12 battles of "(King) Arthur"

Certain people in Arthurian groups in facebook etc keep untruly making out that our Arthur's battle sites matches are "philologically impossible" etc.

After years of experience it is evident that the world is negative and only likes negative destructive critical and not constructive positive (except their own elite ones). Everyone always seems to prefer negative critical pulling down. So instead of us hopelessly trying to show stark evidences of our battle sites matches it seems we instead should be negative ourselves and pull apart and pull down the orthodox battle sites candidates that they avow to supposedly be so superior to ours.

"Glein = Glen (in northern Northumberland or Lincoln (or Leicester))"
What do the "superior" "experts" have? Only one or two/few matches points and nothing much else (the possible name match, and maybe also the Bede's site connection, and that it is "near to Lindsey", and of course it is a river/fluminis, plus some add the river water colour contrast to the Witham "Dubglas"). Don't worry that one of their Glens is "in Linnuis" while the HB only said Dubglas was in Linnuis. Don't worry that one "doesn't have a mouth/estuary" (though some try to say "but it does have a confluence/aber"). Don't worry that Gefrin is not so close to Glein as they claimed their site's Glen name is; don't worry that Gefrin is similar to our own site's name. Don't worry that they don't have an ostium and don't have all 3 words "ostium fluminis Glein" matching like our sites does (don't worry that our site has match for all 3 words). Don't worry that their site is not in an attested set of 9 sites, and don't worry that their site is not number "1st" of 9/12. Don't worry that one of their sites doesn't have any distinctive defenses. Don't worry that they can't even decide or prove which of the 2 Glens that Glein supposedly actually is. Don't worry that Arthur's battles were against "Saxons" ("and specifically Kentishmen"?) and were "before Ida", (and that Octa or Cerdic is mentioned not Ida?) which rules-out Northumbrian Angles. (The main 9 Saxon Shore sites were in the south-east quarter not as far up as Lincoln & Northumbria, as seen in map.) No don't worry, the experts are all right gods, we are just dumb dogs who "supposedly don't know philology/toponomy" etc. Don't worry they have only One possible name match and nothing else but their match is superior to ours which has many matches and is only rejected because of only only one or two disputed points. Our site(s) has far  more quality and quantity matches in the battle site(s) details checklist than theirs and yet they constantly jjust keep trashing ours as "impossible" and their own as superior gods.

What of our site? There is only one or two reasons they reject our site's match. One just because they keep insisting that "Glein can't be related to Garieni" because "the experts know better than" us despite our evidences. Other reason they keep insisting that the south-east quarter was all only Saxon and not any Britons/Welsh/Arthurians there (even though they admit recently that the views of this are changing).

Is our Garieni / Gariannonum name really so different? Compare another name in the French Saxon Shore sites  "Grannona, perhaps Granvile". (Even the words "Grannona ... at the mouths of the Seine..." might also be suggestive of another possibly analogous connection with our 'mouth of river Glein'?)

Checklist of details of Glein battle site from the sources that mention it:

Glein name/meaning
Had a major ostium/aber/confluence/mouth
Was a fluminis/river there
(All 3 words "ostium fluminis ... Glein")
In the east (Arthurian Infopedia version)
Was not "in Linnuis" like Dubglas was
Number/order "1st" of 9/12 sites/battles
Part of an attested set of 9/12 sites
In a triad of 3 rivers sites
Contrasted with Dubglas
Near next battle site Dubglas/Linnuis
Matches Tribruit in PG & Lleenawg in Taliesin
A battle fought there, strategic, defenses/fortifications
The 1st battle of Arthur was lost
Arthur/Britons were/fought there
Fought against Saxons from Germany (LF, HB)
Date between Octa and Ida (HB)
In "(the island of) Britain" (HB)
Is "history" (HB)
May be connected with the Wonders

Whose site matches Glein better the orthodox Glen site or ours?

Glein name/meaning
our site: we say yes, they claim "no"
their site: "yes" (though Gefrin is not so close)

Had a major ostium/aber/confluence/mouth
our site: our site big double Yes
their site: their site one has no mouth though as a confluence

Was a fluminis/river there
our site: yes (same word)
their site: yes (one has same word)

(All 3 words "ostium fluminis ... Glein")
our site:  yes ours has all 3 words matching.
their site: one site has two words matching.

In the east (Arthurian Infopedia version)
our site: yes
their site: yes (though very far north)

Was not "in Linnuis" like Dubglas was
our site: ours matches not in Linnuis
their site: one of theirs is in their "Linnuis"

Number/order "1st" of 9/12 sites/battles
our site: ours is 1st of 9 matching sites set
their site: NO.

Part of an attested set of 9/12 sites
our site: Yes.
their site: No.

In a triad of 3 rivers sites
our site: Yes
their site: ?

Contrasted with Dubglas
our site: [presumably Yes]
their site: "Yes"

Near next battle site Dubglas/Linnuis
our site: Yes
their site: "Yes", they make a big deal that their site is near in line to the 2nd battle site, though Tweed is quite along way from Lincoln.

Matches Tribruit in PG & Lleenawg in Taliesin
our site:  Yes.
their site: No?

A battle fought there, strategic, defenses/fortifications
our site: Yes ours is a fort in Saxon Shore.
their site: one of their sites "has no significant features or defenses".

The 1st battle of Arthur was lost
our site: ours might match this
their site: does theirs match this?

Arthur/Britons were/fought there
our site: They claim "no" but we show evidence that can be yes.
their site: Not so simple. Lothian was British but seems stretch for Arthur fighting in border of Lothian/Northumberland.

Fought against Saxons from Germany (LF, HB)
our site: Yes.
their site: they claim Saxons could be/include Angles. Main SS forts system was not north of the Wash in the ND & map.

Date between Octa and Ida (HB)
our site: Ours fits this much better.
their site: Theirs doesn't match Octa well or before Ida as well, though they can say it could possibly match.

In "(the island of) Britain" (HB)
our site: Yes
their site: yeah.

Is "history" (HB)
our site: Yes
their site: maybe though they don't have any evidences except possible name match.

May be connected with the Wonders
our site: might match one or more of the Wonders.
their site: ?

Surely our site(s) has far more quality and quantity matches than the orthodox Glen one (which only really has possible name match and nothing much else).



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 02-Jul-2018 at 16:23

Continuing the attempt to better re-write the 9 sites matches evidences.

3rd battle site Bassas (Reculver).

The 3rd battle site of Arthur in the HB is 'Bassas' which we found seems to match Reculver/Regulbium the 4th/3rd Saxon Shore fort in the ND. Both of these also seem to match Afarnach's hall the 4th/3rd battle of Arthur in the PA Gur.

Number/order match:

Bassas is the 6th of 12 battles or the 3rd of 9 battle sites of Arthur in the HB of Nennius.
Reculver/Regulbium is the 6th or 4th/3rd of 9 Saxon Shore forts/sites in the ND.
Afarnach's hall is the 4th/3rd of 9 battle sites of Arthur in the Pa Gur.

The 1st three battles sites of Arthur are all on rivers, the middle two/three are all settlements, and the last two/three are all hills/mountains. Our set of 9 Saxon Shore sites well matches this with the first 3 sites also all being on rivers, the middle ones all in Kent where settlements feature, and the last 3 all in the South Downs.

Name/meaning match:

The name Bassas/Bassus/Bassa/*Bassass- or Lassus/*Lussas (plural in the Latin, singular in the Irish) has been variously proposed by scholars to be from either:
bas "shallow",
[or bais "ford"?
or bass "mound in the estuary or bed of a river''?
or basse "low"?]
or katabasis "to go down, a ritualised symbolic descent (in)to the underworld/hell, descent from the interior to the coast possibly following the course of a river, the opposite of anabasis"?
[or bass/bathais "forehead" or "basket"?]
or basincge "goat skins"?
or "personal name, Bass's, (of) Bassa('s people), Bassingas",
or Boso/Bosso?
or Bassianus?

Reculver/Regulbium has a number of noticed seemingly-possible good matches for the name and/or meaning of Bassas:

1. The cohors i Baetasiorum was at Regulbium SS fort in the ND. Its name is said to originate from the Baetasii tribe. Also perhaps compare that one of someone's four suggestions for the linguistics of Bassas was bastast/bastass?

2. There is a prominent Reculver inscription from Roman times which majorly features the name/word "Basilica". There was also a basilica in Reculver which is one of "two of its principal buildings".

3. Bass/Bassa/Basse the (mass-)priest at Reculver in 669 in the ASC. This is indisputably cognate with the "personal name Bassa" meaning of Bassas favoured by some.

4. If some of Arthur's 12 battles possibly match Vortimer's 4 battles then Bassas seemingly might match Ep(i)sford or Saessenaeg habail, and this could be in the Wantsum-Stour area. The person name Ebissa/Eosa/Eopa/Ossa in the HRB is similar to Ep(i)sford and Bassas, and the person was in the same area. (There might also/alternatively be a connection with Pascent?)
One of the only few possible matches for Bassas in the ASC is Wipped(esfleot) 465, and this was possibly in the Wantsum-Stour and/or Ebbsfleet area. Ethelwerd compared Wippedsfleet to the Thesean sea & Aegean sea, which it seems to me might support our impression that Bassas/Episford/Wippedesfleet was the Wantsum-Stour river-strait.
 The Wantsum-Stour river there is a good candidate match for the "shallow" meaning of Bassas. In Roman times Thanet was an island separated by a small strait where the modern Wantsum-Stour is. So in the times of Arthur or Nennius the Wantsum-Stour area could have been a shallow river-strait abit like Lindisfarne island. The 'swelling ford/shallows' in the Wonders of Britain might also match Bassas "shallow" and the Wantsum-Stour (though another possibility might be the Medway). Compare other similar place-names like Basford, Bassenthwaite, Bassingbourne, Baslow?

5. The possible Bass/bathais "forehead" meaning of Bassas could link with that the name Reculver/Regulbium is said to mean "at the promontory or great headland" and the SS fort "entrance faced north" and was "on north side, facing the eponymous promontory".

(Bassas being plural might possibly imply a match with more than one of the above?)

Jackson on one hand suggested that the name is British/Welsh, but on other hand he seems to suggest that the name was "Saxon"? If the name was Saxon then this would also agree with our placement in the Saxon Shore. Kent is between and/or next door to Essex/Middlesex and Sussex. Whether the name is Saxon or not, Arthur is stated to have fought Saxons, and at the estimated time of Arthur's battles (between Octa and Ida in the HB) the Saxons were mainly only in the South and East half of England/Britain (refs ASC, Sayles, Evans, Brynjulfson, etc).

There are also some other possible supporting confirmations in Arthurian traditional sources:

"Bensington" of the 571 entry of the ASC possibly matches or else may be analogous to our Bassas and Reculver. Three or more of the five sites of this ASC entry seem similar to names of Arthur's battle sites (Bensington, Ignesham/Egonesham, Liganburh), and this and other reasons suggest that the sites might be in Kent and not in "Bedford/Buckingham". The 3 battle sites in the HB are close to each other, and our 3 matching sites in Kent are close to each other, and the 3 sites are close to each other in the ASC entry and their names are similar, so it is quite possible that the ASC sites are our battle sites in Kent.

Boso of Richiden/Ridoc/Rico/"Oxford" in the HRB and 'Caer Bosso' "Bosso's city" / Rhydycheu / 'Caer Vembyr' in the 24 kings & 33 cities manuscript seems to confirm that Bassa(s) is close to Reculver or Rutupi/Richborough? [Not sure if Boso could also connect with Boroware of Kent?] The word rhyd/rith = "ford". "Ox-ford" certainly could well match the Wantsum-Stour (possibly compare Bosphorus "ox ford"?) An alleged interpolation in Asser mentions that tradition asserted that Germanus and Gildas and Nennius and Kentigern and Melkinus were at "Oxford".  Caer Bosso is "on banks of the Thames", and it is identified with Vembyr/Membyr/Mynyr which might link with Minnis Bay nearby Reculver?

"Bassalig / campus Aelecti" in Monmouthshire may also analogously/traditionally confirm that Bassas (Reculver) was near to the city of the legion (Richborough/Rutupi) which latter seems to be the original campus Aelecti.
The fields of Gai Campi, Campus Lapideus ("Richborough?"), Campus Aelecti, Campus Heli, Maisbeli, Maisuriam, Maes Garmon seemingly might all match the same place of the city of the legion Richborough.
The names of Campus Aelecti (Bassalig), Allectus (vs Carausius, 3 legions, "York", "at London"), Helig (Wonders), Vultures of Ely (Pa Gur), Beli/Heli/Belin (founder of city of the legion), Campus Heli (metropolis of Padarn), Mt Eli (Cruachan Aichle), Eliseg, sons of Eliffer, sons of Liethali, Elmete seemingly might all be linked with the city of the legion and Richborough.

The "2 streams Rheidiol and Paith" in the Saints Lives might be analogous with our two neighbour sites Rutupi/Richborough (City of the Legion) and Bassas (Regulbium/Reculver) in the Wantsum-Stour area? Paith is vaguely similar to Bassas and/or bass/bathais "forehead", and/or to the "head of Paiach" in the Pa Gur, which recalls the "headland" meaning of Reculver's name.

We can also support our match by analogous sites elsewhere.

 'The Bass' / 'Bass Rock in' Berwickshire / Firth of Forth is in an analogous position to Reculver in Kent. (There is also a Black Rock near Reculver.)

Eglwysseu Bassa "churches of Bassa" &/or (the church of) Baschurch seemingly may link with both Bassas, and with the monastery-church (and/or Bass the priest) of Reculver. ("Arthur resting at Baschurch" is also coincidentally similar to that the mysterious body of the Levitating Altar in the Wonders of Britain has been suggested by some to possibly be Arthur, and we found that the levitating altar seems to match the Reculver Cross at our Bassas site. Perhaps compare Arthur resting in Hall on the isle of Afallach, which is linked with Afarnach's Hall (4th/3rd) of the Pa Gur which corresponds to Bassas (3rd) and the monastery-church or basilica of Reculver/Regulbium (4th/3rd). Avalon was "in the North Sea" in Irish.)

Supplementary list of the main hitherto Bassas location candidates:
Lusas in Hampshire (some think, OEC)
"A possible south country site" (Collingwood)
Reculver/Regulbium/Baetasiorum (us)
Bassianus/Caracalla (Ardrey, us)
Abissum
Bensington "Bedford/Buckingham"
Bassingham at the middle of the river Witham (Brynjulfson)
Bassington on the river Aln in Northumberland (Hunt)
Bass Rock in Firth of Forth near North Berwick (OEC, Wiki)
Dunipace Scotland (Skene, McHardy, Howells)
Carpow, Perth (Ardrey)
Bassenthwaite (Anscombe)
Baxenden, Lancs (Anscombe)
'Eglwysseu Bassa' / Baschurch, Shropshire (Jackson, Dav White)
Bassalig / campus Aelecti in Monmouthshire (our analogy)
Nothing to offer / Did not speculate / Unidentified / Puzzle / Nor has anyone else adequately identified / Conjectural or unknown / Very problematic (Faral, Lot, Johnstone, Collingwood, Crawford, Brynjulfson, Jackson, Hunt, Dav White).



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 06-Jun-2018 at 09:00

Continuing new attempt to rewrite better the 9 battle sites matches evidences. (Mainly just focusing on the names/meanings matches for now since these are the things critics are so narrowly set on.)

2nd battle site Dubglas (Othona/Bradwell).

1st post deals with the Dubglas name/meaning match. 2nd post will deal with the extra Linnuis name/meaning match.

1. The Dubglas name/meaning match with our site:

The name of the 2nd battle site of Arthur in the HB is (the river) 'Dubglas'. Dubglas or Dubglaisi/Duglas/Doglas is related to the names Douglas, Dulais and Dulas and it is generally considered to be from either *duboglassio/*dubgleis "(from the) black/dark stream/water", and/or "*duboglasso- "dark blue, blue black", or dubhglas "blackness", or duoglas, with the individual component elements being dubh/du "black, dark" (like in Dublin "black pool", etc), and glas "woad, green, blue, grey, tawny, green greyish, pale, fresh" (like in Darian Las "blue/green shield", Cruc Glas, Cuneglas, Glastonbury, etc), or glas/glass "(a small) stream", or glas "a common river designation among the Celtic people in Great Britain". (In the case of Glastonbury glas also seems to be confounded/conflated with glass.) It is thought that there is a subtly implied contrast between the 1st and 2nd battle sites Glein "clean/clear" and Dubglas "black/dark".

