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encounter between chinese immigrant and native ame

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  Quote hama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: encounter between chinese immigrant and native ame
    Posted: 30-May-2018 at 17:40
Originally posted by tommy

You know, in the historical record of 3 century China(The records of the Three kingdoms), we found an Ethnic group, that was called 挹婁(yìlóu), they lived in North East Asia, using canoe ,living in a underground house, using poison arrow to shoot, and raising pig and deer, they were brave and strong, always fought with other neighbors, and later they disappeared in the Chinese records, I just wonder, were they the ancestors, of modern day Inuit people, the sound was quite similar, since Inuit people moved to North America in 1000 Ads, at that time, North east Asia was very unstable, Kitan people destroyed the Kingdom OF BoHai, might create a wave of migration, pushing YILOU people moved to bering strait and eventually North America.


I don't know anything about your "yilou" people, but I do know there are people from the Eskimo-language family living on the Asian side of the Arctic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Yupik

Arctic peoples from North America and Siberia, as well as Aleutian islanders, did have some limited contact with each other from what I've read. For example the book 'Native North American Armor, Shields, and Fortifications' by David E. Jones says that in the early 1800s there were Alaskan Inuit trading along the Kolyma River in Siberia. The book also cites another source which states that:

"Siberians and Alaskans visited each other across the strait - probably not often and sometimes with war in mind, but they did not live in the isolation often attributed to them. From 2,300-foot Cape Mountain behind Wales [Alaska], Siberia's coastal hills loom high above the horizon and the Diomede Islands appear to ride like rocky whales in a glassy sea on a calm, sunny day. After the umiak [open row boat] was invented, the strait became an intercontinental highway, its coastal fringes occupied by people who had more or less the same way of life."

Originally posted by ipwinner

If we want to suggest some connections, the connections could only be in the genes - very remotely.  We don't see any slightest evidence about the cultural similarity between these two ethnic communties... 

I agree. Personally I don't consider myself or my ancestors to have anything to do with Chinese people, and neither do most Native-Americans from my experience. I still find Chinese history to be interesting and I've had loads of Chinese friends, but to say we're some sort of long-lost cousins doesn't fly with me.

By the way, if we're on the subject of Asians and Native-Americans, there is an interesting story about a half-Chinook man who traveled to Japan in the 19th century and became one of the first English teachers of the modern era there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranald_MacDonald

His Chinook ancestors had trading connections with the Nez Perce and other Columbia Plateau people via the Columbia River.


Edited by hama - 30-May-2018 at 17:41
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2018 at 22:02
There are some suggestions that even European hunters and gathers would move through the ice, and migrating to America, during the ice age
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2018 at 10:08
Originally posted by ipwinner

I am from China. The suggestions about the connections between Chinese and native Americans might not be well grounded. If the native Americans were indeed the ancient Asians who migrated there, that could only be during the ice age which was about 12K years ago, when the earliest civilization of China hadn't really formed yet. If we want to suggest some connections, the connections could only be in the genes - very remotely.  We don't see any slightest evidence about the cultural similarity between these two ethnic communties... 


Actually the Ice Age was ending 12K. The IA lasted for some 20,000 years, it's now known that folks moved along the Ice.

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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2018 at 21:25
Today, 'Chinese" is not only referring to Hans, but to other ethnic minority, and the culture, ae well as Dna, of the Native American are so similar to those Ethnic minority of North East China, for example, both the ethnic minority group of North East China, as well as some Native American tribes, would set up and live in a kind of round shaped camp, (Tipi). Also they both share a kind of Shmanism
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2018 at 21:23
Your word" Chinese. actually only referring to Hans people, but modern Chinese would also include those ethnic minority, and the culture ,and Dna of modern Native American, in some parts, are so similar to the culture and Dna of come Chinese ethnic minority, for example , some Native American, as well as some Ethnic minority group of North East China, would both live in those round shaped camp, which Native American would call it " Tipi"
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  Quote ipwinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2018 at 23:41
I am from China. The suggestions about the connections between Chinese and native Americans might not be well grounded. If the native Americans were indeed the ancient Asians who migrated there, that could only be during the ice age which was about 12K years ago, when the earliest civilization of China hadn't really formed yet. If we want to suggest some connections, the connections could only be in the genes - very remotely.  We don't see any slightest evidence about the cultural similarity between these two ethnic communties... 
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2018 at 21:36
You know, in the historical record of 3 century China(The records of the Three kingdoms), we found an Ethnic group, that was called 挹婁(yìlóu), they lived in North East Asia, using canoe ,living in a underground house, using poison arrow to shoot, and raising pig and deer, they were brave and strong, always fought with other neighbors, and later they disappeared in the Chinese records, I just wonder, were they the ancestors, of modern day Inuit people, the sound was quite similar, since Inuit people moved to North America in 1000 Ads, at that time, North east Asia was very unstable, Kitan people destroyed the Kingdom OF BoHai, might create a wave of migration, pushing YILOU people moved to bering strait and eventually North America.
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  Quote hama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2018 at 19:40
No worries tommy, glad you found it useful.
Re: connections between Chinese and Native-Americans, I'm not so sure about that. I'm willing to accept the theory about migration via an ice-age land bridge from Asia to North America, but whether that means there's any direct link between modern Chinese and my ancestors is doubtful for me. That's more genetics anyway, so not really my area of interest. In my view our cultures and languages are quite different, but that isn't a bad thing. There's no harm in celebrating the uniqueness of your own ancestors while learning from other nations. :)

