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Atlantis May have been in Bolivia

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Atlantis May have been in Bolivia
    Posted: 08-Mar-2016 at 17:26
This is the first article I've seen that separates the City from the Kingdoms.
It also lists the similarities between Plato's description and Bolivia. and the author doesn't have to jerk around with the time span, as does anyone that attempts to place Thera as Atlantis.


http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/832934-uyunis-mirror-mountains/
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2016 at 19:59
Sure why not.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2016 at 01:17
Yes as i have been saying for a couple of years now, which most people have been rejecting, we have found and proven that Atlantis capital city is Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku (and now add to that our recent discovery that the 3 cities of Asshur in Genesis 10 may also match 3 Peru/Bolivia cities including Tiahuanaco and Cuzco?). Yes others had also already more or less pinpointed the correct location as a  site Peru/Bolivia before us, they include Jim Allen, Mattievich, Weidner & Bridges, J Bailey, Donneley, Siebert, Dav Fasold, Dav Antelo, Zarate, Frank Joseph, M Ozorio, plus Ed Alex, T Morrison. Look up the Inca picture from the Coricancha and see that it has a number of details that are mentioned in the Atlantis Account such as the large rectangular plain with  criss-crossing channels, etc. ALso Andean masks with the Atlas pillar motif spade-like symbol above their head (some rising from the concentric circles city). My badly written Atlantis paper is at lifetradition.webs.com . Jim Allen has a site called Atlantis in Bolivia. I posted some of the above  mentioned pictures in Atlantis Online Forum in two threads/topics last year. The other 9 kingdoms may have been either in places through South America or in/around the Andes (the may is not as weak as sounds, we have/gave some evidences for them, just couldn't positively identify all of them. The capital city and 1st kingdom was definitely/positively around Tiahuanaco.) And/or they had colonies/bases between Tiahuanaco and Mediterranean (possibly including Heligoland, Tartessos/Huelva, Malta, Scheria, etc). But some people try to separate the city and the kingdoms totally so they can locate the city anywhere and so it is too small to find. Despite problems of incorrect/inaccurate/inadequite English translations of the original Greek, there are clear and Stark matches with Tiahuanaco and South America.

The Atlantis paper was deleted from my hdds when i got my computer &  hdds back from the shop! I searched all my files and it was definitely gone (i could be wrong though, i have to double check re one possible doubt but pretty sure). Not sure if he purposely deleted it or it was deleted by virus/antivirus. Luckily i recovered a copy from my website and now this time have plenty of extra backups.

It seems that Posnansky pretty much knew Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku/[Wanaku] is Atlantis city, though he used name Aztlan.
Sitchin's 'Lost Realms' gives alot of info on Andes cities in which i noticed  stark matches with Atlantis, though he did not seem to realise it himself.

low hill = Akapana
capital city = Tiahuanaco
the sea = Titicaca
large Plain ~ Altiplano
mountains = Andes
large island/continent = (South)America
"sinking/submergence" = pole shift or continental shift.

Many people say "it didn't sink", but the "sinking" could be either land down, water up, land/water sideways (continental shift or pole shift/crust displacment). Pole shift is pretty much accepted now, Tiahuanaco was once on the equator between 2 pole shifts. Major catastrophe evidences in Peru/Bolivia/Andes area....

As long as the truth gets out and as long as it isn't the status quo crimininals that subtly steal it and use it to serve their own interests. Jim Allen and co deserve their credit.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 09-Mar-2016 at 01:51
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2016 at 01:28
links to some pictures and bad-written notes:

http://picasaweb.google.com/seanbam2/Antipodean

www.condoramericano.com.ar/historia/Tiahuanaco.htm
www.labyrinthina.com/inca.altar01
www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/reinosperdidos/reinosperdidos10.htm
http://galacticdoor2011.blog.com/files/2011/12/gold-map-in-coricancha.jpg
http://f.tqn.com/y/archaeology/1/S/7/_/1/coricancha-altar.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bjmO_QlWUWg/T7Hgo3qHuOI/AAAAAAAAADw/QAxP_NQvw3Q/s320/Altar+de+Coricancha.jpg

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=290;image
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=288;image
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=284;image
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=287;image
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=281;image .
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=277;image
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33831.0;attach=282;image
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=33831.msg258213#msg258213
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=33831.msg258214#msg258214
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=33831.msg258222#msg258222
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,33831.15.html
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,33901.0.html
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,34543.0.html
http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=15853.75 (page 6) (posts 86, 88, 89)

https://2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com/atlantis-south-americatiahuanaco/

lifetradition.webs.com has our main most recent rewiritng of our rough paper
Atlantipedia are wrong in their criticisms of me and my theory/thesis, though they make some valid points about further evidences still needed for arch-sceptics to accept as proven.

The thread on Asshur cities was posted here a few days ago.

Sorry i remember now that the map at http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?132958-Historians-note-that-Odin-who-was-a-very-popular-Thracian-ruler-Thracians-a-hidden-history/ has been removed so skip that  one. (Plus beware that site has virus "ads" on it.)
Hope the other links pics/info are still there.
It now seems that i was wrong about Tarshish-Kittim matching Atlantis/SouthAmerica/Tiahuanaco at http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21830-table-of-70-nations-gen-10/ .



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 09-Mar-2016 at 01:39
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2016 at 05:29
Atlantis was a first Science Fiction novel. 
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2016 at 10:04
Sorry i might have possibly got it wrong about Posnansky calling it Aztlan, that might have been one of the other people that i listed who called it that. All the rest should be right though.

Its now being more and more seen to be science fact Med.

As i just updated in the cities of Asshur thread :
The cities of Peru/[Atlantis] seem to be connected with Meski-aggaseir/(Sagki-)Agushe-ir of Uruk 1 dynasty who penetrated the sea and went up into the mountains [Andes].
His son & successor in Sumer was Enmerkar.
Agushe & Enmerkar may be Cush & Nimrod. Aggusheir would seem to match Asshur of Genesis 10 in details & name?
Some identify the continent of Kusa in Hindu with South America.
Cush's sons in Genesis 10 have circular/concentric names-meanings.
[5 sons Cush ~ 5x2 sons Poseidon??]

havilah  "sand" "circular" "twisting/suffers pain". [Akapana??]
seba/sheba "seven/oath/sabbath" /"drunkard" /  "surrounds enterance"
sabta(h) "surrounded by clefts/fissures" "go about"
sabteca(h) "surrounded by what is laid down" "lead around"
[3 concentric circles of waterland??]

And the other son Raamah maybe connects with Atlantis/Poseidon and Rimac/Lima & Andes:
raamah "lofty/heights / thunder(ous)" "tremble/quake" "horse mane"

Sorry for me so readily jumping on the bait Red.

-----
To my AE friends: It looks like i may be going to loose my computer (& net/web) again (after i already lost it all of Jan & Feb for 8 weeks after a virus attack in dec against  me personally on purpose via a p.m. from a member on apricity forum). This time i won't be able to afford to get it back after being ripped-off $4700 in Jan-Feb for the virus attack repairs. I am not sure if someone has again attacked me with a virus (possibly on here) or other but it wouldn't surprise me as i have found many humans are absolute criminal swine (eg the meter reader breaking in by picking the door lock 3 weeks ago, poisoning/fluoridating the tap water, the virus attack, etc etc). The computer is having problems the last times i turn on/off (says is a "serious error"!). (It is either virus, or i did wrong copying some files from old hdds trying to secure quality of xp, or the computer shop tech rigged it, or because i turned it off once when on, or just something gone wrong being 2nd hand. Also i having heart pains again and may die, and also i may die from lack of water if i can't get decent door locks after the breakin (i can't drink the poison tap water, i have to be able to get artesian water, no one here will help). And obviously i am going to have to stay away from all forums now if lowlives ar going to attack me. (Why they don't attack the criminals in business and government etc rather than me i don't know.) (Not my fault i have been very careful.)  So I better post a few last bits in this and other threads now.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 13-Mar-2016 at 10:10
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2017 at 03:57

We had the idea to put our matches evidences in a table so that people will be able to more easily see what we see (since they said our writing is not easy to read/understand.
(Just in case people don't know or remember: our discovery thesis is that Atlantis capital city is Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku and Atlantis large island is (South) America and "sinking" was either Pole Shift or Continental Shift or only the city sank/swallowed not the whole.)

Identification details of Atlantis from Atlantis sources (esp "Plato", Kirchir, etc)

Matches of historical physical details of Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku and Peru/Bolivia and (South) America from relevant sources (esp archaeology, art, mythology, etc).

Person in the Account says it is "true history" and not just ideal. The spring at Athens was found just like the Account says. In Berlitz's survey of 270 Atlantis authorities only 46 believed it never existed.

is true history (and fully matches Atlantis Account in all details).


where: direction: "west(ern)" (Proclus)

["3 islands of Zeus, Poseidon, Hades in west(ern sea)"?]

(pillars of Hercules.)

(Gadeira/Gades.)

(In Atlantic.)

("days sail from Libya".)

(Conquered "upto Tyrrhenia & Libya")

(Atlas Mtns.)

Kirchir's map has Atlantis in Atlantic in West.

["Thoth was born in a distant country to the west...."]

Atlantic Ocean & South America are in the Western Hemisphere, and are west of Egypt and Greece.

Atlas mountains in farthest west Africa.

Atlantis "days sail off from Libya/Africa".

Azores statue of man on horse pointing west with word cati/cates which means "this way" in Quechua (Inca).

Prehistoric cultures of Western Europe appeared on Atlantic coast.

Strabo's extension of Spain.

Stonehenge damaged on south-west side.

Western Hemisphere has more water (Poseidon/Atlantis) than Eastern one.

[Tuat/Amenti/Urani/Aaru in west?]

[Kittim "westerners"?]

[Tartessos is also western.]

direction:

"then under the sun"

"facing south", "sheltered from north wind"

"days sail off from Africa/Libya".

"from next Libya"

[~ Hyperborea beyond north wind?]

[Egyptian "up/top" was south.]

"Necho's fleet went south (looking for Atlantis)"?]

["North Sea Peoples"? From "9th bow/arc".]

Atlas mountains are in Africa not in Europe/Spain, suggesting Atlantis by Africs not Europe? Atlas Mts in Africa mirror Andes in South America.