Our location candidate for the battle site Dubglas (2nd of set of 9 sites) is the Saxon Shore site of Othona/Bradwell near Maldon (2nd in set of 9 sites). In our site's area there is one or more possible good matches for the meaning and maybe the name of Dubglas:

- The river Blackwater is in the area of our site.
In the HB, the Dubglas battle site is described as being "super (aliud) flumen ... Dubglas", or "above / on(-the-brink-of) / east-of river Dubglas".
In Bede and other sources our site Othona is described as "civitas Stancaster (Ithancester) stetit super ripam rivoir de Pante currentis per Maldunum", "locus est sed (etiam) in ripa Pent(a)e amnis", "on the shore/bank(s) of the Pant(e)", "Othona, on the Blackwater, formerly called the Pant".

- In Ptolemy and the Ravenna Cosmography the river Eiduman(n)ia/Eid(o)umani(o)s/Viuidin/Uidumanis/(S)idumani(s) is south-west of (a promontory south of) the Yare &/or Orford Ness, and north-east of the Thames, and it is said that this river Eidumania is either the Blackwater &/or Colne, or the Crouch &/or Roach, or the Stour &/or Orwell. Quite a few experts favour the Blackwater river. The name Eidumania has been suggested by some scholars to contain the element du/dubh "black" or dubno/domun/dufn/dwfn "deep". In the Coligny calendar dumannios is "darkest depths". Dubglas is a flumen "river", like the Eidumanis is a fluvium/fluvii "river".

- Some scholars have said that the name Eidumania is "possibly Latinisation of Widma/Withma/Witham/Withmaney" (eg Ekwall). There is no river Witham in Essex/Suffolk only in Lincoln which can not be Eidumania. There is a town Witham in our river's area. The interesting thing is that the Eidumania (and Witham) in our area may be analogously connected with the "unhealthy looking sluggish, greenish river" Witham in Lincolnshire "peat land" which is the orthodox candidate for the river Dubglas. The  two areas seem to even be compared in modern times eg "Lincolnshire and Essex RBs: River Witham and River Crouch IS" in M.A.F. records? (It is also a remarkable coincidence that there is also a Wyham/Wigan/Wygan at Higden's "Dubglas" site in Lancashire.)

- The Thames river's name is also claimed by some scholars to mean "dark river". (Perhaps compare the Arthurian "region ... between the Tamar & Limar" with the "Thames and Imensa" in our site's area, since Linnuis is also Inniis in some versions?)

- Stakes/pikes in Thames, & "Dolobellus", &/or "Mandubracius" of the Trinovantes, in Caesar's invasion?
- Dubnovellaunus of the Trinovantes, 10-5 bc? (Dubnovellaunus is said to possibly be Dyfnwal Moelmut of post-Roman and medieval British genealogies and legends. Dyfnwal built Caer Odor which possibly resembles Othona? In the HRB Dunwallo is in the 2nd book and he is the 20th king, which resembles Dubglas as the 2nd battle site? His name is related to Donald and Domhnall which is said to mean "world ruler", from dubno "world" and val "rule". One source says vras and glas were possibly confounded/conflated/punned, and the word gawr/vawr/mawr possibly could confirm a v/w/g interchange?)
- Togodumnus of Catuvellauni died after battle on Thames, & losses in marshes of Essex, in Claudius invasion?

- Dub-glas cold possibly be a pun on Divus Claudius of Colchester? (Note Dubglas would correspond to Claudius in the 9 Emperors list in the HB of Nennius.)
- Duroliw in the Peutinger map? (Durolito/Durolitum in Antonine Itinerary.)
- Othona is next to Dubris in the Notita Dignitatum.

- Othona/Ythancester is described as "the town is now submerged" which could possibly match dubno "deep"?

- There is a Dengie/Dengey/Daneseia/Daenningas in our site's area which might possibly be analogously connected with Denis's-brook/Denises-burn(e) & Devilis/Dubglas 633 in Bede which seemingly may correspond with the  Duglas of treaty of Cadwallon & Edwin in the HRB? Perhaps compare Dunglas of Lothian? Dubglas is related to Dawlish, Dowlish, Divelish and Devil's Brook. L and N sometimes interchange in British Celtic. Though it is admittedly doubtful that Dengie could be a corruption of Dubglas because Dengie appears in early records as Danesia/Daenningas and is supposed to be named from the Danes in the Maldon area. Pun of Dub-glas & Dane-geld/Dane-law? Arthurian sometimes confounds Danes and Dacians. Linnuis might be connected with Lochlyn which is supposedly "Denmark" or "Sweden" or "Scandinavia" or "Baltic" and is maybe analogous to the Thames mouth/estuary?
The Dengie Marshes and/or the "numerous lakes, ponds, boggy areas, willow swamp" of the Mid-Essex Coast might correspond with Dubglas "dark, muddy", and with the analogous "marshy lands and pools of the river Witham" orthodox Dubglas site in Lincoln?

We can also support of location by correspondences with analogous namesakes elsewhere. Douglas in the Isle of Man, and the Blackwater in Ireland are also in analogous/similar s.w. coast positions of the islands. (Dublin is maybe also analogous?) The orthodox "Dubglas" candidate in Lincoln is analogous in similarily being in [north-]east coast. Collingwood's candidate 'Le Black' (Kent Water) in the Medway/Dartford/Crayford area of Kent is also analogously in the east coast, and on other side of the Thames estuary opposite our site. "Dunglas formed the southern border of Lothian" might also be analogous to our site in the south, since Lu(n)danbyrig was a name of Othona, and it is also not far from London (compare "Lo(n)donesia" of Lot in Arthurian).

So thus far at the least we have good matches for the number/order "2nd" of set of 9 sites (which all match all in order), the river, the "black" meaning of the name, and the name element dubh. Critics can of course say that we do not necessarily yet also have an indisputable  match for the name element glas (except for the meaning) or for the whole/full name Dubglas (except the meaning), but they can't deny that our site does have some quality and quantity matches for the Dubglas name/meaning.

For the rival orthodox location in Lincoln it is seen that they admit that their location does not have any known Dubglas river name match at all. The only major rivers of Lincoln/Lindsey are the Witham/Lindis/Rhee "whose ancient name is unknown", and the Trent/Trivona. The best they can do is say that the "unhealthy looking sluggish, greenish river" Witham may match the "blue black" or "black stream" meaning of Dubglas. (Though there is also a 'Black (Low?)' place name in the area. There was also a Blaecca at "Lincoln" when Paulinus was there.) Their site is also not 2nd in a set of 9 sites that all match in order. It is also less likely that Arthur was fighting Saxons "before Ida" up Lincoln way. Lindsey/Lincoln is not mentioned in the ASC until after 627/654/678. The only thing their location has over ours is an allegedly stronger Linnuis name match, otherwise our site (& other 8 sites) has more quality and quantity matches.

If by any chance we are possibly wrong about Dubglas matching Othona/Bradwell then it is nevertheless still pretty sure from most sources that Arthur's battle(s) must have been in the south-east quarter of England/Britain, especially the Kent and/or London/Essex areas. The only major candidates for Dubglas/Linnuis in the ASC are Crecganford/London 457, or Mercredsburn(sted) 485. If Vortimer's 4 battles match any of Arthur's 12 battles then the only likely match for Dubglas is Derwent, or "Thanet". (Derwent "white water" is opposite to Dubglas "black water"? "Thanet" is similar to Thancastre and Ythancester?) Other candidates for Dubglas/Linnuis in the south-east quarter include the "dark river" Thames, Darent/Crayford, Dubissum pagus "? in Kent" (recent epigraphical discovery), Le Black (Kent Water in Medway area), the Medway which some suggest might mean "mead-coloured Wye", Duroleuo/Durolaui/Durolevum (Ospringe/Sittingbourne, in Peutinger map, Antonine Itinerary, Ravenna Cosmography).

The 9th battle of Badon of Arthur of the HB of Nennius was at Adurni/Portchester (or Clausentum/Bitterne) near Southampton. But the battle of Badon of some other sources may be the 5th/8th battle of Guinnion of the HB which was at Dover. Someone on facebook disputes that Badon could connected with Braddon at Dover. So we have been collating evidences to more starkly prove our match theory.

Before we give the Badon evidence(s) first we will just post a bit on the linguistics of Guinnion, since these people keep lyingly claiming that our 9 battle sites matches supposedly have been disproven by them linguistically etc.

The proposed etymologies for the name (Castellum/*dunon/lesc/fort(let)) Guinnion/Guynon/Guindoin/Gurnion/*Alborum have included from:
*Alborum;
guin(n)/gwyn(n)/gwen/finn "white, fair, blond, bright, brilliant, pure, blessed(ness), holy, sacred";
vind-o "clear/white";
ion/iog/guic "standard place name ending";
"white fort";
*vindiones "(the) white(ned) people/ones";
bin/*vino- "wine/vine"?
venta "place"/"a plain".

Anyone can see that the Alborum and the "white" only-best match Dover (Albion). We have further shown in our 12 battles ebook and in this thread (above) that the names/places of Guinnion & Dover are connected with each other in a number of sources.

Now the Badon & Dover/Guinnion piece: Evidences for Badon matching Dover [Guinnion] include:

- Scholars compare Badon of the AC with Guinnion of the HB. Guinnion certainly matches Dover/Dubris (see our separate chapter on this battle site). (The 9 emperors list confirms?)
"the Welsh in Tysilio place it [Badon] near Winchester..."? Guintonhi/"Winchester" may match Guinnion & Dover.
- Badon was a "siege" in Gildas & HRB. This may link with "fort(let)" Guinnion?
[Arthur's Seat in Edinburgh may be analogous to Dover/Guinnion, though the name is said to have originally been Ard-na-Said?]

- Badon is associated with Dubricius of Legions in the HRB, and Dubricius surely matches either Dubris/Dover or Durovernum/Canterbury or Durobrivae/Rochester, while the city of the Legion was Richborough/Rutupiae.

- The name Badon(i(cu)s) and it being a "mount/hill" matches Braddon at Dover, quote the "lost village of Braddon within Drop Redoubt on Dover Western Heights", "the ancient name of Braddon", "I would suspect that Bradden would more likely be on the highest point of the hill", though someone claims that they can't be connected (but in my opinion this is only orthodox scholarly theory and is not definite).
[Badon is Bladud/Baldud in the HRB. Ysbaddaden of Culhwch & Olwen is surely Badon? If "Badon/Avon" &/or Avalon has a link with  Abaddon/Apollyon then this may possibly support the correspondence? Tradition links Badon with Bardon of Leicester. The original Dum-barton "fortress of the Britons / Britain" was Dover/Guinnion. Santa Maria de Bretona has similarities with Dover & Guinnion. Badarn in 13 Treasures? Bath is pronounced "Barth"? Baden "baths" in Germany?]
("Mount/hill" matches that at Dover are all of these : cliffs, (North) Downs, (W & E) Heights, (Edinburgh) Hill.)

- The name "Bath-hill" maybe matches that there was a "Bath House Area" at Dubris/Dover in archaeological maps?

- The alternative version of the name of Badon of Baddesdown-hill in EH of Bede (and Bannesdown/Lansdown of Camden, and Baanesdown of Wynn) might link with North Downs?
(Not sure if Camden's Lansdown could link with Langdon Bay at Dover? Also not sure if Badon/Baanesdown could link with Bran who has links with Dover? The battle of Bran vs Math of Hanes Taliesin?)

- Some sources imply that Arthur drove the Saxons out of England/Britain at the battle of Badon or Guinnion or Clarence. This fits a (Saxon) Shore location, and fits Dover as the one major entrance/exit point of Britain as the closet shortest crossing point for travelers between Britain and mainland Europe.

- The Modena Archivolt surely must depict either Badon and/or Guinnion. The "tower" or "castle" in the Archivolt picture looks alot like Dover lighthouse and maybe matches the castellum/fort(let) of Guinnion, while the name Winlogee/Guinevere in the Archivolt matches Guinnion (and white Dover). Scholars compare Badon of the AC with Guinnion of the HB.

- Arthur fought the "Saxons" (HB, HRB) & "Kentishmen" (HB, Collingwood). The Saxons were mainly only in the South-East quarter at the estimated date of Badon (refs Sayles, Brynjulfson, Evans, Jackson, etc) [the area that Charles tried to make me out as being bad for believing that the battles were there and not elsewhere].

- If Badon/Baldud/Bladud possibly has a link with name Balduph and the word "bald" then this may also match Dover. (Mynydd Eidyn of Pa Gur matches Guinnion and Dover. The word "Mynydd" can mean bald head.)

- Badon/Bath is close to "Albania" & "AltClut" in the HRB. "Albania" is really the Downs & Dover/Albion.
* (Caer) Alt Clut means ail "(a) rock", or "a height/cliff", or "white", or "a house site", or "fort", + "river Clyde", or "Caledon".
Albani(a) matches *Alborum (Guinnion) can only be either Albion (Dover), or St Alban's (Verulam), or Alba/Alban/Albani(a)/Albany/Alpin(e) (Scotland).
Arthur wore Dragon at Badon. Compare Gwen Pendragon?

- There is seeming evidence that St Martin le Grand of Dover is connected with Arthur's battle(s) (esp Guinnion / Badon).

 -----

I just want to add that these people who keep lying that our sites don't match linguistically etc constantly evade/ignore/dismiss stark evidences/proofs that we have posted. For example the 'Cruc Mawr' of the Wonders of Britain surely only-best matches the "large cruciform platform" or quadrfrons at Richborough/Rutupi [the city of the legion]. They may try to claim that cruc can't mean cross but can only mean tumulus, but the evidences are stark that cruc mawr matches the large cross at Richborough, and sources do imply confirmation that cruc(is) can mean cross.
Cruc/crug/crocea mawr/more/mors can mean either:
"great/big hill(ock)/heap/tumulus/mound"
"great/big/huge cross/crux/crucis/crucifix/crutch"
"great crooked"
or "yellow death" (according to the HRB of Geoff of Monmouth)
and it certainly matches
the "large cruciform platform" quadrifrons at Richborough/Rutupi [city of the legion]
and matches Crocea Mors "Caesar's sword" (Caesar was near Dover/Deal/Richborough).
Though some tried to dismiss it by saying a variant version has Cruc Marc instead, which we haven't yet completely answered, but this is only one alternative tradition and is a very weak counter claim. We have also showed that all 9 of Arthur's battle sites match the Saxon Shore sites, and other Wonders of Britain also match the sites. To me we have stark evidences but they keep evading it for some covert reason.


Edited by Arthur-Robin - 27-Sep-2017 at 07:47

8th battle / 5th battle-site castellum/fortlet Guinnion of "(King) Arthur" in the Historia Britonum of Nennius is Dover/Dubris the 6th Saxon Shore fort of the Notita Dignitatum. (5th & 6th battle sites cross switched between different sources. The matching site in the Pa Gur is the 6th one mynydd/mount Eidyn.)
This following is a list of many possible versions of Guinnion/Dover in many Arthurian sources. It confirms that Dover = Guinnion because we can see stark details evidences that some of them certainly must be or only-best match Dover. (List is most of the ones we have come across but not all, there are still some more not yet included.) Please note it is possible that some may be wrong, but they aren't all wrong. Please also note that ones in different places are only later analogous mirror memory namesakes of the earlier original battle site in Kent. Though some sources places are wrongly considered to be in other places but they are wrong opinions (eg the Wonders are not in Wales etc but really in the Saxon Shore), and these are indicated by double quote marks / speech marks.
Note that some scholars correspond Badon of the AC with Guinnion of the HB.
(Format: the source's name then the candidate Guinnion/Dover matches from in the source.)

