennius") that we attempt to re-present better (less "sloppy") for the (umpteenth) last time is Guinnion (5th battle site & 8th battle of the HB), which we discovered matches Dover/Dubris (6th site of the SS/ND) [both of which also match Eidyn (6th battle/site of the PG)].

Quote from Nennius/HB:

" Then (it was, that the magnanimous) Arthur(,) fought against {them / the Saxons} {in those days / ,} with (all) the kings (and military force) of (the) Britain(s)(. And though there were many more noble than himself,) but/yet he (himself) was (twelve times chosen) the(ir) leader/commander {of battles / , and was as often conqueror}.

....

[5th site:]
Octauum (fuit bellum) in castello/castellum/*dunon Guynon/*Alborum, in quo (bello) Arthur portauit imaginem sanct(a)e Mari(a)e (perpetuae uirginis) super humeros/*(i)scuid [or *(i)scuit] suos/sues et pagani uersi sunt in fugam(.) In illo/illa die (et) c(a)edes magna fuit {super illos / de paganis} per uirtutem Domini Nostri Iesu Christi et (per uirtutem) sanct(a)e (Mariae) Virginis genitricis eius.

in t-ochtmhadh cath im lesc Guinidoin; is and sin ro imarcor Artur delb Muire for a gualaind, & ro teilgistar na Pagáin.

The eighth ((battle) was) in/near/at (the) Castle/fort(let)/fortress (of) Guin(ni)on/Gurnion/Guindoin/*Alborum [meaning "white, fair, holy" + ion/iog/guic "standard place name ending" or "people"/"fort"], (in) which/where (battle) Arthur carried/bore an/the image (of the cross of Christ, and) of {the holy virgin / St Mary(, the eternal/perpetual/ever virgin)} (, mother of God,) (up)on his shoulder(s) [or shield] (,) and the pagans/Saxons (were) turned/put in/to flight ./, {In/on that day there was great slaughter of them/pagans / and pursued them the whole day with great slaughter} (,) through the power of Our Lord Jesus Christ(,) and (through the power of) {the holy Mary / St Mary his / his sainted} (Virgin Mother).
(For Arthur proceeded to "Jerusalem", and there made a cross to the size of the Saviour's cross, and there it was consecrated, and for three successive days he fasted, watched, and prayed, before the Lord's cross, that the Lord would give him the victory, by this sign, over the heathen; which also took place, and he took with him the image of St. Mary, the fragments of which are still preserved in great veneration at Wedale, in English Wodale, in Latin Vallis-doloris. Wodale is a village in the province of Lodonesia, but now of the jurisdiction of the bishop of St. Andrew's, of Scotland, six miles on the west of that heretofore noble and eminent monastery of Meil-ros [meaning "yellow" / "bare headland/promontory/moor(land)" / "wood"].)

/ the eighth battle at Lesc Guinidon ; it was here Arthur carried the image of Mary on his shoulder, and drove out the Pagans ;

[Some orthodox academic scholars compare/correspond this battle of Guinnion with the battle of Badon in the 'Annales Cambriae' / "Welsh Annals":
"516 The bellum/battle of Badon(is), in which Arthur carried the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ for 3 days and 3 nights on his shoulders and the Britons were the victors".]
[Compare the battle of Guinnion against Saxons/pagans with the battle of mynydd Eidyn against cynbyn in 'Pa Gur'.
[Irish source say Guinnion was in Celidon wood.]
[Compare castellum Guinnion [& Dover] with "Guinevere" and the tower/castle in 'Modena Archivolt'.]
[Compare "the earth shall swallow up "Winchester"/Guintonhi" of the Prophecy of Merlin in Geoff's HRB.]
[Compare fort Guinnion [& Dover] with Galafort.]
[Compare "the great victory of Arthur over the Saxons on St David's (birth)day [1st March] 540 or 640" (~ "field of Leeks").]

.... 

[And] in all his/these battles/engagements {he / the Britons} proved/were victorious/successful. For no strength can avail against the will of the Almighty.
The more the Saxons were vanquished, the more they sought for new supplies of Saxons from Germany; so that kings, commanders, and military bands were invited over from almost every province. And this practice they continued till the reign of Ida, who was the son of Eoppa, he, of the Saxon race, was the first king in Bernicia, and in Cair Ebrauc (York). "

From the 12 battles quote we glean 20 identification details of Guinnion:

i. the number/order ("5th" site of "9" sites)
ii. a "battle/siege" (Arthur victory, Saxons flight/pursued/great slaughter)
iii. the "in/near/at"
iv. the "castellum/fort(let)"
v(a). the name "Guinnion/*Alborum"
v(b). the meaning "white"
vi. fought by "(dux) Arthur"/"(kings of the) Britons" (or "Picts")
vii. the "cross/sign"
viii. the "(Lord Jesus) Christ"/"God"/"Saviour"
ix. the (image of) "holy Virgin / holy Mary / St Mary / perpetual virgin / mother (of God/Arthur)"
x. the (carried/bore (up)on) "shoulder(s)/shield"
xi. fought against the "Saxons/pagans/heathen" ("from Germany" & "every province").
xii. the "drove out" / "turned in flight" (/ "pursued"?)
xiii. the date (before "Ida" [c 547]) & ("3 days" &) "day".
(xiv. the "Jerusalem")
(xv. the province of "Lodonesia")
xvi. is written in the 'HB' of "Nennius" (which also has the Wonders of Britain in it).
xvii. is "history" ('Historia').
xviii. is in "(the island of) Britain" (& "England/Anglia").
ixx. the "in Celidon wood".
(xx. the correspondence of battle of fort Guinnion & battle of "Mt Badon".)

(And some people claim that there is "scanty" details for the 9 battle sites!)

Dover is the only site that only-best matches most-all of these 20 details.
If we are able re time and situation and health, then we will next [in the next post/posts] give a more detailed written explanation about each of these 20 details matches with Dover [though we may not necessarily do them in numeric order].

The only 1/2/3/4 that we can't yet absolutely prove (but can only give some seeming evidences so far) is/are the archaeological evidence in the site ground and county of (the Britons there then &) the Battle actually fought  there then (& at what definite Date) (in History).

It is patently ridiculous for certain harsh critics (to reject all the rest of our stark quality and quantity matches evidences and) to expect me in my distant location (NZ) & disadvantaged social-economic situation (& condition) to also prove the final remaining archaelogical evidence of battle fought there then.

I repeat that i really do not have the time and health and situation and water and location etc to re-do all this 9 battle sites yet again (for umpteenth time). I have other things that i seriously need & want to do. I can not do both in this situation. A certain harsh critic has the cheek to call me "sloppy" etc while they poison my water etc. I have already given plenty enough quality and quanitity matches evidences for the 9 sites, and done plenty enough hard work (to heart breaking point) on this (and other works) in last 3 years in a bad situation (and all for nothing but just either nothing or negative). A person can not do excess hard work with most-all just negatives/pushing/tough, and not any-much positives/loves/conditions/pay. I am not "sloppy", i just have a too bad (past &) present situation & conditions to be able to present a better thesis/paper/article/book (though it is not as if we haven't already given plenty enough quality and quantity sites details matches evidences).
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Latin, Irish and English combined-versions of the 12 battles [9 battle sites] of Arthur section in 'Historia Britonum' & 'Irish HB' & 'Liber Floridus'.

"Tunc Arthur pugnabat contra illos in illis diebus cum regibus Brittonum(,) sed ipse dux erat bellorum.

/ Tunc Arthur dux Pictorum interioris Britannia regens regna, fortis uiribus, miles acerrimus, uidens Angliam undique impugnari et bona terre diripi multosque captiuari ac redimi et ab hereditatibus expelli, cum Britonnum regibus feroci impetu Saxones aggreditur et in eos irruens pugnabat uiriliter, dux bellorum XIl eis existens ut Retro scriptum in est VIII ue folio.

Ar a uidi no cathaigid Artur & Breatain riu co calma, & do rad da cath deag doib, .i.

Then (it was, that the magnanimous) Arthur(,) fought against {them / the Saxons} {in those days / ,} with (all) the kings (and military force) of (the) Britain(s)(. And though there were many more noble than himself,) but/yet he (himself) was (twelve times chosen) the(ir) leader/commander {of battles / , and was as often conqueror}.

/ Then Arthur the leader of the "Picts", directing kingdoms inland in Britain, with strong men, this fiercest soldier, seeing England [Anglia] everywhere beaten in battle, good lands taken away, many enslaved and redeemed and expelled from their inheritance, with the kings of the Britons he came against the Saxons with a ferocious attack and rushing upon them fought manfully, the leader in 12 battles, the same [?] as is written above on the 8th leaf [of this manuscript]

/ Arthur, however, and the Britons fought bravely
against them, and gave them twelve battles, viz.,

[1st site:]
Primum bellum fuit in ostium/*aber fluminis quod dicitur Glein/Gleuy.

in ced cath in n-indbear Glein;

His/The first battle ((in which he was engaged,) was) {in the east at / at the mouth of} the river ([which is] called) Glein/Gleni/Gleuy ./;

[Some scholars think this connected with the river Gefrin/Glen at/in/nearby Adgefrin/Yeavering in Glendale near Millfield (Plain), where Paulinus baptised according to Bede in the 'EH'.]

[2nd site:]
Secundum (uero) et tertium/tercium et quartum et quintum super (aliud) flumen((,) quod vocatur/dicitur) Dubglas (et est in regione Linnius/Linnuis).

in tanaiste & in treas & in ceathramad & in cuicead cath for bru Dubglaisi;

His/The second {indeed and /,} (the) third ,/and (the) fourth(,) and (the) fifth ((battle(s)), (were)) on (the brink of) the/another river ({[which is] / , by the Britons} called) Du(b(h))glas [meaning "black water" or "blue black"] ({[and is] / ,} in the region/district (of) Linnius/Linuis/Inniis [meaning "district/inhabitants of pools/ponds/lakes"])./;

[Higden/Polychronicon adds that Dubglas is near Mersee.]
[See also Duglas in Geoff of Monmouth's 'HRB'.]
[There is also a Doglas in 'lai de Ywenec' which may be same or different.]

[3rd site:]
(Sextum bellum super flumen(,) quod vocatur Bassas. (Omitted in LF.))

(in seiseadh cath fhor bru Bassa;)

(The sixth {battle (was) / ,} by/on {the brink of the / the river (that/which is named/called)} Bassas/Lussas [people/person name Basse's, or meaning "shallow" or "ford" or "forehead" or "mound in the estuary or bed of a river''?]./;)


[4th site:]
Septimum (fuit bellum) in silua Celidonis, (id est Cat Coit Celidon).

ocus in seachtmadh cath a Caill Caillidoin .i. cait Coit Cleiduman;

The seventh (battle (was)) in the forest/wood (of) Celidon/Calydon/Callidon, ({that is(,) / which the Britons call} Ca(i)t Coit [meaning "battle wood"] Celidon./;)

[See also Geoffrey of Monmouth's HRB about connection of Celidon with London.]
[Irish say Guinnion was in Celidon wood.]
[Trystan & Iseult exile in Coed Celyddon.]
[A 'Celidoine' is associated with Galafort.]
[See also Caledon wood mentioned in connection with battle of Arthuret.]
[Compare the battle of Celli in the 'Pa Gur'.]
[Some scholars compare/connect this battle with battle of Trees/Goddeu/Achren.]


[5th site:]
Octauum (fuit bellum) in castello/castellum/*dunon Guynon/*Alborum, in quo (bello) Arthur portauit imaginem sanct(a)e Mari(a)e (perpetuae uirginis) super humeros/*(i)scuid [or *(i)scuit] suos/sues et pagani uersi sunt in fugam(.) In illo/illa die (et) c(a)edes magna fuit {super illos / de paganis} per uirtutem Domini Nostri Iesu Christi et (per uirtutem) sanct(a)e (Mariae) Virginis genitricis eius.

in t-ochtmhadh cath im lesc Guinidoin; is and sin ro imarcor Artur delb Muire for a gualaind, & ro teilgistar na Pagáin.

The eighth ((battle) was) in/near/at (the) Castle/fort(let)/fortress (of) Guin(ni)on/Gurnion/Guindoin/*Alborum [meaning "white, fair, holy" + ion/iog/guic "standard place name ending" or "people"/"fort"], (in) which/where (battle) Arthur carried/bore an/the image (of the cross of Christ, and) of {the holy virgin / St Mary(, the eternal/perpetual/ever virgin)} (, mother of God,) (up)on his shoulder(s) [or shield] (,) and the pagans/Saxons (were) turned/put in/to flight ./, {In/on that day there was great slaughter of them/pagans / and pursued them the whole day with great slaughter} (,) through the power of Our Lord Jesus Christ(,) and (through the power of) {the holy Mary / St Mary his / his sainted} (Virgin Mother).
(For Arthur proceeded to "Jerusalem", and there made a cross to the size of the Saviour's cross, and there it was consecrated, and for three successive days he fasted, watched, and prayed, before the Lord's cross, that the Lord would give him the victory, by this sign, over the heathen; which also took place, and he took with him the image of St. Mary, the fragments of which are still preserved in great veneration at Wedale, in English Wodale, in Latin Vallis-doloris. Wodale is a village in the province of Lodonesia, but now of the jurisdiction of the bishop of St. Andrew's, of Scotland, six miles on the west of that heretofore noble and eminent monastery of Meil-ros [meaning "yellow" / "bare headland/promontory/moor(land)" / "wood"].)

/ the eighth battle at Lesc Guinidon ; it was here Arthur carried the image of Mary on his shoulder, and drove out the Pagans ;

[Some orthodox academic scholars compare/correspond this battle of Guinnion with the battle of Badon in the 'Annales Cambriae' / "Welsh Annals":
"516 The bellum/battle of Badon(is), in which Arthur carried the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ for 3 days and 3 nights on his shoulders and the Britons were the victors".]
[Compare the battle of Guinnion against Saxons/pagans with the battle of mynydd Eidyn against cynbyn in 'Pa Gur'.
[Irish source say Guinnion was in Celidon wood.]
[Compare castellum Guinnion [& Dover] with "Guinevere" and the tower/castle in 'Modena Archivolt'.]
[Compare "the earth shall swallow up "Winchester"/Guintonhi" of the Prophecy of Merlin in Geoff's HRB.]

[6th site:]
Nonum bellum gestum est in urbe/urbs Legionis.

In nomadcath i cathraig ind Legoin;

The ninth (battle) (was) (fought/waged) in/at (the) City of (the) Legion(s)(, gloss: which (in British) is called Cair Lion)./;

[See also many other Arthurian/"Welsh" sources (DEB/Gildas, EH/Bede, 11 Consuls 'HRB'/Geoff, '24 kings & 33 cities', 'AC'/"WA", Hergest, Ywenec, Beroul) for more details about the Arthurian 'city of (the) Legion(s)' / "Caerleon", such as the Round Table being there, its archbishop Dubricius, St Julius & Alban, etc.]
[See also the City of Lions/Lyonesse.]