Atlantis was "days sail off from Africa" [rather than off from Europe].

Azores statue of man on horse pointing west with word cati/cates which means "this way" in Quechua (Inca).

Tiahuanaco was on equator in a previous poles position map, maybe matching Atlantis as "then under the sun"?

South America centred further east than North America. Africa sticks out further west than Europe/Spain.

in front/mouth of / facing/opposite/beyond/outside/inside the Pillars/strait(s) of Hercules, not within/inside pillars (Timaeus 24d, 25a, 25b, 25d, Critias 108e, 114c, 114d).

"the whole of the land which is within the straits".

Scholar claims the original Greek really says the Atlanteans "came from in to out" (not from out to in).

[The 'sea peoples' came "from the pillars/pillar of heaven".]

There were "12 Pillars of Hercules".

[Herodotus has Tartessos & Celts beyond Pillars of Hercules at Gibraltar?]

It seems that there were pillars at the eastern and western limits of the Greek own world? [Egyptians had 4 pillars of the firmament/heaven.] (Greek & Egyptian known world knew Tartessos, Masilia, Gades (Necho's fleet).)

Pillars of Hercules = "farthest point" : "... so now Theron reaches the farthest point by his own native excellence; he touches the pillars of Heracles."

[Atlantipedia says the Pillars of Hercules were also known as Pillars of Briareus, and Plutarch places Briareus near Ogygia. The "tall pillars" were kept on the island of Calypso/Ogygia (in the Odyssey) which some think is Azores?]

Hercules in his 12 labours traveled as far as Erythia, Libya, Atlas, & the Hesperides in the far west (and Hades).

Some think Caphtor/Kaptara is related to capital/kapita "of pillar/column". Kaptara was "where the pole star stands at zenoth.]

[Aesir means "pillars of the world".]

Pillars named "Calpe" & "Abyla/Abila".

"Shu = Hercules". Hercules = Melkarth. Gilgamesh ~ Hercules?

Hercules 17000 or 900 yrs.

It is said that the original language text implies were commenoratuve stelae/markers/slabs not supportive columns/pillars.

Peru in west coast of South America is on farthest west edge of World.

There are massive pillars at the bottom of the Milne-Edwards deep off the coast of Peru?

The pillars of Kalasas(a)ya? Kalasas(a)ya name means "standing pillars" or "stone standing up"? Column-like figures in Tiwanaku sculpture?

Tiahuanaco is between 2 main peaks of local mountains (Illampu/Sorata and Illimani).

"hitching post of the sun" (Macchu Picchu [which some link with twin peaked Mt Mashu])?

The 2 pillars are maybe seen flanking Atlas world pillar in one/some Andean picture/s?

The "candelabra" trident of Paracas?

There are 2 colossal busts or 2 stone idols at Tiahuanaco? [Perhaps note the 2 rocks "father" & "mother" left after the Flood in Zuni? Maybe compare Kame & Keri of Caribs?]

There are 2 straits in lake Titicaca that could possibly correspond to the straits of Gibraltar & pillars of Hercules?

Or the world tree/pillar may be connected with South American fan palm which is seen in picture of Toakkari Sea Peoples?

Ancient version of Panama canal at Tehuantepec?

South America is opposite the pillars at Tartessos/Huelva/Gades/Gibraltar in some map projections.

[Iber & Celtus were sons of Hercules.]

[daughter of Atlas.]

where: distance:

Atlanteans were "unmixed with other mortal stock" (Critias 121); "at a distant point in the Atlantic"; "invaders" (Timaeus 25d). "from next Libya to Egypt"?

"on same fault line as Athens" & "cant' have been too far from Athens/Sais" (modern impressions of Plato's Account)?

the Pillars of Hercules were "the farthest point".

"at the ends of the earth", "remotest" (Dio Sic 3:56.)

Diodorus Siculus says Atlantis was "out in deep off Libya a number of days sail to west / many days sailing across the Atlantic".

"a remote land in the middle of the ocean" Timagenes.

"not far to the west of Europe" Proclus.

["50 stades (500 miles)" Plutarch?]

["5 days sail west of Britain".]

[Atlas holds up the Heavens &/or the Earth.]

[The Sea Peoples were: "from the ends of the world/earth", "great darkness", "9th bow/arc", "the isles and mainland of the outer circle of water" / "the great water circle [sin-wur]", "from the pillars/pillar of heaven", had "a great fleet of sailed-ships with arching prows at each end, in the shape of bird-heads.... ... the sailed ships of the Peleset were overwhelmed by the slave-oared Egyptian river craft...."]

["the Phaeacians had ... clippers that carry them across far-flung seas" (Odyssey 7.)]

[Some think Atlantis ~ Tartessos, & some think Tatessos ~ Tarshish which was across a sea "2000 parasangs wide".]

Peru in the new world in the western hemisphere, in the west side of South America, in the tropic of capricorn latitutde band in the southern hemisphere is the one most remotest high culture/civililsation of the world's civilisations. Critics who claim that our Atlantis location is too far are actually saying same words that the Atlantis account says.

Azores statue of man on horse pointing west with word cati/cates which means "this way" in Quechua (Inca).

"The seas/oceans were highways not barriers". Popul Vuh says "the 1st race explored the 4 corners of the Earth". "Sea power came before land power" in geopolitics. "You shall understand... that about 3000 yrs ago, or somewhat more (ca 1500 bc), the navigation of the world, especially for remote voyages, was greater than at this day. Do not think with yourselves that i know not how much it is increased with you within these 6 score yrs; i know it well; and yet i say, greater than now. So you see by this main accident of time we lost our traffic with the Americas... As for other parts of the world, it is most manifest that in the ages following ... navigation did everywhere greatly decay, and esp for far voyages." - Sir Francis Bacon 'New Atlantis'.

South America is centred further east than North America, and Africa sticks out further than Europe/Spain.

If there was a continental shift then the Atlantic may have before then been anywhere upto half the current width?

Atlantis Account may imply invasion was over a long time period?

invaded/conquered upto Tyrrhenia/Greece & Libya/Egypt

South America fits as being outside and west of the Western & Eastern Mediterranean sea, and west of Europe & Libya/Africa & Asia.

Heliolithic/Megalithic culture is found in alot of places around the world including Peru. South American fan palm held by Toakkari Sea Peoples in Assyrian depiction.

The Atlantis Account may imply that the invasion was over a long time period?

war with Egypt/Athens


size: Atlantis was one Large (whole) island landmass (Critias 114e, 115c), "not a needle in a haystack" (Hancock) :

Was "larger than (or between) Asia & Libya/Africa" (Timaeus 25a, Critias 109a) (excludes Europe). "= About same size as USA or Antarctica"? (USA is close to same size as Australia. Australia is close to same size as face of the Moon.) [Herodotus said Europe was larger than Asia & Libya, though says different in another place. Theopompus said Meropis was larger than Europe, Asia & Libya combined.]

Says "whole island" (Timaeus 25b, Critias 113d, 114b, [115c,] 118a-118b, 118b), "rest of the country" (Critias 119b), &, "mid-point of (the longest side of) the island" (Critias 119d).

Had a large plain (Critias 118b), and other plains too (Critias 115a), and meadows (Critias 118c).

"both in city and country" Critias 114e.

Had many (& highest) mountains (Critias 115a, 118a-118b, 118c, 118d-118e).

Had 10 kings regions (Critias 113d, 114a, 114b, 114c, 116d, 119c, 119d).

Had many species of animals (Critias 115a, 117c, 118c), including elephants (Critias 115a).

Had large population (army) Critias 119b.

A number of cities/towns, & many villages (Critias 118c, 120d).

Was self-sufficient (Critias 114e, 115c).

Had (great) river(s) (Critias 115a, "118a"? 118c).

Had lakes (Critias 115a, 118c), & marshes/swamps (115a).

Had a number of mines localities (Critias 115a).

Controled a huge extant empire/sphere; "had rule over the whole island and several others".

Is called a "land" (Critias 115b, Timagenes).

Destroyed by major quake(s) (Timaeus 25d) & rain/deluge/flood(s) (Timaeus 23b), & leaving seemingly vast amount/size of mud/shoal (Timaeus 25e, Critias 109a)?

(South) America(s) is large enough to match, and is about the right size. New World / Americas are the 2nd largest land mass in world after the Old World (including Europe). Sizes of world's continents goes Asia, Africa, N America, S America, Antarctica, Europe, Australia.

[Americas also maybe more surrounding in map centered on Giza/Cairo?]

There is factual evidence that Andes have been raised higher and trench lower, which means S America may have been abit larger area previously?

(Americas are also between Asia in north-east and Libya/Africa in south/east?)

size: large island landmass (continued) :

"gods ... distributed the whole earth .... Poseidon receiving for his lot Atlantis" Critias 109b-109d, 113c-113d.

3 large island of Zeus/Jupiter/Ammon, Poseidon/Neptune/Atlantis, & Hades/Pluto, and 7 smaller islands of Persephone/Proserpine.

"... 7 islands ... and 3 others of great size ... a 1000 stadia in area...." Proclus.

"island equal in size to Libya or Asia" Tertullian.

"... memory of a larger island" Proclus.

"a large island was swallowed up" Marcellinus.

Kirchir's spurious map shows Atlantis as a large island.

[Sea Peoples came from "the isles and mainland of the outer circle of water".]

(South) America(s) is large enough to match, and is about the right size. New World / Americas are the 2nd largest land mass in world after the Old World (including Europe).

3 large islands in western ocean/sea might possibly match N America, S America, & Antarctica?

[The continent Maurigosima of king Peiru-un in Chinese may match America/Peru & Atlantis?]




was an (large) (whole) "island"/nesos.

[Sea Peoples came from "the isles and mainland of the outer circle of water".]

(South) America qualifies (now/then) as an "island"(-continent). (Also, if there was a continental shift then South America may have been even more so an island before shift?)

("Island" in ancient Greek, Egyptian, Biblical, etc can be either island, continent, coastland(s), peninsula, Australia, planet, old world "world island", pangaea.)

[There may be confusion of Atlantis island-continent and Atlantis royal island capital city?]

was separate "large(r)" "whole" "island" landmass to "Europe & Libya/Africa", "Asia & Libya/Africa", "Europe & Asia" in "Plato", Kircher, etc.

"Larger than (or between) Asia & Libya/Africa".