Before giving the list of Dover/Guinnion candidates it is necessary to remind people that the core discovery was that 8 of the 9 battle sites of Arthur in the HB of Nennius match 8 of the 9 Saxon Shore forts of the ND for certain because the names/meanings and details/geographies and numbers/order match. Further more the Wonders of Britain also seem to match the same sites or area as well, confirming the match. The 9 battles of the Pa Gur also seem to match the 9 HB & 9 SS/ND sites too. Some other sets/groups/lists of entities in this list below also seem to maybe match too:

1/2/3/4 martyrs Diocletian persecution (DEB/HRB)
3 prisons Gwen Pendragon; 3 Guineveres.
3 several battles (HRB)
3 frivilous battles (Triads)
3 renowned cities
3 churches Padarn; 3 solemnities Padarn
3 vultures of Ely?
3/4 cities 577 (ASC)
4 battles Vortimer?
4/5 cities 571 (ASC)
[6/10/11] Modena Archivolt?
7 (5 & 2) saints lives that mention Arthur?
"7"/9 battles of Arthur (PaGur)
7 servants of the Porter
7/9 saints/sites Breton/Brittany
8 Labours of Turein/Turenn
9 (3 x 3) battle sites / 12 (3 x 4) battles of Arthur (HB/Nennius)
9 Saxon Shore forts (ND)
7/9 Emperors (HB)
9 porters/watchdogs of Ysbaddaden Bencawr;
9 raised from dead by St Patrick
[9/12/14] battles sites of Gwallawg (Taliesin)
9 men of Luthor/Liber son of Art.
10 Glywys (Sts Lives)
11 Consuls (HRB)
12 Monasteries
12 Saxon Shore forts Skegness to Carisbrooke (Map)
12 sons Cunedda; 24 sons Llywarch Hen
12 hides of land Arviragus
Group of 12 poems?
12/20 Men of the North [12th Elidyr Mwynfawr]
13 Wonders of Britain (Nennius)
13 Treasures?
"13/14 battles" Arthur including Camlan (& Arthuret) (Adam Ardrey)
15/[12/24?] children of Brychan.
24 kings / 33 cities?

Now for the Dover/Guinnion matches candidates list:

Actual modern/historical site: Dover (at this site there are also all these places/names: Dour, St Mary the Virgin, St Mary in Castro ("may date as early as 600 ad"), St Martin le Grand, Braddon/Bredenstone, Drop Redoubt, Edinburgh Hill, Colton, Albion, W & E Heights, North Downs, Harold's Earthwork, Langdon Bay, near-by to the Weald, and it is not-far-from a Snowdown). [Dover from Dour "water", or possibly deur "brave"? and possibly conneced with 'de ira' "from the wrath"?]

Pa Halgan / Kentish Royal Legend / Life of Mildred:
Martinus, Doferum. (Eafe?)

Notita Dignitatum, 9 Saxon Shore forts: portus Dubris/Dover (milites Tungrecani, 2nd/6th of 9).

Peutinger: Dubris.

Arthur's battles, Historia Britonum/Nennius:
castellum/fort(let) Guinnion/Gurnion/Guindoin/*Alborum "white, sacred, pure, blessed" (5th/8th of 9/12). "Arthur was fighting Kentishmen" (Collingwood).

HB/Nennius: Columcille "dove"? Bridget? Guitolinus vs Ambrosius, Cat-Gwaloph? Gwarth Ennian (Germanus)? Guenedota/Cunedda? Manau Gustodin? Deur/Deira? DynGuoaroy/Guyaroi / DynguaythGuarth 547? Caesar vs Dolobellus?

HB 33 cities: Cairguent? Cairdauri/Cairdaun? Cair-guin-truis? Cairmerdin? Caircusteint? Cairguorthegern? Cairceint?

HB 9 Emperors: Constantine (5th)?

13 Wonders of Britain / Nennius: Sealess Shore? DuoRig Habren? Glen Ailbe? Wind Hole/Cave in "Gwent"? Cabal's Cairn? Brebic's stone (in a) cataract? Mauchline's quern? Undersea birds? Circling Rock/Mountain? [Pictish Palace?]

Irish: "Irish records preserve the notion that the Battle of Guindoin was within the Caledonian Forest".

Irish Annals: Finnabair 527/535?

Pa Gur: Mynydd Eidyn (cynbyn, 6th of 9, mynydd = "bald head"). [Cf eidunet "desire"?]
"What man is the Porter" may link with the Saxon Shore forts.

Y Gododdin/Aneirin: (drinking at) Din Eidyn / Cattraeth/Raith 538/596/598/600/638 (traeth can mean "extremity of a district")?
Gwyn Dragon [may be (Gwen) Pendragon?]
Gwenabwy son of Gwen (12th)? Bradwen? Gwenwawd?

DEB/Gildas: obsessio/siege of mons Badon(icus)/Bath-hill?

Tysilio: Badon near "Winchester"?

2/3/4 Martyrs 283/304 (DEB/HRB) : St Alban('s)/Verulam/Uerolamiensem? Amphibalus of "Winchester"?

Annales Cambriae/Welsh Annals: Brigit 454/521? Badon 516? Columba "dove" 521/562/595? "Camlan" plague 537? Maelgwn 547? Arthuret/Gwendoleu 573? Dyfrig/Dubricius & Kentigern 612?

Welsh Triads: castell Gwerthrynyawn? Celliwig? Arthuret (2nd of 3)?
Gwenddoleu?

Anglo-Saxon Chronicle candidates include : Martin 444? Andredescester? no gains gap 519-552? Wight/Wihtgar/Wihtgaras-burh 514/530/534/544? Cerdic dies 534? calends of Martii 538? St Martin's Hwiterne "white house" 560? Wibbandune 568? Egonesham/Ignesham 571? Dyrham 577? Wodensbeorg 592? St Mary, Kent 694?
[Note: Wight may be from either "white" or vectis "lever" or gwaith "work, time, division", all of which fit Dover/Downs as well as the Isle of Wight / Solent.]

Ethelwerd: lofty tower founded on honour of Mary in "Winchester" 908 (analogous)? Brunandune 938 (analogous name & date)? sign of cross in heavens 773 (analogous event)?

583/584/586 (source?) : CairGuiragon/Wigracester/"Chester" / "white town / town of white stone in green woodland"?

Gwallawg's battles, Taliesin: Arddunion "fortress height" (6th)? (Eidyn?) (Gwensteri? Bretrewyn?)

Urien's battles, Taliesin [575] : Ulph? "ford" of Alclud? Affair at head of wood? Brewyn? Gwenystrad?

Taliesin: Dubriactus? castle of Maria? Badon "chief giver of feasts"?

Hanes Taliesin: White Hill? Ceridwen? battle of Bran vs Math?

Dialogue of Gwydno & Gwyn &/or Iolo Manuscript &/or Hanes Taliesin :
fortress/Caer Wyddno (sunken, protected from sea by floodgates, in Gwaelod) of Gwyddno Garanhir 520-580?

Modena Archivolt: the "tower/castle" [looks like Dover lighthouse] & Winlogee/Guinevere (middle)? Burmaltus? Mardoc? Galvariun?

7 servants of the porter: Gwrdnei cats eyes (5th of 7)?

15 children of Brychan: St Wenn/Wenna (7th)? Dyfrig? Iona "dove"? Morewenna/Morwenstow? Merewenne? Berwyn?

Saints Lives: Do(c)guinnus / Llanddyfrwyr? Guinnius?
St Guenole? Guedian? Guenhael?

3 churches of Padarn: last / great? or middle / again's cross?
3 solemnities of Padarn: calends of May?

Glywys (Saints Lives) : Gwrhai/Gurai/Gurinid (6th of 10)? or Gwynlliw/Gwynllyw (1st)?

Malory: great white palace of white marble at Camelot at "Winchester"?
 Holy Grail 454?

HRB/Geoffrey of Monmouth: St Dubricius / Bath-hill/Badon/Solsbury 470. Gwenwisa/Genuissa? Guiderius? Albani/AltClut/"Dumbarton"? Albanact? Carmarthen/Merlin? Tintagel Castle? Guendoloena? Helena / Michael's Mount? "3 several battles"? Dorobellum? Estrildis white skin?
"Jupiter, Mercury, and Diana" of Brutus may link with the Trinity of Arthur of Guinnion/Badon?

HRB/Prophecy of Merlin: earth shall swallow Guintonhi/Winchester.

HRB 11 Consuls: Cursalem/Kaicester (6th of 11)?

Breton (analogy) : St Anne (mother of Mary)? [Queen Darerca?]
Gwenedeg/Vannes (one of the 7/9 saints/sites)? Samson of Dol? Tudwal?
St Mary of Lanleff / castellum Audroeni / Guingampum.
French/Gallic (Stephen de Bourbon) (analogy) : St Guinefort (cynocephali)?
Arthur's Hill? Mont St Michel?
St Albinus of Angers [near Mt Dol/Deols] 550?
Huelgoat (analogy): Castle of Morgane? Arthur's Castle?

Galicia (analogy): Santa Maria de Bretona ca 569. Tower of Hercules?

Tristan (& Yseut) : Essyllt Winwen? castle Dore? [castle of Windsor? castle of Snowdon?] "Stirling"?

12 Monasteries: Glasgwin (6th of 12)?

Descent of Men of the (Old) North: Gwendoleu (6th of 12/20)? Dyfynwal?

Liber Floridus/St Omer: "Pictish Palace"?

Welsh/Shakespeare: great victory of Arthur against Saxons on St David's (birth)day 540 or 640? [field of Leeks 633/640?]

Welsh (analogy) : Mari Lwyd. castell Cragwynion (Cardiganshire)? Cae(au) Gwynion (Rador/Flint / Denbighshire/Montgomeryshire/Glamorganshire); Carreg/Cerrig Gwynion (Denbigh / Carnarfonshire/Merionethshire); Tyddin Gwynion (Merioneth); Gwynion (near Mallwyd, 1603). White Castle near Abergavenny. Dubricus of Aber-gavenny? Clogwyn Du'r Arddu "high/height" / Berwyn / Snowdon "snow hill". Aberystwyth Castle?

Stories of the Grail: the White Castle in the White Town? Grail Castle (454)?

Scottish (analogy) : Arthur's Seat / Ard-na-Said "height of the arrows", Edinburgh?
Dumbarton "fortress of Britain/Britons" / AltClut?
Athelstaneford 836 (analogous cross & date)?
Drum Alban / Dorsum Albion?
Culdee/Fife (analogy) : St Mary on the Rock.
Skye (analogy) : Castle Ewen?

Cornish/Devonian (analogy) : St Michael's Mount ("the grey/hoar rock in the woodland", "a shrine dedicated to the virgin Mary")? Tintagel Castle (analogous)? Caer Guidn, Land's End?
St Gwinnodock? St Gwinear? St Winwaloe? St Materiana/Madryn of Gwent?

Scilly/Lyonesse (analogy) : Hoary Rock in the Wood? St Martin's (Scilly)? The Mount? St Mary's?

3 renowned cities / Beroul: castle of Isneldone/Snowdon "snow hill"?

William of Worcester: castle of "Stirling" [Snowdon]?

Ywenec: "Caerwent"? ("Doglas"?)

Vulgate cycle: "fortress on a lofty Saxon Rock in region of [fine hunting grounds of] Arestal nearby narrows of Godalente"?

source: Galafort (sign of cross) and Celidoine.

source: "2nd battle King Arthur smashes the Saxons at Clarence / great victory drives saxons out of England".

'24 kings & 33 cities', &/or HRB : Darian Las? Aeneas Yswwydwyn "White Shield"? Marsia/Martia & caer Baris "Dorchester" "by the sea"? Castell y Morwynion / mynydd Tristydd? Gwenwisa/Genuissa daughter of Caesar/Claudius? "Jerusalem"? Dyvan & Fagan? Badon/Avon?

8 labours of Turein/Turenn: two steeds Dobar (Sigar/"Sicily", 4th of 8)?

"Richard of Cirencester": St Patrick & Brigit at Dunum/Down?
Clodius Albinus?

Bran/Brennus story : Y-Bryn-Gwyn / Gwyn-fryn "white hill/tower" supposedly the "Tower of London" but "facing France"?

source: Lofty wood clad rock dinas Emrys / vast insulated rock dinas Emrys?
=
Vortigern's tower / citadel / fortified city at Mt Erir / Heremus Mtns "eagle rocks" [in Snowdonia] in Guenet/Guined (HB, HRB)?
&/or
Cair Guorthe(r)girn/Guorthirgin of Guunessi / castell Gwerthrynyawn / castle of Gurthrenion, beside the Wye, or on the Towy in Dimetae, or in Gueneri/Genoreu in Mt Cloarius on the Gania in Hergin (HB, Triads, HRB)? [or Guasmoric?]

Gervase of Tilbury: Arthur buried at "Mt Etna".
[Avalon located in "Sicily".]
[Morgana le Faye related to "Mt Etna" &/or "Strait of Messina".]

Culhwch & Olwen: Olwen "white thorn"? Arthur vs giant Ysbaddaden?
C&O boar hunt: Whitland? Gwendraeth? Dyffryn "valley"? gwelle(i)u?

13 Treasures: Clydno Eidyn (5th)? Dyrnwyn/white (1st)? Badarn (9th)? Gwenddolau (12th)?

Boece: "Dunbar" (fort)?

Landavensis: St Dubricius. 'Guentonia urbs' / 'urbs Guenti' / "Caerwent"?

Ninnian sources: son Wyn? the Book of Hours of the Virgin? St Martin church at Hwiterne "white house" ("Galloway")? the ("small") stone (or "wooden") church "sitiuated on the shore"? Whithorn Crozier?

Harleian: Teudubric (Glywysing)? Dubr Duiu / Tebi?

Winchester Round Table: "Winchester"?

Some suppose: Arthur sleeps under Craig Y Dinas (Dyffryn Ardudwy / Ystradfellte) where Blodeuwedd was buried?

Legend: Albion 44 yrs?

EH/Bede: Albinus 709? Baddesdown-hill/Badon/Bath-hill? Halleluyah victory (Germanus)?

Camden’s Bannesdown/Lansdown.
[Baddesdown/Bannesdown/Lansdown can match either/both of Portsdown Hill/South Downs/Langstone at 9th battle site Portchester/Adurni/Badon (1), and/or Braddon/North Downs/Langdon/Bran at 5th/6th battlesite Dover/Guinnion/Badon (2).]

Wynn's Baanesdown.

Polyolbion/Drayton: Albion/Ialebion was [from Alban] the first christian martyr in Britain?

Blyton: Gawain(e) died/buried at Dover.

Brynjulfson: "southern one-quarter of the island".
between northeast (Celidon) & southwest (Badon).
in an area the Saxons had reached by 516.
was fought against Saxons. southern part of the island.

Charles P. : Arthur's battles were "in Kent and the East Midlands, perhaps as far north as Lincolnshire".

GYAM: West Saxons ranged from Great Yarmouth to Portsmouth.

Sayles: West Saxons ranged from Wash to Solent.

[Prof Fields reviewer : Arthur's battles "were up & down the East coast".]

-----

Appended list of acknowledgements/credits/sources/references for this article:

Damien/Damo Bullen (damowords blog & Arthurnet posts);
Graham/Graeme Aspin (correspondence, & his theelf29 website);
Caleb Howells / "Calebxy" (on Historum, and in facebook Arthur group)
Chris(topher) Gwinn's website & Arthurnet posts.
Wikipedia
Gutenberg.org
GYAM
Brynjulfson
WG Collingwood
Mary Jones website resources
Arthurnet posters
Historum posters
Charles Evans-Gunther (on Arthurnet, and in facebook K Arthur group)
Zoetropo (Historum posts)
Leon Mintz's paper (via Arthurnet)
Peter Graham (Historum discussions even though they were unfairly antagonistic)
Simon Stirling
JC Cooper / Brewer's
Karen Han
Judy Shoaf
Charles P... (historum post).
Jacqueta Hawkes
Andy Evans (Wonders of Britain website articles, & correspondence).
Dan/August Hunt 'from Glein to Camlan'.
Edwin Hustwit (correspondence via academia.edu).
Arthurian Infopedia.
New Popular Edition Maps (npemap.org.uk)
Google Earth maps.
Cambro-Briton
Me.
[Wilson & Blackett?]
[Baigent/Lincoln/Leigh 'Messianic Legacy'.]
[Hancock forum Druids thread/topic.]