[7th site:]
Decimum (gessit bellum) in littore fluminis(,) quod uocatur(e) Tribruit/Tribuith.

in dechmead in Robruid;

The tenth {(battle (he fought)) / (was)} at/on (the bank(s)/shore of the river {[which] called / Trat}) Tribruit/Treuroit/Tribuith/Ribroit/Arderit [meaning "..."]./;

[The 'Pa Gur' also gives a few more details about the battle (site) of Tribruit.]


[8th site:]
(Vndecimum (factum est bellum) in monte((,) qui dicitur) {Agned / breguoin, id est cat bregion}.)

(Omitted in Irish HB.)

(The eleventh ((battle) was (waged/fought)) on (the) mount(ain) {([which is] called) Agned / Breguoin [meaning "(white) hills"], which we call CatBregion / Agned Cathregonion.})

[Geoff of Monmouth's 'HRB' from some lost British source adds:
"He also built the city of Alclud [meaning/from ail "(a) rock", or "a height/cliff", or "white", or "a house site", + "river Clyde", or "Caledon", thought to be Dumbarton/Dunbrettan "fort of the Britons/Britain"] towards Albani [meaning "white" or "hill/height"], and the town of mount Agned [supposedly Edinburgh], called at this time 'castellum puellarum' "the Castle of Maidens", or 'montem dolorosum' "the Mountain of Sorrow"."
The author of the '24 kings & 33 cities' says of this same story part:
"He built another city, that which is denominated Caer Alclyd, and the castle which is called Castell y Morwynion [gwyn "white"], on Mynydd/Mount y Tristydd.... ... and he completed the building of the city begun by his father, which was then called Caer Alclyd, and afterwards Castell y Morwynion...."]
[Compare the 8th battle of the uplands of Ystawinguin in the 'Pa Gur'.]

[9th site:]
Duodecimum (fuit bellum) in monte Badonis, in quo (bello) corruerunt (in uno die) nongenti sexaginta uiri de uno impetu Arturi (;) {et nemo prostrauit eos nisi ipse solus / auxiliante Domino Iesu Christo},/.

a do deag is ann ro marbhadh la láimh Artuir xl. ar ocht chetaib i n-aen lo,

The twelfth (battle was / was a most severe contest,) {(when Arthur penetrated to) / on} (the) mount/hill (of) Badon ,/. in which/this battle/engagement(,) 960/940/470 (men) fell {in a single attack by Arthur / by his hand alone}, {(and) no-one brought them low except he / no one but the Lord affording him assistance / with the help of the Lord Jesus Christ.}

/ in the twelfth battle there were slain, by the hand of Arthur, 840 men in one day,

[See also Badon in the Wonders of Britain in the same source ("Nennius").]
[See also Badon/"Bath" in alot of other sources (AC/WA, Hergest, HRB, DEB/Gildas, EH/Bede, Tysilio, Taliesin, Rhonabwy, Prophecy of Merlin, 11 Consuls) for more details about the battle site/location (but remember that the Badon of some other sources maybe matches 5th site Guinnion here not 9th site Badon here).]

Et in omnibus bellis uictor erat/extitit. et ipsi, dum in omnibus bellis prosternebantur, auxilium a germania petebant et augebantur multipliciter sine intermissione et reges a germania deducebant, ut regnarent super illos in brittannia usque ad tempus quo ida regnauit, qui fuit eobba filius. ipse fuit primus rex in beornica.

& ba leis coscur intib seo uile. No chuindgidís imorro Saxain na fortacht doib a Germania & rigi foro, co h-Ida is eiside ced rig ro gab uadaib i-fos indbir Oníc .i. fri Umbria, atuaid.

[And] in all his/these battles/engagements {he / the Britons} proved/were victorious/successful. For no strength can avail against the will of the Almighty.
The more the Saxons were vanquished, the more they sought for new supplies of Saxons from Germany; so that kings, commanders, and military bands were invited over from almost every province. And this practice they continued till the reign of Ida, who was the son of Eoppa, he, of the Saxon race, was the first king in Bernicia, and in Cair Ebrauc (York).

/ and he was victorious in all these battles. And the Saxons
sought assistance from Germany, and it was from thence they brought
their kings until the time of Ida, who was the first king that ruled
over them at this side of Inbher Onic, that is, to the north of Umbria
[Humber]."


- 12 battles of Arthur, Section 50/56 of 'Historia Britonum' (which also includes the Wonders of Britain) of "Nennius".
/ - V.R.
/ - chapter 52/57 of 'Liber Floridus' of Lambert of St Omer.

- 'Leabhar Breathnach' / "Irish HB".

[Also see the "Wonders of Britain" of/in/from the same 3 source(s) (section 73 of 'Historia Britonum' of "Nennius", page # of Irish 'HB', chapter 52 of 'LF' of St Omer).]
[See also Arthurs battle sites in the 'HRB' of Geoff of Mon.]
[Compare the 9 battles sites of the 'Pa Gur'.]

If i have the time etc then I am going to pick each one of these at a time (not in numeric order but easiest/best ones first) and try one last time to show the stark matches between each and all [the fact that not just 1 but all 9 all match all in numeric/geographic order is important evidence in itself] of these 9 battle sites with each and all of our 9 Saxon Shore sites from Great Yarmouth to Portsmouth.
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Posts: 937 		  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2016 at 06:49
From someone's post on the one other forum that we also posted similar thread/topic in it seems some people do not understand what our discovery is about. So another last attempt to explain, plus some background info links:

In the Historia Britonum of "Nennius" is mentioned 12 battles of Arthur which are actually only 9 battle sites because 4 of the battles (numbers 2-5) are in the same place).
These battles/sites are: 1 ostium fluminis Glein (mouth of river Glein), 2/2-5 river Dubglas ("black water"/"blue black"), region Linnuis ("district of pools"), 3/6 river Bassas, 4/7 silua Celidonis (cat coit Celidon), 5/8 castellum/fort(let) Guinnion ("white/fair, holy"), 6/9 urbs legionis (city of the legion) (gloss cairlion), 7/10 trat Tribruit, 8/11 Mt Agned / Breguoin/Bregion ("(white) hills"), 9/12 Mt Badon.

We discovered that 8 of these 9 sites match 8 of the 9 Saxon Shore forts of the Notita Dignitatum from Great Yarmouth to Portsmouth, plus 1 in-between site (Celidon matching Weald / Kit's Coty & Coldrum). The names/meanings and natures/details/geographies match, and they all match in numerical order which can not be coincidence.
(The 9 sites are 1 Garianonum/Burgh/Caistor/Great Yarmouth, 2 Othona/Bradwell/Maldon/Blackwater, 4 Regulbium/Reculver (Baetasiroum), 3 Kits Coty/Coldrum/Weald, 6 Dubris/Dover, 5 Rutupiae/Richborough (legio 2 Augusta), 7 Lemanis/Stutfall/Lympne/Romney, 8 Anderida/Pevensey, 9 portus Adurni/Portsdown Hill/Portchester/Portsmouth.)

To partially demonstrate some matches:

9 "Arthur/Nennius" battle sites -- 9 actual SS sites (from ND):
1 ostium fluminis Glein -- 1 Garieni fluvii ostia
2 Dubglas "black water" -- 2 river Black water / river Eidumannia "element du black"
3 Bassas -- 4 Reculver (Basilicia, Baetasiorum from Baetasii, Bassa the priest, etc)
4 silua Celidonis -- 3 silva Caledonia of Caesar's invasion (in Florus etc)
4 cat coit Celidon -- 3 Kit's Coty (source says can mean "battle + wood") + Coldrum (both sites connected in tradition and by Pilgrims Way)
5 castellum/fort(let) Guinnion/*Alborum ("white/fair, holy") (St Mary) -- 6 Dubris/Dover (white/Albion) (St Mary in Castro).
6 urbs/city of the legion -- 5 Rutupi/Richborough (legio 2 Augusta, called orbs/civitas/city/metropolis)
7th HB site Trat Tribruit's meanings match 7th ND/SS sites geographies descriptions

We also discovered that the Wonders of Britain also in Historia Britonum of Nennius also match the same 9 sites, eg Cruc Mawr matches the "large cruciform platform" at Richborough, Amr's tomb (can't be measured) pretty surely matches Countless Stones (can't be counted), etc. This thus confirms that the sites match is right.

Furthermore the 9 battles & sites of Arthur in the Pa Gur also match the same 9 HB/Nennius sites and 9 ND/SS sites. (See table in first post.)

Our only main thesis is that the 2 sets of 9 sites definitely match in names/meanings, and natures/details/geographies, and numbers all in order. We can not fully prove that the battles were actually fought there then, though we have shown that there are so far some seeming possible evidences for battles being fought there then. The dispute is thus not that the battles were fought there then but that everyone refuses to acknowledge the stark evdiences matches between the 2 sets of 9 sites (plus other lists/sets/sources too including the 9 PaGur sites, and the Wonders of Britain).

For background on the 12 battles / 9 battle sites of Arthur/Nennius see:
http://gorddcymru.org/twilight/camelot/infopedia/a/arthurs_battles.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sites_and_places_associated_with_Arthurian_legend
http://people.clas.ufl.edu/jshoaf/tag/king-arthur/
'Once Again Arthur's battles' by Kenneth Jackson (on Jstor etc)
http://theelf29.esy.es/arthur.html
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=101
Plus for many hitherto 9  battle sites of Arthur loaction theories of orthodox and others see our lists of these at:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1539

For background on 9 Notita Dignitatum Saxon Shore sites see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_Shore
or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saxon_Shore
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notitia_Dignitatum

For how we discovered that the 9 battle sites of Arthur/Nennius and the 9 actual modern/historical SS/ND sites match see:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1600
Map of our 9 battle sites matches at:
http://2rbetterthan1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/map-12battleska-9fortsss2.png
And our tables in this thread/topic.
(Another table of our 9 sites matches is here:
http://historum.com/attachments/medieval-byzantine-history/8330d1429050630-arthur-one-camelot-many-camelots-arth.jpg .)

For the Wonders of Britain see
http://www.wondersofbritain.org/
http://people.clas.ufl.edu/jshoaf/category/arthurnet/
http://historum.com/ancient-history/21513-finding-13-wonders-britain.html
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t276580/
http://users.clas.ufl.edu/jshoaf/LiberFMarvels.html
http://users.clas.ufl.edu/jshoaf/LiberFloridus.html
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=102

For the  9 Pa Gur battles/sites see
http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/bbc31.html
http://www.mythiccrossroads.com/PaGur.htm
http://historum.com/blogs/rob+banks/30903-pa-gur-battles.html
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1540

("Who was "(King) Arthur"" is not a main necessary part of our 9 battle sites discovery, but we posted some on who possibly was Arthur here
http://historum.com/blogs/gold+heart/31681-nennius-gildas-re-king-arthur-bits.html
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1599
http://historum.com/blogs/rob+banks/30905-who-king-arthur.html
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1585
Plus for on Arthur's grave/Avalon being at Reculver see the tables here on Bassas and on Levitating Altar, and see the 3rd "Bassas/Reculver" chapter in our 12 battles ebook thesis paper.)

Quote of the 9 battle sites of Arthur from 'Historia Britonum' of Nennius (which can be seen at http://www.gutenberg.org/files/37848/37848-h/37848-h.htm ) :

"Then it was, that the magnanimous Arthur, with all the kings and military force of Britain, fought against the Saxons. And though there were many more noble than himself, yet he was twelve times chosen their commander, and was as often conqueror. The first battle in which he was engaged, was at the mouth of the river Gleni.[314] The second, third, fourth, and fifth, were on another river, by the Britons called Duglas,[315] in the region Linuis. The sixth, on the river Bassas.[316] The seventh in the wood Celidon, which the Britons call Cat Coit Celidon.[317] The eighth was near Gurnion castle,[318] where Arthur bore the image of the Holy Virgin,[319] mother of God, upon his shoulders, and through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the holy Mary, put the Saxons to flight, and pursued them the whole day with great slaughter.[320] The ninth was at the City of Legion,[321] which is called Cair Lion. The tenth was on the[Pg 409] banks of the river Trat Treuroit.[322] The eleventh was on the mountain Breguoin, which we call Cat Bregion.[323] The twelfth was a most severe contest, when Arthur penetrated to the hill of Badon.[324] In this engagement, nine hundred and forty fell by his hand alone, no one but the Lord affording him assistance. In all these engagements the Britons were successful. For no strength can avail against the will of the Almighty.

The more the Saxons were vanquished, the more they sought for new supplies of Saxons from Germany; so that kings, commanders, and military bands were invited over from almost every province. And this practice they continued till the reign of Ida, who was the son of Eoppa, he, of the Saxon race, was the first king in Bernicia, and in Cair Ebrauc (York)."

- Section 50 or 56 of Historia Britonum of "Nennius".

(I may not have anymuch more time (or water) to post/reply anymore, and not sure how much longer my dialup will not be taken away from me.)

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Another of the Wonders of Britain, since the Wonders confirm that the 9 Battle sites of Arthur do match the 9 Saxon Shore sites, and since this one may confirm Arthur's body was at Reculver.

The Levitating Altar. Quote from Wonders of Britain / Historia Britonum of "Nennius":

“There is another wonder in Gu(h)yr/Guiher/Gower/Gubir/Guhir :/- an/the altar(,) which (is) in (the place(, which is) called) Lorigaruch/Loyngarth/Loingraib/Llygraib/Loiguarch /Llwynarth/Lingarthica ["grove of the bear" or llymarch "an oyster"] ,/. it/which is heldup/supported(intheair) { by the will of god / , although the height of a man above the earth} . It seems better to me to narrate/tell the (hi)story of that/this altar than to stay/keep silent. Forithappenedthat/Butthefactis,while Saint Iltut(us)/Illtud was worshiping/praying in a/the cave/spelunca, which is near/nextto the sea, which washes/laps against the land/ground of/at the (afore)said place, ((for) the mouth of the cave(, also,) is on/to the sea), and(,) beheld/behold, a ship/boat was approaching/sailing towards him ( from the sea,) and two men (were)sailing her/it(,) and the corpse/body of a holy man was with them in the boat(,) and an/the altar (was/suspendedinair) above/over (the) face (of) it/his(,) which was supported/heldup by the will of god(.) and the man of god [Iltut] hasadvancedintheirway/wentforwardtomeetthem, and the corpse/body of the holy man(,) and the altar stayed/remained inseparably above/over/before the face of the holy/saint’s body.
 And they have said to saint Iltut(us): “that/this man of god (has) entrusted tous/usto (, in orderthatwemight) bring/draw him/thatperson to you and (we might) bury him with you, and (the) name (of) him/his you may/shall not reveal to any person/man, (so) that men may/should not swear by him.” (And they buried him, and after his burial ) Th(os)e two men wentback/returned to the ship/boat and (they have) sailed (away). But that/this saint Iltut(us) (has) founded/ established a church around/near/over the corpse/body of the holy man and around/near the altar(,) and it continues all the time to this present day the altar is supported/heldup by the will of god. A certain minor/pettyking/Regulus hascome/came to/,inorderthathemight test (it), carrying a twig/stick/rod in his hand(s); he hasformedacurve/movedit around the altar and (he has) held the twig/stick in/by both hands by/from both/either sides/end(,) and (he has) drawn/pulled it to(wards) him(self) in such a way the truth of that thing/matter he has proved/tested(,) and he/thatperson afterwards during the month uninjured/untouched died. Another (man)/(in truth [?for the truth]) under the altar (has) looked and the sight of the/his eyes (he has) lost(,) and before the/awhole month (had passed)/(uninjured/untouched) his life (he has) ended.”

