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Clans of Tujue / Gok-Turk

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Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai View Drop Down
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  Quote Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Clans of Tujue / Gok-Turk
    Posted: 27-May-2005 at 10:02

ihsan
I heard there were ten or twelve tribes among the Tujue people but I could find out only two of them: the Ashina and the Ashide. What were the names of the other tribes? Does anyone know (I know it must be really hard to find out)?

It's a post of friend Ihsan in his steppes forum, I have no an ID there, so i make a reply here, hope it helpful.

Chinese recorded 2 different stories in the book of zhou shu about origins of Tujue.  one is that:

A boy rised up by a she-wolf, had 10 sons who became the leaders of 10 tribes later, one of them was Tujue. but no other tribes were mentioned in this book.

another one is that:

Tujue's ancestor Yizhi-nishidu, had 4 sons, one of them was white goose(I heard some scholars thought it's a tribe regarding white goose as their totem), its name and location was not mentioned; one was qi-gu whose territory located in fu river(one of Siberian river) and jian river(Yannise river), some thought Qi-gu was just Jian-Kun who were ancestors of the kirgiz. another son's territory located in Chuzhe river, not sure where is it, its tribe was not mention. The oldest sone named Naduliu, whose territory located in jiansichuzheshi mountain(not sure where it is too), was selected as leader of his tribe, and he claim that his tribename was Tujue. Naduliu had 10 wives who all had a son. The youngest wife's son was Ashina, who eventually became the soccessor of his father Naduliu. Other son's name weren't mentioned too.

 

 

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Sharrukin View Drop Down
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2005 at 02:20

I think what is being talked about are the 10 tribes of the Western Turks, also known as the On Oq, the "ten tribes".  These were (in Chinese transliteration or in the case of the Nu-shih-pi also in Turkic):

The Eastern or Tardush tribes:

1. Ch'u-mu-k'un [ch'ueh]-lu

2. Hu-lu-wu ch'ueh

3. She-she-ti' tun

4. T'u-ch'i-shih ho-lo-shih

5. Shu-ni-shih ch'u-pan

Western or Nu-shih-pi tribes

6. A-hsi-chieh ch'ueh or *Arski kul

7. Ko-shu ch'ueh or Qosu kul

8. Pa-sai-kan tun sha-po-[lo] or Barsqan Tun Isbara

9. A-hsi-chieh ni-shu or *Arski Nizuk

10.  Ko-shu ch'u-pan or Qosu ch'u-pan

 

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Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai View Drop Down
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  Quote Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2005 at 06:16

It's about Gok-turk tribes before they raise to power and established eastern and western Gok-Turk empires. Gok-Turks should be a small tribe in the area of Altai Mountain among Tie-le or Gao-che tribal alliance ruled by Roran Khanate. There're several large Tie-le tribes mentioned in chinese history books, but, we can't find any clue about Gok-turk(or Tujue) untill Gok-turk raise to power.  According to myth of Gok-turk origins recorded by chinese, Gok-turk(or Ashina tribe) should have a closer ethnic origins with Qi-gu(the Kirgiz tribe) rather than others.

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gok_toruk View Drop Down
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2005 at 11:30

Dear Yungsiyebu,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, the fact is that their original name was not 'Gok Turk'. The family which was the core of the Empire Gok Turk and first decided to unite all tribes, was called simply Turk. But their origin and history is not mentioned. But what is obvious is that they were living in Altai for a long time. Kirgizes used to live in Northern Siberia until 924 that they invaded Mongolia (almost 200 years after Gok Turk empire). Now, there might be a relationship; but unclear for me. I really appreciate it if you could tell me what was the story. Take good care and take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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warhead View Drop Down
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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 13:11
The correct date of their invasion should be 840, when they destroyed the Uighur Khanate.
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