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Topic ClosedTurkish Creation myths and Korea

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JiNanRen View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkish Creation myths and Korea
    Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 21:10
Does the words Tian/Tangri/Tengri have a single origin? The reverence for Tian was first embraced in the Zhou dynasty, so is it possible that the Zhou people originated from Central Asia.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 20:08
Still waiting for Christian shamanism...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 20:37
Originally posted by nagaeyari

Still waiting for Christian shamanism...


Some Latin American peoples still worship Shamanistic gods, but they've long since replaced the orignal images and names with those of saints.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 10:59

Originally posted by JiNanRen

Does the words Tian/Tangri/Tengri have a single origin? The reverence for Tian was first embraced in the Zhou dynasty, so is it possible that the Zhou people originated from Central Asia.

 

 NO

Turkistan is a door to two worlds,
Turkistan is a cradle of the Turks,
Living in beautiful Turkistan
Is Tengri's blessing to the Turks.

FREEDOM FOR EASTERN TURKISTAN
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2005 at 04:52
the only thing i can think of Kara Qumlum is that they might be refer to black clouds or black fog.I don't why but it is the second thing (after kum-sand) come to mind
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 04:14
According to the MONGOLIAN SECRET HISTORY, it says that around 1000 AC some group of Mongolians went to the Middle East and settled down over there, and when the MONGOLs came to Middle East after 250 years, The Mongolians who went to middle east before, their face, culture and the name of the tribe had been already changed.

The Mongols didn't know that those were Mongolians, and fought with them, got victory.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 04:24
Now they call themselves Iran, Iraq, Afganistan, Turkey, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Turkistan etc... Middle east countries...

Originaly, they originated from the Mongols... but not 100%... some mix, obviously...


Edited by JaGaa
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 04:27
hey, Tengri means Sky in old mongolian language... but i don't mean that it's mongolian word, i'm just helping you guys to find out...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 09:36
Tengri/tanri i is god in Turkish.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 11:31
Check it out! And you'll know!

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/t/tengri.html
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 03:23
Tangri is exactly 'sky' or 'heavens'; and when we use Tangri to worship, we usualy refer to the God of Tangri (sky). Thanks to Jagga... nice piece of informations... take care...
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 04:43

I would just like to say on the Christian Shamanism, that the worshipping of icons, taking food to an ancestor's grave isn't shamanism. Shamanism is when a community has a central leader(atleast spiritual) who can communicate with spirits and with them cure illnesses and predict the future etc. This is what Wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 08:03
Gok_turk.. if you look at the words.. Tanri/Tangri/Tengri means god, or sky.. but when talking about the 'sky god', they usually use Kok, Gok.. like in your name. But when its used in other context its used like the words 'heaven/s above'
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 11:51
Well, Baracuda, in Turkmen and Central Asian dialects, when you refer to to 'Sky God', we say 'Gok Tangri' or 'Kok Tangri', right; but they were comparing Anatolian Turkish and the Turkic observed in Orkhun Inscriptions. In Istanbul Turkchesi as your mother tongue (I guess; is it your mother tongue), they say simply 'Tanri' without any 'gok' or 'kok'. We were both right; just a confusion..
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 16:04
I have a few mother tongues due to odd circumstances.. so I wont even go into it, but yes turkish is one of them.. In turkish used in Turkey, the words tanri is used with the same meaning as "god" in english or "allah", (although when one uses it, it really doesnt quite give the same meaning to the word as it sounds more heathen..). But if you wanted to say 'sky god' it would be used like you use it, 'gok tanri'

In the orkun writings its writen 'kok tanri' - but some one very oddly translated it to english as sky-blue god..

This is also true for some other turkic creation myths, where the word 'tanri' is used with other words, other than 'gok'

its interesting.. after this post, I tried to find different versions for this tengri, came up with quite a few, almost identical in description, from Korean, Kirgiz, Kazakh, Tatar, Turkish sources (p.s. not new sources, 1828-1940)

It actually suprised me, in terms of rituals, as I always thought 'kurban bayrami' was a muslim holiday.. aparently most turkic peoples long before conversion to islam in some month of the year celebrated the same thing giving sacrifice various animals in an identical fashion to gok tengri.

Edited by baracuda
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 04:14
Quite interesting buddy. That was something new to me to know about 'Qurban Bayrami'. Thank you very much for the information. Now, I was wondering do you use the word 'Tengri' instead of 'Tangri' like Uyghurs?
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 07:49
Posted before; at this link ; (you can read a little from Iskender Bey albo's post there its in more detail. from the one I posted..

".. Times and rules of sacrifice ritual to Great Kuk Tengri. The Chinese testimony about rituals of Kuk Tengri are few and brief. The Chjoushu chronicles about ancient Turks say: In the 5-th month Turks usually slaughter sheep and horses to sacrifice to Tengri. Another record: Each year Khagan led nobles to the cave of his predecessors with offerings, and in the middle decade of the 5-th month they gathered at river Tamir to sacrifice to God Tengri.4 The ancient Turkic peoples carried the ritual of sacrifice to Great Kuk Tengri through the centuries, and preserved it among Altai peoples. Likewise, Khakases organize the annual prayer to Tengri in the middle of June. It coincides with the time of prayer recorded by the Chinese sources, in the modern calendar falling between 5 and 10 of June. Tatars also preserved the celebration in the beginning of summer, but only in a truncated form and under a name Saban-Tui, and Buryats living in Transbaikalia and Siberia, have it under a name Subarkhan..."

I have few books that are more detailed in Kirgiz, and Kazakh turkish some even in Korean but its not in english and too long for me to translate..I would also like to note that these rituals known to be since 2 century BC.

p.s. I and all Turks use 'tanri', I just like using Tangri/Tengri since I started reading ancient turkic myths in various languages.. it sort of stuck with me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2005 at 13:22
Uh hum... I see. Haven't you got any probelm pronouncing sound ling 'ng' in words like 'Tangri' or 'Tengri'; you know it produces different sounds in each of the above words....
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2005 at 22:59
Originally posted by hansioux

yup, kara means black or land.  Hence mountains called Kara Qumlum.

Qara also means west, and great at least in  Uyghur turkish.

Qarahan----->Western king

Qarakuch------> Great power

Qaraturuk-------> powerful person (but illiterate), interestingly.

 

Either make a history or become a history.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2005 at 23:11

Originally posted by baracuda

Hansioux Im telling you what its means in turkish language..

Kara Kum : dark sand.

Kara Kumlu : with dark sand ( -lu makes it with something in turkish)

Kara Kumlum, or Kumlun ( would mean, my dark sanded, or your dark sanded... but I would suppose that the m was added either due to some other turkic grammer.. ) ( or of course it could also mean that we took these to our vocabruary from some other language..)

There are places called Kara kum, in turkey and in kazakistan..

We Uyghurs call that mountain Qaraqurum, not Qaraqumlun.

Qara-----> black

Qur------> dry (like Quruq)

I went to that mountain to see a reservoir there, which is in the south of Uyghur Eli. It is really dry with nothing, and the color is blakish. It is awesome.

So I think it has nothing to do with Qum (sand).

 

Either make a history or become a history.
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