"all those who dwelt/lived outside/inside the pillars".

"against the whole of Europe & Asia".

[Meropis was lsrger than Europe, Asia & Libya.]

"days sail off from Libya/Africa".

South America is a separate (large) landmass to the Old World.

"sinking"/"swallowing" & disappearance of nesos/island in the talassa/sea after/during "terrible quake(s) & flood(s)", pelagos/sea/ocean there impassable (Timaeus 25d-e).

"for in those days the Atlantic was navigable" Timaeus 25a.

sunk/overwhelmed by quake, mud prevents from hence to sea/ocean beyond (Critias 109a).

"can't be geologically impossible", "can't be land based theories"?

"There was a single spring in ... [Athens] that was subsequently choked by the earthquakes..." Crit 112e.

"... then still under/beneath the sun..." Critias 115c. / "change in path of the sun".

(Tim 21a, 22b, 22c-d, 22e, 23a, 23b, 23c, 23d; Crit 111b.)

Philo says "in 1 day & night overwhelmed beneath sea in extraordinary earthquake(s) and flood(s)".

"... memory of a larger island" Proclus.

"a large island was swallowed up" - Marcellinus?

["a serpent populace was destroyed by a "star falling from the heavens". Only one survived on an island "destined to be completely submerged". - Leningrad Papyrus.]

[the Sea Peoples "islands are uprooted and carried away .... The might of Nun (the Ocean) broke forth and fell in a great wave upon their towns and villages" (also that the head of their cities was submerged). ("Their forests and fields are burnt with fire." "The heat of him has burnt their countries." "The fire of Sekhmet has burnt the lands of the 9 bows/arcs." "As mighty fire was prepared before them." "They had before them a sea of flame.")]

["There will come a time in the late age of the world when the ocean will relax its bonds over what it holds and land will appear in its glory Thetis will uncover new continents and Thule will no longer be at the edge of the world" - Seneca.]

["When the world is pregnant with lies, a secret long hidden will be revealed" - Odinist prophecy.]

Atlantis can not be both a continent and literally sunken/submerged because there are none in the oceans (& is "geologically impossible"). So either Atlantis wasn't a continent, or the "sinking" isn't literal, or only the city sank not the whole large island. There is definitely no doubt that Atlantis was a large land mass (see entry on large size). There is doubt from the different translations wordings about the correct interpretation/view/application of all the verses related to the "sinking". We also know from other things in the world that things aren't always to be taken over-literally, eg in Joshua's "halting the sun" it wasn't the sun that stopped but was the Earth; the Celts "sky fall on head".

If Atlantis "sank/submerged" then either the land went down (subsided/sank/sunk), or the water went up (submerged, flood), or the land/water went side ways (Pole Shift, Continental Shift, axis tilt, expanding earth theory, sea slosh, tidal wave / "tsunami"). The 3 only-best fit scenarios for Atlantis "sinking" are Pole Shift, &/or Continental Shift, &/or only the city "sank"?

Pole Shifts theory has had growing scholarly evidences & support in recent decades (Hapgood, Einstein, Velikovsky, Flem-Ath, us, etc). Peru/Tiahuanaco figures in pole shift maps, in which the area was on the equator in one poles position map.

The Inca picture from the Coricancha has at the top 2 + & X compass points crosses, which might relate to pole shift?

There is also evidence that Andes raised higher (= Continental Shift?)

Archaeological evidence of quakes at Tiahuanaco, and of a "flood" there.

'Unu Pachacuti' "water overturns land" (Peru/Bolivia).

[Also maybe compare seismic upheaval & stars fell to earth of Washo myth?]

"same faultline as Athens"?

Pole Shift / Crust Displacement? Continental Shift / Plate tectonics?

"change in path of the sun" (Phaethon)?

"then under the sun".

Pole Shift? Peru was on the equator in one poles position map in pole shifts maps.

The Inca picture from the Coricancha has at the top 2 + & X compass points crosses, which might relate to pole shift?

terrible quake(s) & flood(s).

Poseidon is also god of earth & quakes.

Atlas (mountains) holds up earth & sky.

Pole Shift? Or, Continental Shift? And, seas/oceans slosh over land? Sources give undeniable evidences that the Andes were quickly raised higher within lifetime of humans & civilization (refs Velikovsky, Berlitz, Lissner, Fasold, Darwin, etc).

Evidence of quakes in Tiahuanaco includes cracked 'gate(way) of the sun' ; "broken megaliths"? "blocks tossed/scattered"?

Cerro santo vilca / Pampa Aullagas has earthquake damage on west.

Pacha-camac "earth maker"?

There is archaeological evidence of a "Flood" that flooded Tiahuanaco and south of Titicaca (refs D Fasold, J Allen).

"an avalanche/flood of water, and a sudden upheaval of unknown nature"; "... many more still lie buried in the ground under layers of sediment from ... flooding from Lake Titicaca."

Peruvian Tiahuanaco flood myth. 'Unu Pachacuti' "water overturns land"

(Sea salt petrified remains at Bogota?)

"mud(dy sea)"/"shoal"

[Shoal of Sesostris?]

'llullaillaco' llulla + yacu "dirty water" ; "mud that floats" (Uros)? mud in the Uros floating islands area near Puno? "... many more still lie buried in the ground under layers of sediment from ... flooding from Lake Titicaca." Tiahuanaco is no longer connected with waters of Titicaca as it once was.

Sargasso sea? "mucky water Bermuda"? sea floor sediments (Atlantic)? Bermuda triangle? banks/bars/rises in Atlantic like Brendan's whale?

Caused by pole shift, or by continental shift?

Other American deluge myths may also confirm mud:

aggregations green scum / expanse slippery mud (Zuni);

mud banks (Hopi);

great expanse of fetid mud (Chiriguano);

mud (Crow)? clay (Creek)? red clay (Cree)?

in the "real ocean", not within/inside smaller Mediterranean sea (Plato/Timaeus, Dio. Sic., Aelian, Timagenes, Flem-Ath, Spanuth) ; "Those who live on the shores of Okeanos tell a fable of how the ancient kings of Atlantis...." (Aelian.)

[the "Sea Peoples" (N-pa-iam) came from "the isles and mainland of the outer circle of water" / "the great water circle (sin-wur)".]

is in the ocean not in the Mediterranean sea.

The Pacific Ocean? Water hemisphere is centred on Pacific. Southern & Eastern Hemispheres have more water than North & West Hemispheres.

where: (a distant point) in the "Atlantic ocean/sea/pelagos". ["thalassa"?]

[Herodotus between time of Solon & of Plato has Atlantic in same place as we have it?]

(Poseidon god of sea/water.)

The real/Atlantic ocean/sea may be on either or both sides of Atlantis/America, and South America qualifies as being in the Atlantic Ocean &/or Pacific Ocean &/or Antarctic Ccean &/or World Ocean.

(Some sources say that the Mediterranean had a number of pelagoses in it and that the Atlantic pelagos was the one outer one, which outs Atlantic in the Atlantic ocean outside of the Mediterranean proper.)

It seems from its use in some sources that the word pelagos can mean or be used for open/deep ocean/sea and not necessarily just small/shallow inner/inland sea?

If there was a continental shift then the Atlantic ocean may have been abit/alot narrower then?

However, the Atlantic pelagos might instead match lake Titicaca (which was once a sea in ancient times) rather than the Atlantic?

[Atlantis large island had an inland sea? Or, was "near the ocean"]

Lake Titicaca was once a sea in ancient times, and is one of the few major inland seas/lakes in the whole world.

The salt / sand in Coipasa/Uyuni / Uruuru/Poopo area? Salinas?

Raised beaches Ancon? Peru fauna related to Pacific fauna (ref Lissner)?

reason for the invasion; (Phaethon?)


10 (5 x 2) kings of Atlantis large island.

[12 kings of Scheria/Phaeacia.]

[10 countires Mu.]

["13 Greeks descended from Hercules" (Plutarch)?]

[5 stones Stonehenge]

[Compare 10 bows/arcs of world in Egyptian? 12 parts of Amenti?]

Viracocha adopted 5 pairs of twin sons.

5 figures flanking either (right & left) side of central figure on Tiahuanaco 'Gateway of the Sun'.

10 months x/of 29 days calendar (Peru)?

9/10 [icons/sephiroth] in Coricancha altar picture?

10 kings Taycanamo dynasty,

10 communities on Amantani,

10 kings Naymlap to Fempellec / "10th king after Naymlap"?

10 walled citadels/enclosures/structures/districts Chan Chan (Marcahuamachuco).

terrace of 10 niches Ollantaytambo/[Tiahuanaco?],

"larger islands of the Uros house about 5-6 or 10 families".

About 10 on the crown of Tata_Pancho?

10 ships Paraiba inscription (Kolosimo)?

10 headed snake Amazon (ref Kolosimo),

5-toed foot on Calango stone?

[Next door: fleet of 10 Canoes in Maori/Polynesian?]

pairs of twins

Viracocha adopted 5 pairs of twin sons.

King and nobles of Chanchan (Chimu) "descended from 2 stars".

Chucuito ruled by 2 equipotent chiefs,

Little ceramic stone bulls on rooftops always in pairs?

Federation of villages each divided into 2 moities,

2 groups hananzaia & hurinzaia, or arasaya & masaya at Tiwanaku and in dancers festival.

Flanking pair/twins in female figure of Crespi collection?

2 creatures in the concentric circles in the El Dragon picture (Chanchan, ref 'Vanished Civilisations')?

Tupi & Guarani? Witoto & Zaparo? Quechua & Aymara? Yahgan & Ona?

2 cities Huari/Wari & Tiwanaku/Tiahuanaco?

Quat & Iae?

"Bachue always bore quadruplets or sextuplets"?

2 [pillars?] flanking spade symbol [Atlas world pillar motif?]

bulls (sacrifice)

little ceramic stone bulls on house rooftops everywhere in lake Titicaca (ref tourist girls travel photos & captions).

bull god at Chavin (ref Sitchin 'lost realms')?

communities worship bull at Pucara/near Puno on Titicaca?

"bull(s) of Pucara"?

standing on a bull in a stone carving sw of Titicaca?

Raimondi monolith deity's face of a bull (Sitchin)?

El Lanzon anthropomorphised bull face (Sitchin)?