(Sorry the quote iss abit awkward in a few places due to trying to combine different English versions.)

Levitating Altar (Wonders of Britain, Historia Britonum, "Nennius")

our site Reculver Cross, or Margate Caves [Bassas]

orthodox site/sites rock-arch by Knab Rock, & chapel on/nearby Knab Rock, close to “Bob’s Cave” on Mumbles Head, Ystum-llwynarth in Gower; or Wilson & Blacket's site cave at Ewenny, in Coed y Mwstwr forest

is number 10/9/last of 14/13/11/10 [or 9] Wonders of Britain of 32/31 / 27/26 / 21 / [21 or] 20 [or 19] / 20/17 / 13 / 10 Wonders. ("another wonder".)

[Evidence suggests that Arthur's grave at "Avalon" / "Baschurch" / "levitating altar" was at Reculver [Bassas]. Camlan is 10th/last after 9 battle sites of Arthur of Nennius. Boso of Ridoc is 11th in HRB.] The previous and following wonders also seem to match sites in same Kent or south-east quarter area, and they are all attested as connected in other sources (HB, ND, etc). (Next wonder the returning plank seems to have been at Richborough.)

i have not seen orthodox show if/how/that theirs is number 10/9/last? Orthodox have Nennius wonders jumping all over Wales & Britain (Lomond, Cardigan, Gwent, Buelt, Gower, Severn, Anglesey), and they are not attested as connected in any other sources.

is a "Wonder"

Reculver Cross qualifies as a "wonder". Arthur's grave is also called an eternal wonder is the grave of Arthur in Black Book of Carmarthen.

does their arch qualify as much as a "wonder" of Britain?

in Gu(h)yr/Guiher/Gower/Gubir/Guhir. [Gower is either Welsh "wedge-shaped piece of land" or "a goat/caper" or "on the right" or "man"?, or else is Norman place-name like Gohiere (region north of Paris) or Gouy which latter is from Roman personal name Gaudius.] Compare langemelach/llann Gyfiielach/llangyvelach/llann GyfUelach/llangyfelach, Gower/guhir/gwyr in 12 Monasteries list. Urien(s) of Gore [Voirre/Goirre/Gorre?]

Gower in Wales is a peninsula; Reculver is a "great headland/promontory". [Bassas may also mean "forehead"? Possibly compare the orthodox Mumbles Head?] (Sub-)King Guoyrancgonus of Kent? Guiderius just before Claudius invasion? Guhir is next after "Raglan" in 12 Monasteries list. [Will tenuously add that there may be an analogous traditional link of "Bangor" (in Arvon) "down road from Chester" with Reculver not far from Richborough [city of the legion]?]

yes their candidate site is in modern "Gower", but they refuse to consider if there are any other places/names candidates, and refuse to consider if it is an analogous namesake, or if there was any "lifting", or if Nennius cleverly punned/conflated. They should not just believe or reject a match only on one or few details not all the details/evidences.

Wilson & Blacket's is in Glamorgan/Gwent. [Gower is in westernmost Glamorgan.]

in Lorigaruch/Loyngarth/Loingraib /Llygraib/Loiguarch /Llwynarth/Lingarthica [Loyngarth/Llwynarth "grove/wood of the bear", or Llwyn garth "Grove/Bush/Scrub Hill/Enclosure", or llymarch "an oyster"]

Richborough/Rutupiae and Reculver are famous for oysters there. Rutupiae was thought to be (in) a wood in Roman source. St Leonards Church at Deal? [St Leonard's forest?] Loyngarth may link with Camas Longart/Longphort (on Loch Long), which may link with Camelot &/or Llongborth, which may link with Richborough/Rutupiae? (Arthur may mean "bear", and Arthur's 9 battle sites match the 9 Saxon Shore sites.)

Ystum-llwynarth/Llwyngarth/Llygraib "Llwynarth Bend [Bay?]" (~ Oystermouth bay, the Mumbles, Gower)? [Could be later analogous namesake or "lifting".]

Wilson & Blacket's site is in wood/Coed y Mwstwr forest.

"Levitating/floating altar". held up / supported (in the air) { by the will of god / , although the height of a man above the earth}. (Suspened in the air over face. Altar stayed/remained inseparably above/over/before the face.) ("under the altar (has) looked".) [Possibly compare Carannog's altar?]

the Reculver Cross and stone base/altar?* And/or the “altar chamber” at Margate caves?

* [The christian cross may be thought of as levitating &/or altar? 'Calvary Cross' has 3 steps base.] Might be confirmed in the cross being connected with Iltud at Llantwit in Wales (inscribed “Samson placed his cross here for his soul, the soul of Iltud…”)? The "height of a man" may link with Arthur's real size cross which was preserved at "Wedale" [which possibly may really be Reculver]?

[Alternatively, there was an arch or arches at Richborough?]

"a now-destroyed rock-arch which once stood by Knab Rock", or Maen Cetti "The Stone of Cetti or the Ark" (some seven miles distant, Gower)?

St Iltud. [Compare Ilud/Juliana in children of Brychan?]

“Iltud ordained by Dubricius” / “Dyfrig was the confessor of Iltud”. "Dyfrig/Dubricius (bishop) of Legions" connects with Dubris/Dover, or with Durovernum/Canterbury, or Durobrivae/Rochester, while the city of the legion is Richborough/Rutupi. Another source says Iltud ordained by Germanus? Germanus/Garmon (or Germans) more likely in south-east. [Not sure if Iltud could possibly be Gildas who was reputed to be at "Oxford"/Ridoc?]


cave/spelunca

the caves of Birchington? or (the “altar chamber” at) Margate caves? or Chislehurst caves? Arthur's Avalon may be connected with "hollow hill".

“Bob’s Cave” on Mumbles Head? "neither the cave nor the church have been identified". Evans says why Wilson & Blacket's cave at Ewenny / cave in Coed y Mwstwr forest doesn't match.

near the sea. (ship/boat.)

Reculver/Margate is near the sea. [Camlan may have been near Richborough/Sandwich or else at Sutton Hoo?]


mysterious body/corpse of the/a sancti hominis "holy man / man of god" [suggested by some to be "(King) Arthur"]

The mysterious body of levitating altar (& 2 men) may be "Magnanimous Arthur" (who bore cross at Guinnion/Badon) (& Bedver & Lucan (instead of 3 women)), esp since Llwynarth "grove of the bear" could link with Arthur "bear"; and the L.A. certainly seems to match Reculver Cross. Arthur's grave is called an eternal wonder is the grave of Arthur in Black Book of Carmarthen.

Avalon of Arthur is hall of isle of Afallach in Triads which matches Afarnach's Hall (4th/3rd) of PaGur which matches Bassas (3rd) and Reculver (4th). Avalon is in North Sea in Irish. (Arthur's Avalon may be connected with "hollow hill", which may link with Margate caves?) Isle ~ peninsula? Vale may link with Wantsum-Stour? [St Aaron of Legions? Avene/Cerdicesford? Urien's craggy bed & Arvon's shore & Bencor in Arvon?] Pomona & Reculver "promontory"? Appled Ash of Wonders also in area?

Arthur said to repose at Baschurch, which matches our Bassas (of Nennius) and (monastery-church at) Reculver.

Compare the retreat of Brecheinawc/Gafran of Gwallawg?

Arthur's grave supposedly at Glastonbury. Reculver has a connection with "former abbot of Glastonbury". Appled Ash & Glastonbury Thorn?

(Camlan may be "Bedcanford", and may have been near Richborough/Sandwich, or else Sutton Hoo?)

(Chislehurst is also connected with Merlin.)

[Alternatively, the body of Dover Painted house? Dover is Guinnion of HB & Eidyn 2 of PG. Arthur buried at Etna may link with Eidyn?]


a Church founded/ established around/near/over the corpse/body of the holy man and around/near the altar.

the monastery-church [of St Mary] built around the Reculver Cross. (Or else the “vicarage holy trinity church” at Margate? Or the church of the holy cross near these sites?) [Compare "Baschurch", which connects with Bassas and Reculver. Plus 'Eglwysau Bassa' "churches of Bassa". There is also a Basilica in Reculver inscription. Possibly also compare Wedale which also may connect back to Reculver?] [Marham church of children of Brychan link with Margate??] [Though very tenuous, there may be a traditional analogous link of monastery of "Bangor" (in Arvon) "down the road from Chester" with Reculver not far from Richborough [city of the legion]?]

"a chapel which may have been on Knab Rock or nearby"? "neither the cave nor the church have been identified".

"a certain regulus (petty king)". [Brychan is called a regulus in Saints Lives.]

regulus may possibly link with Regulbium? [Evidence suggests that retreat of Brecheinawc/Gafran of Gwallawg/Taliesin matches our Reculver / Birchington & "Avalon" / "Baschurch" / 'levitating altar'.] Riculf/Raculf (HRB)?


The L.A. is in (the Wonders of Britain in) the Historia Britonum of Nennius which also has (# other wonders, and) the 9 battle sites of "Arthur".

We have shown very quality and quantity evidences that the 9 battle sites of "Arthur" and also the Wonders of Britain of HB of "Nennius" certainly match the 9 Saxon Shore sites in the south-east quarter of England/Britain. Nennius (& Gildas, Melkinus, Kentigern, Germanus, etc) reputed to have been at "Oxford" according to Asser, but the traditional "Oxford" / Rico/Ridoc/Richiden/Rhydychen / Bos(s)o / Caer-Vembyr may really be Reculver near Rutupi & Wantsum-Stour [Bassas "shallow", probably the swelling ford/shallows of the Wonders, and possibly Cerdicesford/Avene], and Germanus etc were surely more likely in the south-west (plus Kentigern may link with Kit's Coty &/or Kent?) (There is also an Oxwich bay in Gower.) [Could the body of Dover painted house even be Nennius?]

Orthodox would have a "largely-fictitious/-unsubstantial" Arthur &/or "unreliable" Nennius romping all over Britain (except for south-east quarter) from Lomond, to Lincoln ("Linnuis"), to Chester ("city of legion"), to Anglesey/Mon(a) or Isle of Man, to Cardigan, to Gwent, to Gower, to Caerleon, to Hwicce, to Severn, to Oxford (Asser), etc. They do not have the 9 battle sites and the Wonders all matching same sites (eg is 1 of Arthur's 9 battle sites in Gower?) (They claim that "there is no necessity that the should match", but we discovered stark evidence(s) that they do match.)

is "history" (ie "Historia (Britonum)")

we have found an amazing real historical match and at about the right date

orthodox have a possible physical/traditional match but it is not really very certain ("neither the cave nor the church have been identified", "...may have been....") Local traditions/legends/rumours are hardly reliable.

is in "(the island of) Britain" (i.e. "(Historia) Britonum")

Reculver/Margate is (in Kent) in (island of) Great Britain. (Evidences from "Welsh" sources also seemingly suggest that the name Britain was especially connected with the Downs and Weald?)

orthodox site is in Gower in s.w. Wales in (Great) Britain.

the usual/orthodox location candidate for the Levitating Altar is at Ystum-llwynarth/Llwyngarth/Llygraib "Llwynarth Bend [Bay?]" (~ Oystermouth bay, the Mumbles, Gower). (Loyngarth from llymarch "an oyster"?)

Richborough/Rutupiae and Reculver are famous for oysters found there. Black Rock near Reculver? (Cf Bass Rock?)





[Levitating altar might match the pieces of Arthur's [or Andrew's] real size cross preserved at Wedale/Vallis-Doloris 6 miles west of monastery of Meil-ros "bare [or yellow] + headland / promontory / moor(land)", in province of Lo[n]donesia]

Reculver Cross, in monastery-church at Reculver "great headland/promontory", # miles n.w. of Richborough/Rutupi [Camelot "yellow"], not far from London. Vale/valley might match Wantsum-Stour?



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This is a table on the city of the legion / "Caerleon" 6th battle site of 9th battle (of Arthur) (of Nennius/HB) briefly comparing match with our Richborough/Rutupiae versus 9 other mainstream hitherto proposed candidate sites. (We haven't done/finished all boxes/columns but there is enough for general information.)


City of the Legion / Cair Lion [of Arthur] (in HB/Nennius, Irish HB, HRB/Geoff, '24 ks & 33 cities', DEB/Gildas)

Richborough / Rutupiae (ND) (me, Evans) [& "Leomister" (12 Monasteries), & 'Liganburh' 571 (ASC)?]

Chester / Deva Victrix (Jackson, Peter Graham, local tradition, news, etc)

Caerleon / Isca Augusta / Isca Silurium, Wales(Geoff / HRB, local tradition, etc)

York / Ebrauc / Sextae (Hunt, etc)

Dumbarton / Kairlium (Skene, McHardy)

Carhaix, or St Pol de Leon, Leon, Brittany (Zoetropo)

Trimontium / Melrose , Scotland (Ardrey)

Carlisle (Wiki)

Exeter (OEC)

Portchester (Collingwood)

fought/called by Arthur/Britons

There are evidences of/for Britons in Kent around this time. Kent & Canterbury are British/Welsh names. Medway was border of Welsh & Saxons. ....

Britons/Welsh were not limited to Wales & Cumbria until after Chester in early 600s ad according to orthodox academics own sources. Chester 600s battle wrong/different leader.

The Britons / Welsh were not limited by Saxons to Wales and Cornwall until after Dyrham in 577, and to not Wales and Cumbria until after the battle of Chester in 600s according to orthodox academics own sources.(All 3 of Cornish, Welsh, Cumbrian retain Arthurian links.) "Wurdesten speaks of the Britons leaving their ancestral land when the Saxons occupied it"?




Britons were not limted to Cumbria until after Chester in early 600s. (Britons not Scots/Irish / Picts.) (All 3 of Cornish, Welsh, Cumbrian retain Arthurian links.)

Britons were not limted to Cumbria until after Chester in early 600s. (All 3 of Cornish, Welsh, Cumbrian retain Arthurian links.)

Britons were not limited to Cornwall/Devon & Wales until after Dyrham. (All 3 of Cornish, Welsh, Cumbrian retain Arthurian links.)


number 6/6th/middle in a set of 9 sites.(Near Tribruit, Guinnion, [and Celidon, or Bassas.])

Richborough is number 5 in an attested set of 9 battle sites which all match Nennius in order.

(Cross-switch match of 6th battle / 5th battle site confirmed between sources: City of Legion 6th (HB), Dissethach 5th (PG), Leominster/Lynn-Liuan 6th/7th (12 Monasteries), Lynn Liuan 6th (Wonders), Legecester 5th (HRB), Richborough/Rutupi 5th/7th.) City of the Legion is near Guinnion, and/or is near either Celidon, Bassas, or Tribruit.

Chester is not number 6/5 in an attested set of 9 battle sites which all match Nennius in numeric and geographic order. They can proove match on only one or a weak few of the 9 battle sites.

