Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The Moors who Conquered and Civilized W. Europe

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Dino View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary

suspended

Joined: 07-Jun-2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14
  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Moors who Conquered and Civilized W. Europe
    Posted: 20-Jun-2016 at 09:04
Originally posted by red clay

The moors conquered Spain but weren't satisfied. The ultimate goal was to hold all of Europe. They ran into Charles Martell and his armies.

Yes we know that this was the last stand for Christianity in Europe, and it proved effective. 

"Although Marsile has fled, his uncle Marganice remains, he who rules Carthage, Alfrere, Garmalie, and Ethiopia, an accursed land. He has the black people under his command, their noses are big and their ears broad, together they number more than fifty thousand. They ride fiercely and furiously, then they shout the pagan battle cry."

Originally posted by red clay

The Moors committed atrocities just as any conquering army, in fact their actions gave the Crusaders an excuse to behave as they did.

Yes we know that there was a persistent war for over 700 years between white Christians and those Muslims (most were black initially). The direct consequence of those white Christians who fought the Muslim authorities and lost battles in their reconquest efforts were likely punished in one form or another (I doubt that they would make statues of these Christians who tried to invade the land again).

Considering the standards for religious tolerance at the time Muslim Spain was the light of the Medieval World. In which Christians and Jews lived without persecution, and rather harmoniously for centuries according to many scholars on the subject. 

''The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Jews and Christians Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain,''(Little, Brown, 2002) by Maria Rosa Menocal, a professor of Spanish and Portuguese at Yale University. Ms. Menocal argues that Andalusia's culture was ''rooted in pluralism and shaped by religious tolerance,'' particularly in its prime -- a period that lasted from the mid-eighth century until the fall of the Umayyad dynasty in 1031. It was undermined, she argues, by fundamentalism -- Catholic and Islamic alike."

It was the Christians who were bloody to those who were different! The Jews as stated earlier entered and left Spain with the Moors rather than live with the Christians, and here are the main reasons. 

"In the 1391 pogroms in Christian Spain, for example, an estimated 100,000 Jews were killed, 100,000 converted and 100,000 forced to flee -- a prelude to the 1492 expulsion of all Jews and the 17th-century expulsion of all Muslims. In comparison, many societies might resemble paradise."

The white Christians are the one's who committed this almost genocidal action against their Jewish minority, not the Muslims who embraced them. This is why I look side ways at those individuals today who proclaim Islam as violent while they are completely ignorant of just how AWFUL those white Christians were to non Christians. These same "Christians" took their bible and committed genocide on two continents and the most heinous atrocities known to man everywhere that they went. These Christians who took over Moorish Spain and utilized the new technology (ships, compass and guns) became the World's first global terrorist. Are you aware of how many native cultures around the World equated the coming of these "Christians" as the equivalent to a prophetic reign of the "Devil"?



Also in regards to their contributions to European society the Moors introduced CASTLES into Europe. Castles are often perceived to have been a staple of European architecture, and to know that even this came as a result of the 700 Moorish occupation of Europe proves just how vital the Moors were to the cultures of Europe.  

"By 711 AD, General Tarik ibn Ziyad al-Gibral, an Islamized African native whence the name, "Gibraltar," is derived, led a major invasion beyond that same peninsula. His fortres is the earliest known medieval castle in Europe, built centuries before those of the Loire Valley in France.



 According to legend, the phrase, "Thank heaven for 711" comes from the overwhelming sentiment of relief experienced when Moorish civilization permeated the Iberian peninsula (Spain, Portugal and Andorra) and Southern France and replaced primitive Visagothic feudal serfdom. For over 750 years, the Moors would lead Spain into an unprecedented era of freedom of association, religion, education and enterprise."

Originally posted by red clay

Your attempts to glorify what the moors did exposes your real intentions.

"Thank heaven for 711" was a song that came about as a result of the blessing of enlightenment that the Moor's relayed to those white Christians who were living in the ignorance, filth and disease of the Dark Ages prior to their entrance into Spain. Now if Europeans do not wish to acknowledge that this is the total opposite of what they did to Africa and the rest of the World 400 years then that's their problem. The nature of colonialism were complete opposites with regards to Europeans and others. 


Edited by Dino - 20-Jun-2016 at 09:06
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10108
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2016 at 09:25
Thank heaven for 7-11 is an old advertising jingle for a convenience store here in the US. Been around for 60 years.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
J.A.W. View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 07-Apr-2015
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 320
  Quote J.A.W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2016 at 19:54
Dino FYI, castles are built to dominate the land, & the people.
Castles provide a means for a ruling minority to keep safe in the event of a revolt,
& as a base to sally forth on punitive expeditions, to enforce conquest by force.