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 20-Sep-2017 at 02:38

Here is 2nd rough draft of new theory that date of Badon is encoded in the HB (of "Nennius").

Gildas possibly seems to imply that Ambrosius was the leader at Badon; the HB seems to imply that Badon was time of Ambrosius? (Bede possibly implies a link of Badon with the Halleluyah victory of Germanus?)

The HB possibly seems to subtly imply that Badon was sometime between 348/365/373/400/405/409/421/428/438/444/447 to 542/547 [or 574?]
Traditional sources dates for Arthur include 421, 454 (Malory), 470 (some scholars opinion from the number of slain in HRB), 540 (great victory on St David's day), 554 (Hergest, Jones, CB).

Parts of the HB possibly may have been written by Gildas or a near contemporary? There seem to be possible matches in the HB for the 40/43/44 yrs of Gildas:
5658 + 373 + 28 + 12 (HB); 5658 + 373 + 28 + 4 = 400 + 69 (HB).
Jesus + 405/438 yrs = Patrick + x/40/85 + 40 (incl 4) = Brigit HB.
40 days St Patrick; 40 yrs St Patrick (16 + 25 yrs? from birth to 40 yo, & from 40 yo to 85 yo); 120 yrs Patrick ("like Moses") is 3 x 40 (like Hergest).
40 days St Martin; St Martin is 444th yr ad. (Mintz's paper & our own paper showed seeming possible links between Arthur/Merlin & Ares/Mars & Martin.)
40 days/nights Germanus.
Alarm 40 yrs after Maximus (HB).

The birth day of Gildas (whose life has a dates range of 421 to 572) seemingly might be linked with either birth day of Columba/Columcille (HB, 521 in AC), or birth day of St David ("great victory  of Arthur against Saxons on St David's day", "Patrick prophesied David's birth"), or birth day of Brigit (454 in AC). (Brigit seems to link with Mary of Guinnion/Badon. Columba/Iona means "dove" and is linked with Hwiterne "white house" and thus with Guinnion and Dover. Gildas b 421 resembles Columba 521?) [Or, a previous considered possibility is that Arthur vs Gildas/Caw might be linked with Ambrosius vs Guitolinus?]

"Arthur" seems to be connected with St Padarn/Paternus (eg "i Paternus known as Arthur"), and with St Patrick/Maun (eg Arthur: 7 or 9 battle sites, 44 yrs, sword excalibur from "stone", grave a wonder; St Patrick: raised 9 from dead, 40 yrs, his father Calpurnius, his sepulchre unknown). The metropolis of Padarn seems to be linked with the city of the legion [& Richborough/Rutupi]? The 3 solemnities of Padarn, and the 3 churches of Padarn are linked with Arthur's battles. Arthur's battles features in the HB either in section 50 before Patrick section, or section 56 after Patrick section. 2 followers of Patrick have same names as 2 companions of Arthur in the Modena Archivolt.
Patricks dates range is:
7 / 16/17 / 25 yrs (HB) / 30 yrs (AC) / 40 / 85 / 120 yrs (HB);
405 (HB), [421 (HB)?] 428/429/430 (ASC), 432 (Irish Annals), 438 (HB), 457 (AC), 461/462 (Irish Annals), 492 (Irish Annals), 553 (relics of Pat, Irish Annals).

Gwallawg's battles in Taliesin seem to possibly match Arthur's battles of HB & of the PG [& the 9 Saxon Shore sites].
Ambrosius = Ambrose/Embres-gueltic which possibly = Gwallawg?
Ambrosius' battle Catgwaloph/Gwoloppum may possibly link with Guallauc/Gwallawg?
Badon of AC = Guinnion of HB which possibly may link with Guitolinus?
Gwallawg (Taliesin) ~ Gavael-vawr (PaGur) ~ Rithergabail??
Gwallawg ~ Tudu-vallus?? 
Arthgal / Arthur / Arthwys (HB) ~ Gwarth(ur) / Garthwys?
Artognou ~ Guorthenau?
Gwarth Ennian ~ Guinnion/Gurnion?

The primary historical original "(King) Arthur" was one or two or more persons in the Saxon Shore between the 300s/400s to 600s/700s (maximum). Our SS KA candidates are some of the ones in this list of King Arthur candidates:
The mysterious body of levitating altar (Wonders); the Dover Painted House skeleton; Gwallawg (Taliesin); Ambrosius/Aurelius (Gildas/Nennius); Amr (Wonders); St Padarn/Paternus (Tintagel, Sts Lives, Kamlesh); St Patrick (HB); Brychan; Tewdrig (Tintern); St Andrew; Luthor/Liber son of Art; St Martin (Mintz); Germanus / Gwarth Ennian (EH); count Theodosius "the brown bear"; Categern; Kentigern Garthwys / Mungo; Vortimer (HB, HRB); St David; the king Tuduvallus of St Ninian story; Ninian's christian father; Gwarthur (Gododdin); Gwythyr ap Greidiawl; Ursicinus (Hoxne); Cissa (Nothgyth Quest); Cadwallon or Cadwaladr; Art(h)us (Swedish King List); count of Saxon Shore; Sutton Hoo Man; dux brit. (ND); pre-Augustine "Ethelbert" (ASC); "British King" (ASC); "progeny of AA" (DEB); "bear" Cuneglas (DEB); Mac Erca (Pestano); Arthur mac Aedan (Ardrey); Riothamus (Sidonius, Ashe); Natanleod (ASC); Authari or Rothari (Lombard king); Maelgwn (DEB); Urien(s) (Brewyn); Bodwyr (Brynjulfson); "Cerdic" (Han, Hunt); Artognou (Tintagel); st Arthmael; pope Pelagius/Martin; Arthari (Diaconus); Great Britain; Pictish king (Omer, Bullen); mac Art (Irish), LAC; Arviragus (HRB); Bacchic figure (Dover Painted House); Deoartavois (Hoeh); grave/cenotaph at cruciform platform of Richborough; Bran; Arthuret; Cole; Arthgal; Mercury Artaios; Arthur of Bradley; Artook Khan (Turkish); Ardys (Lydian); Rudra/Siva; Artha (Campbell, Walker); Ares/Mars (Mintz); Asshur (Genesis 10); the bear of Daniel (bible); Sarmatian/Nart; Herr Thor (Waddell); Artemis; Ursa; Arcturus; Long Man (Wilmington/Windover), the porter Gavael-vawr (Pa Gur), Arthwys son of Mavricus/Meurig/Mor ("Gwent"); Arthur (m)ap Petr(oc) ("Dyfed/Demetia").
The name "Arthur" may possibly be like a title or position abit like Pendragon is considered to be?

Thus we have now provisionally more or less answered the 3 main questions of "where was Arthur?" "when was Arthur?" and "who was Arthur" (and "was Arthur a king?" and "was Arthur a christian?")

-----

And here is very rough copy of our new Camelot information from a recent facebook comment of ours:

Versions of the name Camelot include:
Caamalot, Kaamalot, Kaamelot, Gamalaot, Chamalot, Camchilot, Camelot, Kamelot, kemelet, Camalot, Kameloth, Cameloth, Kamaelot, Camaalot, Kamaalot, Camaelot, Camehelot, Camaaloth, Kamaaloth, Kamahaloth, Camahaloth; Schamilot, Damolot, Camylot.

Some known Camelot theories/evidences:
Malory thought Camelot was "Winchester".
Camelot has a St Stephen's church.
Some say Camelot may be near Camlan(n)?
Some thought Camelot is Camulodunum/Colchester.
Shallot was upstream from Camelot.
one source says "Camelot was Tintagel" but i don't know whether reliable?
"many towered Camelot" [compare 140 churches lyonesse/logres/legions?]

possible originals of Camelot/Schamilot in Arthurian traditional sources (HRB, HB/Wonders, DEB):
nobles of Kemenet-heboe;
campus/field Electi/elleti/Aelecti/gleti (Bassalig? "district of Glevesing") [which may link with Eliseg &/or Mt Eli &/or Helig's land / land of Helig / kingdom of Helig &/or 'vy(.)thneint Elei' "Vultures of Ely" (Pa Gur)?]
campus Heli (metropolis of St Padarn);
camas Longart/Longphort ("near Conchra on loch long");
castle of Dimilioc (Tintagel, HRB)?
monastery Cambuslang;
Campus Lapideus / campo iuxta lapidem tituli ("Richborough")?
Cameliard / Carmelide;
Rhos / Mel-ros ("yellow headland") ; Maelgwn?
field of Gai Campi.
field Maisbeli.
Cetgueli?
Cuneglas?
Natanleod? [Naw Cant Lliwed "ruler of 900 (warrior) companies"]
Burmaltus/Durmalt-le-galois or Mardoc or Carrado (Modena Archivolt)?
catel Drunluc?
Gomeret ("Guined")?
Gamille the Maiden of the Castle?
Celliwig ("in Cornwall")?
Cantguic.
Samuil Pen...?
Elasius / Elesa (father of Cerdic)?
The city where was born Helena (mother of Constantine)?
Maelgwn &/or court of Rhos?
sons of Eliffer/Elifert (AC).
Mt Eli or Amatheus or Amalgaid or "Armagh" (of St Patrick's life in HB).
Shamrock (of St Patrick).
Amallet / Alled / Allaid / Alyth (Gododdin)?
Meigle (local Scottish Arthurian tradition).
Cannheleydd?
Elvod?
Elmet?
Maegla (501 ASC)?
Eliseg (Pillar of Eliseg).
Eli & Enoch, or Cynvelin (Taliesin)?
Cennfaelad
Beli
CwmCawlwyd
Cole / Maelor
Cynlaith.

possible later analogous sites elsewhere in British Isles / W Europe:
Cambus kenneth / Campsie(s) (Stirling)??
Santa Maria de Compostela (Galicia, analogous to site in Arthurian Britain)
cam Loth "twisted/crooked + marsh" (Dunadd/Dunardry, river Add)

possible south-east [Saxon Shore] Camelot name matches:
Cavloc/"saul" (Sutton Hoo);
Camulodunum/Colchester
Mellitus (London)?
Canterbury?
Colton (Dover)?
Camlet Way?
Cams/Cam / Hamble (Portchester/Southampton)??

    Malory:
great white palace of white marble at Camelot (melyn "yellow"?) [at "Winchester"/Guintonhi.]
    Possible actual site Richborough/Rutupi:
large (white) cruciform platform building "faced with Italian marbles"?

Pont-Stephen (Lam-peter)
~ church of st Stephen [1st christian martyr] at Camelot
~ St Alban & Sts Aaron & Julius of city of legion 1st british xtian martyrs
~ Labienus tribune of Julius Caesar (1st Roman to die in Britain)
~ large cruciform platform at Richborough [may be cenotaph/grave?]
~ grave of Gawain at Richborough/Rutupi or Dover?

A few years older post is here to see progress: http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/34777-arthur-one-camelot-many-camelots-17.html



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 08-Sep-2017 at 04:36

This post is on the much disputed question of when was "(king/dux) Arthur", and more specially when the 12 battles of Arthur (including the Badon one) were. Here are lists of the maximum & minimum ranges of the dates for many things that feature in Arthurian chronology. (This comment was stimulated by Caleb's post http://arthur-and-the-emperor.blogspot.co.nz/2017/06/an-inconsistency-in-arthurian-studies.html via Arthurian society in facebook. [You may have to replace the "nz" with your own countries 2 letter initials code (eg nz, au, us, uk) (or replace "co.nz" with "com") if link address doesn't work.])

 -----

Pope Evaristus/Eucharistus [Nerva] or Eleutherius [Lucius Verus] date ranges from ad 79 (Arundel), to 99-107, to 156 (HRB), to 161/167 (Arundel/ASC), to 174-189 (ASC).

Vortigern dates : 400 (HB), 426 (Hergest/Jones), 449 (ASC).

No person matching/named Arthur mentioned in 2 Gallic chronicles of 452 & 511.

The Anglo-Saxons arrival date ranges from Saxons/Germans 350/360, to Germanic raiders/settlers 367/368, to Hengist 400 (HB), to 438 (ACb), to 443 (ASC),  to 449 (ASC), to 469 (ACb), to Aelle 477, to Cerdic 495, to Port 501, to Wihtgar 514, to Ida before 547?

The main 128 years or 3 generations theories are: 390-518 (Kamlesh), 425/426/428-554 (Hergest/Cambro-Briton/Mary Jones), 449-577.
[From Hengist to Wihtgar are 56 or 66 yrs (Ethelwerd).]
From Anglo-Saxons arrival to Arthur's battle(s) is 40/43/44 yrs or 1 generation (DEB)?
* 128 (Hergest) = 3 x 40/43/44; 42 yrs Africa; 42 yrs in prison Jose of Arimathea; alarm 40 yrs after Maximus (HB); Martin ad 444; 40 days/nights Germanus; 40 yrs Patrick; 40 days Patrick; 40 days Rhun; 43/44 (DEB) = (4 +) 28 + 12 (HB); 16+25 yrs Pat (HB); 40 yr Pat to Brigit + 405 yr, or 40 yrs Pat + 4 yr Columba to Brigit; victory of Arthur on David's day 540/640; 43/44 = 2 x 22 (AC); 19 x 22/23 = 421/438 (HB).
 Arthur (HB) ~ Badon/Bath ~ Ambrosius (DEB) ~ Catgwaloph/Gwoloppum (HB) ~ Cetgueli ~ Guallauc/Gwallawg's battles (HB/Taliesin) ~ Arthur's battles (HB)?
Great king Ambrosius = Ambrose/Embres-gueltic = Gwallawg('s battles) = Arthur's battles?
Arthur's 9/12 battles (Ex-calibur from "stone", 44 yrs, drove Saxons out of land, grave a wonder) = metropolis of Padarn & 3 solemnities/churches of Padarn (Sts Lives) = Patrick ("rock", father Calpurnius, 40 yrs, rid land of serpents, no one knows sepulchre) (HB).
Catgwaloph (Ambrosius, HB) ~ Gwal/Gual "wall" (Severus, HB) ~ Gualenses/Welsh ~ Gualo their leader & Guales their Queen (HRB) ~ Guallauc/Gwallawg (Taliesin/HB) ~ Arthgallo/Arthgal/Art(h)egal of Cargueit/Warguit (HRB)?
Guitolinus ~ Guinnion?


St Germanus (Gwarth?) has date range from [350/360? to Germanic settlers 367/8? to] Halleluyah 429, to 2nd visit 447, [to vita/life 480/480s? to St Geminianus (Modena Archivolt)?]

Arthur's battles against specifically Kentishmen (HB/Collingwood) who have date range 449-488 and/or 560-616 (ASC)?

1st victory of Ambrosius between 429-450/456 (EH?)
St Pol/Paul(inus) Aurelian(us)/Uurmonocus de Leon in Breton tradition.

"488-547 only landings of Saxons on the coast".
The dates of the gaps between Bretwaldas are 491-560, and 670-802.
No gains gap in ASC ranges from 519 to 552 (ASC/Brynjulfson).
"510-555 emigration of Angles & Frisians to the Continent".
"gap in Gildas 500-550" (Carroll)?

"(King) Arthur's" (battles) date ranges from tranisition from Draco to Ursa (Hitching), to Bronze Age (Drou), to [Ursus 776-42 bc (me)? to Arviragus, and/or Deoartavois 47- 67 (me)? to] 180 ce, [to 350/383 (Morris)?] to 421 (CMSM), to 450/454 (Malory), to 516 (AC), to abidcated in 574 (541 yrs after the crucifiction), to contemp of Urien's dtr (C&O), to 631- 650 (Swedish), to 640, to 650 (Wace, Morris?) to 700 ce (Arthurian Infopedia).