"Alpha"?

seated [bull-like] "deer" figure carrying a club (Peru, ref Larouse world mythology).

horned animal sacrificing a human (Sipan pottery, ref Reader's Digest 'Vanished civilisations').

"pottery cow" / cow shaped vase / cow sacrificed & entrails put in vase (fertility ceremonies, Peru, ref Larousse).

Supay (god of death) costume in festival has horns.

Jim Allen contends that "bulls" = animals = llamas.

type/way of (bull) sacrifice (clubs, slit throat, dismember, drink blood from gold cups)

llama sacrifice (Allen 'Atlantis in Bolivia').

seated [bull-like] "deer" figure carrying a club (Peru, ref Larouse world mythology).

horned animal sacrificing a human (Sipan)

cow sacrificed & entrails put in vase (fertility ceremonies, Peru, ref Larousse).

"Urus ancestors sacrificed by invaders"?

"captives throat cut, blood caught in goblet, offered goblet to ruler who drank the blood" (Sipan).

sacrifical victims dismembered and strings tied around limbs so they could be hung up as trophies Sipan.

golden bowls/goblets Chimu.

elephants [African or Asian/Indian or prehistoric American]

South &/or North America has physical finds of remains of elephants, mastodons, toxodons (refs Jim Allen, Hancock, etc).

Peru/Bolivia had toxodon &/or mastodon, eg: Mastodon at Tarija. Sea salt petrified mastodon near Bogota.

There are also pictures of elephants in American art. MacKenzie says one picture is of an "Indian" elephant. Elephants seen in the Crespi collection.

"age of giant tapirs" (Tiahuanaco)?

"Alpha"?

The orthodox prehistoric ascribed dates are only theory not proven fact, and they conflict with ancient accounts & evidences.

"... every kind of animal domesticated and wild.... For there was plenty of grazing ... for all creatures whose habitat is marsh, swamp and river, mountain or plain."

"under Titicaca animal varieties not found anywhere else in world".

"Madidi national park richest biodiversity in world"?

Urquchillay god of animals?

Prehistoric/ancient North &/or South Americas had all the sorts of animals implied in Atlantis account including elephants, mastodons, toxodons, horses, giant sloths, sabre toothtigers, llamas, alpaca, camels, new world monkeys, buffalo, pigs, [dinosaurs,] puma, coyote, rheas/ratites, etc. There are mass extinctions sites from Alaska to Mexico, and Bogota to ....

metals: oreichalc, gold, silver, tin.

"Gold, Silver, Oreichalc". "brass, tin, oreichalc".

The Atlantis accounts say or(e)ichalc was a metal that was mined/natural, and it was also smelted/invented (made from combining calmia/zinc-oxide or pseudarguros/zinc and chalcos/copper). Oreichalc is said to have been "reddish" and/or "gleaming/sparkled like fire". One source says there was a white oreichalc.

[Compare findrine in Celtic.]

Oreichalc means "gold/gleaming/superior, or mountain, +, chalcos/copper/bronze, or belonging to heaven, or calcos/gold, or colchicum/iron-ore". [Compare Chang San-feng "alchemist residing in the mountains" of Chinese?]

aor panchalkon in the Odyssey.

Aurichalcit is "brass" in modern Greek. Oreichalc of Atlantis is considered by Zangger to be brass. [Ormolu?] [Bellamy?] said orichalc is "not bronze". Atlantis is said to have been bronze/brazen/brass age.

Some say orichalc was also name of artifical alloy of gold, silver & copper [compare Corinthian bronze?]

[Jesus feet were oreichalc/"brass" in Revelation/Apocalypse, and some temple artefacts were oreichalc in Josephus.]

[The meaning of name of Tarshish in bible may possibly be linked with oreichalc?]


the Andes is renowned as being one of the World's few major locations of copper/tin & gold deposits and mining (Collins Atlas).

Urcaguary god of metals.

"metalic objects especially copper & bronze at Tiawanaku".

Evidences that Akapana/Tiahuanco was a copper/bronze/tin/zinc smelting/mining centre (small green pebbles, retaining boulders/walls turned green, meaning of name, ref Sitchin 'Lost Realms').

Titicaca name may be from titi(kala) "(stone/rock of) a metal - either lead or tin", and may mean "tin/lead crag/rock"?

"gold is a by-product of copper/zinc production".

Tiwanaku ~ Anaku "tin" (Mesopotamian land)?

Andes ~ antis "copper"?

"red gold fever", Chuquicamata, Peru/Bolivia/Chile (ref Jim Allen / wiki)?

Tumbaga "gilded-copper/gold-copper" alloy "very popular among many Andean cultures" (J Allen).

gilded-copper of Sipan (Readers Digest).

AuAgCu of Chavin (Mattievich).

Peruvian "mythology" mentions 3 metals/castes of gold, silver and copper.

Copper metallurgy Norte Chico.

Crespi collection includes brass/tin/zinc & some gold (Daniken).


Sheet gold Chavin? sheet metal Chimu? ? Ternary (copper/arsenic/nickel) bronze I-shaped cramps, poured molten metal cramps [Tiwanaku]?


The "golden mother" goddess. Cori "gold".


"unusual alloys" in America [similar to "unusual alloys" in Africa] (Jantsang &/or other lost unrecorded source).

"Bronze Age America" (Barry Fell)?

mines/mining

The upside-down spade symbol in Andean art might represent either mining (metal) or digging (rings)?

had a number of cities/towns/villages (Critias 114e, 118c, 120d).

Peru/Bolivia, Andes, & (South) Americas has lots of ancient cities/towns/villages (unlike some other proposed "Atlantis" locations), eg: Tiahuanaco, Cuzco, Juli, Macchu Picchu, Kotosh, Stede Citades, etc. There are some in the mountains just like Atlantis Account says.

The 7 dots in Inca picture from Coricancha might be 7 cities or islands?

high culture/civilisation

Peru/Bolivia/Andes does have lots of archaeological remains of ancient civilisation thereabouts (unlike some other proposed "Atlantis" locations) Peruvian is one of the only 2 civilisation areas in Americas (of Peru and Mexico). Andes is the oldest farming and civilisation site in the whole of the Americas. Andean high culture is among the few of the oldest civilisations of the ancient world (along with Egypt, Sumer, Indus, China). Flem-Ath's book gives evidence that the first farming and civilisations tended to appear in high places like the Andes.

large (& high density) population (army) (Critias 119b).

Geoglyphs in the altiplano and south of Titicaca suggest there was more population there then.

[I think i have seen evidences that Tiahanaco/Tiwanaku having larger/denser population in ancient times, tho I'm not certain?] "100 circular "domestic units"- or living quarters - underground at the site".

[I think i have memory and notes somewhere of finds a few years ago that Amazon had more farming population then (may've been from National Geographic on twitter)?]

faced south, sheltered from north wind

[Hyperboreans "beyond the north wind"?]

[Hypernotians (Herodotus)?]

The Titicaca/Tinajani/Altiplano/Andes area is partially on diagonal angle facing south-west. Flem-Ath said that the (w?) coast of (N?) America faced south in a previous pole shift map.

If there was a continental shift then South America may have rotated abit?

Inca picture from Coricancha shows at the top two + & X compass crosses which suggests catastrophic change in compass points, and also may be connected with the "north wind" / "faced south" of Atlantis Account? (Chakana "Southern Cross".)

In pole shift maps Peru/Bolivia was once on the equator in a previous pole position map, which might put them beyond the north wind?

Tiwanaku is on the south side end of Lake Titicaca.

mid-point of longest side of island

Peru/Bolivia is mid-point of longest side of South America (or mid-point of combined 3 landmasses of Americas & Antarctica).

on the sea side of the island; towards the islands; near the ocean;

Peru/Bolivia is on the Pacific Ocean/Islands side of South America, and is on the Titicaca side of South America. Tiahauanco is near Lake Titicaca (ancient sea), and is near Pacific Ocean.

(fairest, beautiful & fertile) large rectangular plain (surrounded by mountains) Critias 113d, [114b,] 118b-c, 118c-119b.

Were also other "plains" in Atlantis (Critias 115a).

"at its midpoint 2000 stades in breadth from the coast" (Lee translation)?

("Atlantis had a network of canals not ever seen/found in Europe".)


Not many candidates for the plain in the world.

Modern photos of Peru localities give impression of evident remnant beauty and fertility that would have been more so before ancient Atlantis/Andes catastrophe and geo-climatic changes. Peru had a Pacific climate before Andes suddenly rose higher (and before air/water currents changed).

The large plain of Atlantis is found in Peruvian/Bolivian both in the physical geography and in local art etc.

In physical geography: "the valley or plateau on which Tiahuanaco is situated. Nowhere else all around the lake is there such a level plateau."

"The site of Tiwanaku lies in a broad plain in the rio Tiwanaku valley one of several that cut back from the southern edge of lake Titicaca into the huge plateau of the Bolivian Altiplano."

"the plain of Tiahuanaco".

"the flat depression which was occupied by the lake and its southern shores".

"at the edge of a great plain basin".

"the whole great tableland of Peru and Bolivia ... with ... its own plains ...."

People say that our Peru/Bolivia area is a "plateau", which means high flat (like a raised plain).

There is the present Altiplano (with geoglyphs).

"the plain in which the lake [Titicaca] is situated".

The uplifting higher of the Andes may have altered the geography somewhat.

Local art etc: Large rectangular plain depicted in Inca picture from the Coricancha matches Atlantis large rectangular plain.

Rehoboth-Ir "broad places of the city/river" of Genesis 10 seems to match both the plain of Atlantis and the "altiplano" of Tiahuanaco.

[Also compare map of Raleigh's "Eldorado" (Manoa), which might confirm that the plain is in (Andean) South America?]

Peru and (North &) South Americas also has other plains eg Nazca ("grassy") plain, Llanos, Pampas, Planalto, Great Plains.

ditch surrounding plain

("touching the city at various points" / "to the city from both directions" Critias 118d-e.)

Ditch surrounding plain seems to be shown in Inca picture from Coricancha. A picture in the Crespi collection seemingly may also show the plain with criss-crossing channels too.

Part of the ditch might be the Desaguadero?

(Also, in maps the water comes to central Tiahuanaco from two sides like described in Atlantis Account?)

channels criss-crossing plain (agriculture system).