The Romans had built extensive defensive fortifications along many of their borders for many centuries,
& the walls of Constantinople kept out the Arab jihadis too.

Islam means submission, & the 'faithful' of that creed are charged with world domination, including
the enslavement of 'infidels', so you can spare us the "freedom" nonsense.

The 'madrasas' teach that only one book is worthy of study, which amounts to an exercise in ignorance.

The Arab jihadis enslaved the black Africans wholesale, & were, in turn, dominated by Turkic Asiatics,
via the Ottomans, & even their forced converts of European origin, the Mamelukes.

The rapacious greed of powerful men has been a constant, right up to Idi Amin, & Robert Mugabe.
Be Modest In Thyself..
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10108
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2016 at 22:30
Nicely put JAW.

He won't be able to answer you as I suspended him. His other thread violated the CoC in several ways.

Edited by red clay - 24-Jun-2016 at 12:30
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
renaissance232 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 04-Sep-2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
  Quote renaissance232 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2016 at 04:52
Interesting stuff. I would like sources myself but I'll take it as it is I guess, just not sure how much is truthful, mostly the Americas and East Asia part. @Above perhaps they were, but their artistic, cultural, and mathematic advancements are not to be underestimated. I don't know quite where I stand on this, just posting to let op know I appreciate this as I am doing research on Berbers and West Africa and this is pretty fascinating.

Edited by renaissance232 - 30-Oct-2016 at 04:58
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2016 at 16:15
Find a local uni which has an academic dealing in African history in it's varying facets...they love to show off how much it is they 'think' they know...which is to say..talk. be generous assume he/she does indeed have the quals and the knowledge...and it's there..that you will begin to learn more. But if it's objectivity in that arena u seek... that then depends on the academic..hence be wary.

amen.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2016 at 20:38
Start here: https://www.bu.edu/afam/
one of the better and more objective ya'll find.


Edited by medenaywe - 01-Nov-2016 at 00:29
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14624
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2016 at 00:30
link does not works!

Edited by medenaywe - 01-Nov-2016 at 00:30
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2016 at 14:30
http://www.bu.edu/
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
jpink00 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 21-Mar-2017
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
  Quote jpink00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2017 at 14:56
I can tell you that as early as 1364 firearms were in use, and the Arabs were the first to have them. The moors according to history were in possession of some firearms. 

If you choose to discuss and learn about history, you will need to do it without the many lenses of bias due to how you were raised, taught, believe, and what you have experienced in your lifetime. It only blurs your vision.
Back to Top
AnchoritSybarit View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 23
  Quote AnchoritSybarit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2017 at 17:09
When you come across a black muslim blissfully touting the wonders of Islam, its a hard decision whether to go ahead and bray like a donkey or to try and suppress one's derision and risk suffering a hernia trying not to laugh.

Leaving aside Islam's basic corrupt nature, a black man praising this religion makes about as much sense as a Jew arriving at the gates of Auschwitz singing Deutschland Uber Alles while clutching a picture of Adolf Hitler to his bosom with one hand while giving the Nazi salute with the other.

White European civilization has been criticized (not unfairly) for the slave trade.  However without Islam the mass transportation of African slaves to the Americas would have been almost impossible.  For centuries Islam had promoted and in fact organized the slave trade to and from Africa.  In fact until the 15-1600's more whites had been brought to Africa than blacks elsewhere.

As a merely logistical matter white slavers sailed to Africa and waited for Muslim traders to bring slaves for them to export.  If you doubt this consider that a typical slave trader's ship would seldom be crewed by more than a couple of dozen sailors.  These men usually went barefoot aboard ship.  They would have been totally incapable of penetrating more than a few miles beyond the coast.  They would have been totally unable to endure the climate or local diseases.

Despite being an extremely lucrative business endeavor all of the colonial (translate that White Christian) powers had banned the practice by the mid 1800's. (Belgium being the lone holdout until the very early 20th Century).  The US despite being one of the later to abolish the institution fought the bloodiest war in its history to do so.  More men died in its Civil War than in all its other wars combined (Revolution, War of 1812, Mexican, Spanish, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I & II, plus all of the Indian wars).  Think of that a WHITE supposedly Christian nation suffered that loss to free black people???!!!!!!  Who'da thunk it.

By way of contrast, having created the slave trade in Africa, then exporting it to the Americas  it is still the ONLY area in the world where the practice not only survives but thrives as never before.  Can I have a loud "THANK YOU ISLAM".
What I have I hold.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.