Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The Hidden History of Poland

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10111
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Hidden History of Poland
    Posted: 15-Sep-2016 at 09:10

http://www.ancient-origins.net/history/hidden-story-poland-what-happened-forgotten-kingdom-lechia-006648
http://www.ancient-origins.net/history/hidden-story-poland-what-happened-forgotten-kingdom-lechia-006648

Edited by medenaywe - 16-Sep-2016 at 01:06
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2016 at 18:27
And unlike a mysterious, legendary, or mythic islands such as Thompson or Thule, Brasil etc... the historical acceptation and documentation of its existence is well founded. 
 
That it remains a subject of academic indifference is as much a factor of arrogance coupled to the eradication of Polish culture and tradition by its one time conquering neighbors.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2016 at 19:11
Most of Polish early history was forgotten because of Catholic Church. It were monks - medieval chroniclers - who decided what is worth to remember from early history of Poland and what should be forgotten.

The most interesting thing is, and most of Polish people today have no idea about it, that for half of known Polish history, Polish people considered themselves Vandals and also the neighbours of Poles were calling them Vandals.

Mieszko I (and his name is a modern invention) - the first recorded by history ruler of Poland have never titled himself Dux Polonorum - the duke of Poland. However German chronicler Adam of Bremen did write in his chronicle that in year 992 died Misica dux Vandalorum. And he wasnt the first ruler of his country but 15th!

Even more interesting is the case of his son Bolesław Chrobry (in english Boleslav the Brave) first christian ruler to become official european king. He was crowned for king once in year 1000 AD by German emperor Otto III and second time by archbishop of Gniezno with the permission of pope in year 1025. All historians call him the first crowned king of Poland. However, when in the half of 14th century his descendant king Casimir the Great ordered to exhume the grave of king Boleslav they found on stone table the inscription: REGNUM SCLAVORUM, GOTHORUM SIVE POLONORUM. So Boleslav didnt use title of king of Poland but instead he titled himself "King of Slavs, Goths and Poles". Who were the Poles if they were neither Slavs nor Goths and were listed as separate people? Maybe they were Sarmatians who lived on the territory of Poland together with Vandals before some of them left their land to attack Rome, Spain and finaly to found Vandalo-Sarmatian kingdom in Roman north Africa?

Another interesting fact which most of modern historians is afraid to comment is the titulature of Polish kings. Until the end of XVII century all Polish kings used the title of "kings of Goths and Vandals".


For example:

king Władysław IV (9 June 1595 – 20 May 1648)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_IV_Vasa#Royal_titles

In Latin: "Vladislaus Quartus Dei gratia rex Poloniae, magnus dux Lithuaniae, Russiae, Prussiae, Masoviae, Samogitiae, Livoniaeque, necnon Suecorum, Gothorum Vandalorumque haereditarius rex, electus magnus dux Moschoviae."

In English: "Władysław IV, by grace of God the King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania, Ruthenia, Prussia, Masovia, Samogitia, Livonia, and King of the Swedes, hereditary king of Goths and Vandals, elected Grand Duke of Muscovy."

king John II Casimir (22 March 1609 – 16 December 1672)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_II_Casimir_Vasa#Royal_titles

in Latin: Ioannes Casimirus, Dei Gratia rex Poloniae, magnus dux Lithuaniae, Russie, Prussiae, Masoviae, Samogitiae, Livoniae, Smolenscie, Severiae, Czernichoviaeque; nec non-Suecorum, Gothorum, Vandalorumque haereditarius rex, etc.

English translation: John Casimir, by God's grace King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania, Ruthenia, Prussia, Masovia, Samogitia, Livonia, Smolensk, Severia and, Chernihiv; and also hereditary King of the Swedes, Goths and Vandals.

There are many well known medieval sources which call medieval Poles - Vandals.


English bishop Gervase of Tilbury(12th/13th century) - In Slavic studies is best known for assertion (in a note written – probably – by Gervase in one of the manuscripts) that Poles were Vandals "Poles used to call themself Vandals and others call them Vandals"
Farther he wrote in "Otla Imperialia":
“Between the Hungarian Alps and the ocean is Poland, the name Poland being the equivalent of Campania in their language. [It is known as the land of the Vandals, from the river Vandal which runs through it; I learned this from the inhabitants themselves.] Touching on Poland at one end is Russia, otherwise known as Ruthenia,
In England, near the diocese of Ely, there is a town called Cambridge. In its territory, not far from the town, is a place which they call Wandlebury, because the Vandals pitched camp there when they were laying waster whole areas of Britain, cruelly slaughtering the Christians. "


German chronicler Gerhard of Augsburg (10th century) wrote in his chronicle that in year 992 there died “Misica dux Vandalorum“ referring to Mieszko I of Poland.

Adam of Bremen (11th century): "Slavania (Slavic lands), the biggest from Germanic countries, is inhabited by Winnils, who were formerly called Vandals. It is supposed to be bigger than our Saxony, especially when it would include Bohemians and Polans across the Oder, since they are no different in customs and language".

