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The Moors who Conquered and Civilized W. Europe

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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Moors who Conquered and Civilized W. Europe
    Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 04:55


The story of the Moors is never told in full truth by most Western scholars. The Moors are often represented as beginning something other than the black African Muslims that they were. The acknowledgement of the legacy of the Moors in Europe will completely shatter the concept of white superiority and black inferiority myth that the West in particular the U.S. is apparently emotionally attached to. That is why whenever the Moors are mentioned the narrators always emphasize that they were "Muslims" while never stating that they were also African or even showing one of the thousands of depictions of these black Moors (and their like their earlier black European predecessors or their descendants) that line the streets and halls of Europe to this day.



These African Muslims literally civilized the wild tribes from the Caucus who had ran rampant throughout Western Europe after being pushed into this region by the invading Huns. These wild warring Caucasian tribes did not establish any civilization to pick up after they brought down the Western Roman Empire. As a result of there being little to no intellectual stimulation in Europe the continent fell into the Dark Ages until the 8th century C.E. when the Moors arrived into Europe from Africa. The European "Renaissance" was only possible through this African Muslim cultural domination for 700 years in which highly advanced and civilized cultures (based largely on the recollection of the advanced knowledge from ancient Kemet or "Egypt" that the Greeks stole/plagiarized and Westerners blatantly ignore the fact that they did just to attribute those contributions to a late Indo-European people) permeated throughout Western Europe via what was Muslim controlled Spain. 




Thus, after Muhammad's Islamic army took Egypt in 640 A.D. and then went on to conquer all of North Africa. The Berbers no-doubt saw this new Black army as an opportunity; so rather than fight, the Berbers joined forces with the Islamic army.


In 711 A.D. A Berber army led by general Tariq ibn Ziyad, invaded Iberia (Spain) and overthrew the Visigoths (Western Goths):



Who were one of two main branches of the Goths, an east Germanic tribe, who over the period of only one hundred years, had migrated from eastern Europe, thru Greece, thru Italy, and finally down into the Iberian peninsula.



In Iberia (Spain and Portugal), the Berbers, now known as Moors, created a highly advanced civilization and culture, famous for it’s art, architecture, and centers of learning. While having rule over Spain: The Berbers, who themselves fifty years earlier had been forced to accept Islam, now sometimes forced the inhabitants of Iberia to do the same. Though the number of original "Moors" remained small, many native Iberian inhabitants converted to Islam. According to Ronald Segal, some 5.6 million of Iberia's 7 million inhabitants were Muslim by 1200 A.D, virtually all of them native inhabitants. According to historian Richard A. Fletcher, the number of Arabs who settled in Iberia was very small. There were about 900,000 Berbers and about 90,000 Arabs in Iberia.












Muslim Spain and European Culture

Hidden Colors clip

Dean Derhak

When you think of European culture, one of the first things that may come to your mind is the renaissance. Many of the roots of European culture can be traced back to that glorious time of art, science, commerce and architecture. But did you know that long before the renaissance there was a place of humanistic beauty in Muslim Spain? Not only was it artistic, scientific and commercial, but it also exhibited incredible tolerance, imagination and poetry. Moors, as the Spaniards call the Muslims, populated Spain for nearly 700 years. As you'll see, it was their civilization that enlightened Europe and brought it out of the dark ages to usher in the renaissance. Many of their cultural and intellectual influences still live with us today.

Way back during the eighth century, Europe was still knee-deep in the Medieval period. That's not the only thing they were knee-deep in. In his book, "The Day The Universe Changed," the historian James Burke describes how the typical European townspeople lived:

"The inhabitants threw all their refuse into the drains in the center of the narrow streets. The stench must have been overwhelming, though it appears to have gone virtually unnoticed. Mixed with excrement and urine would be the soiled reeds and straw used to cover the dirt floors. This squalid society was organized under a feudal system and had little that would resemble a commercial economy. Along with other restrictions, the Catholic Church forbade the lending of money - which didn't help get things booming much. "Anti-Semitism, previously rare, began to increase. Money lending, which was forbidden by the Church, was permitted under Jewish law." (Burke, 1985, p. 32) Jews worked to develop a currency although they were heavily persecuted for it. Medieval Europe was a miserable lot, which ran high in illiteracy, superstition, barbarism and filth.

During this same time, Arabs entered Europe from the South. ABD AL-RAHMAN I, a survivor of a family of caliphs of the Arab empire, reached Spain in the mid-700's. He became the first Caliph of Al-Andalus, the Moorish part of Spain, which occupied most of the Iberian Peninsula. He also set up the UMAYYAD Dynasty that ruled Al-Andalus for over three-hundred years. (Grolier, History of Spain). Al Andalus means, "the land of the Vandals," from which comes the modern name Andalusia.

At first, the land resembled the rest of Europe in all its squalor. But within two-hundred years the Moors had turned Al-Andalus into a bastion of culture, commerce and beauty. "Irrigation systems imported from Syria and Arabia turned the dry plains... into an agricultural cornucopia. Olives and wheat had always grown there. The Arabs added pomegranates, oranges, lemons, aubergines, artichokes, cumin, coriander, bananas, almonds, pams, henna, woad, madder, saffron, sugar-cane, cotton, rice, figs, grapes, peaches, apricots and rice." (Burke, 1985, p. 37)

By the beginning of the ninth century, Moorish Spain was the gem of Europe with its capital city, Cordova. With the establishment of Abdurrahman III - "the great caliphate of Cordova" - came the golden age of Al-Andalus. Cordova, in southern Spain, was the intellectual center of Europe.