"Atlantis had a network of canals not ever seen/found in Europe".

"geoglyphs" on the southeast & southwest of Titicaca, and near / north of Tiahuanaco, and in the Altiplano which match the criss-crossing channels/canals (and population) of Atlantis plain.

(Sajama lines 22525 sq km, 16000 km, 10/20 km?)

The ancient suka_kollus "(flooded-)raised field(s)" farming/agriculture system.

Inca picture from the Coricancha shows the plain with criss-crossing channels. A picture in the Crespi collection seemingly may also show the plain with criss-crossing channels.

"signs of a network of water channels at the site [Tiahuanaco]" (2017).

raised fields (Umayo)?

network of canals (Chavin);

system irrigation channels (Moche/Chimu/Chanchan);

irrigation networks (Moche/Sipan)?

Abundant harvests from irrigation system (Moche/Chimu)?

[Also compare the highly fertile floating gardens/canals of the valley of Mexico.]

2 crops a year climate, soil & agriculture system Critias 119a.

[Hyperborea also had 2 crops.]

The sun & moon / stars & clouds in the Inca picture from the Coricancha are said to stand for "summer & winter".

= The sun & moon in picture of waruwaru agricultre. =

The ancient suka_kollus "(flooded-)raised field(s)" summer & winter farming/agriculture system of the area, which "produced impressive yields".

Abundant harvests from irrigation system (Moche/Chimu)?

Peru had a Pacific climate before Andes suddenly rose higher (and before air/water currents changed). Tiahuanaco was on the equator in one pole shift map.

canal/river

("sail right upto".)

("touching the city at various points" / "to the city from both directions" Critias 118d-e?)

the/a canal in Tiahuanaco maps/diagrams? or Rio Tiwanaku? or the Desaguadero? "Geoglyphs"?

"... the water flowed into canals which led to lake Titicaca." "It [water/canal] lead from there to wharfs at the site's north and thence to the lake." "the artificial canal (or moat), some 100 feet wide, that surrounded the whole site" .

The canal seems to be shown on the Colango stone, and in the Inca picture from the Coricancha.

high

Peru/Bolivia area in the Andes is high. (Although evidence is that the area has been raised higher at some time in ancient times, some parts must/would still have been somewhat high then.)

highest/sheer mountains (surrounding plain)

The Andes are among the only few candidates in the whole world for highest mountains (others including Himalayas, and the early Appallachians) . The Andes do surround the plain area.

Atlas mountains

Andes, which well match nature of Atlas mountains. (Illampu/Sorata and/or Illimani?) The Andean area well fits being close to the stars/heavens/sky. The other "Atlas mountains" are in farthest north-western Africa which implies Atlas must be at least that far west or further. Atlas mtns are in Africa not in Spain/Europe, which implies South (Atlantic/America) not North (Atlantic/America). Atlas mountains position in farthest nw Africa are a similar analogous mirror copy of the Andes position in farthest western South America. The Atlas world pillar motif is prominent in Andean art (spade symbol). Position in far south west fits Atlas holding up earth & heavens. Sitchin suggested the mountains of Meskiaggaseir (in Sumerian king list) are the Andes, and this may match Poseidon of Atlantis?

"cliff(s)" (Spanuth's misinterpretatin of Critias 118b)?

/ "sheer/precipitous".

the "crest" &/or plateau Kimsa Chata ("3 mountains") &/or Puna on the right/east side, &/or the similar ridge/flanks/peak/height Quimsa-Chata &/or Serrania Machaca on the left/west side? (Kimsa Chata is 15 km or 10-12 miles southeast of/from [Tiahuanaco or Titicaca]?)

[There are some areas with cliffs around Titicaca.]

Cliff(s) may be shown in Coricancha picture ("Ilyapa"/"Rayo"), and in Sillustani inscription (wedge shape)?

50 stades (9.2 km, or "5 (& a 1/2) miles") distance between city-centre and sea (= radius of the circular royal island capital city). (22 km diameter.)

the distance between Tiahuanaco and Titicaca now and/or then seems to be roughly around about the same exact distance. Sources attest that there have been changes in the local geography, eg they say that Titicaca used to extend to Tiahuanaco and/or that the central city used to be linked with Titicaca waters, so the geographical distance was abit different then to now and the exact distance then is uncertain. Even modern sources give different present distance(s) measurements.

Tiahuanaco described as "vast area", "several square miles in area"; and/or, greater Tiahuanaco (including Pumapunku etc) stretches "for miles".

"[Tiahauanco citadel] site encompasses at least 650 hectares (1675 acres)". "PumaPunku area ... includes extensive ruins & a terraced mound faced with stone blocks, extends at least 14 hectares".

Kimsa Chata/quimsa-chata is 15 km or 10-12 miles southeast of/from [Tiahuanaco or Titicaca]?

Tiahuanaco is now 10/12/13 miles/km from the lake.

One source says 13 miles from Titicaca.

Another source says "Tiahuanaco 12 miles south of Titicaca"?

Another source says Tiahuanaco 10 miles from Titicaca.

The stones of central Tiahuanaco were "transported tens of miles from the nearest quarries" "some ten miles away".

A quarry 10 km away [from Tiahuanaco].

Tiahuanaco city is "6.5 sq km maximum".

One source says a few miles from Titicaca.

concentric circles/rings royal "island" capital city of Atlantis (Critias 113c-114a, (114e,) 115c-116b, 116d, (117a,) 117c-118b, 118b, 118d-e, 119c-d, 120d?)

At least 1 or 2 or 3 of the rings/circles of the city are attested in the ground of the physical site (maps and descriptions), and in the name of the city, and in local art.

Tiahuanaco has a number of different parts (Akapana & Kalasasya & Kantatyita in centre, Pumapunku area, and Laukurmata near lake Titicaca).

1 or 2 of the rings are seen in maps of Tiahuanaco by Posnansky, Sitchin, Alford.

"... surrounded by a moat, and the earth and clay which had been excavated from the moat ...", "... the canals which surround the site ...", "the artificial canal (or moat) ... that surrounded the whole site". The "American Stonehenge". "signs of a network of water channels at the site".

Books mention evidences that Tiahuanaco &/or the Akapana was once connected with the water of Titicaca, and was a seaport.

There are evidences of quakes and of a flood at Tiahuanaco, the site is described as "... many more still lie buried in the ground under layers of sediment...", and covered in lava, so the geography is going to be a little bit different now than then. "There were two Tiahuanaco's, one the visible ruins, the other the subterranean and invisible."

Tiwanaku has matches for the distances of the 3 rings (see the rows on the distance between city & sea, and the size of the central island).

Jim Alen's site at Poopo also has rings.

Tiwanaku is also named Taypicala/Taypi-kala "stone/rock in the middle/centre", and is "considered middle of [the/their] world" by locals. "Its ceremonial core...".

The upside-down spade symbol in Peruvian art may stand either for mining or for [Poseidon] digging/boring the rings? (Compare in myth the divine/magic/golden wand/staff "sink/sank into the earth/ground", &/or, "strike/struck a/the stone"?)

"4 walls surrounded by a moat which was to create the image of a scared island / holiest of shrines" (Tiahuanaco article). Palacio enclosed by double ring of earthworks (Tiahuanaco/Calasasaya)?

concentric circles city (continued)

Other Peru sites also have similar names/natures:

("100 circular "domestic units"- or living quarters - underground at the site [Tiahuanaco]".)

Kenko "twisting channels".

Chingana "labyrinth".

3 carved channels between Ilyapa temple & rainbow temple (Cuzco)?

The concentric circles found in local art are just extra confirmation that the city was in the area. Eg:

The globe/circle/"earth-symbol/Pachamama" & "rainbow/arch" in Inca picture from the Coricancha.

The "spiral" in Sillustani inscription.

In a Chimu/Mochica mask the Atlas pillar rises from the city rings.

Pumapunku inscription shows the concentric circles. "geometric .... circles and ovals") drawings from the gateway of the sun.

The ringed city is certainly shown in a Chanchan/Chimu inscription. Concentric seen in Calango stone.

The concentric circles city is maybe also shown in the head/face of the female figure in Crespi collection? (Maybe also compare concentric circles in one or two other pieces of the Crespi collection.)

Uru/Chipaya/Coipasa village concentric organisation.

Concentric circles also in the "3 windows" drawing of Salcamayhua?

The "Radiating cross", petroglyph, northwest of Titicaca?

[The hats of Peruvians might connect with the small hill and concentric city?]

(concentric circles) capital city of Atlantis (continued)

There are also stories of a lost underwater city 'Wanaku' in lake Titicaca, the name of which links with the name of Tiwanaku. Huinaymarka (the southern part of Titicaca) means "eternal city" (like Rome), is next door to Tiahuanaco. [Juli is also ....]

Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku has been called "the cradle of American man", and "the Baalbek of the New World" (refs Posnansky, Alford, Sitchin). "I would say that i consider this the oldest antiquity in all of Peru." "... the most ancient place of any i have yet described."

Tiwanaku is located between the 2 main peaks of the mountains (ref Sitchin). "Nowhere else in the world, perhaps, can a panorama so diversified and grand be obtained from a single point of view."

Tiahuanaco is located within centre of geoglyphs around southern Titicaca & northern Altiplano.

The candelabra at Paracas may indicate Atlantis city is in Peru area?

One or a couple/few other scholars have also located Atlantis city at Tiahuanaco, or Poopo, or Cuzco (Fasold, Posnansky, Allen.)

Tiwanaku is on the "route of Viracocha", and the line of the "3 windows", which extends at most from Tiwanaku to Quito.

Tiahuanaco & lake Titicaca are inversely analogous to Eridu city & Persian Gulf.

Tiahuanaco is "on a ley line", and in the supposed "world grid".

Tiahuanaco was on equator in pole shift map.

Eldorado/Manoa may match Atlantis and Tiahuanaco? (Akakor might link with Akapana?)

Kirchir's map maybe indicates that the capital was in either Venezula or Peru?

Great city of Asshur of Genesis 10 matches both Atlantis city and Tiahuanaco.

central city island 5 stades diameter

The central core island or "greater metropolis" of Tiahuanaco is almost "2 x 1 miles".

The "saced city of Tiahuanaco covered 2 square miles".

Pumapinku is "almost a mile to the south-west" of the centre.