If you're interested in some historical relations between China and North America though, I'd really recommend you read up on the Maritime Fur Trade of the late 18th/early 19th century. One thing I find interesting is how some of the Chinese goods brought to North America through that trade ended up being used by local indigenous nations. For example, here are some photos of Tlingit armour that used Chinese coins brought through the trade networks:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/ae/f6/98aef6ee44b13b39a1576d79663dcacf.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7245/7003500356_3db9cfb861_b.jpg

http://primaltrek.com/tlingitbodyarmor1.jpg


Edited by hama - 17-Mar-2018 at 20:13
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2018 at 01:08
Thank you

welcome to the forum

your information is so valuable

Now a day in China, more and more people( especially the intellectual), recognized the cultural ,historical and ethnical connection between chinese and native American, in hong kong, I encountered a street musician, who came from Peru, he was the descendent of the great Inca empire, and he also recognized the connection between Chinese and the native people
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  Quote hama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2017 at 11:04
For anyone interested, I came across two sources which seem to be very relevant to this subject. Haven't had the chance to read them fully yet, but look good from the previews:

“They Looked Askance”: American Indians and Chinese in the Nineteenth Century U.S. West by Jordan Hua (it looks like his thesis).

And

Horizontal Inter-Ethnic Relations: Chinese and American Indians in the Nineteenth-Century American West by Daniel Liestman.
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  Quote hama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2017 at 12:53
Thanks for the welcome.
By the way just thought I'd add that the word for Chinese people in Nez Perce language is "célmen." You can see it on the photo of the monument at the Deep Creek massacre site. I believe it comes from the English term "chinamen", if you say it in Nez Perce the word sounds a bit similar. However it's not a derogatory term in Nez Perce, it was just probably picked up from American English because, before the 19th century, Nez Perce didn't really know about China, and they heard the word being used for Chinese in America.


Edited by hama - 06-Apr-2017 at 12:55
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2017 at 12:48
Those are chapters of our history that's been ignored.

Welcome to the forum.
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  Quote hama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2017 at 11:49
Nei ho Tommy. Smile

I can't speak for all tribes, as America is a big place with a lot of different cultures each with their own histories (like Asia). However, I'm of Nez Perce heritage and there were plenty of Chinese immigrants around our homeland during the 19th-20th century. They came as miners, traders, merchants, and labourers, among other jobs. I think our interaction with them was definitely less than with the whites, but here are a couple examples I know:

During the Nez Perce War in 1877, the people of Chief Joseph's band and a few others were fleeing on a long trek toward Canada to try and escape the US Government, who was attempting to force them on to a reservation.

There was one incident during this war known as Fort Fizzle, which you can read about here: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Fizzle_(Montana)#The_Army_and_the_Nez_Perce)
In this incident, Looking Glass (a famous Nez Perce leader) was trying to negotiate with US soldiers for safe passage for his people. The US authorities wanted the Nez Perce to surrender all their guns. Looking Glass is quoted as having said "When a Chinaman travels, he carries no arms. Do you think I am a Chinaman?" This comment was meant to show the white authorities that he and the other Nez Perce were not willing to give up their guns and travel around unarmed. They were traveling through wilderness in to buffalo hunting country and it would have been very dangerous for them to go without any guns for protection.

Also during the Nez Perce War, there was one incident in August, 1877 at Birch Creek in Idaho. A group of Nez Perce warriors met a group of teamsters hauling whiskey and other supplies. The teamsters were white along with a couple Chinese workers. This meeting was shortly after the Battle of Big Hole, where many Nez Perce (including women and children) had been killed by US Army troops. Because of this, some of the Nez Perce warriors were hot-tempered and wanted to take revenge on any whites they could find. They got a hold of some whiskey from the teamsters, and after getting drunk they got very violent and attacked and killed five of the white teamsters, however they let the two Chinese workers go free, and one other white teamster escaped.
That incident led to a fight within the Nez Perce bands, between the warriors who had killed the whites and some other Nez Perce who were trying to prevent needless violence. One famous fighter from the Battle of Big Hole (named Ketalkpoosmin) was killed during this argument. The Nez Perce leaders destroyed the rest of the whiskey to prevent any more violence.

Also, there was an incident near the Snake River (in Nez Perce homeland) called the Chinese Massacre at Deep Creek, which happened in 1887. A group of Chinese miners were slaughtered by a group of local white men. There is now a monument there about the incident, and is written in English, Chinese, and Nez Perce. No Nez Perce people were involved in this incident, but I thought I'd mention it since it occurred in our territory and the monument is partly in our language. You can read about the massacre here: https://oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/chinese_massacre_at_deep_creek/#.WOZYrI7avBI

That's all I know offhand about the Chinese in Nez Perce territory. If I find any other information I'll let you know. :)


Edited by hama - 06-Apr-2017 at 11:53
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2016 at 03:31
sorry, make a spelling mistake , the second line" American west" because I am so exciting when i am discussing this topic.
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2016 at 03:30
actually, did the two group encounter and make connection , during the 19 century

the main destination of the Chinese immigrants was the maerican west, and they worked in mines, railroad, or farms and ranches, so , they wpuld encounter the native American, but I could not find much information on this situation

I knew that in the mid 19 century, a group of Chinese went to western Canada, from hong Kong, and thier ship was wrecked, and they were enslaved by a group of Nativeb American, but only a short period of time, they were resuced by the royal rangers.

Actually, Chinese and native American were close realtives, we share the same ethnic root, in the frozen siberia, during ice age, from 20 century onward, more and more educated Chinese realized this, and what was the Native American 's opinion and View on Chinese/

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