Our own range for possible dates of the 1st battle of Arthur at Glein is from Germanus 429, to 1st victory of Ambrosius between 429-450/456 (EH?), to grail 454 (Malory), to Graine 480, to "Glein 486" (Wiki), to Cerdicshore 495/514 (ASC), to "Badon 516" (AC), to the 519 start of the no gains gap in ASC (Brynjulfson), and/or "KA subdues Ireland 519", to Gleawancester 577, to Paulinus?

rivers/fords/fleets/shores/burns/lons/fords/ports/wets dates: 449-485 (ASC), Glein-Bassas (HB), 495-519 (ASC), Tribruit before Ida (HB/PG), Sarum 552 (ASC)?

Forests/woods dates: from Caesar (Florus), to battle of godeu/trees (Triads), [to fled like fire 473?] to Categern, to Andredesleag 477, to Netley 508 (ASC)? to Cerdicesleag 527, to Celidon (HB), to Celidon/Arthuret 573 (AC), to Fethanleag 584 (Ethelwerd).

Llongborth date range is from [Port 501? or 508?] to 710/712?

Pope Supplicius date ranges from Simplicius 468-483, [to Symmachus 498-514? to Sergius 689?]

Plagues of Camlan/Justinian 537 (AC), Maelgwn/Yellow 547 (AC), 682 (AC).

"Carisbrook"/"Wight" (which Hunt and we both have thought might link with Guinnion/Dover/Downs) dates in the sources range from [Guitolinus? to] 514 (ASC), to 530 (ASC), to 534 (ASC), to 544 (ASC), [to Hwiterne "white house" (& Columba/Iona "dove") 565 (ASC)?]

Arthur's victory against Saxons [= Guinnion or Badon] ranges from 540, to 640.

St David (&/or St David's) date range is from 458 (AC); to victory of Arthur on St Dav's day 540, to 580s (Tigernach), David buried by orders of Maelgwn late 6th cent, to d c 600, to d 601 (AC/WA), or d in reign of Constantine, to field of Leeks, to victory of Arthur on St David's day 640, [to 645 (AC)?]
(Confusion between St David's day and Gildas bday?)

Arthur may be connected with St Padarn, and/or might be linked with St Patrick who has dates range from 405, to 428/429/430 (ASC), 438, to 457 (AC), and/or Pederydan 658, and St Peter of dates in 601-3 and  616/617-618?

Sts Julius & Aaron (of the City of the legion) day 1st of July, matches Calends of July (3 solemnities of Padarn), & calends Julius 540 (ASC/Ethelwerd), Iago 613 (AC), calends July 1093 (kerediegean battle Wales), & "Merthir Ivn [Julii] & Aaron"?

forts/cities/cesters/ports/dins/burhs dates: Andredescester 490 (ASC), [port 501 (ASC)?] Wihtgarasburh 530-547 (ASC)? fort guinnion (HB), city of the legion (HB).

Badon/Bath (chapter/section 50 or 56) date ranges from Bladud "929-909"/853 bc (HRB), to c 430-440 (Higham), to 470 (HRB), to c 485 (Snyder), to c 485-520 (Wood), to 490s (Wood), to "493" ("EH"), 494-7 (Morris), to 500 (Dumville/orthodox/average), to "scholars now think Badon 518 is 10-15 years too late", to 516/519/520 (AC/WA, Ashe), to 554 (Hergest), [to Wibbandune 568? to synod Victory 569?] to Bath 577 (ASC), to 580 (Simon Stirling), to 661 (Hunt), to 665 (AC), to 674 (Evans-Gunther?) [to 940/960 (HB/me)?]
* Badon of AC = Guinnion of HB.

St Martin (who Mintz & i tentatively linked with Arthur/Merlin & Ares/Mars) date ranges from 444 (ASC), [to calends Martii 538? and Martianus 538? to victory of KA on St David's Day (1 March) 540?] to Hwiterne 560 [or 565?] (ASC), [to Merlin 573 (AC)? to victory of KA on St David's day 640? to Mark 822? to Burmaltus/Durmaltlegalois &/or Mardoc/Melwas/Meleagant (Modena Archivolt)?]

Cerdic/Cedric / Cheldric (1 &/or 2) / Cherdich dates range : Caractacus/Caradog vs emperor Claudius, to Coroticus of St Patrick, to Ceretic interpreter of Hengist, Cerdic of Wessex 495 - dies 534 (ASC), to Ceretig/Careticus of Elmet 616/619, to Kerediegean battle 1093, to Carrado (Modena Archivolt), to Caradoc of Llancarfan mid 12th cent.

Anderida/Pevensey (which is either Agned/Bregion or Arthuret) has dates ranging from [many skeletal remains of young Saxon men buried on Highdown Hill dating from 2nd half of 5th century"? to] 477 (Asc/Ethelwerd), to Cayburn 488 (local tradition), to 490/491/492 (ASC/Ethelwerd), 756, ["Hastings" (Pastscape)?]

Ida's date range is from 547 (ASC), to c 550, to 560 (ASC), to 584, [to St Aidan 607? to Idris 632?]

Camlan ranges from 537/539 (AC/WA), to 542 (HRB), [to civil war 568 (me)? to Bedcanford 571 (ASC/me)? to Arthuret 573 (me)?] to 576 (Hergest), to after Arthuret (Triads),  [to Tintern 584 (me)?] to Woddesbeorg 592? to Cantscaul 631 (AC)?]

gap between Badon and Gildas writing date ranges from 10 yrs to 40/43/45 yrs, to 60 yrs (Doyle). [Arthur's reign from Badon to Camlan was 22 yrs which is half of 40/44.]

Gildas date ranges from 421 (CMSM?), to "gap in Gildas 500-550" (Carroll), to d 512 (W. of M.), to 546 (1638 translation), to 565 (AC), to d 570/572 (AC), [to Hilda or Elvod?].

Maelgwn's death & yellow plague date ranges from 547 (AC), to Mailcun 559 (HB), to Coinmagil 577, to 586 (Hergest), to at Arthuret (DMT).

Arthuret/Caledon ranges from [Andredescester 491? to] before Camlan (Triads), to time of Maelgwn (DMT), to 573 (AC) to 593 (Hergest).

Sutton Hoo dates range : Merovingian coins 491-518, [Vendel era  about 550-793?] Merovingian coins 578-582- 602, Maurice &/or Tiberius 583, Merovingian coins 588/595-612, "cannot be dated earlier than 620".

catreath/catraeth/gododdin date range from 598/c600, to 638 (gododdin).

city of the legion/"Chester" date ranges from Caer Lleon on Dee 917 bc,
to Caer Lleon on Usk 401 bc, to Diocletian, to synod 601 (AC), [to Liganburh 571 (ASC/Ethelwerd)?] to battle 602 (Hergest), to 607 (ASC) to battle 613 (AC), to 616.

field of Leeks (St Dav's day) date ranges from [540, to] 633, to 640.
Might be linked with Staffs Hoard(s) from Lichfield of "680-740"/"7th(-8th) century"?

2nd Badon date ranges from 661 (Hunt), to 665 (AC), to 674 (Evans-Gunther?)

Easter dates 453 ac, 626 asc, 640 asc, 661 asc, 665 ac, 685 asc, 716 asc, elvod 755.

Cadwaladr date ranges from at field of Leeks, to 664 (Hergest), to 682 (AC), to 689 (HRB).
* Catgwaloph, Catgublaun/Catguollaunus, Catgualart, Gwaladyr/Gwledig/Vladika, Tewdrig?

HB &/or "Nennius" [nin "roof, protector, prince"? or nimed/nemed "sacred, venerated, heaven"?] date ranges from Nennius 55 bc (HRB), [to Nemuivus found at Bodleian 5th-8th cents? to Ninnian 565 (ASC)?] to Nennius 613 (ASC), to 796 (OEC), to Mermenus 438 + 421 = 858 (HB prologue), to 946 (HB), to 976 (HB), to 994 (OEC), to Mark 10th cent (Gunn), to Dumville on Nennius not before 12th century? to "12th cent historians refer to HB under name of Gildas / ascribed it to Gildas"?

 -----

Arthurian Refs: AC/WA, ASC; Arthurian Infopedia; Geoff Ashe; Bede (EH); Brynjulfson; C&O; Collingwood; Charles Evans-Gunther; Geoff of Mon (HRB); Gildas (DEB); Gallic; HRB; Dan/August Hunt; Malory; Morris; Nennius (HB); OEC; Bk of Hergest; Tigernach; Triads; Taliesin; M Wood; Wiki.

Links: ours:
http://historum.com/blogs/gold+heart/31681-nennius-gildas-re-king-arthur-bits.html
http://historum.com/blogs/gold+heart/31690-skeleton-arthurian-britain-timeline-caesar-egbert.html

Links: others:
Hergest http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/hchron1.html
Welsh Annals http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/halsall/source/annalescambriae.html
ASC http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/657.txt.utf-8
OEC (Nennius/HB, Gildas, HRB, Ethelwerd) http://www.gutenberg.org/files/37848/37848-h/37848-h.htm
Timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Anglo-Welsh_Wars
Timeline http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_conflict_in_Anglo-Saxon_Britain
Pa Gur http://www.mythiccrossroads.com/PaGur.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_King_Arthur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_basis_for_King_Arthur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arthurian_characters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sites_and_places_associated_with_Arthurian_legend
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliography_of_King_Arthur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_about_King_Arthur

Abbrevs:
AC = Welsh Annals
ASC = Anglo-Saxon chronicle
AC(b) = Annales Cambriae / Welsh Annals
c(a) = circa/approximately/roughly / around about
C&O = Culwch & Olwen
CMSM = C of Mt St Mich
cent = century
contemp = contemporaneous/contemporary
ce = ad
dtr = daughter
d = died/death/dead
DEB = Gildas'
DMT
EH = Bede's
HB = "Nennius"
HRB = Geoff of Monmouth's
Jose/Joe/Joey = Joseph
KA = "(King) Arthur"
OEC = Old English Chronicles
PG = Pa Gur
St = Saint
WA = Welsh Annals
W. of M.
wiki = wikipedia
yr(s) = year(s)
& = and
~ = may possibly correspond/match
[things in square bracket] = our own some-time possible match theory



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 10-Jul-2017 at 13:18

I barely just managed to get one more battle site done. The 4 i've managed to get re-done now were excessively hard work (in bad situation) and wasted days/week/weeks of my time (12 hours a day, getting nothing else done) and wasted my unfluoridated water rations. It has stressed me to the very limits. (No wonder K Jackson had a heart attack.) I am definitely not able or willing to re-do anymore of the remaining 5 battle sites. It is now proven that they are purposely using any excuse they can to refuse to admit/acknowledge/credit our discovery and years hard work (though the only reason i redid the chapters was because i was incensed at Caldrail unfairly calling me "sloppy" and dismissing all our evidences). They are always qucik to attack any negatives (even if not my fault but situation, even if is not even true or fair), but when i do the excessive hard work they force then there is just nothing but silence.

To save the forum funds i will post the new chapter in the old 12 battles ebook.

Links to the 4 new redone battle sites chapters:
4. Celidon (Kit's Coty/Coldrum & the Weald):
http://www.allempires.com/forum/chapter_admin.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1536
3. Bassas (Reculver):
http://www.allempires.com/forum/chapter_admin.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1535
6. city of the legion (Richborough/Rutupi)
http://www.allempires.com/forum/chapter_admin.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1538
5. Guinnion (Dover)
http://www.allempires.com/forum/chapter_admin.asp?BookID=101&ChapterID=1537

(One detail section on the date of Celidon battle is just provisional and is a not very good jumble. I also have 5 small bits to add to the Celidon chapter.)

Some positive feed-back would help my morale.

Waste of days/weeks/months/years time and excessive hard work (a-midst bad situation) (and waste of water rations, etc) for nothing? Well at least they can't call me "sloppy" anymore (not that they had a right to in the first place since it was not me but the socio-economic situation, and "laying grievious burdens hard to be bourne on people that they won't even touch with small finger"), and at least no one can call me a bludger since i done years hard work not paid for. I am guessing they will forever use any and every possible excuse to refuse to credit until/unless the remaining final absolute proof comes.

We managed to re-do one more battle site chapter (this one on the city of the legion = Richborough/Rutupi). Thats 3 out of 9 re-done, and 6 out of 9 left to re-do. But i am definitely not able to do anymore in this situation unless they improve my situation or at least stop forcing their fluoridated (etc) tap water on me, and give some positive for what done.

Sorry for repetition again but i had to arrange the chapters the way i have. I am not happy that i had to leave a few things out too (like the metropolis of Padarn, Locrinus/Lucrinum, possible St Patrick connection(s), etc).

(12 battles but) 9 battle sites of Arthur of the HB of "Nennius"
match
9 Saxon Shore sites from Great Yarmouth to Portsmouth.
(match
9 battle sites of Arthur of the Pa Gur.)

This map clearly shows our 9 sites matches :
http://2rbetterthan1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/map-12battleska-9fortsss2.png

The 'city of the legion' the (9th battle but) 6th battle site of Arthur in the HB of Nennius
matches
Richborough/Rutupiae the 5th site of the Saxon Shore & the ND
(matches
Dissethach the 5th battle site of Arthur in the PaGur.)

Quote of the 'city of the legion' part of the 12 battles (but 9 battle sites) of Arthur in the HB of "Nennius":

" Then (it was, that the magnanimous) Arthur(,) fought against {them / the Saxons} {in those days / ,} with (all) the kings (and military force) of (the) Britain(s)(. And though there were many more noble than himself,) but/yet he (himself) was (twelve times chosen) the(ir) leader/commander {of battles / , and was as often conqueror}.

....

[6th site:]
Nonum bellum gestum est in urbe/urbs Legionis.

In nomadcath i cathraig ind Legoin;

The ninth (battle) (was) (fought/waged) in/at (the) City of (the) Legion(s)(, gloss: which (in British) is called Cair Lion)./;

[See also many other Arthurian/"Welsh" sources (DEB/Gildas, EH/Bede, 11 Consuls 'HRB'/Geoff, '24 kings & 33 cities', 'AC'/"WA", Hergest, Ywenec, Beroul) for more details about the Arthurian 'city of (the) Legion(s)' / "Caerleon", such as the Round Table being there, its archbishop Dubricius, St Julius & Alban, etc.]
[See also the City of Lions/Lyonesse.]

....

[And] in all his/these battles/engagements {he / the Britons} proved/were victorious/successful. For no strength can avail against the will of the Almighty.
The more the Saxons were vanquished, the more they sought for new supplies of Saxons from Germany; so that kings, commanders, and military bands were invited over from almost every province. And this practice they continued till the reign of Ida, who was the son of Eoppa, he, of the Saxon race, was the first king in Bernicia, and in Cair Ebrauc (York). "

From the quote above (from the HB of Nennius) we get 13 identification details for the 'city of the legion', and from other Arthurian/Welsh sources we get a further 8+ details for the city of the legion / "Caerleon", giving us 21+ details in all for this (battle) site.

From the HB of Nennius:
i. number/order ("6th" battle site of 9, "9th" battle of 12)
(+ near preceeding & succeeding battle sites)
ii. a "battle" fought there
iii. fought "in/at" there
iv. is a "city/urbe/caer"
v. had a legion [& specifically implied to be the legio ii Augusta?]
vi. name/called 'urbe legionis' "city of the legion"
vii. name/called CairLion
viii. fought by Arthur/Britons
ix. fought against Saxons
x. date (before Ida ["ca 547"], before Badon ["516/554"])
xi. is written in the HB of Nennius (which also has the Wonders of Britain in it).
xii. is "historia"
xiii. is in "(the island of) Britain"

From other sources:
xiv. bishop Dubricius
xv. St Julius
xvi. inaccessable at time of one of the sources writers.
xvii. Arthur's capital
xviii. Round Table was there
ixx. not far from Isneldone/Snowdon
xx. was on the banks of a river like the Usk(e)
xxi. Tremounus.
[xxvii. at land's end by island].