Tiwanaku "sits in a 3 miles width trough".

Tiahuanaco city is "6.5 sq kms maximum".

One source says a few miles from Titicaca.

("PumaPunku area ... includes extensive ruins & a terraced mound faced with stone blocks, extends at least 14 hectares".)

The temple/sanctuary of Poseidon (Critias 119d, 120a, 120c), one stadium x half stadium in size (Critias 116e), with "walls ... lined with oreichalc" (Critias 116e).

[A stade/stadium is either 157/150 m (Greece), 185/180 m / 606 ft (Roman), 177/170 m (Attic), 192 m (Olympic), 209/200 m (Egyptian), 211 m (Greece). Richter proposed that "stade" was for Egyptian khet which is 52/50/55 m.]

"... range of the temple of Poseidon...." Critias 119d, 119e, 120a.

"There was an altar, too, which in size and workmanship corresponded to the rest of the work...." Critias 116e.

The royal Palace (117e), in the habitation of the god (Critias 115d), on the island (Critias 116a), in the interior of the citadel/acropolis (Critias 116d), was "a marvel to behold for size & beauty" (Critias 115d).

Kalasas(a)ya large "temple" 120 x 130 m / 300 ft long / 400 x 450 ft. (in central island/city).

the throne room 160 x 130 ft / [100 x 85 ft].

the hall 45 x 22 ft?

"the monolithic gateway of the temple [at Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku] is the largest example of its kind in the world".

Pumapunku/Pumapinku huge "temple" 167 x 116 m (& 5 m high), + 20 m wide projections corners extending 27 m, + terrace 6 x 38 m. (in inner ring of island/city?) "Puma Punku area ... includes extensive ruins & a terraced mound faced with stone blocks, extends at least 14 hectares".

Akapana 257 x 197 m (& 16.5 high) (in central island/city).

the "semi-subterranean temple" or Kantatayita temple (in central island/city).

"a large underground plaza & 2 platforms considered to be part of a pyramid"

"near the Kalasasaya temple, another buried stone construction, possibly a temple".

Lukurmata "temple" (in outer ring of island/city, near lake Titicaca).

[Jim Allen argues for half a stade since Peru/Bolivia had base 20 not base 10. Some suggest that the Peruvians had a measurment called luk'a which is 60 cm.]

The great city of Asshur of Genesis 10 seemingly matches both Tiahuanaco and Atlantis city. Nineveh "dwelling of fish/Ninus" may match the Akapana, or Pumapunku and the temple of Poseidon? Calah may match the Kalasas(a)ya?

There are stone blocks with lines of nail holes, groves & niches at Tiahuanaco, indicating metal sheets lining/coating.

Compare the Temple of the sun, or Coricancha "golden palace" sheathed in gold plates, or golden temple covered with gold plates of Cuzco?

low hill/mountain dwelling of Clito in centre:

"... there was a mountain/hill, not very high on any side. In this mountain/hill there dwelt ... Cl(e)ito. ... enclosed the hill on which she dwelt all around...." Critias 113d-e.

"The palaces in the interior of the citadel were constructed in this wise : In the center was a holy-temple/shrine dedicated/sacred to Cleito & Poseidon, which remained inaccessible, and was surrounded by a[n enclosure/barrier of] gold(en)...." Critias 116d.

the 'Akapana' mound / "pyramid" / "hill made by hands of men", which is very prominent in maps of Tiahuanaco, and is pretty unique in the whole world, is a great match for the low hill of Atlantis. Its C-shape seems to me vulvic like clitoris? (Compare the African story of Amma who "circumcised the earth goddess, whose clitoris was an anthill.) [There is also another similar hill/mountain at/by/near Juli in middle west Titicaca.] Further archaeological details of the Akapana given in Sicthin's & Alford's books are also similar to details of the low hill in the Atlantis Account. The Akapana seemingly has an enclosure in pictures. Also fits the "inaccessible"?

The Akapana / Atlantis hill is also maybe seen depicted in the Inca picture from the Coricancha, in the concentric circles city on the left side.

(Or, "the Puma Punku are ... includes ... a terraced mound faced with stone blocks". Or, "found ... a large underground plaza & 2 platforms considered to be part of a pyramid"?)

Maybe also compare Jiskairumoko/Moko "small hill"?

red, white & black

red permian rocks at Tiwanaku?

red white black stones wall/building Llachon?

red, white, black stones at Pampa Aulagas (Jim Allen)?

Kunturwasi red, black, yellow, pink, malachite green (ref Wikipedia)?

"triple striped red yellow green" [Titicaca]?

red, white & black traditional dress code Taquile?

red white & blue steps at church of Paucarcolla?,

the Bolivian flag (Jim Allen)?

Paucar "multicoloured"?

3 bands (gold, silver, copper) in mountains by Titicaca?

Peruvian "mythology" mentions 3 eggs/castes of gold, silver and copper.

[AuAgCu of Chavin?]

"Pottery recovered from Las Ánimas complex [Norte Chico, north Chile] has linear designs painted with white, red or black."

[And abit further up the Andes: tierra Dentro red, white, black (Colombia)?]

2 hot & cold springs

Hot springs are a feature of fault lines of the world. Peru is near a fault line.

Tiahuanaco itself had "several springs some of which show vestiges of having been enclosed and provided with conduits of cut stone in ancient times".

Peru is renowned for hot springs. Examples of hot/cold springs/fountains in Peru/Bolivia include: Medicinal underground waters Arica? [Arica "eternal spring"?] Putina hot springs. hotsprings chivay / chivay thermal baths. medicinal/curative fountain of youth Carhuaz? water fountains/baths Pisac? 'Fountain of the incas', or sacred fountain Posada del Inca / Island of the Sun?

hotsprings of Ayacucho, Cajamarca, colca lodge, near Macchu picchu/aguas calientes, Atacama.

Other places in nearby areas &/or elsewhere in South America with hot/cold springs include: Tulcan Ecuador, &/or Salinas Ecuador; "275 in Chile" (including the largest at Liquine, 7 lakes, Atacama, Puyehue lake); Rio Hondo, & Cacheuta Argentina.

cisterns/pipes/conduits/drains

Tiahuanaco is pointed out in a number of sources as having water cisterns/drains/pipes (refs Daniken etc). Eg "elaborate drainage systems & conduits", "... enclosed and provided with conduits of cut stone in ancient times".

[Tambomachay aqueducts?]

baths

chivay thermal baths. Tambomachay aqueducts/bath/spa? water fountains/baths Pisac?

Atlantis had 1200 boats/ships/triremes.

"Atlanteans were oustanding sailors" (Spanuth's impression of/from Critias 117, 119).

[Sea Peoples were from "the isles and mainland of the outer circle of water" / "the great water circle [sin-wur]", and had "a great fleet of sailed-ships with arching prows at each end, in the shape of bird-heads.... ... the sailed ships of the Peleset were overwhelmed by the slave-oared Egyptian river craft...." South American fan palm in pictures of Sea Peoples?]

["the Phaeacians had the fastest ships, clippers that carry them across far-flung seas (Odyssey 7.)"

"the Phaeacians were the best sailors, Poseidon made them a sailor folk (Odyssey 7.)"]

There is evidence that Tiahuanaco was once a great sea port. "Sea ports in the Andes" (Velikovsky). Reed boats of Titicaca? Dragon-boat racing Puno? [Tiahuanaco/Peru had "extensive trade routes"?]

An ocean going ship of exotic design found while digging mines on Peruvian coasts (ref SB Cox).

The "candelabra" at Paracas may be a landmark for sailors?

Peruvians had "sea-worthy rafts" (ref Readers Digest 'Vanished Civs').

The legend of Naymlap tells of the arrival of a great fleet of balsa-reed boats (Chimu/Mochica, refs Sitchin, Pears).

Chimu (Chan chan) pottery figure of "reed boat" titled "life on the ocean wave" (ref Readers Digest 'Vanished Civs')?

10 ships Paraiba inscription (refs Kolosimo)?

The ancient version of the Panama canal at Tehuantepec (ref SC Compton 'Exodus Lost')?

[Popul Vuh says the 1st race explored the 4 corners of world.]

Azores statue pointing west with word cati/cates which means "this way" in Quechua.

Thor Heyerdahl's voyages.

"Maps of the ancient sea kings". Piri Reis map shows Americas.

[Maybe consider: "Caesar records that the greatest naval engagment he ever undertook was against the Celts of Gaul & Britain. In his De Bello Gallico he writes of a combined Celtic & British fleet of 220 ships .... Caesar describes the ships as deep-water vessels able to traverse the oceans, 'upon the vast open sea', towering above the Roman ships." Plus, have we remains proof of these ships?] [Also compare Vikings, & Polynesians.]

[May be connections of Atlanteans with the Ships of Kittim?]

[Cocaine & tobacco in Egyptian mummies?]

statue(s)


pillar(s)


had own Atlantean writing

"astronomical scientific script gylphs" Tiahuanaco gateway (Bellamy, Posnansky)?

script in Crespi collection (Daniken)?

pictographs with phonetic/alphabetic script on the Colango stone (Sitchin)?

skin parchment with hieroglyphic writing, & such writing confirmed known at Copacabana (refs: von Tschudi, Sitchin).

Fuente magna "proto-Sumerian" writing (J Allen).

Peru had writing before quipus? (They wrote on banana leaves from reign of 3rd sovereign before flood until 63rd Inca who burned and forbade all writing.)

Petroglyphs of Uru-name Andean gold centres, similar to Sumerian (Sitchin)?

Book of wars / book of leaves among Pano Indians.

Amazon inscriptions (Honore, Kolosimo).

Bailey's 'God Kings & Titans' book has American scripts tables?

name Atlantis/Atlas/Atlantic?

Shu = "Atlas". Ru = "Atlas".

[Antilla?] [Italus?]

Atlantis Account is Greek translation of Egyptian translation of Atlantean original, so the name(s) might not be true original ones?

Tiahuanaco / Peru / South America does have some possible corresponding names similar to Atlas/Atlantis such as: Atalaia near Cuzco; isla Allan in the Urus/Uros area; god/king Atau; Tahuantinsuyo / Antisuyo/Antisuco / antis/Andes; Nazca; "Alpha"? [Biblical Tiras might match Atlantis & Peru?]

