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Ancient East Asian artefacts excavated in Alaska

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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ancient East Asian artefacts excavated in Alaska
    Posted: 10-Mar-2016 at 16:42
A team of archeologists has excavated bronze and other artefacts in Alaska that can be 
traced to East Asian bronzeworking cultures. The site and artefacts are dated to 
c. 1000 AD and earlier and are said to reflect precolumbian trade routes between Asia 
and the " New World ".



Evidence of Pre-Columbus Trade Found in Alaska House

by Owen Jarus, Live Science Contributor   |   April 16, 2015 06:39am ET


Bronze artifacts discovered in a 1,000-year-old house in Alaska suggest  trade was 
occurring between East Asia and the New World centuries before the voyages of Columbus.

Archaeologists found the artifacts at the "Rising Whale" site  at Cape Espenberg.

The new discoveries, combined with other finds made over the past 100 years suggest 
trade items and ideas were reaching Alaska from East Asian  civilizations well before
 Christopher Columbus  arrived in the Caribbean Sea in 1492 archaeologists said.


"We're seeing the interactions, indirect as they are, with these 
so-called 'high civilizations' of China, Korea or Yakutia," a region in Russia,
Mason said.

Bronze and obsidian
The Rising Whale discoveries include two bronze artifacts, one of which 
may have originally been used as a buckle or fastener. It has a piece of leather 
on it that radiocarbondates to around A.D. 600 (more tests will take place in the future). 
The other bronze artifact may have been used as a whistle.

Bronze-working had not been developed at this time in Alaska, so archaeologists
think the artifacts would have been manufactured in China, Korea or Yakutia,  and made their 
way to Alaska through trade routes.

Also inside that house, researchers found the remains of obsidian artifacts, which 
have a chemical signature that indicates the obsidian is from the  Anadyr River valley in Russia.

Trade routes
The recent discoveries at the Rising Whale site add to over a century of research  that
indicates trade routes connected the Bering Strait (including the Alaskan side)  with the 
civilizations that flourished in East Asia before Columbus' time. 

In 1913, anthropologist Berthold Laufer published............


For the whole article including pictures :



The find is another refutation of the mantra that No Old World artefacts have been found
in a good archaeological context in the Americas ( besides the Norse) .


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Edited by Sander - 10-Mar-2016 at 17:09
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2016 at 19:29
Excellent.

The academic mainstream tenet; that pre Columbian exploration interaction and cultural diffusion...(a position once so prevalent)...was minimal. Has faded into obscurity as a result of finds such as this and many, many, many others.

There are very few hardliners left.

But even idiots are required on occasion.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 10-Mar-2016 at 19:30
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2016 at 05:26
This was possible, a trade route existed in the north east Asia, during that period.

even in the 7 century, it was the Tang China, natives from Kamchatka  visited  Xi' an, the imperial capital of China, from then on, we believed that trade was carried out between the natives of North east Asia,  as well as Chinese, Korean and Japanese. natives from the north east Asia sold furs to the Chinese, while the latter exported different kinds of artifact to the former, and the natives of the North East Asia might collect Furs from Alaska, exchanging those Chinese artifact for furs, so these artifact would appear in Alaska.

But this does not mean that Chinese had reached Alaska.


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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2016 at 19:53
Originally posted by tommy

This was possible, a trade route existed in the north east Asia, during that period.

even in the 7 century, it was the Tang China, natives from Kamchatka  visited  Xi' an, the imperial capital of China, from then on, we believed that trade was carried out between the natives of North east Asia,  as well as Chinese, Korean and Japanese. natives from the north east Asia sold furs to the Chinese, while the latter exported different kinds of artifact to the former, and the natives of the North East Asia might collect Furs from Alaska, exchanging those Chinese artifact for furs, so these artifact would appear in Alaska.

But this does not mean that Chinese had reached Alaska.



 

What do you think was the ancient Chinese name for Kamchatka ?  

As you probably know,  several places have been described east /north-east of China, like : Ta-Han ( Great-Han) , Wen-Shin ( Tattoo/Marked People ) and several others.  

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Edited by Sander - 25-May-2016 at 19:56
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2016 at 05:57
It was called " 流鬼 " (liú gu'), it meant the flowing people, in the tang historical document, might be at the tang period, people in the Kamchatka were fishermen?
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2016 at 23:07
Originally posted by tommy

It was called " 流鬼 " (liú gu'), it meant the flowing people, in the tang historical document, might be at the tang period, people in the Kamchatka were fishermen?
 


I read somewhere that some suggest that Kamchatka was Ta-Han while others suggest Liu-Kuei ( I assume the author used an older spelling system and that it's the same as your liú gu'  ) Anyway, this Liu-Kuei las said ( in the Long-wei-pi-shu) to be surrounded by the sea on three sides.  This fits the Kamtchatka peninsula.



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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2016 at 06:02
I believe that  tai han people would be the Inuit people, who lived( and live) in the Alaska, actually, "Inuits" means Good people, Great people, or honest people,  and in Chinese , the word" Tai-han" had the similarmeaning, it could be translated into " Great people", which was equal to the word" Inuits".
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2016 at 06:08
And the Wen-Shin ( Tattoo/Marked People ) would be the Ainu people, who lives in the Northern Japan, they have the habit od tattoo
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2016 at 19:14
I like the idea of the name Ta-han being related to the word Inuit ( which has a similar meaning ) and some researchers have indeed suggested that Ta-han refered to Alaska. But there are several things which argue against it: 


Ta-han is described ( quoted from Vining's book Inglorious Columbus, page 215  ) : 




TAHAN OF THE NORTH.

"We read in the Sing-tang-shu ( Supplement to the History of the Tang 
Dynasty a work published in the eleventh century of our era by
imperial order) :

 "  The Ta-han (of the north) live to the north of
the kingdom of Kio, or Kiai. They raise many sheep and horses.
The men of this kingdom are robust and of a great height, from
which fact the name Ta-han ( Great Chinese, or, in common
language, Tall Fellows )is derived. They are neighbours of
the Ke-Kia-sse (natives who live upon the shore of the lake Pehai,
or Baikal). In former times they had no relations with the
empire (of China), but in the years ching-Kuan and yong-hoei
(627-655) embassadors from their nation came once or twice
offering horses and marten's furs as tribute."  



The Northern Ta-han seems clearly somewhere in NE Asia. The same book also has a description of  Ta-han of the East ( 5000 li east of Wen-Shin ) but at this moment I don't think this was Alaska either. 

I agree Wen-shin was in northern Japan.

We haven't mentioned Fu-sang yet but I am sure that this was in the Americas. 




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Vining, Edward P. (1885) Inglorious Columbus; or, Evidence that Hwui Shan and a Party of Buddhist Monks from Afghanistan Discovered America in the Fifth Century, A.D.. New York: D. Appleton and Company. 










Edited by Sander - 01-Jun-2016 at 22:31
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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2016 at 06:50
Mexico, indeed, but not only mexico, in my opinion, other places of the western North America coast were also mentioned, so the passage described that people would raise deer(reindeer), as the people of China would raise cow, and this was the situation of the ancient Native people of what  would be  today western Canadian  coast(Yukon)
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