Caerleon is not number 6/5 in an attested set of 9 battle sites which all match Nennius in order. (though is inside 12 Monasteries area)

York is not number 6/5 in an attested set of 9 battle sites which all match Nennius in order. Sextae could possibly link but match is otherwise weak.


Brittany site is not number 6 in an attested set of 9 battle sites which all match Nennius 9 sites in order. (Though it is in 7/9 Breton saints)

NOT number 6/5 in an attested set of 9 sites (though Ardrey has an artificial/arbitrary set of 9 sites)

NOT number 6/5 in a set of 9

NOT number 6/5 in a set of 9

NOT number 6/5 in a set of 9 (is number 9/last in set of 9 SS sites)

a "battle" there (~ strategic, works/defenses/fortification) (British won.)

Is strategic (eg Saxon Shore). The fort and possible traces of battles fought there.

Not strategic at the time. Too far North and West. Not anymuch (West) Saxons (not Angles) there then. 613 battle wrong outcome. "Chester" 613 not mentioned in Chronicle of Werburgh?

Not strategic at the time. Too far West. Not anymuch (West) Saxons there then.

Not strategic. Too far North. Not anymuch (West) Saxons (not Angles) there then.


Not strategic; Too far away; Not anymuch (West) Saxons there then.



Not strategic at the time


in/at











urbe/city

Rutupi/Richborough was a "city" / "civitas"/"orbs" / "metropolis".

legion camp/chester may conflict with legion city/orbs? The 2 AC/WA city of legion entries maybe well be different places: synod ‘Urbs/Urbis Legionum/Legion(is)/ligionis’/"Chester" 601/602 (AC), and battle ‘Cair/Caer Legion’/"Chester" (brocmail/"bangor") 613/614 (AC). Nennius' 'urbs/city of legion' is different to his 2 legion cities in his cities of Britain list ('Cairligion/Cair Legion'/"Chester", and 'Cairlion'/"Caerleon").

Nennius' 'urbs/city of legion' is different to his 2 legion cities in his cities of Britain list ('Cairligion/Cair Legion'/"Chester", and 'Cairlion'/"Caerleon").








legionis/legion(s)

legion 2 Augusta. (Some arch-critics claim there was supposedly no legion there then at time of Arthur/Nennius, or that only part / garrison of legion not main base. The legion at Rutupi is closer date than the legion at Caerleon.) CoL is city of the legion singular which matches Rutupi. The plural legions may not be correct, or it may be 2ndarily correct. Legions plural could also match Richboroughi as landing place of Roman invasion legions, tho scholars dispute where the landing place was.

legion victrix. If they can claim our site supposedly didn't have a legion at the time of Arthur/Nennius, well then their own site certainly does not?

legion 2 Augusta at Caerleon legion was also later at Rutupi/Richborough. If they can claim our site supposedly didn't have a legion at the time of Arthur/Nennius, well then their own site certainly does not?

legion sextae


St Pol de Leon. Carhaix of Prince of Leon. Yet there is also possibly Lyon & St Guinefort of Stephen de Bourbon?





name &/or meaniing of 'urbe legionis' "city of the legion"

Nennius' 'urbs/city of legion' is different to his 2 legion cities in his cities of Britain list ('Cairligion/Cair Legion'/"Chester", and 'Cairlion'/"Caerleon"). [Lygeanburg /Liganburh 571 ASC may match city of the legion & Richborough in Kent in my opinion from certain evidences in ASC etc.] [St Paerburge of Legcester of Pa Halgan may possibly be in Kent?

[Chester is Romano-Saxon name?] "How Deva came to be the name of Chester or the Castra Legionis (whence the Welsh Caer Lleon) is not clear"? Orthodox and everyone can not even decide/prove which of their "only 2 (or 3) possible" sites (Caerleon or Chester (or York)) CoL supposedly is. [ASC 571 Lygeanburg/Liganburh can not be Chester.] "Chester" 613 not mentioned in Chronicle of Werburgh?

Was Caerleon called that before 800 ad? Caerleon (Romano-British name) was called Isca Augusta /Silurium? HB doesn't say "on Usk". [Lygeanburg 571 can't be Caerleon.] Orthodox are wrong to adamantly assert that there are only 2 or 3 candidates (Caerleon, Chester, (York)) because they're the only 2 known places called city/camp of the legion, & the 3 est legionary bases in Roman Britain. There were legions at some other places in history of Britain, incl at Rutupi.

York was not ever called city of the legion (though zoetropo claims it was somewhere). York was called York /Ebrauc /Sextae. Even orthodox academics favour Chester or Caerleon and don't favour York. [ASC 571 Lygeanburg/Liganburh can not be York.] CoL and York are mentioned as distinct places in Arthurian sources. Orthodox and everyone can not even decide/prove which of their "only 2 (or 3) possible" sites (Caerleon or Chester (or York)) CoL supposedly is.


Not sure any Brittany site was ever called city of the legion? St Pol de Leon. [ASC 571 Lygeanburg/Liganburh can not be in Brittany.]





gloss called/name Cair_Lion

legio 2 augusta at Rutupi was "from Caerleon".


CairLion is a gloss. Nennius doesn't say "(up)on Usk"


Cairlion is a gloss. Dumbarton was at some time called /Kairlium.






legio 2 Augusta(implied from "Cairlion" in HB, and "on Usk"(and "Augusel"?) in other sources). [month Aug/Sept?]

right legion (legio augusta from caerleon later at Rutupi), closest time.

wrong legion (Victrix)

the legion was at Richborough closer to the right time

wrong legion (Sextae)


Wrong legion?





"against [West] Saxons" [Cerdic, Colgrin, Baldulf] [not Angles].

There were many/much (West) Saxons there then. The (Anglo-/West) Saxons were mainly between the Wash and Solent (the 'Saxon Shore'). Colingwood said Nennius' words imply Arthur was fighting Kentishmen.

Not anymuch (West) Saxons (not Angles) there then. The Britons were not limited by Saxons to Wales and Cumbria until after the battle of Chester in 600s according to orthodox academics own sources.

Not anymuch (West) Saxons there then. The Britons were not limited by Saxons to Wales and Cornwall until after Dyrham in 577, and to not Wales and Cumbria until after the battle of Chester in 600s according to orthodox academics own sources.

Not strategic. Too far North. Not anymuch (West) Saxons (not Angles) there then.


Not anymuch (West) Saxons there then (though Saxon Shore is & Germanics were raiding both sides of English Channel). (Saxon Shore is either both sides or just British side?)





date "before Ida" ["c 547"]

The legion at Rutupi is closer date than the legion at Caerleon. [Calends Julius 540? Liganburh 571?]

Chester 600s ad battle is the wrong/different time/date. The later battle not just source would have been copied from the earlier.

Caerleon legion was later (closer to 547) at Rutupi/Richborough. If they can claim our site supposedly didn't have a legion at the time of Arthur/Nennius, well then their own site certainly does not?








in "HB/Nennius" (which also has the Wonders)

Some of the Wonders of Britain match Richborough/Rutupi, especially Cruc Mawr (large cruciform platform at Richborough), Lynn Liuan.










is "history"(ie 'Historia Britonum')











in "(island of) Britain".

Is in Great Britain. ["Britannia Minor" of some other source/s could refer to some minor-like prominent part/province/promonitory of Britain/Britannia such as the Downs/Weald/Kent/Albion?]





Brittany is not in the island of Britain





archbishop Dubricius / Dyfrig (HRB, AC?)

Richborough is near Dubris / Dover (&/or to Doruvernis/Canterbury). (Confirmed by Dubriactus in Taliesin?)

Does not have any Dubricius match like ours has. [The only possibility could be Deverdoeu [Dyfrdwy] but wouldn't be "linguistically sound".]

Does not have any indisputably concrete Dubricius match like ours has.

Does not have any Dubricius match like ours has. York was archbishop Sanxo.


Does not have any Dubricius match like ours has.





St Julius & Aaron & Alban & Amphibalus. [Leo/July?]. Jugein of Legecester.

Has match for 3 close to each other Sts sites (Julius = Richborough /CoL, Aaron = Reculver /Avalon, Alban = Dover /Guinnion).(Rutupiae built 277-285, & St Alban martyr 283?) Julius Caesar (& Laberius)? [Calends of Julius 540 ASC, & calends of July of Padarn match Richboorugh & CoL? Date of St Julius /Aaron is 1st of July.] CoL had a church of Julius, this might be the building over the large cruciform platform? [Church of Stephen at Camelot. Stephen 1st martyr.]

Has no match for 2/3/4 close to each other Saints sites (Julius/CoL, Aaron, Alban, Amphibalus). Chester has no provable St Julius origins connection. The tradition of Sts Julius & Aaron at Chester is admitted by investigators as weak/no evidence. Chester is not close to St Alban (though source claims Chester is "the white city"). Julius & Aaron can't be in two places at sametime (both Chester & Caerleon have traditional claims).

Has no match for 2/3/4 close to each other Saints sites (Julius/CoL, Aaron, Alban, Amphibalus). Julius & Aaron can't be in two places at sametime (both Chester & Caerleon have traditional claims). Caerleon has no verified St Julius origins match. Caerleon is not close to St Alban.

Has no match for 2/3/4 close to each other Saints sites (Julius/CoL, Aaron, Alban, Amphibalus). York has no St Julius (Julius Caesar). York is not close to St Alban except Scottish Alba / Albany.


Has no match for 2/3/4 close to each other Saints sites (Julius/CoL, Aaron, Alban, Amphibalus). Brittany does not have as good / strong St Julius [Julius Caesar] origins matches as Richborough / Rutupi does. Brittany is not so close to St Alban.





St Julius (& St Alban (& St Amphibalus)) (continued)

St Alban is linked with St Germanus. The grave of St Alban might be the cruciform platform at Richborough [& grave of Gawain at Rutupi /Peryddon?] (it may be grave of Labienus?) (Albinus Abbot of St Augustine's, Canterbury??) (Amphibalus is also in Winchester, while Arthurian "Winchester"/Guintonhi is Guinnion/Dover.) Julliberies grave?










"Arthur's capital". ("2nd Rome", "chief city of Britain", "principal archbishop" "loved & honored Caerleon on the Usk more than any other place"); "one of the most important cities in Britain"; "metropolitan see", one of "3 renowned cities".) ["Metropolis of Padarn".]

Rutupi / Richborough was "their primary station / the metropolis / this city was of such celebrity that" (ref "R. of C."). Is one of the best preserved Roman sites in Britain. ["Metropolis of Padarn". Taliesin's Gwensteri key to Lloegyr.] (Thanet also had a name that is similar looking/sounding to "Rome"?)

I don't think that Chester qualifies as this.









round table there. [Amphi-balus?]

Has very round / circular Amphi-teahtre and it is analogous to the amphi-theatre RT tradition of Caerleon, and the amphi-theatre RT tradition of Chester. Rutupiae "red top"?

The amphi-theatre Round Table tradition of Chester is weak.

No other evidence for Caerleon amphi-theatre RT tradition.








Caer Lleon and "Jerusalem" were built about the same time (ref '24 kings & 33 cities') implying it was close to a "Jerusalem" site.

"Jerusalem" (cross) is Uerolamiensem" / "Verulam / "St Alban's" (Gildas), which is Dover (white /Albion), which is Guinnion (cross).










"Gildas clearly states that this place [city of the legion] is unacessable to British people." (And/or, other sources seem to imply CoL was deserted &/or waste?) [CoL Wonders omitted in Irish HB.] Gildas says "neither to this day are our cities inhabited ... forsaken & overthrown" [which fits ASC 571 & 577].

It qualifies for inaccessible &/or deserted &/or waste.

"If this was Chester it would hardly be unacessable." Surely Chester was not uninhabited by Britons in Gildas' lifetime before the 613 battle of "Chester"?

It was not inaccessible (Gildas) or deserted or waste. "Wurdesten speaks of the Britons leaving their ancestral land when the Saxons occupied it"?



It was not inaccessible (Gildas) &/or deserted &/or waste?





Tremounus of Legions (HRB). [Trimontium / Mel-rose (Adam Ardrey).]

May link with Triputiensis/Rutupi, or Trinovantum/"London" (there are some possible indications of links between London & Richborough, though name supposed to be from Trinovantes not New Troy). [Or else Cruc Mawr?] [Mel-ros (& Rhos) & Wedale seem to connect with CoL / Richborough / Camelot & Reculver.]





Trimontium ["lifted / recycled"].





not far from Isneldone/Sinadon/"Snowdon" "snow hill".

Richborough is near North Downs (chalk), Dover (white, Albion), and a Snowdown.










on the banks of a river like the "Usk"

Richborough is similarily on the (Wantsum-)Stour. [Stour name may match similar names in some Welsh sources?]

Chester is on the Dee/Deva

Caerleon is on the Uske ["Uske" can be analogous / lifted / wrong]. Nennius doesn't say "(up)on Usk".

York is on/by Ure.







"David bishop of Merlin's town Caerleon"











[city of Lions / Lyonesse is between land's end & Scilly islands [in "s.w."]?]

Richborough is at analogous opposite s.e. lands end, and by Thanet (and/or archaelogists say Richborough/Rutupi was once (on) an island?) Richborough in east is sort-of analogous to Caerleon in west?


Caerleon is not really so. Caerleon in west is sort-of analogous to Richborough in east?

York is not really lands end.







[Lynn Liuan is at/nearby CoL (eg Leominster & Linn Liuan, Caerleon & Lynn Liuan, HB has both CoL & LL, Irish HB omits CoL / Richborough wonders). "The fastness/dwellings of Dissethach" of Pa Gur (5th) matches City of the Legion of HB (6th), and matches Lynn Liuan (6th in HB, 5th in 12 Monasteries).]

Lynn Liuan (& Dissethach) seems to match Richborough/Rutupi (or Ebbsfleet?) area then.










Aurelius /Ambrosius was Roman-blooded.


Chester is in the unromanised region of britain not in romanised region of britain in the map "Post-Roman Britain (Anglo-Saxon Cemeteries) (based on Jones & Mattingly's Atlas of Roman Britain)".









[CoL may be linked with number 1000(0) (via Carmarthen, via Taliesin 1000 sons)?]

[I sure i saw it said that Richborough/Rutupi held about 1000?]

"the II Augusta had reduced a lot [to 1/10]";

"Legio 2nd Britannica ... just 1,000 strong by then [ear 5th cent?]".










[CoL is maybe "down road from" a "Bangor" (& an abbey) site analogously like Chester is?]

"Bangor" & abbey might link with Reculver (& monastery-church) [Bassas / Avalon]?

Chester is "just down the road from Bangor"?









[City of legion is linked with St Paerburge &/or Werburgh? Metropolis of St Padarn? Llanbadarn?]

St Paerburge of Legecester in Pa Halgan may be in Kent? Metropolis/solemnities/churches of Padarn may match CoL & Richborough?

Chester's Werburgh can have been "lifted". [Werburgh female in some sources but male on some other sources.]









CoL had a church (of Julius) or minster ["Leominster"]. [Camelot had church of St Stephen.]

I think i saw that Richborough had a church, &/or it did have building over the cruciform platform.