1. The Spanish occupation by the Moors began in 711 AD when an African army, under their leader Tariq ibn-Ziyad, crossed the Strait of Gibraltar from northern Africa and invaded the Iberian peninsula ‘Andalus' (Spain under the Visigoths).

2. A European scholar sympathetic to the Spaniards remembered the conquest in this way:
a. [T]he reins of their (Moors) horses were as fire, their faces black as pitch, their eyes shone like burning candles, their horses were swift as leopards and the riders fiercer than a wolf in a sheepfold at night . . . The noble Goths [the German rulers of Spain to whom Roderick belonged] were broken in an hour, quicker than tongue can tell. Oh luckless Spain!
Quoted in Edward Scobie, The Moors and Portugal's Global Expansion, in Golden Age of the Moor, ed Ivan Van Sertima, US, Transaction Publishers, 1992, p.336

3. The Moors, who ruled Spain for 800 years, introduced new scientific techniques to Europe, such as an astrolabe, a device for measuring the position of the stars and planets. Scientific progress in Astronomy, Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics, Geography and Philosophy flourished in Moorish Spain

4. Basil Davidson, one of the most noted historians recognized and declared that there were no lands at that time (the eighth century) "more admired by its neighbours, or more comfortable to live in, than a rich African civilization which took shape in Spain"

5. At its height, Córdova, the heart of Moorish territory in Spain, was the most modern city in Europe. The streets were well-paved, with raised sidewalks for pedestrians. During the night, ten miles of streets were well illuminated by lamps. (This was hundreds of years before there was a paved street in Paris or a street lamp in London.) Cordova had 900 public baths - we are told that a poor Moor would go without bread rather than soap!

6. The Great Mosque of Córdoba (La Mezquita) is still one of the architectural wonders of the world in spite of later Spanish disfigurements. Its low scarlet and gold roof, supported by 1,000 columns of marble, jasper and and porphyry, was lit by thousands of brass and silver lamps which burned perfumed oil.

7. Education was universal in Moorish Spain, available to all, while in Christian Europe ninety-nine percent of the population were illiterate, and even kings could neither read nor write. At that time, Europe had only two universities, the Moors had seventeen great universities! These were located in Almeria, Cordova, Granada, Juen, Malaga, Seville, and Toledo.

8. In the tenth and eleventh centuries, public libraries in Europe were non-existent, while Moorish Spain could boast of more than seventy, of which the one in Cordova housed six hundred thousand manuscripts.

9. Over 4,000 Arabic words and Arabic-derived phrases have been absorbed into the Spanish language. Words beginning with "al," for example, are derived from Arabic. Arabic words such as algebra, alcohol, chemistry, nadir, alkaline, and cipher entered the language. Even words such as checkmate, influenza, typhoon, orange, and cable can be traced back to Arabic origins.

10. The most significant Moorish musician was known as Ziryab (the Blackbird) who arrived in Spain in 822. The Moors introduced earliest versions of several instruments, including the Lute or el oud, the guitar or kithara and the Lyre. Ziryab changed the style of eating by breaking meals into separate courses beginning with soup and ending with desserts.

11. The Moors introduced paper to Europe and Arabic numerals, which replaced the clumsy Roman system.

12. The Moors introduced many new crops including the orange, lemon, peach, apricot, fig, sugar cane, dates, ginger and pomegranate as well as saffron, sugar cane, cotton, silk and rice which remain some of Spain's main products today.

13. The Moorish rulers lived in sumptuous palaces, while the monarchs of Germany, France, and England dwelt in big barns, with no windows and no chimneys, and with only a hole in the roof for the exit of smoke. One such Moorish palace ‘Alhambra' (literally "the red one") in Granada is one of Spain's architectural masterpieces. Alhambra was the seat of Muslim rulers from the 13th century to the end of the 15th century. The Alhambra is a UNESCO World Heritage Site

14. It was through Africa that the new knowledge of China, India, and Arabia reached Europe The Moors brought the Compass from China into Europe.

15. The Moors ruled and occupied Lisbon (named "Lashbuna" by the Moors) and the rest of the country until well into the twelfth century. They were finally defeated and driven out by the forces of King Alfonso Henriques. The scene of this battle was the Castelo de Sao Jorge or the 'Castle of St. George.



An interesting fact to note about the Islamic conquest of Northern Africa, was that while previously Roman controlled "Egypt" was conquered by the invading Arabs, these Arabs were repelled not once but twice by the Christian Nubians further south into Africa (Sudan). The only reason that Arabs and Islam came south of the Sahara was through the peace treaty that the Arabs came with the third time, which was the longest lasting peace treaty in recorded history. This treaty allowed Islam into the area where it became it's own power over time. Understand that these religious invaders got checked at the front door when they came into Africa. 