Other possibly connected candidates further afield in Americas include: Atlatona; Atl/Atonatiuh; Aztlan.

The Atlas world pillar motif is common in Peruvian, and even rises from 2 circles city in one picture, which is as good as having name Atlas/Atlantis in words.

"Atlantis" in Kirchir's map is very similar to South America in its position, shape, rivers, etc.

Date: Atlantis has a "900(0)"/"800(0)" yrs. [Tartessos was 7000 yrs.]

(pillars of) Hercules was 17000 yrs or 900 yrs before Amasis II.

[Moeris (12th dyn) was also 900 yrs before Amasis. Ptah was also 9000 yrs.]

["Hyperboreans lived a 1000 years" = 100 yrs.]

The Atlantis Account does not say how long after the invasion that the "sinking" was.

Atlantis Account implies it was the "3rd deluge"? The [9 days] deluge of Deucalion? Phaethon?

Atlantis can't be too far in time from Athens & Sais (which weren't arround in 9000 bc).

Atlantis Account implies it was in the bronze/brazen age?

The name Libya first appears in time of Merneptah (19th dyn).

[Shoal of Sesostris?]

[The Sea Peoples of time of 19th & 20th dynasty of Egypt are considered ny some scholars to match Atlanteans. The 19th dynasty seems to match time of Shishak/Zerah (1000s/900s bc) in bible.]

Atlantis is supposed to be between Cecrops (1556-1506) & Erechtheus (1397-1347).

Historians believe Iron Age was heralded by Dorians / Sea Peoples / Atlanteans?

Peruvian is the oldest agriculture & civilisation area in Americas, and one of the few oldest in the world.

Tiahuanaco's age ranges in & between various sources from 15000/15,538 bc, to "12,000th yr", to 10500 bc, to 4500 bc, to 1580 bc, &/or 1200 bc, to 300 bc-ad 300, to 7th cent ad.

[Akakor "10,481 bc"?]

[Also compare Mayan 8498 yrs/bc date?]

'chamak-pacha' "period of darkness" or "night without/withno sunrise/dawn for 20 hours" was ca 1400/1394/1391 bc [parallel to the sun stood still long day of Joshua ca 1393 bc in the bible].

"Bronze Age America" (Barry Fell)?

South American fan palm in Assyrian picture of Toakkari Sea Peoples? American cocaine & tobacco in New Kingdom mummies? [Mexican murex in ancient Old World?]

Tiahuanaco was on equator in one of the maps of poles shifts.

was way to many "Other Islands"; "towards the islands";

[Antilla/Antilles?]

["7 islands of Proserpine".]

2 islands in Kirchir's msp.

the Pacific Islands? Caribbean? Antarctica was 2 islands?

[The 7 dots in the Inca picture fromthe Coricancha?]

[Azores statue associated with word meaning "this way" in Quechua?]

was way to a surrounding whole "Opposite Continent"

Antarctica? North America? Asia? Australia?

South America is centered further east than North America.

Pacific is surrounded by North America & Asia & Australia.

Indus Seal shows 2 feet & a boat, and Indian has 3 world steps of Vishnu. The boat might represent Atlantis/Poseidon? Hrozny suggested that the 2 feet are east and west ends of same world landmass?

Antarctica surrounds world ocean in map centred on north pole.

must be attested in other historical other than Plato sources. [Sea People may match Atlanteans?]

Inca picture from the Coricancha surely depicts in it a number of the details mentioned in Atlantis Account including the large plain.

Great city of Asshur of Genesis 10 pretty certainly seems to match both Tiahuanaco and Atlantis capital city.

The Sumerian king list's "Meskiaggaseir went up into the mountains" has been linked with the Andes, and is similar to Poseidon in Atlantis Account?

Kirchir's spurious map of Atlantis seems to match South America.

good if it is not just me but also other scholars who agree

There are a few other scholars have also located Atlantis in more or less the same area as us for various evidences-reasons including: Peru/Bolivia/Andes - Posnansky, Mattievich, Weidner & Bridges, J Bailey, Donneley, Siebert, Dav Fasold, Dav Antelo, Zarate, M Ozorio, Jim Allen; South America - Frank Joseph, Damo B, Desiree (partly), Ed Alex, T Morrison, Zanne?

Our final thesis is also very close to Flem-Ath's except that he didn't place Atlantis in South America but in Antarctica not far away next door.

Some others didn't suggest our location as Atlantis but they do give evidences that Tiahuanaco is a very majorly important site: Tiahuanaco has been called the "Baalbek of the New World" (Sitchin), and the most important site and original home city of all the Americas (Kolosimo). I was told by someone that it is "on a ley-line".

In Beltitz's survey of 270 authorities, 97 have Atlantis in Atlantic [as we do], 21 have it in N or S or both Americas [as we do], 15 in Africa [which ours is next to]

Kirchir's map of Atlantis has it in the Atlantic like us and it actually looks very similar to South America.

KR Bolton's dowsing result for Atlantis which i witnessed result was in the South Atlantic which is right by South America.

It is claimed that Herodotus after Solon & before Plato said the known world was only Europe, Asia & Libya.

[3 large islands of Zeus/Jupiter/Ammon, Poseidon/Neptune/Atlantis, & Hades/Pluto, + 7 islands of Proserpine.]

My sources say Herodotus said his contemporaries were wrong that the world consisted of Europe, Asia & Libya (and my owned translation of Herodotus seemed to say the same)?

Herodotus was long after Atlantis sinking. Atlantis was a separate large landmass that had wholly vanished.

The Egyptians had 10 bows/arcs of world.

Popul Vuh says the 1st race explored the 4 corners of the Earth.

"Maps of the ancient sea kings" including the Piri Reis map show the Americas and Antarctica.

Hindus knew world was a sphere thus having no top.

Hyperborean Abaris "went around the world".

Creationists give evidence that bible implies knowledge that earth a sphere.

There are many evidences of ancient pre-Columbian contacts between the New and Old Worlds. Eg: 3 pyramids of Sipan look similar to 3 pyramids of Giza.

king was the oldest.

["Hyperboreans lived a 1000 yrs".]

[Arganthonius of Tartessos ruled/lived 80 yrs.]

"One objection often presented to such an extensive Inca period is the unusually long length of life necessitated for the rulers. Several are over a hundred years old. The argument would be valid if it were possible to demonstrate that human beings cannot live that long! But human beings do often live to be well over one hundred years of age. For example, long after Moses wrote that the life span of man centers about 70 years, individuals are still recorded as living past 120 years. In those days the Peruvian highlands were virgin, and fit for vigorous living. In some instances the length of reign is due to birth of a son in the Inca's old age -- or to a birth of an heir after the death of a predecessor." (Ref Herman Hoeh.)

Andes is one of the few areas in world renowned for longevity (ref Gadd).

[Old king in Andean pictures in Sitchin's 'Lost Realms'?]

Atlas (person/mountians name/nature).

[Shu = "Atlas". Ru = "Atlas".]

Atlas mountains in nw Africa mirror Andes in S America.

Atau? Atlas world pillar motif common in Peruvian (the spade symbol).

Chibchacun bear earth on his back (Chibcha/Columbian). Rairu's father Karu "sky maker" (South American).

Apu mountain god?

Next door: [Ru = "Atlas"? Moai ~ Atlas pillar motif?]

Poseidon/Neptune (person/island name/nature)

Viracocha? Tata Pancho (about 10 on crown)? Manoa? Naymlap?

[Enmerkar of Sumerian has been linked with Andes and may link with Poseidon of Atlantis?]

[King Peiru-un of Maurigosima may be linked with Atlantis & America/Peru?]

Next door: [Tangaroa?] [Olokun?]

Atlantis became fallen/degenerate and arrogant

sons of light versus "giants deprived of light"?

The art in the Crespi collection is maybe abit like decadent baroque/rococo?

[Also compare next door in Mexico the Aztecs favoured ugly not beautiful?]

Atlantis references include: Atlantipedia; Spanuth; Flem-Ath; Fasold; Jim Allen; Sonchis/Solon/Critias/Timaeus/Plato (Atlantis Account); J Kirchir; C Berlitz; I Donnelley; Atlantis Rising; Atlantis Online; Nikas; HG Wells; Chadderton; HS Bellamy; Alford; J Nienhuis; G Hancock; K Bolton (Germanic Atlantis); Bacon (New Atlantis); A Incendium; S Bambrough; E Zangger (Flood from Heaven); SB Cox; Dio Sic; Lee trans; Philo; Milos Atlantis Conference; Zanne; Nataf; etc.

[Scheria/Phaeacia refs: Homer (Odyssey); Spanuth; Zangger; etc.]

[Sea Peoples refs: Spanuth; J Jewell (Aryans in the New World); etc.]

Tiahuanaco / Peru references include: Readers Digest (Vanished Civlizations); Sitchin (Lost Realms); Fasold (Discovery of Noah's Ark); HS Bellamy (Atlantis Myth); Posnansky; Alan Alford (Gods of the New Millenium); Charles Berlitz; Pears; Larousse World Mythology; Atlantipedia; Jim Allen; Flem-Ath; Ivar Lissner; G Hancock; Kolosimo (Timeless Earth); E Sykes; J Bailey; Crespi collection; Google earth; "Indiana Jones"; P Honore; Mattievich; Frank Joseph; T Morrison; Inca picture from the Coricancha; Sillustani inscription; Colango stone; Collins atlas; Parker; von Tschudi; Hoeh; Gadd; Velikovsky; Darwin; tourist girls photos & captions; wikipedia; Daniken; SB Cox; condoramericano.com ; archaeology news network; D Cologne / Scorpion; etc.

South America refs: Fitzgerald-Lee ('Great Migration'); Piri Reis map; etc.

America(s) refs: B Fell (Bronze Age America, America BC); SC Compton (Exodus Lost); Popul Vuh; etc.


From this table we see that there are only 1 to 5 points of "doubt" that people have that still remain not fully answered, they are : the distance, the war, the invasion, the reason for invasion, the boats. (Plus maybe the dense population, and the "sinking"?) These remaining doubts people have had don't prove or disprove anything against our thesis evidences, they are just incredulous sceptics "missing links" doubts. Otherwise we have quality and quantity matches evidences that leave no doubt that this is Atlantis found.
Note this is just a first edition, we have more info to add in to the rows/boxes that are already in table so far, and we have more rows to add in more details of Atlantis (eg blue robes, woodland, etc).



