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Hitler's attempts to make alliance with Poland

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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hitler's attempts to make alliance with Poland
    Posted: 15-Apr-2016 at 19:43
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by Mosquito


Little is known because after the war all the surviving members had to change identities or hide their conspirational past. The Soviets would have simply killed them all. All the members of KEDYW (in Polish short for Special Operations Executive)and organisations which were under command of KEDYW, including their chief commander general Fieldorf were murdered.


Actually it were the Jews that were murdering them. Like in the case of general Fieldorf. He was arrested by Jew, tortured by Jew, accused by Jewish prosecutor, and condemned by Jewish judge. So most of the Special Operations soldiers had to change identity or were killed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_August_Fieldorf
Ask yourself, Mosquito, if General Fieldorf for one second would have considered that it might have been better to have sided with the germans. My guess is that he would have strongly said an emphatic no. Staying true to Polish values rather than siding with one dictator or another.
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2016 at 05:17
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Ask yourself, Mosquito, if General Fieldorf for one second would have considered that it might have been better to have sided with the germans. My guess is that he would have strongly said an emphatic no. Staying true to Polish values rather than siding with one dictator or another.


General Fieldorf was a soldier, obeying orders was his job. Politicians are responsible for making such policy, which will not end with the massslaughter of their people.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2016 at 06:31
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Ask yourself, Mosquito, if General Fieldorf for one second would have considered that it might have been better to have sided with the germans. My guess is that he would have strongly said an emphatic no. Staying true to Polish values rather than siding with one dictator or another.


General Fieldorf was a soldier, obeying orders was his job. Politicians are responsible for making such policy, which will not end with the massslaughter of their people.

Obviously, you believe that a hero of your people who Polish people look up to wouldn't have chosen to side with the Nazis if given the choice to turn back time. You try to dismiss your own Polish hero for politicians, so fine, how many of the Polish government in exile during the war are you aware of who would have rather sided with the Nazis, Mosquito?
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2016 at 07:52
Somtimes it is better to have no heroes. The Czechs didnt have many and their country wasnt obliterated.
My country always had so many heroes and for last two centuries it was being obliterated at least twice in every century. There were always millions of people who were not heroes but had to live somehow when their cities and homes were destroyed, when they lost all their property and were starving and when their children were dieing because of hunger and disaseas.

By the time we had the goverment on exile in London it was already too late to make any new choise. However even that time there were made some new German proposals. The case of Roman Czerniawski among other cases comes to mind.


Roman Czerniawski was a Polish airforce officer and the head of spy net in occupied France. After Germans occupied France the French had basicaly no real resistance movement. So the Polish secret services decided to create country wide organisation in France.

Roman Czerniawski was chosen for the commander of such organisation. He had hundrieds of French agents on the territory of the whole France.

In 1942 one of his French agents was captured by the German Abwehr and started to talk. In result Czerniawski was arrested by the Germans.

In the prison he was conctacted by Polish speaking German officer Oscar Reile. The case its not clear and most of the files about the case were destroyed while Czerniawski until the end of his life didnt say the whole truth, even in his book published after the war.

The facts are that instead of torturing and executing Czerniawski, Germans started negotiations with him.
It looks like Germans wanted to send personal message to Polish goverment in London and that Canaris made some proposals about future German-Polish cooperation against Soviet Union. Germans prepared the escape of Polish officer from their prison and helped him to get to Spain where from he went to Great Britain.
Since that moment Czerniawski was playing the role of double agent and played one of the key roles in making Germans belive that DD invasion will be in different place than Normandy.



Edited by Mosquito - 17-Apr-2016 at 14:30
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2016 at 11:02
Originally posted by Mosquito

Somtimes it is better to have no heroes. The Czechs didnt have many and their country was obliterated.
My country always had so many heroes and for last two centuries it was being obliterated at least twice in every century. There were always millions of people who were not heroes but had to live somehow when their cities and homes were destroyed, when they lost all their property and were starving and when their children were dieing because of hunger and disaseas.

By the time we had the goverment on exile in London it was already too late to make any new choise. However even that time there were made some new German proposals. The case of Roman Czerniawski among other cases comes to mind.


Roman Czerniawski was a Polish airforce officer and the head of spy net in occupied France. After Germans occupied France the French had basicaly no real resistance movement. So the Polish secret services decided to create country wide organisation in France.

Roman Czerniawski was chosen for the commander of such organisation. He had hundrieds of French agents on the territory of the whole France.

In 1942 one of his French agents was captured by the German Abwehr and started to talk. In result Czerniawski was arrested by the Germans.

In the prison he was conctacted by Polish speaking German officer Oscar Reile. The case its not clear and most of the files about the case were destroyed while Czerniawski until the end of his life didnt say the whole truth, even in his book published after the war.

The facts are that instead of torturing and executing Czerniawski, Germans started negotiations with him.
It looks like Germans wanted to send personal message to Polish goverment in London and that Canaris made some proposals about future German-Polish cooperation against Soviet Union. Germans prepared the escape of Polish officer from their prison and helped him to get to Spain where from he went to Great Britain.
Since that moment Czerniawski was playing the role of double agent and played one of the key roles in making Germans belive that DD invasion will be in different place than Normandy.

Kind of wondering what a national identity is without its heroes, Mosquito. Are there many cultures who don't pass on their moral compass with the use of stories involving heroes? Maybe your interpretation of what makes people heroes differs to mine.

Yes, I know a little of the story of Roman Czerniawski. A brave man, a hero. He knew very well how the Nazis were trying to dupe the Polish people, and used that knowledge on the overinflated Nazi ego. At times, he wasn't treated well. The spy ring in France had many obstacles to overcome. Roman found it incredibly difficult to recruit the French as they tended to not trust the Pole, or maybe it was Poles in general. This tended to be a problem in many places and not just in France. I believe it was his French handler who after being caught gave information which had him captured. The greatest shame, I think, though I guess not that surprising under the circumstances is that he came under suspicion on his return to Britain where for a period of time he was watched and given low tasks. I believe his stance was pretty disparaging against both the Nazis and the Soviets, not trusting either. 
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2016 at 14:29
I made an error, I wanted to say that "The Czechs didnt have many and their country was not obliterated " while it was before I edited it written that it was obliterated.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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