In 642, 'Amr ibn al-'As sent a column of 20,000 horsemen under his cousin Uqba ibn Nafi against Makurra. They managed to get as far as Dongola, the capital of Makurra. However, in a rare turn of events, the Arab forces were beaten back.  According to historian Al-Baladhuri, the Muslims found that the Nubians fought strongly and met them with showers of arrows. The majority of the Arab forces returned with wounded and blinded eyes. It was thus that the Nubians were called 'the pupil smiters'. Al-Baladhuri also states, quoting from one of his sources that went to Nubia twice during the rule of `Umar ibn al-Khattab.

 "One day they came out against us and formed a line; we wanted to use swords, but we were not able to, and they shot at us and put out eyes to the number of one hundred and fifty." (hence Ta-Seti or Land of the Bow)

This is why Europeans (starting with the Portuguese) came into Africa and initially had to respect the Africans for 400 years before dividing and conquering those same Africans who entrusted them with their knowledge. 


Edited by Dino - 20-Jun-2016 at 09:20
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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 10:02
The Moors were in America (and around the World indicted by their mapping of Antarctica) long before Columbus was. This explains why Columbus "suddenly" had an "urge" to navigate the same year that those European overthrew the Moors in 1492 who we all know had been sailing all the way to China and Japan. It is also a recorded fact that the true navigatorof Columbus's ship was in fact a Moor

There is a hidden early black history here in America that is hidden by lying Western scholars. 



The African, and Muslim, Discovery of America  – Before Columbus Dr. Abdullah Hakim Quick (Adopted with permission from the book, Deeper Roots, Muslims in the Americas and the Caribbean from before Columbus to the Present, by Dr. Abdullah Hakim Quick, DPB Printers and Booksellers, Cape Town, South Africa. Those interested in further research are strongly urged to read Dr. Quik’s book.) Ancient America was not isolated from the old world as many historians and anthropologists would have us believe. People from both sides of the Atlantic Ocean traveled great distances, mingled with each other and exchanged knowledge and products. Long before Columbus became aware of the possibility of land in the west, Muslims, among other people, had made contact with the Americas and had already left an impression on the Native culture 13. Knowledge, agricultural products, livestock, metals, and other commercial items were exchanged between the two worlds. Evidence leading to establishing the presence of Muslims in ancient America comes from a number of sculptures, oral traditions, eye-witness reports, artifacts, Arabic documents, coins, and inscriptions. In Meso-American art, we see Africans and Semites in positions of power and prestige, especially in trading communities of Mexico. A report in Before Columbus by Cyrus Gordon describes coins found in the southern Caribbean region: 

“…..off the coast of Venezuela was discovered a hoard of Mediterranean coins with so many duplicates that it cannot well be a numismatist’s collection but rather a supply of cash. Nearly all the coins are Roman, from the reign of Augustus to the 4th century CE. Two of the coins however, are Arabic of the 8th century CE. It is the latter that gives us the terminus a quo (i.e. time after which) of the collection as a whole (which cannot be earlier than the latest coins in the collection). Roman coins continued in use as currency into the medieval times. A Moorish ship, perhaps from Spain or North Africa, seems to have crossed the Atlantic around 800 CE 15.“


The discovery of these coins adds validity to the reports, recorded by Muslim historians and geographers, concerning the journeys of Muslim adventurers and navigators across the Atlantic Ocean. In Muruj adh-Dhahab wa Ma’adin al-Jawhar (The Meadows of Gold and Quarries of Jewels) written around the year 956 CE, Abul Hassan Ali ibn al-Hussain ibn Ali al-Masudi, a historian, geographer, philosopher, and natural scientist, wrote about a young man of Cordoba named Khashkhash ibn Saeed ibn Aswad who crossed the Atlantic Ocean, made contact with people on the other side, and returned in the year 889 CE. Al Masudi wrote:

“Some people feel that this ocean is the source of all oceans and in it there have been many strange happenings. We have reported some of them in our book Akhbar az-Zaman. Adventurers have penetrated it at the risk of their lives, some returning safely, others perishing in the attempt. One such man was an in habitant of Andalusia named Khashkhash. He was a young man of Cordoba who gathered a group of young men and went on a voyage on this ocean. After a long time, he returned with a fabulous booty. Every Spaniard (Andalusian) knows his story.” 

A narration by Abu Bakr ibn Umar al-Qutiyya (not to be confused with the author of Tarikh Iftitah al-Andalus, Ibn al-Qutiyya) relates the story of Ibn Farrukh who landed in February 999 CE in Gando (Great Canary), visited King Guanariga and continued his journey westwards till he found islands he called Capraria and Pluitana. In May of that year he arrived back in Spain. Abu Abd Allah Muhammad al-Idrisi (1090-1180), the famous Arab physician and geographer who established himself in the Arabicised court of King Roger II of Sicily, reported in his extensive work Kitab al-Mamalik wa-l-Masalik, in the 12th century on the journey of a group of seamen who reached the isles of the Americas. Al Idrisi wrote: 

A group of seafarers sailed into the sea of darkness and fog (the Atlantic Ocean) from Lisbon in order to discover what was in it and to what extent were its limits. They were a party of eight and they took a boat which was loaded with supplies to last them for months. They sailed for eleven days until they reached turbulent waters with great waves and little light. They thought that they would perish so they turned their boat southward and traveled for twelve days. They finally reached an island that had people and civilization but they were captured and chained for three days. On the fourth day, a translator came speaking the Arabic language! He translated for the King and asked them about their mission. They informed him about themselves, then they were returned to their confinement. When the westerly wind began to blow they were put in a canoe blindfolded, and brought to land after three days sailing. They were left on the shore with their hands tied behind their backs. When the next day came another tribe appeared, freeing them and informing them that between them and their lands was a journey of two months.” 