Implied links with Paulinus, Augustine, Germanus.[Augusel?]

Augustine & Paulinus were in Kent. Germanus had links with St Alban who can only be in Downs. [Legio 2 Augusta?]

Germanus battle Maes Garmon near Mold [near Chester] is dubious. St Augustine synod at "Chester" ['Augustine's Ac' "Augustine's Oak" "on the borders of the Hwiccas" c603?] also seems dubious to me? (Though Ethelbert did extend his sphere to Humber.)




St Pol of Leon.





CoL and York are mentioned as distinct places in Arthurian sources. Nennius' 'urbs/city of legion' is different to his 2 legion cities in his cities of Britain list ('Cairligion/Cair Legion'/"Chester", and 'Cairlion'/"Caerleon").

Richborough is distinct from York, Chester, Caerleon.










surely must also be in other Latin/Welsh/Saxon sources too

Our site also matches Dissethach of PaGur, Gwensteri of Gwallawg, Lynn Liuan & Cruc Mawr of Wonders, etc. The extended version of Watling street links 2 city of legion candidates Richborough/Rutupi and Chester. Taliesin's Gwallawg battles seem to parallel Nennius' Arthur battles, Taliesin's Gwensteri key to Lloegyr corresponds to Nennius' city of the legion and fits Rutupi/Richborough. Mari Lwyd in Caerleon similar to Hoodening in Padstow (Petroc's, Cornwall), Kent, & Cheshire links 3 CoL sites?

A "Chester" battle is in AC/WA, but wrong name/words and wrong date and wrong outcome. The later battle not just source would have been copied from the earlier. The extended version of Watling street links 2 city of legion candidates (Richborough / Rutupi and Chester). Mari Lwyd (St Mary) in Caerleon similar to Hoodening in Padstow (Petroc's, Cornwall), & in Kent, & in Cheshire. This links 3 city of legions sites. West Chester implies an east Chester?

Amphitheatres of Caerleon, Chester & Richborough all analogous. Caerleon in west is sort-of analogous to Richborough in east? Mari Lwyd (St Mary) in Caerleon similar to Hoodening in Padstow (Petroc's, Cornwall), & in Kent, & in Cheshire. This links 3 city of legions sites. I have yet to check if the Mynde of Caerleon could link with our Cruc Mawr of Richborough (&/or Tremounus/Trimontium)? [Newport imply an old port??]

CoL and York are mentioned as distinct places in Arthurian sources. [ASC 571 Lygeanburg/Liganburh can not be York.]

Dumbarton/Dunbrettan "fort of the Britons/Britain" aka Alcluith (ail "rock" + river Clyde) actually points to being an analogous namesake "lifted" from Dover / Braddon [Guinnion / Badon] as the fort of Britons /Britain / Albion?

Gwenedeg/Vannes and Leon are only possibly analogous lifted/recycled namesakes of Guinnion and City of (the) Legion(s).





Supported by other scholars

Some other academics like Evans have suggested Richboroughi, they only dismissed it because they believed south-east was Anglo-Saxon.

Orthodox and everyone can not even decide/prove which of their "only 2 (or 3) possible" sites (Caerleon or Chester (or York)) CoL supposedly is.

Some orthodox academics favour Chester over Caerleon.

Orthodox and everyone can not even decide/prove which of their "only 2(or 3) possible" sites (Caerleon or Chester (or York)) CoL supposedly is.

Even orthodox academics favour Chester or Caerleon and don't favour York. Orthodox and everyone can not even decide/prove which of their "only 2 (or 3) possible" sites (Caerleon or Chester (or York)) CoL supposedly is.


Orthodox academics favour only Chester or Caerleon or York and don't favour Brittany.





All details of CoL (& all 9 sites) of HB (& all sources)

They rejrected all our quality match(es) evidences for this site for only one over-rigid theoretical reason. We have a CoL site and 9 sites match(es) which are far stronger in evidences than others' candidates theories.

They can not just base an identification on only one or a few details of the battle site (like name match) & 1 site or few sites not 9.










Can't really beat the Cruc Mawr table in last post though.

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The fact that the Wonders of Britain also match the same sites as the 9 battle sites of Arthur, further confirms that our discovery is right and is not trash/crap like many others have asserted/assumed for the last 3 years (by opposition or by silence/ignoring).

Cruc Mawr (mawr/vawr means "big/large/giant") of the Wonders only-best matches the "large cruciform platform" at Richborough [city of the legion] combined with the Christian Cross.

Quote from the Wonders of Britain:

“There is another wonder in the region which is called Cereticiaun/Ceredigion / Cereciaunum/Ceretiaun/Ceretun/Ceretun/Ceretim/Ceretum. There is there a mountain, which is given the name Cruc Maur/Marc ["the great/big hill(ock)/heap/tumulus"], and there is a grave on the summit of it, and every man whosoever that will come to the grave and stretch himself out next to it, however short they will be, the grave and the man have been found within one length, and, if it will be that the man is short and small, similarly also it is found the length of the grave is like the height of the man, and, if he will be long and tall, even if he might be of length 4 cubits near the height of every man so the tumulus is discovered. And every wanderer who’s up to weariness, the man will bow 3 bows near that, he will not be beyond himself upto his day of death, and he will not be weighted down again by any weariness, even if he will go alone to the boundaries of the cosmos.”

In this following table we give the details of Cruc Mawr in the Wonders/HB/Nennius (left column) and the matches with our site (middle column) versus the orthodox site (right column). I can not see why/how orthodox Arthurians/academics/sceptics seemingly casually assert that we and our thesis is just all crap. This big X marks the spot and no one can say it can't match (equally if not more than their orthodox/traditional candidate).


Cruc Mawr (Wonders of Britain, Historia Britonum, "Nennius", Gerald of Wales, Evans)

Our candidate site of Richborough/Rutupiae ['City of the Legion'], & the Cross

The orthodox/traditional claimed site Banc-y-Warren hill/summit near [porth] Crugmore/Crug(mawr) farm (between Cardigan/Aberteifi and Lampeter/Pont-Stephen, Llangoedmore parish, Ceredigion, Wales). (Note: "actual location is still a little moot".)

is a "Wonder"

The large cruciform platform at Richborough qualifies as a wonder. The Cross/Crucifiction is stated by many to be one of the greatest wonders of AD western world history.


region "Cereticiaun".

[Perhaps compare Carannog/C(h)ernach, son of Ceredig, from Ceredigion?]

Cereticiaun could connect with either Caractacus of Roman invasion, or with Cerdic interpreter of Hengist (HRB), or with Cerdic/Cedric of West Saxons. Or, car/caer/cair can mean city/camp? St David was son of prince of Cereticu, and David has links with our south-east sites too. [Coroticus of St Patrick might also link with our site/area?] Cregcanford?? [Just to give the orthodox critics an excuse to trash it i will also add dubious/tenuous faint possibility of Crete & Thanet??]

Yes there is a cantref/shire called Ceredigion/Cardigan in Wales, but are there any other place/name candidates, and/or why can it not be a later namesake, or why can't Nennius have cleverly punned?

a "mountain" (& hill(ock)/heap/mound/tumulus, summit)

The cruciform platform at Richborough qualifies as a hillock/mountain/heap/mound. The crucifiction was also on or at the top of a hill (Golgotha/Calvary/'Skull Hill') too.

Yes theirs is a hill/summit, but doesn't also match other cross meaning.

name and/or meaning of "Cruc Mawr" (or Cruc Marc) "great/big hill(ock)/heap/tumulus/mound" [and/or "great/big/huge cross/crux/crucis/crucifix/crutch"] (and/or "yellow death" in HRB)

The "large/massive Cruciform platform" or quadrifrons at Richborough only best matches "big cross" better than any other site in Britain/World. The Crocea Mors in Geoff's HRB also is in area of Caesar's invasion. (The crucifiction was also on or at the top of a hill (Golgotha/Calvary/'Skull Hill') too.) Some other Cruc place names may also possibly match our Richborough/Rutupi & 'city of the legion' site (eg: Again's Cross of Padarn, Cruachan-Aichle of St Patrick)? (There is also place/name 'Stone Cross' at Sandwich, and 'the Cross' in Kent in maps/records.) [The "yellow" might link with "yellow" Camelot and/or 'Meil-ros' which also seem to match Richborough? (Compare yellow plague of Maelgwn of Rhos?) The platform is white & the building over/around it had marble.]

The small conical mound/hill &/or whole mountain site may match large hill(ock) but it doesn't match big cross. There are also one or two or three other place/name candidates (Crug Mawr mountain in Powys, Crugmeer farm in north Cornwall)? Craigmore in Antrim/Londonderry/Maghera)?) so which one of the 2/3/4 is it?

alternative name/meaning of Cruc Marc

x marks the spot? King Mark of "Cornwall" [~ Kent]? March/border? Marcus/Mark in Roman invasion?


tomb / grave (on summit) / tumulus

Evidences suggest that the cruciform platform at Richborough is certainly the grave or centoph or either Labienus/Laberius, or Julius/Aaron/Alban, or "Gawain", or Vortimer, or Brychan. The Christian Cross/Crucifiction / Calvary/Golgotha/Skull Hill is the death & burial site of "Jesus" Christ and of all Christians.

Yes there is a cairn on top, but otherwise pretty weak match with all the rest of the details.

fits everyman (short and long)

This fits the Christian ideas about the Cross/Crucifiction, eg “Jesus the perfect gift that fits every heart”. (Nennius was religious "Christian".) Also, one arm/bar of the Richborough platform (and of the christian cross) is shorter (& thicker) / longer (& thinner) than the other.)

How does the orthodox site only-best fit this?

4 (Roman?) cubits ["177.8 cm" or "259.6 cm"]

The 4 cubits of this wonder and the 20 cubits of the Font Guur Helig wonder may link with the arms of the cruciform platform at Richborough (since cubit is tip of finger to elbow of bent arm)? And/or it may link with Judaeo-Christian / Roman / British/Welsh / Frankish / Saxon cubits/heights? (Romano-British height 154.2-169.3 cm, 9th cent Northern European/Scandinavian height 173.4 cm, 12th cent Britons height 171.6 cm, Medieval avg height 171.26 cm, 2004 British mean height 177.2 cm. Romans and early christians and Saxons were mainly in south-east quarter of England/Britain.)


weary wanderers not weighted down anymore, not beyond self, even to bounds of cosmos. (Bows.)

This fits the Christian ideas about the Cross/Crucifiction. (Nennius was religious "Christian".)

How does the orthodox site only-best fit this?

3 (bows)

3 days (& 3 crosses & 3 nails) crucifiction (& the Trinity) perhaps? [Tremounus? Triputiensis?]


near preceding &/or succeeding wonders. (Is number 13/14/... / 13th/14th/... in set of 13/14/....)

The preceeding Wonder 'Amr's tomb' pretty certainly matches Countless Stones of the Medway megaliths [Celidon]. The next Wonder (in the primary version) 'sealess shore' apparently matches either the cliffs of Dover [Guinnion] or cliffs near Reculver [Bassas]. The next Wonder (in the alternative version) 'Brebic's stone (in a) cataract' may also match one of our south-east sites.

Some of the orthodox/traditional Wonders claimed sites are close but overall thay are scattered and have no other attested common connection as a set/group.

in the Wonders of Britain in the 'HB' of "Nennius" (which also has other Wonders, and also has the 12 battles 9 battle sites of Arthur). ("another wonder". Is number 13/14/... / 13th/14th/... in set of 13/14/....)

The other Wonders also match our 9 south-east SS sites. The 12 battles 9 battle sites of Arthur also match our 9 south-east SS sites. Nennius was traditionally reputed to have been at "Oxford" which seems to really be Reculver or Richborough in Wantsum-Stour area, or Epsford. "Nennius" was a "christian" so it is not surprising the connection with the cross.

Orthodox would have Nennius and/or Arthur romping massive lengths of almost the whole of Britain from Lomond (Wonders), to Wales (Wonders), to Anglesey or Isle of Man (Wonders), to Oxford (Asser), etc. Some claim that Nennius was in Wales/West not in Anglo-Saxon area, but I have not seen any really solid proofs/evidences for this.

is "Historia"

Ours matches with a real historical site.

Theirs matches with a real site but what is its attested history between Arthur/Nennius and 1188?

is in "(the island of) Britain"

is in Great Britain

is in Wales (which is in Great Britain)

omitted in Irish HB

Is it concidence that the 4 Wonders which we had found to certainly seem to match Richborough/Rutupi & City of the Legion are all 4 omitted in the Irish HB?


date (of HB/Nennius). (Before 1188.) (After Caesar's invasion, before Geoff of Monmouth/HRB.) (Omitted in the later date Irish HB.) [Arthur was "before Ida".]

Geoff's HRB has Crocea Mors in Caesar's invasion. Date/author of HB/"Nennius" is disputable/uncertain. Large cruciform platform has been at Rutupi/Richborough from "ca 1st cent ad" to the present, and may be grave/cenotaph of Labienus or St Julius or ..., or monument of Claudius invasion? [Eclipse calends Julius 540 (ASC)?]

[A king Ceredig died in 615.] [Arthur king/lord of Ceredigion died & solar eclipse in 807.] (Ceredigion mentions in 871, 894, 987, 992, 1072.) (A battle fought at/near the site in 1093/1094, and) Traditiional site recorded in 1188, Crug Maur farm mentioned in 1895, and is Modern candidate site. Some orthodox assert date of HB/Nennius is certain time/author, others say not certain time/author.

armour broken to pieces

Crocea Mors?


According to some sources Cruc Mawr or Cruc Marc seems to be connected with "Brychan’s sepulchre" which is in/near Mannia/Mynav. [Compare St Minver/Menfre in the 15 children of Brychan.]

Brychan's sepulchre seemingly matches either the Reculver Cross & Arthur's grave (& retreat of Brecheinawc/Gafran), or the cruciform platform at Richborough, or Medway megaliths. (Brycheiniog named from Brychan.) (Birchington?) Vallis/Valley of Brychan/Rosina/Wedale/Avalon fits Wantsum-Stour (and/or fits difference between Dover & Richborough). A "certain regulus" Brychan (Vita Cadog) may link with Regulbium/Reculver? There is a 'Minnis bay' near Reculver (& Richborough). "Nennius" analogously corresponded "Mon(a)/Anglesey"/"Man" and Thanet in the Wonders (and some versions of Watlling Str link both places at either ends).


The analogous later traditional site Banc-y-Warren hill/summit near [porth] Crugmore/Crug(mawr) farm (between Cardigan/Aberteifi and Lampeter/Pont-Stephen, Llangoedmore parish, Ceredigion, Wales). (Aberteifi/Cardigan which was an island.) ("Sand Pit".) (Aberteivi "the key to all Wales".)

Our site was a port. There was a font at Rutupi/Richborough. The metropolis of Padarn/Paternus seems to match Richborough/Rutupi & city of the legion. Peter in Kent in 601-3, 616/617-618. (St Patrick may also possibly link with our site?) Peter means Stone/rock which may match our site. Church of Stephen of Camelot may be church at Richborough or the cruciform platform building/structure at Richborough? Stephen as a first martyr may link (with St Julius/Alban, and) with Labienus of Caesar's invasion? (Our site is near mouth of river Stour/Wantsum.) In Roman times Rutupiae was (on) an island, &/or Thanet was an island. 'Sandwich'? Rutupi/Richborough fits key to Britain ('City of the Legion') (compare the Gwensteri and "subdue Lloegyr" of Gwallawg/Taliesin).