Polish chronicler Wincenty Kadlubek (12th century) mentions, Wanda/Vanda the princess who was the daughter of Krak;

Polish chronicle so called Dzierzwa Chronicle(14th century) puts Vandalus in the family tree of the first Poles;

Greater Poland Chronicle (13th century) name Vistula the River Vandalus after over mentioned Wanda/Vanda

On the original column of Sigismund III Vasa in Warsaw was written that it was 44th king of Vandals. If Sigismundus III was 44th king then Boleslaw the Brave wasnt the first king of Poland but indeed 16th king of Vandals.

In Poland we have just celebrated 1050th anniversary of the Baptism of Poland. During first over 500 years of our history we called ourselves Vandals. In the begining of XVI century we started to call ourselves Sarmatians. In the 19th century when our country didnt exist as independent state, we started to call ourselves Polish people.

However the old tales from pre-christian times says that first king of our country was named Lech and some nations called us also Lechites. This name of our country and people is still used in Hungary and until 20th century was used in Turkey, in Iran and till 18th century in Russia.

In the old Poland was also popular name Wyszomir, written in latin Visimar, Visimirus. He was a hero forgotten by written christian history who sailed to Denmark and plundered it, who later on the area of modern day eastern Germany founded the city named in slavic language Wyszomierz, today Wismar in Germany, Mecklenburg, old slavic settlement.

But we also know that this name which was common in western slavic tribes was many centuries earlier the name of king of Vandals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisimar

"Wisimar or Visimar (?-335) was a Vandal ruler of the Hasdingi tribe during the 4th century.....

From history we known that both Vandals and Sarmatians lived on the territory of Poland. However from modern genetic studies we also know that during last 3000 years people who lived on the territory of Poland were moreless the same as those who live there now. Several waves of migrants came to Poland and several waves left it but looks like both the invaders and migrants were too few to change genetic history of the whole population.

Maybe its similar case like with the Avars. Once they had a mighty empire in the central eastern Europe. Joined Slavic-Avar armies were attacking Byzantine Empire, Frankish Empire and Italy. One slavic language became so called lingua-franca of their empire. And after few hundrieds years they just dissapeared from history, without any significant foreign invasions or conquests, they simply assimilated with the rest of people and didnt even had separate language. Who knows, maybe the same happend on the territory of Poland before the 10th century when several different tribes merged into one new nation. First known from chronicles Polish duke titled himself Dux Vandalorum, his son founded european kingdom which named Kingdom of Slavs, Goths and Poles. But their descedants were using the title of kings of Poland while somewhere far, in the end of their titulature until end of XVII century just remained strange sounding titles of "hereditary kings of Goths and Vandals".






Edited by Mosquito - 18-Sep-2016 at 19:19
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2016 at 19:27
The column of king Sigismundus III, built by his son king Vladislav IV In the first half of 17th century. It was destroyed by Germans during WW2 and rebuild after the war. On the original was copper table on which was latin inscription that it was king of Poland and 44th king of Vandals. If he was 44th, it means that first Polish ruler whom German chroniclers called "Misica Dux Vandalorum" wasnt really first but 15th.

"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10111
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2016 at 09:39
In US the term Vandal is used to describe wanton and mindless destruction.
Line from Bob Dylan song-

"The pump don't work cause the Vandals took the handle"


"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
Mosquito View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 05-Aug-2004
Location: Sarmatia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2537
  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2016 at 09:49
Originally posted by red clay

In US the term Vandal is used to describe wanton and mindless destruction.
Line from Bob Dylan song-

"The pump don't work cause the Vandals took the handle"


The name of Vandals became pejorative in the 18th century, when the scholars of enlightment give this word such meaning, describing the sack of Rome by joined Vandal/Alan army and their march to Spain and next to North Africa. Many of those writers from times of enlightment blamed Vandals for the final fell of Rome.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(455)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandalism


"The Vandals may not have been any more destructive than other invaders of ancient times, but they did inspire British poet John Dryden to write, Till Goths, and Vandals, a rude Northern race, Did all the matchless Monuments deface (1694). However, the Vandals did intentionally damage statues, which may be why their name is associated with the vandalism of art. The term Vandalisme was coined in 1794 by Henri Grégoire, bishop of Blois, to describe the destruction of artwork following the French Revolution. The term was quickly adopted across Europe. This new use of the term was important in colouring the perception of the Vandals from later Late Antiquity, popularising the pre-existing idea that they were a barbaric group with a taste for destruction.[2]

Historically, vandalism has been justified by painter Gustave Courbet as destruction of monuments symbolizing "war and conquest". Therefore, it is often done as an expression of contempt, creativity, or both. Gustave Courbet's attempt, during the 1871 Paris Commune, to dismantle the Vendôme column, a symbol of the past Napoleon III authoritarian Empire, was one of the most celebrated events of vandalism. Nietzsche himself would meditate after the Commune on the "fight against culture", taking as example the intentional burning of the Tuileries Palace on May 23, 1871. "The criminal fight against culture is only the reverse side of a criminal culture" wrote Klossowski after quoting Nietzsche."

Edited by Mosquito - 19-Sep-2016 at 13:55
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.