(All the 9 battle sites of Arthur of the HB of Nennius only-best match the 9 Saxon Shore forts from Great Yarmouth to Portsmouth, and) the 'city of the legion' the 6th battle site of Arthur only-best matches Richborough/Rutupi in most-all of the 21 identification details given by sources. The only 1/2/3 details that we can't yet totally prove in archaeology (or in non-"unreliable" records) is/are that Arthur &/or the Britons were there (in Kent) then, and that the battle was actually fought there (at Richborough) then, and the definite exact date that the battle was. (It is also adamantly contended by arch-sceptics and arch-critics that we can't definitely prove that Richborough/Rutupiae was called 'city of the legion' in any other sources, though our evidence is otherwise very very strong that this 1 and the other 8 battle sites do match our Saxon Shore sites, and we do give some possible evidences that this site was called city of the legion in other sources.)

Now we give more detailed information explanation of the 21 details of the city of the legion and their matches with our site Richborough/Rutupi.

i. number/order ("6th" battle site of 9, "9th" battle of 12)
(+ near preceeding & succeeding battle sites)

The HB of Nennius has a set of 9 battle sites of Arthur (which match 9 of 10 actual sites from Brancaster to Portsmouth).
The ND has a set of 9 Saxon Shore forts (which match 9 of 10 actual sites from Yarmouth to Portsmouth).
Each and all of "only" 8 of the 9 battle sites of Arthur/Nennius/HB (& actual sites) match each and all of "only" 8 of the 9 Saxon Shore sites of the ND (and actual sites) all in numerical & geographical order (which can not be coincidence) from Great Yarmouth to Portsmouth.

The ND(-&-actual) has an "extra" 1st fort that the HB(-&-actual) doesn't; and the ND(-&-actual) doesn't have the 4th site of the HB(-&-actual). The HB(-&-actual) has an "extra" 4th site that ND(-&-actual) doesn't, and the HB(-&-actual) doesn't have the 1st fort of ND(-&-actual).

8 matching HB & SS/ND sites, plus the "extra" 1st SS/ND fort, plus the "extra" 4th HB site, makes 10 actual SS sites from Brancaster to Portsmouth.

The 'city of the legion' the 6th battle site of 9 of the HB matches Richborough/Rutupi the 5th site of 9 of the SS/ND (and both match Dissethach the 5th battle site of 9 of the PG.)

The minor cross-switch match of 5th & 6th sites between HB & SS/ND is confirmed in other sources. (HB is in battles order, SS/ND is in geographical sites order.)

The 'city of the legion' the 6th battle site of Arthur in the HB of Nennius.
Richborough/Rutupiae the 5th site of the Saxon Shore & the ND.
Dissethach the 5th battle site of Arthur in the PaGur.
Gwensteri [6th/9th] battle of Gwallwag (Taliesin)?
Jugein/Vigenis of Legecester 5th of 11 Consuls (HRB).
Leominster 7th/6th (12 Monasteries list).
Lynn Liuan 6th (Wonders).

[Maybe "Arthur" didn't do them all in order because he didn't want the enemy to know which fort/battle was next? Richborough and Dover are pretty close anyway.]

All other locations theories do not have a match of the numbers/order, they only match the 9 HB sites with artificial associations of 9 unnumbered sites, not with an attested list/group of 9 numbered sites like ours.

Of course one could perhaps connect 6th battle site 'city of the legion' with Sextae of York, but there is no 9 sites numbers/order match, and York doesn't match all 21 identification details, and the 9 battle sites of Arthur/Nennius only-best match the 9 Saxon Shore sites.

The 12 battles are 9 battle sites since battles 2-5 were in same 1 site, and "Nennius" lists all 9 in order. Since the first 3 are all rivers, and 2 of the middle 3 are settlements, and the last 2 of the last 3 are mountains/hills, the 9 (3x3) battle sites is considered by some to have possibly been 3 sets of 3 rivers, 3 settlements and 3 hills. [Sites 3 and 4 are switched in some lists.] The middle 3 battle sites #s 4-6 (Celidon or Bassas, Guinnion, Legions) as all settlements matches our 3 sites in Kent (Aylesford or Reculver, Richborough/Rutupi, Dover/Dubris). Compare the "3 renowned cities" of another source?

6th/5th battle site 'city of the legion' / Dissethach is near 3rd/4th site Bassas/Afarnach, & 4th/3rd site Celidon/Celli, & 5th/6th site Guinnion/Eidyn, & 7th site Tribruit. This matches Richborough/Rutupi [city of the legion] is near Reculver/Regulbium [Bassas], Coldrum [Celidon], Dover/Dubris [Guinnion], Lemanis [Tribruit], all of which are in Kent and linked with Canterbury by roads.

The 'City of the Legion' is the site of the 9th battle of Arthur, which might possibly connect with the '9th wave Peryddon' grave of Gwalchmai/Walwin/Gawain. Traditional Arthurian sources say Gawain/Gwalchmai died/buried/skull at Rutupi (or Dover). It might also/alternatively lik with the 9th hour of Caesar's landing?

ii. a "battle" fought there (at city of the legion [Richborough/Rutupi]).

All our evidences are overwhelming that the 9 battle sites of Arthur of the HB of Nennius match the 9 Saxon Shore sites (in names/meanings, natures/details/geographies and numbers/order), and that the 6th battle site the 'city of the legion' matches Richborough/Rutupi. However we can not yet prove archaeologically (or in non-"unreliable" records) that the battles were actually fought there then. We can only give some seeming possible evidences found so far for the battle of 'city of the legion' being fought at Richborough:

Archaeological evidence that battle (of city of the legion) fought there & then may include:
The fort, and visible possible physical traces/marks of battle/s fought there. (Fort is well preserved but has damages that could be from battles.)
[Anglo-Saxon cemetry Sarre? / "Numerous Saxon cemetaries found at Sarre, Ash, Kingston"?]
There is evidence that some of the SS forts were still/again in re/use in Arthurian times.
The SS forts "present a number of archaeological & historical problems".
Supposed absence of evidence is not disproof/proof of anything.

Strategic evidence that battle (of city of the legion) fought there & then may include:
"[those who control the SE have the main power/hold in Britain]"?
There are roads linking our battle sites. Canterbury is at intersection of roads to 3/4/5 of our battle sites.
Saxon Shore is strategic.

Records evidence that battle (of city of the legion) fought there & then may include:
The 12 battles / 9 battle sites of the HB definitely match the 9 Saxon Shore sites (in names/meanings, natures/geographies/details and numbers/order), with the 6th battle site of the city of the legion certainly matching Richborough/Rutupi.
Collingwood said Nennius' words implied that "Arthur was fighting Saxons & specifically Kentishmen".
The battle site of Dissethach of the Pa Gur also seems to match Richborough.
St Martin's church, Canterbury? (Leon Mintz's paper suggested connection between war god Mars/Ares, Martin and Arthur/Merlin. Canterbury is at intersection of roads leading to 3/4/5 of our battle sites.)
It is said that Gawain died in a[nother] battle at Rutupi (or Dover). (Meaning another battle at the same site.)

The eclipse & calends of Martii 538 entry of the ASC & Ethelwerd might be connected with the battle of Guinnion at Dover (St Martin le Grand) (compare the "great victory of Arthur against the Saxons on St David's (birth)day [1st March] 540 or 640), and the eclkipse and calends of Julius 540 might match the battle of the 'city of the legion' (St Julius) at Richborough/Rutupi (Julius Caesar). (The exact same date of # days before the calends of July is in the '3 solemnities of Padarn' and also seems to match the 'city of the legion'.)

The battle of Liganburh 571 (ASC/Ethelwerd) might be a later battle at the same site. (The 571 sites were hitherto supposed to be in Bedord/Buckinghamshire, but some doubt this. 3 of the 571 sites names match 3 battle sites of Arthur of the HB (Bassas, Legions, Guinnion), and from this and from other ASC entries it seems possible that they may match our sites in Kent and be later Saxon re/takings of our battle sites?)

Records or/and archaeology:
"510-555 emigration of Angles & Frisians to the Continent".
"British strategy seems to have been to allow Saxon landings and to then contain them, there."
"488-547 only landings of Saxons on the coast". (Another source says Saxons/battles "were largely limited to the coast", though at abit earlier date.)

Other scholars opinions:
Professor Fields suggested that Arthur  "led the armies of the British kings up and down the eastern coast fending off English settlers." (They may mean the east coast further-up than us, but it still agrees with our sites from Yarmouth [Glein] to Dover [Guinnion].)
Charles P suggests that "Arthur's war in England was fought in Kent and the East Midlands, perhaps as far north as Lincolnshire, but not in the West Country."

The earlier battle of the 'city of the legion' of Arthur of the HB can not be same as the later battle of Chester as some assert, because different date, different leader, different enemy, different outcome, etc. [Chronicle of Werburgh not mention battle or city of the legion?] The later battle wouldhave been copied from the earlier.

The 3 orthodox 'city of the legion' candidates (Caerleon, Chester, York) are not strategic. Caerleon is ridiculously too far west (unless Arthur was fighting Irish or other Britons/Welsh). Chester is surely too far west, and probably to far north (if Arthur was fighting Saxons). York is probably too far north (if Arthur was fighting Saxons, unless he was fighting Angles or Scots or Picts).
"there were no Saxons [at] Caerleon, none near Chester or in [the] North in Arthur's time [except Angles in Forth of Firth]" (Evans).
["Not source before Geoff of Monmouth says that Arthur fought Scots/Picts"?]
Orthodox sources say that the Britons/Welsh weren't limited to Cornwall & Wales & North until after Dyrham (577) & "Chester" (early 600s).
A source says "indefensible plain" about Caerleon / Gwent.

iii. fought "in/at" there.

Arthur's 9th battle (6th battle site) was fought "in/at" the city of the legion. I am not yet sure of the exact correct match for this at Richborough/Rutupi, but it surely has possible matches.

iv. a city/urbe

The HB of Nennius says that this 6th battle site was a "city/urbe". This matches our site Richborough/Rutupiae as seen by these examples:
- Rutupiae/Richborough fort was earlier/later a "civil(ian settlement) and commercial town".
- Bede's EH has "the city of Rutupi portus".
- "in Orosius and the 'Commenta Lucani' Rutupiae is called civitas, and elsewhere orbs (Mai Class. auct. vii, 578)." Note that "orbs" is the exact same word as "urbe/urb/urbs" of the HB of Nennius.
- Ptolemy, writing in the second century, names Rutupiae, London and Daruernum (Canterbury) as the ‘towns‘ of the Cantii.
- "City/urbs" might also match the "borough" of Rich-borough?
- Rhutupis/Richborough was a "metropolis", and "... the British towns Rhutupis, ....", and "Rhutupis Colonia"? ("Richard of Cirencester"/"Bertram".)
- "there is evidence of a large Roman population here [Richborough] in the early 5th century...."
- The 2 or 3 middle battles sites of Arthur of the HB as all settlements matches Kent.

[- the “city” Liganburh of the 571 ASC & Ethelwerd entry may also match the 'city of the legion' & Richborough. (See below.)]

(Also compare the 'dwellings of Dissethach' (Pa Gur) which appears to match both Richborough / Rutupi (SS/ND) and the 'city of the legion' (HB).)

Some scathing critics smartly counter-asserted that the ancients/medievals distinguished between forts and cities, but aside from our evidence above (and below), perhaps also compare that "The Ravenna geographer (432, 7) calls all the forts of the Roman Wall civitates"?

[Also, although about something different, a note in Old English Chronicles says "Urbs, "city," seems here rather to designate country or territory." This can also fit the Richborough/Rutupi area, and certain synonymous matching sites of Arthurian sources. There is also a brief note in my file of "urbem/arcem" without any details.]

Regarding other claimed 'city of the legion' candidates, some point out that the 'urbs' "city" of 'urbs legionis' "city of the legion" of Nennius/Gildas is different to 'castrum'/'cair' of Chester, and 'cair' of Caerleon. (Though others say that urbs and cair are interchangeable synonyms.)

v. a legion [& specifically implied to be the legio ii Augusta?]

The 6th battle site of Arthur is called the "city of the legion" (singular) in the HB of Nennius (and is called "(city of) legions" ((genitive) plural) in the HRB of Geoff of Monmouth)". So there was a legion or were legions at the place at sometime. (Also, the 'city of the legion' being interchanged with "Caerleon" maybe implies that the legion was the legio ii Augusta?)

Orthodox academic Arthurians assert that there were only 3 legionary bases in Britain, and that the 'city of the legion' can and must only be one of these 3. However there were legions at other places in the history of Roman Britain, including at Rutupi/Richborough, as can be seen by this timeline of Roman legions and/or cities of the legion in Britain:

917bc Caer Lleon on Dee
401bc Caer Lleon on Usk
60/61 [Menai] massacre 9th legion
68 Lindum/Lincoln, Virconium/Wroxeter, Glevum/Gloucester;
75ad legion Gloucester
80 Eboracum/York, Virconium/Wroxeter, DV/Chester, IS/Caerleon;
180 Eboracum/York, DV/Chester, IS/Caerleon;
[277-285 Rutupi built;]
[305 Rutupiae (ND?)]
395/400s/420/420s/428 the ND (which has legio ii Augusta at Rutupiae).
407 Constantine 3 withdraws legio ii Augusta to Gaul;
by ear 5th cent forces from Caerleon transferred to Cardiff;
[501 Ebur [York] died]
536 legion Britons Loire (St Dalmas)?
571 Liganburh/Lygeanburg
601/602 synod urbis legionum/ligionis / "Chester" (AC);
607/613/616 battle Caerlegion/Legecester/Chester
655 "30 legions"
800ad Caerleon referred to as CairLegeion guar Uisc
894 Legaceaster
973 city of legions
1653 "city of legion" inscription Chester

8 of the 9 battle sites of the HB match 8 of the 9 SS forts of the ND (in names/meanings, natures/geographies/details & in numbers/order), with the 6th battle site the 'city of the legion' matching the 5th SS site Richborough/Rutupi which has match(es) for (the) legion(s):
- There was a legion (legio ii Augusta) at Rutupi/Richborough SS fort in the ND.
- Rutupi/Richborough is "traditionally the place where the four invading legions mustered for the Claudian invasion of Britain"? (Though this is disputed by some recently.)

Some arch-critics try to counter claim that Richborough was not the legio ii Augusta's "main base", and/or that the legion wasn't there in Arthur's time. However, these have possible answers. There is no reason why our 'city of the legion' site Richborough has to be their main base. The HB's 'city of the legion' wording doesn't necessarily indicate when the legion was there? The ND of ca 395/400s/420/420s/428 has the "legio ii Augusta" at "Rutupiae" (Richborough). The legio ii Augusta went from Caerleon to Rutupi/Richborough, which means the latter is closer date to Arthur than the former. (It is also said that forces abandoned Caerleon for Cardiff.) The Saxon Shore was active in time of Theodosius not long before Arthur.

I saw somewhere something about "Carmarthen / (city of the) 1000(0) (soldiers)", which might be connected with the 'city of the legion'. [Maybe compare "David bishop of Merlin's town Caerleon"? Taliesin's 1000 sons? Arthur slew 960/940 at Badon.] This too may match our site Richborough/Rutupi. I think i saw somewhere that Rutupi/Richborugh had not more than perhaps 1000 men? "Legio 2nd Britannica ... just 1,000 strong by then [ear 5th cent]"; "the II Augusta had reduced alot [to 1/10th]".

The Chester and York 'city of the legion' candidates of others had a different legion to the legio ii Augusta that is implied by "Caerleon (on Usk".

vi. name/called 'city of the legion'.

The 6th battle site of Arthur is called 'urbs legionis' "city of the legion". We have shown that Richborough was a city/urbs, and had a legion, but arch-sceptics & arch-critics demand that we also have to show that it was also called "city of the legion" in other sources. We have not yet found any definite non-"unreliable" sources examples yet, but we do so far have a few possible evidences that Richborough was called "city of the legion":

- Urbe Legionis ('HB' of "Nennius"), which definitely matches Richborough/Rutupi.
- Leg(e)ceastre ('Pa Halgan' / 'Kentish Royal Legend')?
- The 'city of Lions/Lyonesse' "between Land's End / Cornwall and Scilly"  in the south-west is analogously similar to our 'city of the legion' candidate Richborough/Rutupi in the Wantsum-Stour area between Kent and Thanet in the south-east.
- Lygeanburg/Liganburh (571, ASC/Ethelwerd) might be our 'city of the legion' and Richborough. The 571 sites were hitherto supposed to be in Bedord/Buckinghamshire, but some doubt this. 3 of the 571 sites names match 3 battle sites of Arthur of the HB (Bassas, Legions, Guinnion), and from this and from other ASC entries it seems possible that they may match our sites in Kent?