This astonishing historical report not only describes contact between Muslim seamen and the Native people of the Americas, but it also describes travel between islands, probably the Bahamas chain or the Lesser Antilles. The islanders had developed the ability to speak Arabic, a language that cannot be mastered by a single contact. They must have been regularly visited by Arabic speaking Muslim merchants or adventurers, or they had lived in Muslim territory. In October, 1929 CE, Khalid Edhem Bey discovered by chance in the library of Serallo, in the city of Istanbul, a map of parchment made in the month of Muharram in the year 919 AH (March 1513). The rare and valuable geographical letter contained, among other legends, the following note:

“This chapter explains how this map has been made. Such a map nobody owns at present. By the hands of this poor man it has been composed and now elaborated.” The discovery was very significant. As already stated, it had to do with a parchment in Turkish writing, painted in several colors, with dimensions 1.85×0.60 20. It comprises the Atlantic Ocean with America and the western rim of the world. The other parts of the world, which the map probably included, have been lost. 21 The author of the map, Piri Muhyi’d-Din Re’is was a famous navigator and map maker who died about 1554-55 CE. He wrote a handbook on navigation in the Aegean and the Mediterranean Seas, which was known as Piri Re’is Behriye. Perhaps the map found by Khalil Edhem Bey was part of this handbook, which was presented to Sultan Selim I in 1517 CE, and which would explain how the mysterious parchment was found in Serallo. What is most important to this study, however, is that this map is one of the most conclusive pieces of hard evidence to show the validity of Muslim exploration in the Western hemisphere. Piri Re’is, a Turkish navigator, wrote that he used twenty source-maps, among them eight maps dating from the time of Alexander the Great, an Arab map of India, four Portuguese maps of the Indian Ocean and China, and a map by Columbus of the western area. But Piri’s map contains information that could not have been known by Columbus. It contains the correct relative longitude across Africa, and across the Atlantic, all the way from the meridian of Alexandria, Egypt, to Brazil. The mid-Atlantic islands are shown with remarkable accuracy. The Cape Verde islands, Madeira Islands, and the Azores are shown in perfect longitude. The Canary Islands are off by one degree latitude. The Andes are shown on this map of 1513 CE. The Andes were not “discovered” by Europeans until 1527 CE with the coming of Pizarro. The Atrato River (in present day Columbia) is shown for a distance of 300 miles from the sea. Its eastward bend at latitude 5 degrees north is correct. The Amazon is shown twice, once on the equator of the main grid and once on the equator of the small grid. The island of Marajo is shown at the mouth of the Amazon, but this island was not officially discovered by Europeans until 1543 CE. Someone must have traveled throughout the upper part of the South America exploring rivers and recording information. 22 The Haji Ahmed map of 1559 CE, also supports the validity of a Muslim presence in the Americas long before Columbus. He was also a Turkish map-maker who, in the tradition of Islamic scientists and technicians of his age benefited from the knowledge of the ancient Egyptians, Hindus, Greeks, Romans, and Phoenicians, and took it to a higher level of development. Muslims had led the world in Astronomy, Mathematics, Chemistry, Medicine, History, Geography, Navigation, etc. for hundreds of years before the 16th century, and Haji Ahmed followed in their footsteps. The Eastern Hemisphere, on his map, is poorly done and probably was based on the sources of Ptolemy. The Western side, however, was mapped so well that it is hard to believe that anyone could have drawn this map who did not have access to maps of people well-travelled in the Americas. The shapes of North and South America are surprisingly modern, especially the western coasts. Their drawing on a highly sophisticated spherical projection puts the map about two centuries ahead of the cartography of that time. 24 Another map of Florida, based on a French expedition of the 1564, shows three names that demonstrate an earlier Muslim settlement in that area. They were written as follows: Mayarca (Majorca) Cadica (Cadiz) Marracou (Marrakesh) 25 How could these names have been used by people if they had not made contact with North African or Andalusian Muslims? 

Anti-diffusionist scholars have countered earlier claims to a pre-Columbian presence in the Americas by casting doubt on the nautical ability of Muslim or African seamen, and by citing the difficulty of crossing the Atlantic Ocean. In 1969 CE, the Scandinavian scientist, Thor Heyerdahl crossed the Atlantic for the second time, starting from the North African port, Safi, and arriving in Barbados, West Indies. His craft was made by Africans of indigenous papyrus, thereby proving that not only could North African or West African sailors have crossed the Atlantic Ocean, but that even the ancient Egyptians could have done so. It is now well known that the currents coming off the Iberian Peninsula and western coastline of Africa will take a ship easily into the Caribbean or to the east coast of South America (present day Brazil).