Their site can be a later analogous namesake.

[calends July & calends May 1093 kerediegean battle Wales.]

St Julius & Aaron & Alban of 'city of the legion'. Julius Caesar's invasion. Calends of Julius 540 (ASC/Ethelwerd). Calends of July of 3 solemnities of Padarn.


[surely must/may also be in other Roman/Welsh/Saxon sources.]

Many other sources seem to match this and the other 8 of all the 9 south-east SS sites (12 battles, Wonders, Pa Gur, 12 Monasteries, etc).

The traditional site can be a later "lifted" analogous namesake. Nowhere near as many sources qualitatively match the orthodox/traditional site(s).

Oh no thats right, i am just a "fringe"/"pseudo-science" "word games"/"sounds like" "Antiquarian" "Nibiruan" "nonsense" spouter, playing with ignorance", "arguing negatives/lack of evidence", "not plausible" not "rational", with "no evidences" who "the burden/onerous of proof is all on", who "has been refuted", without "peer review", "repeating self like a broken record", who "thinks I am better than anyone else", "banned from Historum for same stuff last time" and many more things people have smeared me online with. And "Nennius" is just "unreliable" "lifted" etc. And "Arthur" is just "has wasted more words than any other subject", "a ship in a bottle", "fun", "embellished", "made up by Nennius/Geoff/Wace". And the 12 battles is just "only one name" or "too scanty" and "impossible" to match, and/or "can be found anywhere", and we only found it because "such a wide area, and "had wrong premise" and "forced it to fit". I "haven't done enough decade hard work".

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Crocea Mors of Caesar's invasion in Geoff of Monmouth's 'HRB' maybe even more confirms that Cruc Mawr of the Wonders of Britain matches the large cruciform platform at Richborough/Rutupiae.


I'm not sure if "Green Shield" in the table(s) is a mistake. One version has "Green Shield", other version has "Blue Shield", and the latter  may be more correct translation than the former.

"Green Shield"
~ green woods/Weald/Celidon wood/coverts/green man, or marble Camelot / marble at cruciform platform in Richborough?

"Blue Shield"
~ blue/green sea/Straits/wave, or copper/bronze, or cold Thanet/"Ireland", or blue dyed/painted Britons/Picts?

"White Shield"
~ white cliffs Dover/chalk Downs/Albion, "St Alban('s)", Albanact, "Snowdon", Arthur's shield, Guinnion/*Alborum, "Guinevere", marble Camelot / marble at cruciform platform in Richborough, and/or white "Picts"?

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Edited by Arthur-Robin - 03-Dec-2016 at 02:59
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I was not going to waste anymore time on this (except for answering any peoples questions), since i have other things i need and want to do, and so far no one has given any positive feedback. But i couldn't stop the need and urge to do a brief summary table just on the briefest 9 sites matches to try to show how it can not be coincidence that all 9 sites have quantity and quality matches all in order. But remember the table is only brief and doesn't anywhere near include all evidences and explanations in our 12 battles paper/ebook and posts and tables. I just can not understand how some people who have argued with me can't see or accept any of the evidences, but as i said i have been forced to let it go due to other things i need/want to do.


12 Battles / 9 Battle-sites of "Arthur" in 'Historia Britonum' of "Nennius", Irish HB, 'Liber Floridus' of Omer, Higden.

The historically verified set of 9 actual historical/modern Saxon Shore sites (as in the 'Notita Dignitatum', etc).

1. ostium fluminis Glein/Glenii "the mouth of the river ((which is) called) Glein/Gleni"

2/1. Garianonum / Burgh/Caister / Great Yarmouth : 'Garien(n)i fluvii ostia' / 'ost. Gariennus flumen' "the mouth of the Garienus" / 'Gariannus Fluvius' / 'Gar[ienno]'. (Peter Glean? Glynde? Grime's graves? Iceni?)

2 (2-5). river Dub-glas ["black-water" / "blue-black"] (+ region Linnuis/Linnius ["region/district /polity /people/inhabitants (of) pools/lakes/ponds"]) (Near Mersee (Higden).)

3/2. Othona / Bradwell / Maldon : river Blackwater &/or river Ei-du-mannia/Eidumanis "element du "black"". (+ "Five Lakes near the coastal town of Maldon", "60 acres of beautiful parkland and lakes", "The Mid-Essex Coast Special Protection Area is of International importance as a wetland ..... means over millions of years, resulting in a landscape where lakes or ponds tend ...", "consisting of numerous lakes, ponds, boggy areas, willow swamp, scrub and", "Dengie Marshes". Lindsell/Lyndesele/Lindeseles/Lindezel, and Linford in Essex, and a Linford road East Tilbury? Lindsey in Suffolk? Limen Forteneses at Othona? Lu(n)dan-byrig? London?) [Two rivers Tamar & Limar?] Mersea Island.

3 (6). river Bassas ["shallow", or "ford", or "forehead"?]

4/3. Regulbium/Reculver : 'Basilicia' in Reculver inscirption. Cohors i Baetasiorum (from Baetasii) at Regulbium in ND. 'Bassa the priest' at Reculver in 669 (ASC). Regulbium/Reculver name means "at the promontory / great headland", and the fort "entrance faced north / on north side, facing the eponymous promontory". Episford/Ebissa? river Wantsum-Stour. [Two streams Rheidiol and Paith?]

4 (7). silua Caledonis ["wood Caledon"] (+ cat coit Celidon ["battle wood Celidon"])

0/3. The Weald (forest/wood) : 'sylva Caledonia' / 'Caledonia sylva' of Caesar's invasion (in Florus etc). 'Sylva Eegalis'. 'Anderida Silva'. Kit's Coty ("The Kit element has been interpreted as Categern or Battle and Coty as Wood, Coits or Stones and Small Cottage", or Keiton) & Coldrum, which 2 nearby sites are connected in Tradition and by Pilgrims Way. ["Green Shield"?]

5 (8). castellum ["fort(let)"] Guinnion/*Alborum ["white, fair, holy"] (Arthur's shoulder/s / shield", St Mary). ["Guinevere" in Modena Archivolt?] = Badon of AC/WA.

6. Dubris/Dover. White Cliffs. Albion. North Downs (chalk). Lighthouse. 'St Mary in Castro'. Glass Vessel. ["Guinevere" in Modena Archivolt? Y-Bryn-gwyn / Gwyn-fryn "White Hill/Tower" "facing France" of Bran story? Guintonhi/"Winchester" which "the earth shall swallow up" of HRB? Gwenwisa dtr of Caesar/Claudius in '24 kings & 33 cities'? "White Shield"? Guiderius? Kent is linked with Christ and St Mary in 694.] At Dover is "lost village of Braddon within Drop Redoubt on Dover Western Heights", "the ancient name of Braddon", "I would suspect that Bradden would more likely be on the highest point of the hill".

6 (9). 'urbe/urbs Legionis' "city of the legion" (+ Cairlion). [Lygeanburg/Liganburh in ASC?]

5. Rutupiae/Richborough. 'orbs'/'civitas' (Orosius/Lucan), "city" (Bede). Legio 2 Augusta (from Caerleon) (ND). A civil(ian settlement) and commercial town; "metropolis". [St Paerburge of Leg(e)ceastre in Pa Halgan? Lygeanburg/Liganburh in ASC? Synod 'Urbs/Urbis Legionum/Legion(is)/ligionis'/"Chester" 601/602 (different to battle 'Caer Legion'/"Chester" 613/614) (AC) ~ St Augustine synod at "Chester" ~ 'Augustine's Ac' "Augustine's Oak" "on the borders of the Hwiccas" c603?]

7 (10). (Trat/Traeth [“road/shore/bank(s)”, or “river + wider geographical context like a bay” / “not properly a river but an inlet of the sea, a tract of marsh, or other shallow and sandy place usually covered with water… such as… a quagmire”?]) Tribruit/Ribroit/Arderit [“tidal estuary + 3/crossing + rushing [river]”, or “a place where three rivers empty into an estuary”, [or bruit "brook"?], or “a strand or stretch of beach beside the sea at a place where three rivers come together”, or brwydr “(piercing/pierced (through)/(through-)pierced,) battle” / “broken through” / ”(strand of the pierced or) broken (place)” / [beach], “((the) pierced or) broken (through) shore”, or brisare “press out”?] [“the frith, or marshy channel, of the open or unenclosed habitation”].

7. Lemanis / Stutfall / Lympne / Romney / Lliff Menai. "Stutfall Castle seems to have occupied a broad point of land forming the north shore of a strait separated by a wide tract of marsh and sandbank from the mainland. This sea channel gradually disappeared to become part of Romney Marsh but excavation has demonstrated that the shoreline was originally 1.8 meters below the present level of the marsh. The siting of the fort and its Classis Britannica predecessor, with the command of this narrow estuary, made good strategic sense enabling it to control all shipping entering the harbour…." Rye harbour/bay; Denge marsh; Romney marsh (from aet_thaere_ruman_e “broad river”); Sandtun (tidal inlet); Rother(bridge) river/banks (tidal estuary); Tidebrook; Brede (tidal channel); Lemanis (intertidal areas); Lymne (banks). 3 rivers (Brede being one). 3 pronged inlet of sea in Roman times (maps). (Atrebates (border there)? Bibroci (border there)? 'Cl Br'? 'thetis_Rhutupinaque_littora'/"Rutupian shore"/Triputiensis? Ypres Tower (Rye)? 'Ripp (Wood)'? Trebeurden?)

8 (11). Mt Breguoin ["(white) hills/uplands"] / Agned ["massacre", or "sorrows", or "pure, virgins, lamb" [virgin martyr], or "pasture + headland"?] / Cat Bregion. ('castellum puellarum' "Castle of Maidens", 'montem dolorosum' "Mountain of Sorrow", near 'Albani' "white" (HRB).)

8. Anderida (fort) / Pevensey. 'caer/coid Andred' (477/491/756/893)? '((H)on) Avg-Ndr' tiles/stamps? Massacre here in 477/488/491. (Montague nw of Pevensey? Lower Agney? Mountney Level?) 'Cl Br' tiles/stamps? (Mt Caburn? Boulogne? Bre Regin? Bre Gwoden?) South Downs (chalk). Abulcorum.

9 (12). penetrated to Mt/Hill Badon, or Baddesdown-hill (Bede). (Most severe contest. 940/960/470 fell.) (Hot lake, bath(s).) ("Solsbury".)

9. portus Adurni/Adiuni/Ardaoni/Ardaoneon (fort) "fort/port of the height", Portsdown Hill, Portchester. [Mantuantonis/Mutu-antonis (Ravenna cosmo. # 69)?] B(i)eda son of Port 501 (ASC)? "After participating in crucial early battles on the rivers Medway and Thames, he [Vespasian] was sent to reduce the south west, penetrating through the modern counties of Hampshire, Wiltshire, Dorset, Somerset, Devon and Cornwallf". [Natanleod (slain with 5000 in 508) ~ gwledig Naw Cant Lliwed “ruler of 900 (warrior) companies”?] Southampton geothermal. Solent.

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Posts: 937 		  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2016 at 07:59

From the table in the last post we can see that it is not just a "hobby horse" as someone on Historum insultingly unfairly untruly said a few days ago.
Nor is it "no one knows" as another person there asserted days ago. (They think they know it all (and that they think they see there is no genuine history to the 12 battles list), and that everyone else doesn't know as much as them, and that they know better than us? Or perhaps it is a lie and it suits them to keep it "not known"?) Fact is they can't say "no one knows", because i know, though they think i know wrong, they can only say they don't know and that they think no one knows.
Btw Dover and Richborough seem analogous to prehistorical centre Salisbury (high) and a.d. capital London (low)?

Below: Table for details matches of first battle site Glein (Gariannonum/Burgh/Yarmouth).

“Primum bellum fuit in ostium fluminis quod dicitur Glein/Gleuy.”
Or,
“His/The 1st battle (in which he was engaged,) was at/[above/totheeastof] the mouth of the river ((which is) called) Glein/Gleni/Gleuy.”
(- "Nennius" 'HB', &/or Irish 'HB', &/or 'Liber Floridus'.)

(I put them in the table in the order of the quoted HB/Nennius verse. We see that "Nennnis" did not give so "scanty" details as some have asserted.)

Details of 1st battle site of Arthur (Glein) in HB of Nennius & other sources

Matching details of the actual modern/historical site (Great Yarmouth)

("his/he",) (dux bellorum) Arthur, and kings & military force of Britain/Britons.

Evidences for Britons in the area may include: History Files and wiki articles mention evidences of late British presence at Caerlerion, Caerwent, Colchester, Walton. Some say the fens were a refuge for Britons. [Ursicinus of Hoxne hoard?] Count Theodosius the brown bear? Caerwent of lai of Ywenec? St Leonard's on Mousehold Heath [cp Llwyn-arth]? "Norfolk has more large Anglo-Saxon cemeteries than the neighbouring East Anglian county of Suffolk". Modern genetic map posted on Apricity forum showed East Anglia less Germanic. "The dolichocephali, or long-skulled type of men, who, in part, preceded the English, have been found abundantly in the Suffolk region of the Littus Saxonicum, where the Celt and Saxon [Englishman] are not known to have met as enemies when East Anglia became a kingdom." "510-555 emigration of Angles & Frisians to the Continent". East Anglia "must have been loosely organised" "not enough to make the north folk and south folk forget their differences ... became separate shires...." (Yarmouth is near dividing line of Norfolk & Suffolk.)

1st (of 9)

2nd, but 1st excluding omitted 1st ND fort Branodunum. Ours is not just one isolated site but 9 sites all matching and all in order/numbers with an attested set of 9 sites.

battle

Possible evidences for battle there include the SS fort with possible traces of battle(s) there. Saxon Shore is strategic. Spong Hill graves? The name of Grime's Graves? Cerdicshore battle (ASC, GYAM)? Granfelden 675? St Mary in the Field? [One of the two sites (Burgh / Caistor) had some Saxon/Briton religious associations which may connect with battle there?]

at / above / to east of

Caistor is on north side of estuary? "on western edge of Caistor"? Burgh is on opp side of estuary, on eastern bank of southernmost part of Breydon water, few miles sw of Caistor, "w of Burgh Castle"? "Burgh Castle (Norfolk) near the mouth of the river Yare". .... The Yare flows from west to east and the mouth of the Yare is to/in the east

ostium/*aber/mouth. Ostium can mean either "vicinity to the embouchure of a river" or "door/entrance/mouth", or "confluence". "Nennius used ostium not aestuarium". Some scholar's proposed original *Aber can mean either "estuary" &/or "confluence, a river's confluence with another" &/or "(river) mouth, the mouth of a river at the coast".