(Some versions of Watling Street have Richborough (our 'city of the legion' ste) and Chester (traditional/orthodox 'city of the legion' candidate) at either end.)

[Caerleon in the west is maybe analogous to Richborough in the east?]

All our evidences are overwhelming that the 9 battle sites of Arthur of the HB of Nennius match the 9 Saxon Shore sites, and that the 'city of the legion' matches Richborough/Rutupi. However some viciously mean/nasty arch-critics sometimes demand that we have to also disprove others candidates and not just prove ours. There are alot of "possible" candidates for 'city of the legion' that others have hitherto suggested for the 'city of the legion' (including Chester, Caerleon, York, Carlisle, Exeter, Portchester, Richborough, Carhaix, Dumbarton, Trimontium). It is unreasonible for us to have to disprove them all, because there are too many. (Our sites proofs by its nature disproves the others anyway.) There are only 2 (or 3) major orthodox candidates versus ours: Caerleon, Chester, (York). "York was not ever called 'city of the legion'". York and "Legions" are both mentioned together separately (as distinct) in same Arthurian source(s).
Urbs Legionis of Arthur of the HB can not be Caerleon or Chester because (they don't match all the 21 identification details, and) because:
The 2 'Welsh Annals' synod of 'urbs legionum' "city of the legion" 601/602 and battle of 'caer legion' "city of the legion" 613/614 entries are clearly different sites.
The 'urbs legionis' "city of the legion" in the 12 battles is also different to those in Nennius' cities of Britain list (Cairlion/"Caerleon" & Cairligion/"Chester").
"Nennius" didn't say "on Usk".
"How Deva came to be the name of Chester or the Castra Legionis (whence the Welsh Caer Lleon) is not clear".
They can't even decide or prove which of the two (Chester or Caerleon) it is (and they say they are superior scholars to me) (though they seem to favour Chester).
"Caerleon on Usk" might imply an earlier Caerleon not on the Usk (not necessarily Chester)?
Was Caerleon called that before 800 ad?


vii. name/called CairLion.

Some versions of the 'city of the legion' part of the 12 battles of Arthur section of the HB of Nennius say "... the city of the legion, which (in British) is called Car Lion." The Car-Lion part is in some versions but not in other versions. How does this match our 'city of the legion' site Richborough/Rutupi? Either:

(1) this is only a late(r) gloss/addition and so can be ignored. (Though I have not been able to check yet whether the versions that don't have the Car-Lion part are older than the versions that do.)

(2) the Car-Lion may match that the Legio ii Augusta at Richborough was "from Caerleon" / "formerly at Caerleon".

viii. fought by Arthur/Britons.

All our evidence is overwhelming that the 9 battle sites of Arthur match the 9 Saxon Shore sites (in names/meanings, natures/details/geographies and numbers/order). However, the orthodox establishment still adamantly claim that the south-east quarter was too heavily Anglo-Saxon then. We can't yet totally prove archaeologically (or in non-"unreliable" records) that the south-east was not all Anglo-Saxon, and that Arthur & the Britons were there in Kent then. Some recent scholars are disputing the south-east all Anglo-Saxon claim, and recent sources admit that the true Saxon/Briton situation then is far from certain/clear. The dates of the 12 battles are also uncertain. We can only give some seeming possible evidences that we have found/collated so far that suggest that the south-east wasn't only all Saxon, and/or that suggest that there were some Britons there then at sometime:

- The 9 battle sites of Arthur certainly match the 9 SS sites in names/meanings, details/geographies/natures and numbers/order.
- "Arthur" fought the (West) Saxons who were mainly in the south-east quarter. (He is said to have fought Cerdic & Colgrin & Baldulph.)
- Traditional Arthurian stories/histories mention south/southeast/east places including: London, [Raculf/Riculf?], Chislehurst caves, Rutupi/Richborough (where "Gawain" died), Dover, Winchelsea, Gaul/France, North Sea, Kit's Coty, Canterbury?
Malory "moved Arthur to London".
The Modena Archivolt seems to show Dover lighthouse &/or castro?
One source locates Vortimer's cenotaph at Richborough.
- Arthurian/Welsh sources mention names that are possibly similar to Rutupi/red-top/Richborough &/or Reculver (including Rico/Ridoc/Richiden, Ricaradoch, the Round Table, Riculf/Raculf, Rocabarraigh, Liganburh?)
- There seem to be quite a few places in Welsh/Cornish/Northern that are analogous to our south-east battle sites (in names &/or geographies), e.g. Dumbarton is similar to Dover [& Guinnion].
- The Britons/Welsh weren't limited to Cornwall & Wales & North until after Dyrham (577) and "Chester" (ear 600s).
- Arthurian sources say Arthur drove the Saxons out of Britain.

"Mari Lwyd (St Mary) in Caerleon similar to Hoodening in Padstow (Petroc's, Cornwall), & in Kent, & in Cheshire." This links 3 'city of the legion' candidates of others and ours.

Wheeler's (& Deniker's) London-Colchester-St Albans triangle gap/salient (of Britons in Anglo-Saxon south-east quarter).
["Wurdesten speaks of the Britons leaving their ancestral land when the Saxons occupied it"?]
- Gildas says "neither to this day are our cities inhabited .. . forsaken & overthrown".

- Some place names in Kent are disputed as to whether Saxon or  British/Celtic origins. - Kent & Canterbury are Celtic names.
- "few/little or no Saxon cemetaries in Canterbury"
- the Medway river marked the boundary of Britons & Saxons (though at earlier date)?
- the British St Martin's church Canterbury?
- The Weald may have been like refuge for Britons.
[- (Uther &/or) "Arthur" could possibly be the pre-Augustine Christian "Ethelbert" of ASC?]

On the SS forts  "There has been no consensus amongst those who write about the transition from the Romans to the Anglo-Saxons."
The SS forts "present a number of archaeological & historical problems".
"it is insisted that they [Saxons] avoided the Roman towns & forts"?
"Anderida/Pevensey being taken by Aelle is the only record of a [Roman/SS] fort being taken by the Anglo-Saxons".
"British strategy seems to have been to allow Saxon landings and to then contain them, there."

"Even in Kent, an area of rich early Anglo-Saxon archaeology, the number of excavated settlements is fewer than expected. However in contrast the counties of Northamptonshire, Oxfordshire, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire are relative rich in early settlements."
"Kenneth Dark's argument for continuing British military and political power in the east rests on the very uneven distribution of Anglo-Saxon cemeteries and the proposition that large gaps in that distribution necessarily represent strong British polities which excluded Anglo-Saxon settlers by force."
"It is by no means impossible that some of the Kentish distinctions are based in part on Romano-British influence.... It is difficult in any other manner to account for the fact that Kent alone preserved a resemblance to its Roman past.... ... may hold a memory of pre-Saxon agricultural arrangements ... due to the presence of peasants of Romano-British descent...."
"... existence of another culture which was as early, much lower and quite different ... in north Kent and Surrey."

- Some suggest 2 groups of settlers [in Kent]: 1st Anglo-Saxon, 2nd Franks "who broke the dynasty of Kentish kings ... of which we hear no more after 512"?]

(The "Picts" of the later Liber Floridus version of St Omer is too long to discuss here. Suffice to say that either (1) we are wrong, or (2) St Omer is Wrong, or (3) the name "Picts" doesn't refer to the assumed Picts of north Scotland. We are certainly not wrong that the 9 battle sites of Arthur match the 9 Saxon Shore sites. St Omer could certainly be wrong. (Note: compare 'dux bellorum' (HB), 'dux Pictorum' (LF), 'dux britanniarum' (ND?).) It is a contradition that some sources say Arthur fought the Picts, some say he was Pictish. There is certainly evidences suggesting that "Picts" (and "Caledonian") can refer to other Britons. ....)

There are reasons for thinking that Arthur may possibly be Aurelius/Ambrosius who was Roman-blooded. The Romans were mainly in the south-east quarter of Britain. In contrast, the traditional/orthodox 'city of the legion' candidate Chester is in the unromanised region of Britain not in the Romanised region of Britain in the map "Post-Roman Britain (Anglo-Saxon Cemeteries) (based on Jones & Mattingly's Atlas of Roman Britain)".

Regarding the 'city of the legion' claimed candidate York of others, the "bishop Sanxo of York" (HRB) might imply that York was Saxon not British?

ix. fought against Saxons

Who was "(King) Arthur" fighting? Of the 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 people of Britian listed by early chroniclers (Picts, Britons, Scots/Irish, Saxons/English, (Romans/Latin,) (Welsh)), Arthur is supposed to have been (Roman &/or) British/Welsh (or "Pictish"), and he can only have been fighting either/both the Anglo-Saxons, and/or the Scots/Irish & Picts. It is said that the Saxons seem to have done their job well fighting the Scots & Picts.

Arthur is clearly said to have fought 12 battles (which includes the city of the legion) against the "Saxons". (Compare "Wurdesten speaks of the Britons leaving their ancestral land when the Saxons occupied it".) ["Not source before Geoff of Monmouth says that Arthur fought Scots/Picts"?]
 This does match our site Richborough's area.

"Saxon(s)" can mean either Anglo Saxons, or (West/South/East/Middle) Saxons (ie Wessex/Sussex/Essex/Middlesex). (Ethelwerd is reckoned to confound Saxons & Angles.)
Hengist's advisor Ceretic?
It is said that Collingwood said Nennius words specifically implied Saxons and specifically of Kentishmen.
The "Saxon Shore" (from Wash/Norfolk to Hampshire/Solent/Wight).
"Numerous Saxon cemetaries found at Sarre, Ash, Kingston"?
Orthodox Arthurian sources agree that the Anglo-Saxons were at that time mainly in the south-east quarter of England/Britain, and that the (West) Saxons were in the south of England/Britain.
Some think that Cerdicshore (1) of the ASC was at Great Yarmouth, which would have West Saxons ranging from Norfolk to Hampshire.
Geoff of Monmouth's HRB said the Saxons went from "Lincoln"/"Caledon" around to "Severn"/"Totness"/"Bath"/"south".
(West) Saxons versus "Ethelbert" of Kent at "Wimbledon" (in the ASC) has (West) Saxons not far from Kent. We have shown elsewhere here that 3 of the sites of the 571 ASC entry may match 3 our battle sites in Kent?

"From Germany" implies on the east coast [and maybe Saxon Shore].
"From every province" implies to every province (Angles, Jutes, Saxons).

For other locations candidates it has been pointed out that "there were no Saxons [at] Caerleon, none near Chester or in [the] North in Arthur's time [except Angles in Forth of Firth]" (Evans).

x. date (before Ida ["ca 547"], before Badon ["516/554"])

We can't yet be totally certain of the exact right date match for the battle of the 'city of the legion' with/in the history of Richborough/Rutupiae.

HB says the 12 battles of Arthur were down to time of Ida (who orthodox date ca 547), and the battle of the 'city of the legion' was before Badon ("516/554").
Arthur fought the (West) Saxons (Cerdic, Colgrin, Baldulph).

"who broke the dynasty of Kentish kings ... of which we hear no more after 512"?
"510-555 emigration of Angles & Frisians to the Continent".
"488-547 only landings of Saxons on the coast".
Gap between the 1st & 2nd Bretwaldas (Aelle of Sussex & Ceawlin of Wessex) c 491 - c 560?
No gains gap 519 - 552 in ASC?

The eclipse before the calends of Julius 540 might be connected with the battle of the 'city of the legion' (St Julius) and Richborough (Julius Caesar).

(Possible sequence:
3 Bassas/Reculver ~ Cerdiesford/Avene 519?
4 Celidon/Weald ~ Cerdicsleaga 527 or Calcedonensis 538?
5 Guinnion/Dover ~ Cerdic dies 534, or Martii 538 &  Martianus 538?
6 Legions/Richborough ~ Julius 540?)

Liganburh 571 may be a later Saxon re/taking of our 'city of the legion' site Richborough (we have already explained why above).

xi. is written in the HB of Nennius (which also has the Wonders of Britain in it).

How much evidence is there that "Nennius" or the writer of the HB (in which are the 12 battles / 9 battle sites of Arthur) or his source knew the Kent area (where we found 5 of the 9 battle sites of Arthur)?

The authorship and date of writing of the HB (in which the 12 battles of Arthur (including Bassas) are) is uncertainly disputed.

Orthodox sources claim that "Nennius" lived in Wales/West, but i haven't seen any serious proof of this. Asser mentioned that Nennius was reputed to have been at "Oxford". In Arthurian/Welsh "Oxford" might really be Reculver [Bassas] by the Wantsum-Stour.

Boso of Ridoc/Rico/Richiden/Rhydycheu/"Oxford" (11 Consuls, HRB).
Bassas [may mean "shallow"/"ford"] (12 battles, HB).
Swelling ford/shallows (Wonders, HB).
Episford/Ebissa (...).
[Bosphorus (analogous).]

Collingwood said Nennius' words imply Arthur was fighting specifically Kentishmen.
We first discovered that the 9 battle sites of Arthur in the HB of "Nennius" definitely match the 9 Saxon Shore sites. Later on we happened to also discover that the Wonders of Britain (which are also in the HB of "Nennius) also match the same 9 sites (and some of them are very stark matches). In hindsight it looks obvious that "Nennius" would write the Wonders about the same sites. Surely the fact that both the 9 battle sites and the Wonders match the 9 SS sites means that our case is pretty strong.

The Wonders of Britain which do or may match Richborough [city of the legion] are:
- Linn Liuan (ebbs, army, former rustic) seems to match the Ebbsfleet/Sandwich/Richborough [city of the legion] area. The 12 Monasteries list confirms that Lann Llieni is nearby "Leomister". There is also a Linn Liuan near Caerleon which also confirms the association. The fastness/dwellings of Dissethach in the Pa Gur maybe also links all 3 of Linn Liuan, city of the legion, and Richborough? Also may match "Gawain/Gwalchmai died/grave/skull at 9th wave Peryddon or Rutupi (or Dover)".
- The Returning Plank.
- Cruc Mawr matches the large cruciform platform at Richborough (combined with the christian cross).
[- Limpets of Ceoil may be oysters at Richborough or Reculver?]
- The Circling Rock/Mountain seems to be something at either Richborough [city of the legion] or Dover [Guinnion].
It doesn't seem to us coincidence that the 4 Wonders which we had found to seemingly certainly match Richborough/Rutupi [city of the legion] (nos 6, 11, 14, 22/29) also happen to be the 4 wonders that are omitted in the Irish HB.
See our separate Wonders paper and tables for more details.

Nennius said he used alot of sources which are similar to the ND. The ND has date 395/400s/420/420s/428, and the ND was at Speyer until 15th C/1542/16th C/before 1672. So it is possible that Nennius could have seen/known it.

xii. is "historia"
The title of the HB of Nennius says it is history ("historia"). We have indeed found real geographical matches for the 9 battle sites of Arthur (in names/meanings, natures/details/geographies and numbers/order), though we can't yet prove the final extra archaeological (or records) evidence of battles actually fought there then.

xiii. is in "(the island of) Britain"
The title and text of the Historia Britonum (in which Arthur's 12 battles / 9 battle sites occurs) says it is history of "(the island of) Britain". So Arthur's battles sites must be in Great Britain.
(The "Britannia Minor" of one source will have some explanation, perhaps it could mean a minor part of Britain like Kent/Weald/Downs?)

xiv. bishop Dubricius.