Edited by Dino - 20-Jun-2016 at 09:19
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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 10:23
The European Legacy of the Moors.

The Drake jewel of Sir Francis Drake honoring his family's African-Moorish ancestry












The arrival of the first Portuguese shown below arriving into Japan..Hence the Moors taught Caucasian Europeans how and where to navigate.

 

George Washington and the Moors






Edited by Dino - 13-Jun-2016 at 11:36
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 10:26
Originally posted by Dino



In 711 A.D. A Berber army led by general Tariq ibn Ziyad, invaded Iberia (Spain) and overthrew the White Visigoths (Western Goths)





Visigoths had no chance when the moors were using firearms against their knights already in 711 AD.
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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 10:49
Firearms certainly were not the main nor even a significant source of the weaponry used by the Moors. The battles are described in the second video. The Moors were reputed for their fighting superiority especially against the Indo-European tribes who would in the later dynasties be formed into a slave army known as the "Silent Ones" because they could not speak the language. 



A European scholar sympathetic to the Spaniards remembered the conquest in this way: a. [T]he reins of their (Moors) horses were as fire, their faces black as pitch, their eyes shone like burning candles, their horses were swift as leopards and the riders fiercer than a wolf in a sheepfold at night . . . (nothing in here about good gunman)The noble Goths [the German rulers of Spain to whom Roderick belonged] were broken in an hour, quicker than tongue can tell. Oh luckless Spain! Quoted in Edward Scobie, The Moors and Portugal's Global Expansion, in Golden Age of the Moor, ed Ivan Van Sertima, US, Transaction Publishers, 1992, p.336 Nothing is bi


Edited by Dino - 20-Jun-2016 at 09:15
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 11:07
Originally posted by Dino

Firearms certainly were not the main nor even a significant source of the weaponry used by the Moors.


Especialy concerning fact that in the 8th century the firearms were not yet invented while they appear on your picture.
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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 11:28
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by Dino

Firearms certainly were not the main nor even a significant source of the weaponry used by the Moors.


Especialy concerning fact that in the 8th century the firearms were not yet invented while they appear on your picture.

Well that is your assumption that this painting is representing an 8th century Moorish army coming into Spain. I never stated that this painting was representing that army in 711. We do know however that firearms came into Europe through these African Muslims during this almost 800 year domination of Europe. We know that this African domination of Europe occurred despite in your own words the lack firearms for the Muslims.

In fact the first army to ever fully utilize firearms as a main weapon were the Brits who subdued their enemies in the British Isles (which included many native black Europeans who had been there since the Neolithic). It was from the technology (like the compass, ships, regular bathing etc) brought into Europe by the Moors that the Brits got the launching pad that gave them their imperialistic name. 


Edited by Dino - 13-Jun-2016 at 11:30
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 14:48
Excusme but it was you who have placed this statement over your picture:

"In 711 A.D. A Berber army led by general Tariq ibn Ziyad, invaded Iberia (Spain) and overthrew the White Visigoths (Western Goths)"

n fact the first army to ever fully utilize firearms as a main weapon were the Brits


First who used it in big numbers were the Bohemian Hussites.



who subdued their enemies in the British Isles (which included many native black Europeans who had been there since the Neolithic).


Indeed, great Roman commander Julius Caesar who landed in Britain have already described that most of the people who were living there were already black.



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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 14:52
This is the mummy of Ötzi, known as the iceman, it was found in iceberg. All European scientists were astonished when they found that he was not white but black. He died around 3300 year BC.




Edited by Mosquito - 13-Jun-2016 at 14:59
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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2016 at 19:11
Benjamin Banneker was a free African American Genius, Dogon Moor and Mason. He was the author of the first almanac, surveyor, naturalist and farmer. Born in Baltimore County, Maryland, to a free African American woman and a freed Father from Dogon, who was formerly enslaved, Banneker had little formal education and was largely self-taught. 

Born: November 9, 1731, Baltimore County, Maryland, MD Died: October 9, 1806, Baltimore County, Maryland, MD Nationality: American Parents: Mary Bannaky, Robert Bannaky












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  Quote Kevinmeath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2016 at 17:14
Originally posted by Dino


...............................In fact the first army to ever fully utilize firearms as a main weapon were the Brits who subdued their enemies in the British Isles (which included many native black Europeans who had been there since the Neolithic). It was from the technology <span style="line-height: 16.8px;">(like the compass, ships, regular bathing etc) </span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">brought into Europe by the Moors that the Brits got the launching pad that gave them their imperialistic name. </span>


Please do explain this further? did the 'Brits' us firearms to subdue their enemies in the British Isles?
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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2016 at 09:48
Guns and Sails in the First Phase of English Colonization, 

1500–1650 N. A. M. Rodger

Ship design on the Atlantic seaboard of Western Europe was changing in the later fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, and the cumulative effect of these changes was to transform European shipping in ways which profoundly influenced the overseas expansion of every European state. Moreover, the changes operated differently in different countries, and their effect in England and Scotland was to create some distinctive and valuable advantages, as well as some disadvantages, in the competition with other countries for overseas possessions and markets. The kind of ships the English and Scots built, and the manner in which they armed them, had a real influence on the way in which their colonial empire eventually developed. Naval architecture, naval tactics, gunnery, and navigation were fundamental technical skills upon which overseas expansion was to be built, and they have to be understood to be fully accounted for.