Garien(n)i fluvii ostia / ost Gariennus flumen / Gerne-mwa / Great Yar-mouth. This site has a mouth, and a confluence, and an estuary. Burgh/Caistor is at mouths of 4 rivers. "Burgh Castle (Norfolk) near the mouth of the river Yare".

fluminis/river. "Nennius says/uses fluminis/fluvium not rivius". Fluminis/fluvium can mean "running water" and/or "river/stream".

Garien(n)i fluvii ostia / ost Gariennus flumen / river Yare (or Waveney or ...). One of the proposed meaning of Gariannonum is "babbling".

Glein/Gleni/Gleuy (name)

Garieni/Garienus / Gar[ienno] / Gariannonum / Gerne / Yare.

Some people scathingly adamantly assertingly "authoritatively" claim that Glein and Garieni are different roots (or that they are not able to say they agree because they and/or i are not certified linguists. However there is such quantity and quality evidences that all the 9 sites definitely match, and it must be 1 of these 4 certainly-possible solutions: Either Glein and Garieni are same/related name/origin (their linguistics are demonstrably only theory and not definite fact), or else "unreliable" Nennius did a clever pun (there are known/possible examples of such elsewhere in HB and in world history), or only the meaning matches the site not the actual name (and name is only Nennius'), or else we got wrong local name match and there is some other local name that matches. (Other names in wider area include Peter Gleane, Grime's graves, St Giles, and i think i saw a Glynde near there in Norfolk/Suffolk?)

meaning of name: The linguistic root and meaning of the name Glein is not necessarily definite, proposed meanings include: gleno "holy", or *glan/glen/glem/gem "pure (river)/clear/clean/bright/brilliant/gem", or glain "glass/crystal/gem", or glen/glyn/gleann/glin/*glinn "a glen, valley (of the river)/(river of the) valley, dale, head of the hollar, where a valley butts up against the mountain, usually with a spring" (related to klettr "cliff") or "mountain valley", or dyn Glan "man alive", or glind "fence, enclosure".

the linguistic root and meaning of the name Garieni is not necessarily definite, proposed "probable" meanings include: gar "ash", “shout, babble/babbling (river)”, or “rough”, or ear "gravel(ly)". Some of the meanings of Glein may match our site. There is a glass vessel at Burgh castle (as there also is at Dover) re the "holy", "glass" or "clear/pure" meaning. There is a cliff at this site, and the fort "underlying hillside, on summit of ground sloping steeply towards estuary of river Waveney, overlooking estuary/marsh. (Grandval 675?)

ostium fluminis Glein/Gleni "mouth of the river Glein"

Garien(n)i fluvii ostia / ost Gariennus flumen "mouth of the Garienus"

against Saxons

Saxons ranged from Wash to Solent. The "Saxon Shore". Spong Hill graves. Some say Cerdicsshore may have been at Yarmouth? One of the othodox theoretical criticisms of our thesis is that they think the s.e. quarter of Britain was all Anglo-Saxon. "Jews Way" (& "Jews Lane") (meaning enigmatic people). "Norfolk has more large Anglo-Saxon cemeteries than the neighbouring East Anglian county of Suffolk". "Roman and Saxon integration" in Saxon Shore fort(s) area. "British strategy seems to have been to allow Saxon landings and to then contain them, there." Of the SS forts "There has been no consensus amongst those who write about the transition from the Romans to the Anglo-Saxons." ....

before Ida c 547

.... (The dates of Burgh would seem to fit better than dates of Caistor.)

HB/Nennius (including Wonders)

Some wonders of Britain match a number of the 9 battle sites. Not sure if any Wonders do or don't match this site. Some possible Wonders that might match are ....

history

true historical actual site match. Haven't yet any certain historical chronicle matches but some possible candidates may include Theodosius? Germanus? Cerdicshore battle (ASC, GYAM)?

(island of) Britain

is in Great Britain

Indirect matches via intermediate: 9 HB battle sites match 9 PG battles. 1st battle Glein of HB matches 1st battle Tribruit of PG. Glein 1st battle of HB may match Grynn 1st servant of the Porter. Plain of Lleenawg of Taliesin may link with Glein?

Indirect matches: 9 PG battle sites also match 9 actual SS sites. The Breydon water at this 1st actual SS site also matches 1st battle Tribruit of PG. 1st servant ofthe Porter Grynn may offer intermediate between Glein/Gleni and Garieni/Gariannonum? Plain of Lleenawg of Taliesin may link with fields of Burgh site? Gravel bank of Garanyn(yon)of Taliesin may link with Gariannonum? Glass vessel at Burgh might link with Igraine?

Others not just me: Some others have also located an HB battle(site) at Gariannonum/Norwich (but Guinnion not Glein). No one has disproven our 9 sites match(es), they only reject it for 1 reason for each site (ignoring all the quantity and quality of our site(s) matches evidences). Prof Fields locates the 12 battles "up and down the east coast".

Others not just me: Some others have also located an HB battle(site) at Gariannonum/Norwich (but Guinnion not Glein).



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Posts: 937 		  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2016 at 23:17
Well i just have to keep my half disagreement on that to myself, as the trouble with forums is they can and do unfairly ban people. At least i haven't been banned from here so far.

Here is a table on correspondences of all 9 battle sites between different sources.

source

1st

2nd

3rd/4th

4th/3rd

5th/middle / 6th

6th / 5th/middle

7th

8th

9th/last

12 battles, 9 battle-sites HB/Nennius, Irish HB, Liber Floridus, Higden

1 *aber/ ostium fluminis Glein/Gleni/Gleuy "mouth river Glein"

2/2-5 Dubglas "black water" (Linnuis "pools") [near Mersee] [Wygan /Witham?]

3/6 Bassas

4/7 silva Caledonis (cat coit Celidon) (Guinnoin in)

5/8 castellum Guinnion / *Alborum "fort(let)" + "white" (vs pagans / Saxons) (Mary, Cross, shoulder / shield) (in Caledon wood)

6/9 urbs/city of the Legion (Carlion)

7/10 (Trat)Tribruit / Ribroit / Arderit

8/11 Mt Agned / (Cat-)Bregion/Breuoin "(white) hills"

9/12 Badon hill/mt

9 ND/SS forts

2/1 Gariannonum

3/2 Othona (Limen fortenses)

4/3 Regulbium (cohors Baetasiorum [from Baetasii]

n.a. (in between)

6 Dubris (white)

5 Rutupiae "red top" (Legio 2 Augusta from Caerleon), Triputiensis, "city/civtas/orbs", [Lucrinum?]

7 Lemanis

8 Anderida (Abulcorum) ((H)on Avg_Ndr), (Cl Br), (Andred)

9 portus Adurni "height" (&/or Clausentum)

9 modern / historical actual sites

1 Burgh, Great Yar-mouth, Breydon Water. Garieni. Gar[ienno]. Gerne-mwa. (Spong Hill?Grimes Graves?)

2 Bradwell, Maldon, Ithancester, Lu(n)dan-byrig, river Blackwater, Witham, river Ei-du-mannia "element du black", Dengie Marshes, Mersea Island

4 Reculver, monastery-church, Reculver Cross, 'Basilica', Bassa the priest, Wantsum-Stour

3 Kit's Coty "battle + wood" & Coldrum, Pilgrims Way, Medway, Weald, Sylva Caledonia of Caesar, Sylva Eaglis. Countless Stones(can't be counted), Beult

6 Dover, white, Albion, St Mary in Castro, St Martin le Grand, Edinburgh Hill, Braddon, North Downs, W & E Heights, Colton, not far from a Snowdown

5 Richborough, large cruciform platform, amphitheatre, (Julius Caesar) (Caractacus), oysters

7 Stutfall, Lympne, Romney, Lliff Menai

8 Pevensey, South Downs, (Ashdown?), (Hastings?), ('(H)on Avg_Ndr'), (Andred)

9 (Bere by) Portchester, Portsdown Hill, Meon, &/or Bitterne, Southampton (geothermal)

"7"/9 PG battles/sites

1 Tribruit 1

2 Eidyn 1

4/3 Afarnach's Hall

3/4 Celli "grove"

6 Mynydd Eidyn, Eidyn 2 (vs Cynbyn)

5 fastness /dwellings of Dissethach

7 Tribruit 2

8 uplands of Ystawinguin

9 Mon(a) /"Anglesey"

# Gwallawg battles (Taliesin)

1 plain of Lleeawg [&/or Agathes?]

2 Maw & Eidyn [&/or region Bretrewyn?]

Aeron [& retreat Brecheinawc, Gafran?]

wood Beit & hunter Mabon

Arddunion "fortress height" [& Eidyn?]

Gwensteri, Lloegyr

marsh Terra

Agathes & region Bretrewyn?

end of wood of Oleddyfein? [&/or Eidyn?]

12 Monasteries

Glyn Rosin?

Martrun? Hodnant?

Raglan?

Colguan?

Glasgwin?

7/6 Leominster, Lann Llieni

Repetun?

Croyland?

Bathonia

11 Consuls

Morvid of Gloucester?


... [&/or Boso of Rico/Ridoc/Richiden /"Oxford"?]


Cursalen of Kaicester?

5 Jugein of Legecester, [Rico/Ridoc /Richiden?]



Urgennius of Bath

13 Wonders of Britain



Levitating Altar, Swelling ford? Appled Ash?

Amrs Tomb (can't be measured), Archen-field; Cabal's Cairn, Buelt? [Swelling ford?]

Sealess shore? DurRig Habren? [Pictish Palace?]

Cruc Mawr, Returning Plank, Lynn Liuan (army, ebbs), Circling Mount, omitted in Irish, [limpets of Ceoil?

loch Lumonoy


Hot Lake, Salt fountain, river Trahannon?

15 Children of Brychan

St Ive /Johannes

St Endellion /Endelient? Dyfnan / Duban?

Afallach? Minver /Menfre? or Marham? Ilud?

Mabyn /Mabon? Clether / Cleder?

7 St Wenn? Dyfrig? Iona?

Juliana?


Egloskerry? Egloshayle? Berwyn? Brynach?

14 Adwen /Advent (or Lanent?)

10 Glywys?

1 Gwynlliw /Gwynllyw? or 6 Gwrhai/Gurai/Gurinid

2 Etelic /Etelicchion/Edelygion

Margam? 4/3 Penychen?

3/4 Pedrog (no part)? Kidwely?

1 Gwynlliw/Gwynllyw or 6 Gwrhai/Gurai/Gurinid

principal seat? Crucmetil? Serugunid? Pedrog?

Margam?

Penychen?

Crucmetil?

7 servants of the Porter

1 Grynn




5

Gwrdnei cat's eyes




7 Clust(veinyd)?

ASC /Ethelwerd 571 (later re/taking by Saxons)



Bensington?

Aylesbury?

Egonesham /Ignesham?

"city" Lygeanburg /Liganburh




ASC 577?







Glewancester?


Bath?

ASC (no gains gap 519-552)

Cerdicsshore?

"London"

Avene / Cerdicsford?

Cerdicsleag?

Wiht-garas-burh?calends Martii 538?

calends Julius 540?



Sarum & Beranbury? Wibbandune?

Scilly / Lyonesse (analogousnamesakes)




Hoary rock in the Wood

Hoary Rock in the wood

city of Lions /Lyonesse?


St Agnes?


3 several battles, HRB/Geoff


Dubglas, "Lincoln", London


"Caledonian", London

"Bath"? "Alclud"?

?

"3 several battles"? "Lomond".

"Totness"? "Alclud"?

"Severn" & "Bath"?

W Saxons (Sayles) (ASC)(GYAM)

Wash, (Cerdics-shore?)








Solent, (Cerdic-shore?)

3 HRB




Kamber?

Albanact

Locrin(us)




2/3/4 Sts DEB/HRB



St Aaron


St Alban('s), "Verulam" / Uerolam-iensem

St Julius. Amphibalus?




3 battles Triads




Cad Godeu / Cad Achren

Arthuret?

Camlan?




3 Renowned Cities / Beroul





Isneldone /"Snowdon" "snow hill"

Cuerlion




3 solemnities Padarn





calends May?

calends July ; metropolis of Padarn / campus Heli




3 churches Padarn

maritime?


martime, or Again's Cross / middle?


Again's Cross / middle, or Great/last

Again's Cross / middle, or Great/last ; metropolis of Padarn / campus Heli



Great/last?

DEB/Gildas, AC/WA, Tysilio, HRB/Geoff, EH/Bede, Taliesin





siege Mt Badon (near "Win-chester") (feasts)?




Mt Badon (near Winchester) (feasts) / Baddesdown-hill / "Bath". (Posentesburh?)

Prophecy of Merlin





Guintonhi /"Winchester" (earth shall swallow)




Baths of Badon?

HRB





Alclud, Albani



Agned, castle of maiens, castellum Puellarum


PaHalgan





Martinus, Doferum. (Eafe?)

St Paerburge, Legeceastre

Limmingce?



Earls





Doorn?


Limours?



lai of Ywenec

Carwent?

Doglas?



Carwent? "Doglas"?

Carlion




Taliesin

gravel bank Garanwyn(yon)?




Dubriactus?





Avalon sources



10/13 Hall on isle of Afallach, Avalon (in North Sea), Avaron







Canu Heleydd



Bassalig



Campus Electi?




Galician (analogous)





Santa Maria de Bretona? Tower of Hercules?

Sant-iago de Compstela?




Breton (analogous)





Gwenedeg/Vannes?

Leon?




Vulgate cycle




fine hunting grounds Arestal

fortress on a lofty Saxon Rock in region of Arestal nearby narrows of Godalente





24 Ks & 33 Cities / HRB/Geoff




Green Shield

White Shield, Darian Las? Marsia /Martia & 'Caer Baris' / "Dorchester" "by the sea"? Castell y Morwynion / Mynydd y Tristydd? Gwenwissa/ Genuissa dtr of Caesar / Claudius? "Jerusalem"

"Caerleon"


?

Bladud/Bath /Badon?





Celidoine

Galafort (sign of cross)





Stephen de Bourbon (analogous)





St Guinefort (cyno-cephali)

Lyon?




584




green woodland

(white town / "Chester"?)

white town in valley - town of white stone / "Chester"?








wood-clad rock

Lofty wood-clad rock dinas Emrys? Vast insulated rock dinas Emrys?





Merlin sources



Merlin Avellenaw

Merlin Wylt, Merlin Caledonensis, MerlinSilverstris

[Car-marthen?]

[Car-marthen?] "Merlin's town Caerleon"




Fife (analogous)




Culdees?

St Mary on the Rock





St Patrick






soldiers of Corocticus? Patrick "father of citizens"? Cruc?









Camelot (marble, yellow)?

Camelot (marble, yellow)?




HRB, AC





St Dyfrig/ Dubricius (of Legions)

(Dubricius of) Legions, Tremounus of Legions




Landavensis






[urbs legionum or Caerlleon]




[Will of Worcester?]




se nemus

"Stirling"?

"Stirling"?




Sts Lives





Do(c)guinnus / Llanddyfrwyr





Round Table (Wace, Beroul)





Round Table rotates like world, siege perilous, at castle Snowdon "snow hill", at castle "Windsor"

Round Table rotates like world, at city of the legion / caer-leon




Tristan & Yseut




Coed Celyddon

Castle Dore? Castle of Snowdon? Castle of "Windsor"?

city of Lions / Lyonesse




Modena Archivoilt





"Guinevere", tower/castle, Galvarium





Urien (Taliesin)

Aberioed?