The city of the legion of Arthur's 12 battles in the HB of Nennius is connected with the (arch)bishop/saint "Dyfrig/Dubricius of (city of) Legions" in the HRB of Geoff of Monmouth. Death of Kentigern & Dyfrig/Dubricius 612 (AC) immediately before battle of Caerlegion/"Chester" 613 (AC)?
"Dubricius of Legions" implies and matches that the city of the legion [Richborough/Rutupi] is near Dolobellue, or Dubris/Dover/Dour [Guinnion], or Dorobernia/Durovernum (Canterbury), or Durobrivae (Rochester), [or DuoRig Habren?] (Confirmed by Dubriactus in Taliesin?)
Kentigern (aka Mungo) could connect with Kent &/or Catigern / 'Kit's Coty'?

York can't be the 'city of the legion'. They had different bishops (Dubricius and Sanxo).

xv. St Julius.

St Julius & St Aaron were 'legionum urbis cives' "citizens of the city of legions" in the DEB of Gildas and the EH of Bede and the HRB of Geoff of Monmouth. (A tradition also says they "were martyred in the Roman amphitheatre [of the 'city of the legion' candidate Chester supposedly] which is situated right next to / just outside the church and that there are links with the church / it was believed that their bodies were buried beneath the [St John Baptist] church itself".) The date of Julius & Aaron is the 1st of July. Our city of the legion site Richborough/Rutupi has matches for all this.

St Julius may connect with Julius Caesar who landed at/near Dover/Deal/Richborough. [Also possibly compare Julliberies grave?] We thus have an explanation for the origin of St Julius which other 'city of the legion' candidates don't have.

St Aaron might conect with Avalon/Avaron/Afallach and Afarnach which we show elsewhere may match Reculver [Bassas]. And/or Aaron might link with Androgeus/Andragius/Androgorius/Mandubracius (vs Caesar)?

Julius & Aaron were associated with St Alban. "St Alban('s)" matches Dover (Albion) & Guinnion (white). (One source says Albion is thought to come from 1st Christian/martyr St Alban/Albion. St Alban is connected with Germanus who was surely in the south-east.) The [grave of] martyr St Alban (283, 304, 429)  may also/alternatively be connected with the grave of Labienus (of Caesar's landing) and the grave of Gawain/Gwalchmai at Rutupi; And/or St Alban might be linked with Clodius Albinus? (There is also the later Albinus Abbot of St Augustine's, Canterbury?) Perhaps also compare Rutupiae built 277-285, and St Alban martyr 283?

Also associated with Julius & Aaron is St Amphibalus ("cloak"?) who might link with either Richborough (Nero? amphitheatre? amphibian invasion of Caesar/Claudius? Androgeus?), or with Dover.  (Amphibalus is also in Winchester, while the Arthurian "Winchester"/Guintonhi is Guinnion/Dover.)

There is an amphitheatre and church at Richborough/Rutupi. The "church of Julius" might be the building over the large cruciform platform which might be grave/cenotaph of Labienus?
The earliest/first christians/saints were surely in the south-east.

Some still adamantly claim the city of the legion is more likely Chester. However the traditional Julius and Aaron connection with Chester (amphitheatre/church) has been found to be weak (or no proof). Both of the traditional/orthodox 'city of the legion' candidates Chester & Caerleon have traditional Julius & Aaron claims, but Julius & Aaron can't be in two places at sametime.

xvi. inaccessable/deserted/waste:

"Gildas says that Christians are cut off from the martyr shrine of Julius and Aaron in the context of diuortium." "Gildas clearly states that this place [city of the legion] is unacessable to British people. If this was Chester it would hardly be unacessable."
"Gildas clearly was stating that the holy shrines in the East were out of reach and in territory controlled by Saxons. Roger of Wendover, in his Flores Historiarum, tells us that the shrine or church at St Albans was destroyed by pagan Anglo-Saxon invaders."
[Furthermore, Gildas also says "neither to this day are our cities inhabited .. . forsaken & overthrown".]

(This may also possibly connect with the 4 Wonders of Britain which we discovered to match Richborough [city of the legion] and which are all omitted in the Irish HB?)

This doesn't match the 2 main orthodox 'city of the legion' candidates Chester and Caerleon. (Though some sources call Chester "waste Chester" (rather than West Chester). It does match our 'city of the legion' site Richborough/Rutupi.

xvii. Arthur's capital.

The 'city of the legion' / '(city of) Legions' / "Caerleon" was : "Arthur's capital", “2nd Rome. … chief city of the isle of britain … priveleges & rank … principal Archbishop….”, and “loved & honored Caerleon on the Usk more than any other place”,  [and it is said that Caer Lleon and Jerusalem were built about the same time.]

Matches:

Rutupi/Richborough was "their primary station", "became the metropolis", "fleet which commanded the North Sea", "was of such celebrity that...", "was the station of the 2nd Augustan legion, under the count of the Saxon coast, a person of high distinction", "the primary station of the Romans in Britainnia...", "Watling Street proceeded from Richborough".
Richborough/Rutupi is one of the best preserved Roman sites in Britain (ref J Hawkes). (Thanet also had a name that is similar looking/sounding to "Rome"?)

Matches:

Gwensteri key to Lloegyr of Gwallawg in Taliesin.

xviii. Round Table was there.

Some traditional Arthurian sources say that the Round Table was at the 'city of the legion' / 'city of legions' / "Caerleon". The RT is traditionally connected with the amphitheatre of Caerleon, and is connected in [tradition or modern news] with the amphtheatre of Chester, and both of these cities are also 'city of the legion' candidates of others. Our 'city of the legion' site Richborough/Rutupi has a seeming match for the RT.

The round table may possibly match the amphitheatre at Richborough, which is seen in aerial photo as a large flat circle feature  in farm fields neighbouring the Richborough fort and which described in book as being "visible as a hummock in the grass 5 minutes walks from the main site".
[The RT might also/alternatively connect with the name of Rutupi meaning "red top"? (Though the red refers to salt.)]

(Orthodox academic Arthurians dismiss the Round Table as an invention of Wace because it appears that the RT is first mentioned by Wace. However, they can not prove that Wace made it up, and we have found that the RT may possibly be connected with some earlier things like the Circling Rock/Mountain of the Wonders of Britain, plus the coincidental connection with the amphitheatres is possibly interesting. The RT is variously either a (stationary or moving) table-like item, or a ... structure/building, or an amphitheatre, or a circle of [12] people, or a tournament event.)

The Round Table may be something at either/both the 'city of the legion'/Richborough and/or 'castellum Guinnion'/Dover.
Other traditional Arthurian/Welsh sources locate the Round Table at the "castle of Snowdon/Isneldone" or "castle of Windsor" which matches castellum Guinnion and Dover.

The 'circling rock/mountain' of the Wonders may match the 'round table' (which "rotates like the world"), and the 'circling rock/mountain' may match something at Dover [Guinnion] and/or at Richborough [city of the legion]. (We found that the Irish HB omits the 4 wonders (including the 'circling rock/mountain') which we had connected with Richborough/'city of the legion'.)

ixx. not far from Isneldone/Snowdon.

Arthur's 6th battle site the 'city of the legion' is also called Cair Lion in some versions of the HB of Nennius. The city of the legion is interchanged with "Caerleon" in some traditional Arthurian/Welsh sources. In an Arthurian source Cuerlion is not far from the castle of Isneldone/Snowdon. This can't be Caerleon on Usk in South Wales and Snowdon in North Wales as they are not all that close. However this could match our 9 battle sites in the Saxon Shore scenario. The castle of Snowdon ("snow hill") matches castellum Guinnion ("white") and Dover/Albion (white cliffs, chalk Downs), and is not far from our 'city of the legion' at Richborough. (There is also a Snowdown in Kent not far from Dover & Richborough. "Snowdon West" of some Arthurian sources implies a Snowdon east? Some versions of Watling Street have Dover at one end, and Segontium near Snowdon at the other end.) The "3 renowned cities" of a Snowdon source may match our Richborough ['city of the legion'], Dover [Guinnion] and Reculver [Bassas] (or else the Rutupiae, London and Daruernum (Canterbury) of Ptolemy?)

xx. on the banks of a river like the Usk(e)

The 'city of the legion' or '(city of) legions' is interchanged with "Caerleon (upon Usk)" in & between some traditional Arthurian sources. This may imply that the city of the legion was on a river like the "Usk(e). Our 'city of the legion' site Richborough/Rutupi is on the river Stour, which may match "upon Usk(e)". (We can't prove yet whether the Britions called the Stour "Usk(e)" (or used "Usk(e)" for the Stour), or whether it is just an analogous match.)

xxi. Tremounus.

The 'city of the legion' of the HB of Nennius is connected with 'Tremounus of Legions' of the HRB of Geoff of Monmouth. Adam Ardrey connects the city of the legion with Trimontium (~ Melrose/Meilros) which was the capital of Scotland during the Roman occupation in the 1st & 2nd centuries. The 9 battle sites definitely match the 9 Saxon Shore forts (and not sites in Scotland) though, so the Scottish Trimontium can only be an analogous namesake or a cleverly tied-in connection. We have a possible match for Tremounus at our 'city of the legion' site Richborough/Rutupi with either:
- Triputienses of German inscriptions refering to Rutupiae/Rhutupian/Rhutupine.
- Trinovantum "London" &/or the Trinovantes not far from Richborough/Kent.
- Tremounus/Trimontium could connect with either Cruc Mawr [at Richborough], or with the Circling Rock/Mountain (turns 3 times) [at either Richborough or Dover].
Stow/Wedale 6 miles west of Meilros is maybe analogous to Reculver # miles nw of Richborough [city of the legion].

Melrose/Meilros (meaning "yellow" / "bare headland/promontory/moor(land)" / "wood") & Rhos of Arthurian/Welsh connect with our n.e. Kent area. "Wedale 6 miles west of Meilros" may be analogous to Reculver # miles n.w. of Richborough?

xxii. David & Merlin connections.

David is archbishop of (city of) Legions at Menevia in the HRB. Another source says "David bishop of Merlin's town Caerleon"?

The 'city of the legion' / '(city of) Legions' / "Caerleon" is Richborough/Rutupi (legio ii Augusta) in Kent in the South-East. Merlin and David both have connections with our south-east area.

[Will re-add in here the list of David connections and list of Merlin connections when i am able to.]

xxiii. Augustine, Germanus, Paulinus connections.

The "city of the Legion" (602/607 AC) is connected with St Augustine synod at "Chester" / "Augustine's Ac/Oak on borders of the Wiccii & West Saxons" (603, Bede). This seems dubious to me. Augustine is connected with the Ebbsfleet area near our 'city of the legion' site Richborough, and he probably did not reach as far north & west as Chester (though Ethelbert did extend his sphere to Humber).  (There might possibly also be a conflation of Augustine and legio ii Augusta of Richborough, and/or Augusta/London?)

St Pol/Paulinus Aurelianus/Uurmonocus de Leon in Breton tradition seems to imply a connection of the 'city of the legion' with Paulinus. (Zoetropo's 'city of the legion' candidate is Carhaix of the Prince of Leon in Brittany. Gwenedeg/Vannes, Leon, and Tregor of Breton seem analogous to Guinnion, Legions and Tribruit?) This might have a match with our 'city of the legion' site Richborough. Paulinus was in Northumbria but was also in Kent. (There is also the Pavloc of Sutton Hoo in Suffolk?)

Germanus' battle was supposedly at Maes Garmon near Mold near the traditional/orthodox 'city of the legion' candidate Chester. This may possibly mean that the 'city of the legion' is closely connected with Germanus? The Maes Garmon location is very dubious. Germanus was surely more likely in the south-east. It is interesting that Germanus has link with St Alban who can only be in the Dover (Albion) & Downs area.

xxiv. Jerusalem.

Caer Lleon and "Jerusalem" were built about the same time (ref '24 kings & 33 cities') implying that either it is "Jerusalem" or it was close to a "Jerusalem" site. It appears that "Jerusalem" is 'Uerolamiensem/Verulam' / "St Alban's" (Gildas) which is probably Dover (Albion) and Guinnion ("white").

[xxv. Bangor?]

The traditional/orthodox 'city of the legion' candidate Chester is "just down the road from Bangor". It is possible that this may be analogous to the real 'city of the legion' which is certainly Richborough/Rutupiae. Bangor and abbey may possibly analogously match Reculver and its monastery-church which we connect with Arthur's grave and Avalon (see chapter on battle site of Bassas/Reculver).

xxvi. had a church or churches, or a minster (and/or a monastery?).

The 'city of the legion' had a church (of St Julius).
The city of Lions/Lyonesse had "140 churches".
Leominister of the 12 Monasteries list seems to analogously match the 'city of the legion' of the 12 battles of Arthur.
Camelot had a church of St Stephen, and we show elsewhere that Camelot seems to match our 'city of the legion' site Richborough. ("Many towered Camelot" is maybe similar to 140 churches of Lyonesse?)

"there is evidence of a large Roman population here [Richborough] in the early 5th century, some of them worshipping in the Early Christian church discovered in a corner of the fort."
"The church [at Richborough/Rutupi] was probably built at the end of the 4th century or at the beginning of the 5th century."
Though the church of Julius/Stephen might be the building over the large cruciform platform (which might be grave of Laberius/Labienus)? Laberius might have been corresponded with Stephen the first christian martyr?

[xxvii. at land's end, by island]

As we already said in detail vi., the 'city of Lions/Lyones/Lyonesse' "between Land's End / Cornwall and Scilly"  in the far south-west corner is analogously similar to our 'city of the legion' site Richborough/Rutupi in the Wantsum-Stour area between Kent and Thanet in the far south-east corner (and the first station in itinerary of Britain). (Another 'city of the legion' candidate of someone else is Carhaix which is in Finistere (Land's End, Penn-ar-Bed).)

xxviii. indirect correspondence of the 'city of the legion' and Richborough/Rutupi via other intermediate 3rd sources synonymous or analogous places (/) names.

Dissecthach of the Pa Gur matches both the 'city of the legion' of the HB and Richborough of the SS/ND.
Matches between Dissethach & city of the legion:
Dissethach 5th of 9 matches 'city of the legion' 6th of 9. Dwellings matches city (& legion).
Matches between Dissethach & Richborough/Rutupi:
Both 5th of 9. Fastness of Dissethach fits the Richborough/Ebbesfleet area. Both match the 'city of the legion'.

Gwensteri of Taliesin matches both  matches both the 'city of the legion' of the HB and Richborough of the SS/ND.
Matches between Gwensteri and Richborough/Rutupi:
Gwensteri key to Lloegyr matches Richborough. Both have white.

-----
"Countries that destroy their past deserve no future".
(& governments that force their poison fluoridated (etc) tap water on their disadvantage citizens water deserve no respect.)

You say:  (5th) Guinnion/[Badon]=(6th) Dover/Dubris (= (6th) Eidyn) I don't know what that means, it short hand for something, but you need to spell it out better, and then convert into shorthand.  I think I get that Guinnion is the same (name?) as Badon, and Dover is the same as Dubris, and maybe one 6th is "equal to' another 6th,  and the 5th is equal to the 6th???

(12 battles =) 9 battle sites of Arthur in Historia Britonum of Nennius,
matches
9 Saxon Shore sites from Great Yarmouth to Portsmouth,
matches
9 battles sites of Arthur in the 'Pa Gur'.

Guinnion the (8th battle =) 5th battle site of Arthur in the HB of Nennius
(matches
Badon in Annales Cambriae / Welsh Annals)
matches
Dover/Dubris/Braddon the 6th Saxon Shore site
matches
Mt Eidyn (Eidyn 2) the 6th battle site of Arthur in the PaGur.

Guinnion/*Alborum is "white". Guinnion against Saxons/pagans. Guinnion 5th of 9. Guinnion where Arthur bore cross/Mary on shoulders.
(Badon where Arthur bore cross/Mary on shoulders.)
Dover is white. Dover has place Braddon, Dover has place Edinburgh Hill. DOver has cliffs/heights/downs. Dover 6th of 9.
Eidyn is a (bald) mount. Eidyn against dog-heads. Eidyn 6th of 9.

The last 2 posts (1 post in 2 parts) gives all these and more matches evidences details.