We know that before Britain became the plague of the World that it has worked hard to maintain, and that directly before destroying everything 



that they touched outside of Europe (hence a plague) that they first began to torment other Indo-European groups in the British Isles (Irish, Scots, etc).

"Ireland during the period 1536–1691 saw the first full conquest of the island by England and its colonization with Protestant settlers from Britain. This established two central themes in future Irish history – subordination of the country to London-based governments and sectarian animosity between Catholics and Protestants."


The Moors are the blacks who taught these Caucasians how to use the technology (compass, ships, guns, science, astrology etc) to advance their state (the second time that Africans have done this  Indo - Europeans) Some of them however used this blind empowerment to do take over the World. 


Edited by Dino - 17-Jun-2016 at 09:54
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2016 at 10:25
This may surprise you, but not much of this is new. We have had many "Afro-Centrists" through here.

Be careful with playing fast and loose with Van Sertima quotes. He was the chair of African studies at Rutgers, The state Uni of New Jersey. I attended quite a few of his lectures. Folks have been twisting his work to fit their theories for years.

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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2016 at 18:41
Now why would you accuse me of twisting his work if you are not going to quote me where I did? Nothing is twisted and that is precisely why some people do not like what is written in plain truth. It is completely contrary to strong notions that resonates throughout Western society.
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  Quote J.A.W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2016 at 20:11
Dino's massive historical misrepresentation is bemusing.

Rome, while a 'pagan' society, produced so many marvels - such as the still standing 'Pantheon' , 
a 20 century old concrete domed structure, which celebrated Roman cultural acceptance.

Its true that the monopoly monotheistic Eastern religion corroded Rome's vigour, but the Byzantine
rump, even while repressively Christian - kept the light of classical civilization going through the 'dark ages'.

The claims Dino makes about Islam & enlightened 'conquest' just fall over with one step.. Sharia law.

Its true that certain Emirs/Caliphs/Sultans had made good use of the technology of the ancients, which
in the West at least, were largely stifled by Papal influence until the end of the 'middle ages', but as 
Europe advanced, the Islamic world, like the East, was unable, or unwilling to adapt too.

By the time of the 'Enlightenment', the values espoused by progressive Western thinkers had enabled
a scientific/industrial revolution, which if blighted by the excesses of rampant capitalism, had at least
mostly shrugged off the despotic 'slave' mentality (in law, if not in social practice) by the 2nd 1/2 of the C19th.

It was only after the general acceptance of 'common good' values such as public health/education were
established that issues such as literacy/life expectancy for regular people finally bettered the old Romans.




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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2016 at 10:07
Originally posted by Dino

Now why would you accuse me of twisting his work if you are not going to quote me where I did? Nothing is twisted and that is precisely why some people do not like what is written in plain truth. It is completely contrary to strong notions that resonates throughout Western society.


Not an accusation, just a caution.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2016 at 23:43
Originally posted by J.A.W.

Rome, while a 'pagan' society, produced so many marvels

"It is safe to say that the Romans were no great innovators of culture. They mostly copied the so-called “Hellenistic” and Egyptian high cultures. Yes, Rome may have conquered physically but she was conquered culturally. The religion of the Romans, their gods, their rites originally came from Egypt. There were 5000 year old Egyptian equivalents of Roman gods, 5000 years before Rome was built. The cultural center of the Roman Empire was Egypt, specifically Alexandria. There one had the books, the rites, the tradition and the ancient mystery disciplines that had been honed and developed thousands of years before Rome. Up till this day, the arts and sciences encapsulated in those books, are fundamental to the successful construction and sustenance of any human society. The Greeks who heavily influenced Rome, were at the outset a colony of Egyptians and Phoenicians (neighbors to Egyptians) all from Africa. The first and earliest civilizations of the Creteans, Maltans, Pelasgians, Ionians, and Therans came from Africa. The populace was were predominantly African. It was only thousands of years later that the Dorians (Indo -Europeans) appeared and plunged Greece into the dark ages, before it was eventually revived again by Black Egyptian colonists. Solon the first law giver in Athens was a product of the Egyptian mystery school. Pythagoras one of the greatest Greeks that ever lived was a product of Egyptian mystery school. Socrates and Aristotle were long represented as dark-skinned Afro-Greeks by the Arabs, the Saracens, and the Turks, long before North West Europe became ancient Greek fans. Greek language, culture and so-called attainments all came from Egypt, contrary to what you may have been told in government schools. Try find the books written by Martin Bernal – The Black Athena; and Prof George J. James: Stolen Civilization, Godfrey Higgins in his book Anacalypsis, as well as books by Gerald Massey, Drussila Houston- The Wonderful Ethiopians of the ancient Cushitic Empire etc. etc.; to understand this very point. You will come to see that Rome started off as a colony or vassal of the Kartha Hadashians (Carthage), if you were to parse your history very well. It was the influence of the Carthaginians that made Rome. Rome later got its independence and even eventually destroyed Carthage. Yet, Carthage had a thousand years of high culture and pre-eminence before Rome was born. By the time it was destroyed by Romans, Carthage was a thousand year old black African Empire, ruling the then known world through its maritime connections. Ethiopia and Sudan greatly influenced Rome because it was from therein that the first Christian monks reached Rome and established the monastic culture, which eventually was key to the civilization of the entire Europe. See History of Monasticism. You have to stand on the shoulders of giants to be a giant. The Carthaginians, the Egyptians, the Ethiopians, the Sudanese, were all great African nations, pre-eminent in culture and sciences of their time, waaaay before Romans could read and write. The Roman numerals, the Roman alphabets, Roman architecture, Roads, system of justice and government, all came from African nations who were in existence thousands of years before Romans knew the meaning of civilization."