Aeron? ford? Inver?

underwood of Cadleu? (al-Clud?)Affair at head of wood?

Ulph? "ford" of Al-clud?Affair at head of wood?

Llwyvenydd?


Brewyn?

Cludvein? Affair at head of wood?

8 labours Turein /Turenn?





4th two steeds Dobar?
































































































































































































































































I will also do tables on each of the 9 battle sites showing correspondences of the details of each site as given in Nennius/HB and the matches with/in the ND/SS and actual sites. (2 columns: 1 the HB site details, and 2 the SS/actual site matching details.)

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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2016 at 22:37
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin


I was having this debate about the 12 battles of Arthur on Historum again in the last few weeks and they have just now unfairly banned ("suspended") me again ("for multiple accounts", because they refused to answer me when i asked whether i could come back or not after they unfairly suspended me over a year ago), so i have to come back to Allempires (i had left AE because Centrix kept closing my topics, and a couple of threads had also went missing some other times) and post on the 9 battle sites of Arthur here. (There are not anymuch very good history forums on the net/web.)

(I searched my past posts history and can't find any topics already on this, except one onwho was real Arthur, and other on Badon.)

Our discovery was that the 12 battles 9 battle sites of Arthur in the 'Historia Britonum' of "Nennius" match 8 of the 9 Saxon Shore forts of the Notita Dignitatum from Yarmouth to Portsmouth (plus 1 site in between). We also found that the Pa Gur's 9 battle sites also match the same HB & ND/SS & modern sites, plus the battle list of Gwallawg in Taliesin also seemingly maybe matches.

Table:
# HB/Nennius - ND/SS - modern sites - PG - Gwallawg/Taliesin?
1 Glein - Garianonum - Burgh - Tribruit 1 - Lleenawg?
2 Dubglas - Othona - Bradwell - Eidyn 1 - Eidyn?
3/4 Bassas - Regulbium - Reculver - Afarnach - Aeron?
4/3 Celidon - n.a. - Coldrum - Celli - wood Beit?
5/6 Guinnion - Dubris - Dover - Eidyn 2 - Arddunion?
6/5 Legions - Rutupi - Richborough - Dissethach - Gwensteri?
7 Tribruit - Lemanis - Lympne - Tribruit 2 - marsh Terra?
8 Agned/Bregion - Anderida - Pevensey - Ystawinguin - Agathes/Brewyn?
9 Badon - Adurni - Portchester - Mon(a) - Oleddyfein?

Map:
http://2rbetterthan1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/map-12battleska-9fortsss2.png

Rough ebook thesis paper:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1600

----------

Today i had posted in my Historum blog a list of possible synonyms for each of the 9 sites.
I had then got the idea that a table for each of the 9 sits would be better way for people to see the many interconnections between matching sites of different Welsh/etc sources/lists.
http://historum.com/blogs/gold+heart/31698-candidate-synonyms-9-battlesites-arthur.html

This is one on 3rd/4th battle/site Bassas / Reculver which i had intended to post but found been unfairly banned. (Hope the table comes out alright.)


Source

Bassas

Reculver (&/or near Rutupi)

Avalon

church

cross

ford

number/order

HB

Bassas



[see Wonders]

[see Wonders]

river, "shallow" / "ford"

3rd/6th

ASC 669

Bassa the priest

Reculver (near Rutupi)


(priest)


Wantsum-Stour


Reculver inscription

Basilica

Reculver (near Rutupi)


Basilica


Wantsum-Stour


ND/SS

Baetasiorum (from Baetasii)

Regulbium




(Wantsum-Stour)

4th/3rd

modern / historical


Reculver



Reculver Cross

Wantsum-Stour

4th/3rd

PG



Afarnach's

Hall



4th/3rd

12 Monasteries


Raglan


(monastery)



#

11 Consuls

Boso?

Rico/Ridoc?




"Oxford"

#

ASC 571

Bensington







Gwallawg



Aeron [or Gafran?]

[retreat?]



#

Children of Brychan



Afallach?

(Ilud?) or Marham church?

(Ilud?)


3rd or 6th?

DEB, HRB



St Aaron

(church?)



(in set of 2/3/4)

ASC/Ethelwerd 519



Avene?



Cerdicsford?


Wonders



Appled Ash? [Mysterious body of Levitating Altar may be Arthur]

(Levitating altar)

Levitating altar

Swelling ford/shallows?

10th

Triads



Afallach [Avalon]

Hall



10th/13th

Boron



Avaron




10th/13th

HRB


Riculf/Raculf






HRB



Akalon



(river)


24 Ks & 33 Cities

Caer Bosso?

Rhydycheu






Local Baschurch tradition

Baschurch


[Arthur's resting place]

Baschurch



[10th/13th]

?

Eglwysau Bassa "churches of Bassa"



Eglwysau "churches"




Canu Heleydd

Bassalig

[Campus Electi]







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The only topics closed are when ya drift off into troll like, spam like bullsheet. Which nine times out of ten were in the wrong sub to begin with.

And as you already know we DO NOT discuss other forums or their ACTIONS here.

Carry on.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 937 		  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2016 at 11:32
The 12 battles ebook has more matches for Agned & for Breguoin/Bregion in Anderida/Pevensey area. (It is only possible to show so much in a table.)

Not sure if this table for 6th/5th battle/site city of the legion (Rutupi/Richborough) will fit in here or come out all right?

Source

Legion / Caerleon (&/or Locrin / Logres)

city

Rutupi / Triputiensis (&/or near Reculver)

Julius

number / order

Padarn

capital

river

Cross

Round Table / Amphi-theatre

Ceretic

oysters

wave

Camelot

HB

city of the legion (car-lion)

city of the legion (car-lion)



6th/9th


(city)








ND/SS

Legio 2 Augusta


Rutupiae

(Julius Caesar)

5th



(Stour)


Rutupi "red top"? Amphitheatre

(Caractacus)




Bede


city of Rutubi

city of Rutupi












Orosius / Lucan


civtas, orbs

Rutupiae












Ptolemy


town

Rutupiae












Juvenal?

[Lucrinum?]


Rutupi?












German inscriptions



Triputiensis












"Richard of Cirencester"


metropolis, city

Rutupi


(primary)


primary station, metropolis, of such celebrity that





oysters



modern / historical

(legio Augusta)

(borough)

Richborough

(Julius Caesar)

5th/6th



Stour

large cruciform platform

amphitheatre

(Caractacus)

oysters

(Ebbsfleet?)


PaGur


dwellings of Dissethach



5th


(dwellings)






fastness of Dissethach


11 Consuls HRB

Legecester

(cester)


Jugein?

5th










(11 Consuls)



(Rico/ Ridoc / Richiden?)


#










12 Monasteries

Leominster




7th/6th








Lann Llieni


ASC 571

Lygeanburg / Liganburh

"city", (burh)













Gwallawg / Taliesin





#


Lloegyr








Children of Brychan




Juliana?











DEB, HRB

"Caerleon"

city/caer


St Julius

(set of 3)





amphitheatre , Amphibalus?



(amphi-balus?)


ASC 540




calends of Julius 540











3 Solemnities Padarn




calends of July

(set of 3)

Padarn









3 Churches Padarn





middle or last?

Padarn



Again's Cross?






3 renowned cities / Beroul

Cuerlion

cuer / renowned cities



(set of 3)


(renowned cities)








HRB

Locrin(us)




set of 3


(Lloegria)








Wonders

Lynn Liuan (army)?

former rustic



6th




Cruc Mawr

Circling rock/mount

Cereticiaun


Lynn Liuan (ebbs), (omitted in Irish HB?)

?

Arthurian





9th

(Peryddon?)

(Peryddon?)


(Gawain's grave?)




9th wave Peryddon


24 Ks & 33 Cities

"Caerleon"

caer, 2nd Rome, chief city





2nd Rome, chief city of GB

"(up)on Usk"


?





Sts Lives


metropolis



set of 3

Padarn

metropolis







Campus Heli

Pa Halgan

Legeceastre

(ceastre), (burge)




St Paerburge?









Legend

city of Lions / Lyonesse

city







?




sunken / submerged


HRB

Tremounus of Legions


Tremounus




(archbishop/ metropolitan)


(Tremounus?)






Great Victory Arthur 540/640




540











Wace / [Beroul]

?

?



?


?



Round Table rotates like world




?

Arthurian

#?






?

...


?




Camelot

Irish HB Wonders

omitted








omitted

omitted

omitted

Limpets of Ceoil?

omitted


A source



Rocabarraigh?










Rocabarraigh


(St Patrick)

soldiers of Corocticus?

"father of citizens"?




Patrick?



Cruc...?


Coroticus?




[Ardrey]

[city of the legion]


Trimontium?






Trimontium?





?

Stephen of Bourbon

Lyon?




set of 2










Breton

Leon

Carhaix













Galician




Sant-Iago?



?







Compostela?

584

"Chester"

town



?

white stone?


(valley?)

(white stone?)




(valley?)



(The table is not quite complete, but it starts to show the many inter-connections vertically and horizontally.)

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Posts: 937 		  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2016 at 11:25
Here is table for 8th battle site Agned/Breguoin / Pevensey/Anderida:

source

Agned /

Andred

(Cat)Bregion

Pevensey

Ystawinguin

Abulcorum

Downs

sorrows

fort

number/order

HB

Agned

(Cat)Bregion




(mt) "(white) hills/uplands"

"sorrow(s)" "death, massacre"


8th

ASC / Ethelwerd 477/491 / 756 / 893

(caer/coid) Andred


(Pevensey)

(Ashdown)


(South Downs / Ashdown)

massacre

(caer)


stamps/tiles

((H)on) Avg Ndr


(Pevensey)


(Abulcorum)

(South Downs)


(fort)


ND/SS

Anderida


(Pevensey)

(Hastings?)

Abulcorum

(South Downs)

(massacre)

fort

8th

stamps/tiles

(Anderida)

Cl Br

(Pevensey)



(South Downs)


fort


modern/historical

(Anderida)


Pevensey

(Ashdown?) (Hastings?)


South Downs


fort

8th

PG




Ystawinguin


uplands



8th

Gwallawg/Taliesin

Agathes?

Bretrewyn?




bre- "hill(s)"?

(defence?) "virgin martyr"?



HRB

Agned




Puellarum

(mount(ain) (Albani)

sorrow, maidens?

castle

[8th]

Bede



Peanfahel?


Abercorn / Abercurnig?

(Alcluith?)




Children of Brychan

Egloskerry / Egloshayle?

Berwyn?







#

Bergion brother to Albion


Bergion




Albion





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Posts: 937 		  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2016 at 05:25

I was having this debate about the 12 battles of Arthur on Historum again in the last few weeks and they have just now unfairly banned ("suspended") me again ("for multiple accounts", because they refused to answer me when i asked whether i could come back or not after they unfairly suspended me over a year ago), so i have to come back to Allempires (i had left AE because Centrix kept closing my topics, and a couple of threads had also went missing some other times) and post on the 9 battle sites of Arthur here. (There are not anymuch very good history forums on the net/web.)

(I searched my past posts history and can't find any topics already on this, except one onwho was real Arthur, and other on Badon.)

Our discovery was that the 12 battles 9 battle sites of Arthur in the 'Historia Britonum' of "Nennius" match 8 of the 9 Saxon Shore forts of the Notita Dignitatum from Yarmouth to Portsmouth (plus 1 site in between). We also found that the Pa Gur's 9 battle sites also match the same HB & ND/SS & modern sites, plus the battle list of Gwallawg in Taliesin also seemingly maybe matches.

Table:
# HB/Nennius - ND/SS - modern sites - PG - Gwallawg/Taliesin?
1 Glein - Garianonum - Burgh - Tribruit 1 - Lleenawg?
2 Dubglas - Othona - Bradwell - Eidyn 1 - Eidyn?
3/4 Bassas - Regulbium - Reculver - Afarnach - Aeron?
4/3 Celidon - n.a. - Coldrum - Celli - wood Beit?
5/6 Guinnion - Dubris - Dover - Eidyn 2 - Arddunion?
6/5 Legions - Rutupi - Richborough - Dissethach - Gwensteri?
7 Tribruit - Lemanis - Lympne - Tribruit 2 - marsh Terra?
8 Agned/Bregion - Anderida - Pevensey - Ystawinguin - Agathes/Brewyn?
9 Badon - Adurni - Portchester - Mon(a) - Oleddyfein?

Map:
http://2rbetterthan1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/map-12battleska-9fortsss2.png

Rough ebook thesis paper:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1600

----------

Today i had posted in my Historum blog a list of possible synonyms for each of the 9 sites.
I had then got the idea that a table for each of the 9 sits would be better way for people to see the many interconnections between matching sites of different Welsh/etc sources/lists.
http://historum.com/blogs/gold+heart/31698-candidate-synonyms-9-battlesites-arthur.html

This is one on 3rd/4th battle/site Bassas / Reculver which i had intended to post but found been unfairly banned. (Hope the table comes out alright.)


Source

Bassas

Reculver (&/or near Rutupi)

Avalon

church

cross

ford

number/order

HB

Bassas



[see Wonders]

[see Wonders]

river, "shallow" / "ford"

3rd/6th

ASC 669

Bassa the priest

Reculver (near Rutupi)


(priest)


Wantsum-Stour


Reculver inscription

Basilica

Reculver (near Rutupi)


Basilica


Wantsum-Stour


ND/SS

Baetasiorum (from Baetasii)

Regulbium




(Wantsum-Stour)

4th/3rd

modern / historical


Reculver



Reculver Cross

Wantsum-Stour

4th/3rd

PG



Afarnach's

Hall



4th/3rd

12 Monasteries


Raglan


(monastery)



#

11 Consuls

Boso?

Rico/Ridoc?




"Oxford"

#

ASC 571

Bensington







Gwallawg



Aeron [or Gafran?]

[retreat?]



#

Children of Brychan



Afallach?

(Ilud?) or Marham church?

(Ilud?)


3rd or 6th?

DEB, HRB



St Aaron

(church?)



(in set of 2/3/4)

ASC/Ethelwerd 519



Avene?



Cerdicsford?


Wonders



Appled Ash? [Mysterious body of Levitating Altar may be Arthur]

(Levitating altar)

Levitating altar

Swelling ford/shallows?

10th

Triads



Afallach [Avalon]

Hall



10th/13th

Boron



Avaron




10th/13th

HRB


Riculf/Raculf






HRB



Akalon



(river)


24 Ks & 33 Cities

Caer Bosso?

Rhydycheu






Local Baschurch tradition

Baschurch


[Arthur's resting place]

Baschurch



[10th/13th]

?

Eglwysau Bassa "churches of Bassa"



Eglwysau "churches"




Canu Heleydd

Bassalig

[Campus Electi]







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Fluoridated water ("kool-aid", wormwood) harms disadvantaged peoples (like i am) lives/health/ability.


Edited by Arthur-Robin - 23-Nov-2016 at 05:31
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