Its true that the monopoly monotheistic Eastern religion corroded Rome's vigour, but the Byzantine
rump, even while repressively Christian - kept the light of classical civilization going through the 'dark ages'.

Originally posted by J.A.W.

The claims Dino makes about Islam & enlightened 'conquest' just fall over with one step.. Sharia law.

Due explain why did the Hebrews exit from Spain with the defeat of the Muslims ushering in Christian rule? If the Muslims "subjugated" those "infidels" then why didn't they stay with the "oppressed" Christians who took over? 

In reality no people were subjugated because they were not Muslim. The only tribute that non Muslims did was pay a tax. There was no severe persecution of non Muslims in during Moorish rule. 

Originally posted by J.A.W.

Its true that certain Emirs/Caliphs/Sultans had made good use of the technology of the ancients, which in the West at least, were largely stifled by Papal influence until the end of the 'middle ages', but as Europe advanced, the Islamic world, like the East, was unable, or unwilling to adapt too.

They retained the ancient knowledge from the Nile Valley, and brought it into Europe not once (which is how Greece and Rome came to be) but twice. The Moorish occupation of Spain brought EVERYTHING into Western Europe. Everything from rice and pasta to secret cults (Free Masonry, Rosicrucians etc) brought by the Moors formed the basis for Western Europe's launching pad into colonialism. Celts, Anglos, Vandals (all of these Indo-European groups) did not have a history building ships, navigating with compasses, using algebra (the word itself is Arabic and stems from this very historical moment) etc. 

Originally posted by J.A.W.

By the time of the 'Enlightenment', the values espoused by progressive Western thinkers had enabled a scientific/industrial revolution

Much of the technology that progressed in Western society came later after the deciphering of the Rosetta stones. 
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  Quote J.A.W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2016 at 06:48
Dino, your post stat above is just wrong, on so many levels..

The Romans took over the Greek world, including Greek ruled Egypt, yet the cultural Romans were aghast at Caesar & Marc Antony having been seduced by Cleopatra ( & she was of Greek ethnic origins).

Roman citizenship & law was extended to valued peoples of non-Roman origin, this was copied by the
Christians & Muslims, on the basis of religious conversion later, & unlike the Jews who did not accept 
non-Hebrews, in those days.

Carthage was a former colony of Phoenician origins, a people from Asia-minor, not Africa,
& the Romans reckoned themselves to be from Troy, originally. 

The Byzantines, even after adopting Greek culture centuries after the fall of Rome, still considered 
themselves Roman, as did the Islamic Arabs who tried to conquer them.

Arabs certainly do not consider themselves to be of 'black' African stock.
They did value the surviving proto-scientific writings by Greeks & Romans though, 
many of which carry the names of the people who developed these ideas, to this day.

The Jews in Spain had suffered many periods of forced conversion, or destruction/exile  at the hands 
of both Muslim & Christian zealots, & no doubt their hard men would do the same too,
- if they'd had the power to do so.

The states of Europe which speak a language directly derived from Latin, & use a modernised form
of Roman law give lie to your ignorance about Roman culture, as does the script this written in.

It was there for many centuries before the 'Moors' invaded, & is still there now..

I refer you to the fairly recent comments of the former Pope Benedict, 
who quoted the Byzantine Emperor - as to the true nature of the Muslim invasions..


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  Quote Dino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2016 at 09:13
Originally posted by J.A.W.

The Romans took over the Greek world, including Greek ruled Egypt, yet the cultural Romans were aghast at Caesar & Marc Antony having been seduced by Cleopatra

Are you trying to suggest that certain Europeans who got the notion of civilization from Africa somehow forgot who taught them everything (like basic speech), and subsequently developed a snooty attitude towards Africans?

Originally posted by J.A.W.

( & she was of Greek ethnic origins).

African according to recent "theories" based on her sister having a "negroid" skull.



Originally posted by J.A.W.

Roman citizenship & law was extended to valued peoples of non-Roman origin, this was copied by the Christians & Muslims

The first time that something like this happened was in Africa on the Nile Valley when the Kemites ("Egyptians") allowed the Hyksos to stay (or go) even after they tried to take over Kemet in 1785 B.C.E.. Ahmose could have killed all of the Semitic people's once he defeated and drove out the noncooperating out, but he allowed those who wished to obey African law to stay. The Romans on the other hand ruthlessly destroyed or enslaved anything that resisted it's tyranny. 



Originally posted by J.A.W.

, on the basis of religious conversion later, & unlike the Jews who did not accept 
non-Hebrews, in those days.



Originally posted by J.A.W.

Carthage was a former colony of Phoenician origins, a people from Asia-minor, not Africa, & the Romans reckoned themselves to be from Troy, originally.

Do tell where did the Phoenicians and the people of Troy come from... the Caucus? No! They like every other early ancient civilization was peopled from the various types of black Nile Valley (Kemites or Nubians) - ancient Saharan Africans (known as Kushites).



Phoenician (not Egyptian)


Phoenician

Phoenicians


I see nothing but black people on this ancient Phoenician coinage and scarabs. Ancient Phoenicia was first founded in the late 4th millennium B.C.E. (like many ancient civilizations) as a result of migrants from the desertification phases of the ancient Sahara which pushed Africans in all directions away including past the Nile Valley into the adjacent Fertile Crescent. 



Originally posted by J.A.W.

The Byzantines, even after adopting Greek culture centuries after the fall of Rome, still considered themselves Roman, as did the Islamic Arabs who tried to conquer them.

You do understand that there was nothing civil about Roman imperialism do you? You do realize that people who have allegiance to Rome were likely indoctrinated descended of those who were brutally conquered by those Barbarians? Brainwashed children does not really thwart the bloody legacy of imperialism that Rome is only known for. 

Originally posted by J.A.W.

Arabs certainly do not consider themselves to be of 'black' African stock.

Here is what the original Arabs in the Arabian Peninsula looked like. 




Sixthly, the pre-Islamitic institutions of Yemen and its allied provinces-its monarchies, courts, armies, and serfs-bear a marked resemblance to the historical Africao-Egyptian type, even to modern Abyssinian. Seventhly, the physical conformation of the pure-blooded Arab inhabitants of Yemen, Hadramaut, Oman, and the adjoining districts-the shape and size of head, the slenderness of the lower limbs, the comparative scantiness of hair, and other particulars-point in an African rather than an Asiatic direction....The Pure Arabs and the East Africans are indeed kith and kin. Bertram Thomas, historian and former Prime Minister of Muscat and Oman, reported in his work ‘The Arabs’:

The Encyclopedia Britannica (9th Edition)

“Mr. Baldwin draws a marked distinction between the modern Mahomedan Semitic population of Arabia and their great Cushite, Hamite, or Ethiopian predecessors. The former, he says, ‘are comparatively modern in Arabia,’ they have ‘appropriated the reputation of the old race,’ and have unduly occupied the chief attention of modern scholars.”-- Charles Hardwick (1872)


Originally posted by J.A.W.

They did value the surviving proto-scientific writings by Greeks & Romans though,

The Romans inheritted the legacy of Greece (as we know) and the Greeks of course learned EVERYTHING from the ancient "Egyptians" whom they (the Greeks) themselves credit with their knowledge. The ancient Greeks were not considered "scholars" until they spent at least 40 years of their lives in the "Egyptian mystery schools" learning the sciences, philosophies and arts from the Africans along the Nile. It is in great futility to on the parts of Eurocentric individuals to ignore the evident fact that European civilization was the product of African migrants even before Indo-Europeans (the Dorians in this case) were released from the Caucus and first entered Greece around 14th century B.C.E. 
 
many of which carry the names of the people who developed these ideas, to this day.

Originally posted by J.A.W.

The Jews in Spain had suffered many periods of forced conversion, or destruction/exile  at the hands of both Muslim & Christian zealots,

That doesn't address the fact that EVERYONE thrived in Muslim controlled Spain. It was the result of the White Europe Christian "Reconquest" after 7 centuries of Muslim rule that the Muslims AND JEWS fled from Spain. If the Muslims were persecuting people for not being Muslims then why would Jews not embrace the white Christian takeover of Spain? Given the common Western narrative that they have "always fought" it doesn't make sense, unless they knew that white "Christian jihadist"  were the only real terror...

In the same year that these Moors were kicked out of Spain 1492 was the same year that Europeans began their rampage in America..





Perhaps this is why the Jews left. 

Originally posted by J.A.W.

 & no doubt their hard men would do the same too, - if they'd had the power to do so.

No...I'm tired of this argument being applied to all peoples when we know for a fact that the Moors and other Africans HAD THE POWER at one time to do all of those horrible things to the people whom they conquered and civilized. They chose to use higher morality rather than wallow in lower chakra behaviors. 

Originally posted by J.A.W.

The states of Europe which speak a language directly derived from Latin, & use a modernised formof Roman law give lie to your ignorance about Roman culture, as does the script this written in.

The Roman language and script came from Greek written language which came from ancient Phoenician (African) script and of course the ancient Phoenician script came from the Nile Valley. The Romans never invented any script.




Edited by Dino - 20-Jun-2016 at 09:09
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2016 at 12:45
The moors conquered Spain but weren't satisfied. The ultimate goal was to hold all of Europe. They ran into Charles Martell and his armies.

The Moors committed atrocities just as any conquering army, in fact their actions gave the Crusaders an excuse to behave as they did.

Your attempts to glorify what the moors did exposes your real intentions.

We have seen and heard all of this before and your as inaccurate as all of the others.



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