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 22-Jun-2017 at 07:39
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2017 at 11:52
Too much info to digest quickly, but much of it mirrors what I believe.

The "city of Atlantis" was only that, a city situated in an area making it a trade hub.
The Ten Kingdoms were in South America. It's the only area that meets the criteria that Plato laid out, red and black stones, large plane etc.

When the sudden sea level rise happened, it pushed the coastlines of both continents back by several hunred miles.

There's much evidence that there was a major earthquake at about the same time as the sinking of Atlantis. It caused a major uplift that moved the shoreline of Titicaca 12 miles from Tiawanaku. "Hancock".

As the ruins still exist, it's not as sexy as looking for a city that totally vanished.

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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2017 at 14:09
There are fatal flaws that try to place Atlantis in the New World or any other far off place.

a. Plato reports the ancient Egyptian priest said that the Atlanteans were ancestors of the Greeks, which meshes well with Thera, but pretty much eliminates places like South America

b.  There is no evidence any ancient pre-Columbian transatlantic trade.  If we can find the remains of a few Viking fishing settlements in Canada, then it is is very hard to see how evidence of a might transatlantic empire is so completely lacking.  The "Columbian" exchange was one of the greatest agricultural exchanges in history, and yet there is no pre-Columbus evidence.  We all know how quckly the native Americans adapted to the wild horses that accidently escaped the Spanish, so you are saying that this mythlogical Atlantean civilization didn't import any horses, donkeys, chickens, pigs, wheat or iron working into the New World, or any corn, potatoes, chiles, sweat potatoes, etc., into the Old World?  I just don't buy the fact that these mythological Atlanteans were not as smart as  the Spanish, and did not recognized the value of the unique New World crops, or the Old Word fooda and animals lacking in the New World.

If you assume that Plato or his sources exaggerated, as ancient sources often did, then Thera becomes a good match to Atlantis.  Divide the legth of time by 10, the size of the island by 10, etc., and Thera starts looking good.  Any civilization on Thera, like Crete, is liking to have some relationship to the Greeks, and Egyptian priest, Plato source, would be more likely to know about an ancient cibilization based on Thera a 1000 years ago than an ancient one in South America 10,000 years ago.


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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2017 at 12:40

The evidence that Atlantis capital city is Tiahuanaco is overwhelming. Any supposed "flaws" are able to be answered or have been already.
I don't remember the Account saying clearly anywhere that the Atlanteans were ancestors of the Greeks. It does say they fought with them, and that they conquered up to Libya or Egypt and Tyrrhenia or Greece. There is a theory that the Dorians are from Atlantean Sea Peoples.

Atlantis can not be Thera for many reasons including:
- wrong size (Atlantis was very large)
- wrong distance (Atlantis was most remote).
So Atlanteans were "invaders" just from so close place as Thera or Malta?
- wrong "sinking" disaster
- wrong direction
- no large plain
- no remains of concentric city extensive civilisation
- wrong date? (Thera date is disputed & uncertain)
etc.

There is heaps of evidences for pre-Colkumbian trans-Atlantic contacts. Eg see books by Pierre Honore, Nigel Davies, Barry Fell, Sitchin (Lost Realms), Donald MacKenzie, SC Compton, etc. Heliolithic [Megalithic] culture is found many places all around the world including Peru. American cocaine & tobacco was found in Egyptian mummies.

It is not safe to assume anything like exageration. Only by objectively looking to see if there are (or aren't) any quality matches with real history.

The date was not literally 9000 years. There was no Sais or Athens or Mycenaean Greeks or Bronze etc then.

Yes Red Clay that seems a fairly good summary view. It does seem that the capital city [Tiahuanaco] was the main "Atlantis" though Atlantis was also the whole large island [(South) America]. Though not sure that it was sea-level rise. Evidence seems to suggest a pole shift (and/or maybe a continental shift?)

My current very tentative theory is that the "Aryans" [Kittim? Tiras?] come from Atlantis. ("Aryan" as blond & blue not necessarily as in Indo-European.) in  The beast in Revelation seems to match. Fits with the ideas of Serrano, Rosenberg, Thule Soc, etc.

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2017 at 14:05
Could you provide us with just a couple of google earth bookmarks? I'd like to see what you identify as an "owl".

Esp. as in all the years, I've never seen or heard of either the owl glyphs or "treasure rooms".

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and if your doing things like connecting Native Americans to Freemasonry, you best have a pile of it, or folks will think it's "just a pile of...."

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2017 at 19:56
Did you post accidentally in the wrong thread/topic? I can't see any connection?
(The table in this thread above gives heaps of evidences for Tiahuanaco.)
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2017 at 10:44
Your right, I did post in the wrong thread. I've been having so much trouble posting, I was focused on the process.
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2017 at 15:15
Atlantis capital city is certanly Tiahuanaco/Tiwankau not in Thera/Santorini. However, it is looking possible that Scher(i)a/Phaeacia of Homer's 'Odyssey' may be Thera/Therasia (Skaros/Phira/Perissa?) (I know that Thera means "beast/animal", and Scher(i)a may mean "market", but it still looks possible that Scher(i)a matches Thera in nature with various possibilities for match of the name. Interesting that Thera means beast, while evidence is that the number of the name of the sea beast (Therion or Trijon) of Revelation/Apocalypse may match Atlas/Atlantis.) I have yet to further properly investigate this Scheria/Thera match possibility.

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2017 at 07:25
Sorry it looks like Scheria/Phaeacia probably isn't & can't be Thera afterall. (As we said, Atlantis city is definitely Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku, but we were not sure of location of Scheria/Phaeacia.)

The island of Calypso / Ogygia (which can means "flood") the "navel" of the ocean is probably either Antarctica ("the world navel"), or Easter Island (Rapa Nui "navel"), or Medway, or Azores (San Miguel called "navel of ocean"), or Gozo (Malta), or Crete.

Candidates (of other people &/or of our own) for Scher(i)a/Phaeacia in nature or name have included: Atlantis [Tiahuanaco] (Spanuth, Zangger); Sekhet-Aaru / Pet (Amenti/Urani); Sanquira / Elsikuri; Meski-agga-sheir / Seir; San Lorenzo / Olman (Mexico); Bimini/Andros (Bahamas); Skraelings; Corvo (Azores); Sera (Irish/Egyptian); Hyperborea (Spanuth); Skara Brae / Faeroes / Picts; Heligoland / Frisians / Amber Island (Spanuth); Tartessos; Hesperia / Jerez/Baetica / Spartel / Basques; Sepharad; Fez(zan) / Sahara / Sakkara ("Phaeacians were dark"?); Corsica/Sardinia; Squillace/Calabria / Sicily; Corfu; Thera/Therasia/Skaros/Phira/Perissa / Pelasgians / Keftiou / Phaistos (~ Mavor); Skiros island (Aegean); Troy (Zangger); Phasis/Colchis; Phoenicians / Philistines; Kir; Shiraz; Sir/Serica/Sherpa (silk land of China/Tibet).

Nausicaa might be connected with Nazca?

* In Sumerian King List Meski-agga-sheir went up into the mountains; In Genesis 36 Esau/Edom/Seir went up into the mountains.

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  Quote amature historian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2017 at 23:23
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin


The evidence that Atlantis capital city is Tiahuanaco is overwhelming. Any supposed "flaws" are able to be answered or have been already.
I don't remember the Account saying clearly anywhere that the Atlanteans were ancestors of the Greeks. It does say they fought with them, and that they conquered up to Libya or Egypt and Tyrrhenia or Greece. There is a theory that the Dorians are from Atlantean Sea Peoples.

Atlantis can not be Thera for many reasons including:
- wrong size (Atlantis was very large)
- wrong distance (Atlantis was most remote).
So Atlanteans were "invaders" just from so close place as Thera or Malta?
- wrong "sinking" disaster
- wrong direction
- no large plain
- no remains of concentric city extensive civilisation
- wrong date? (Thera date is disputed & uncertain)
etc.

There is heaps of evidences for pre-Colkumbian trans-Atlantic contacts. Eg see books by Pierre Honore, Nigel Davies, Barry Fell, Sitchin (Lost Realms), Donald MacKenzie, SC Compton, etc. Heliolithic [Megalithic] culture is found many places all around the world including Peru. American cocaine & tobacco was found in Egyptian mummies.

It is not safe to assume anything like exageration. Only by objectively looking to see if there are (or aren't) any quality matches with real history.

The date was not literally 9000 years. There was no Sais or Athens or Mycenaean Greeks or Bronze etc then.

Yes Red Clay that seems a fairly good summary view. It does seem that the capital city [Tiahuanaco] was the main "Atlantis" though Atlantis was also the whole large island [(South) America]. Though not sure that it was sea-level rise. Evidence seems to suggest a pole shift (and/or maybe a continental shift?)

My current very tentative theory is that the "Aryans" [Kittim? Tiras?] come from Atlantis. ("Aryan" as blond & blue not necessarily as in Indo-European.) in  The beast in Revelation seems to match. Fits with the ideas of Serrano, Rosenberg, Thule Soc, etc.


The evidence for regular pre-Columbian contact and trade between the New World and the Old World is lacking.   While is there some highly debatable Pre-Columbian evidence, is hardly overwhelming, and it does not indicate any regular contact and trade between the Old and New World that would be required if Atlantis was in South A America.  (It may be possible, but far from proven, that occassion some ancient Phonecian, Greek, or Roman ship got blown off course in some storm, and landed in the New World, but that hardly qualifies as proof of regular contact.).  Evidence against any regular pre-columbian contact:

a.  Lack of any evidence of Old World animals in New World.  There is no pre-columbian evidence for dhickens,cows, pigs, mules, and especially horses in Prd-Columbian New World.  Given how useful these animals are, and how they prosper in the New World, the lack of Pre-Columbian evidence argues that if there was any contact, it was not regular and extensive.

b.  Same for New World crops in the Old World.  If thete was regular comtact (and there must have been, for us to know the story of Atlantis if it was in the Americas), then why did none of these ancients realize the advantages of crops like chiles, potatoes, maize, tomatoes, squashes, peanuts and dozens of other New World cropss that have become staples around the world.  Why were the ancients so stupid not to recognize the values of these crops, only the Spanish being smart enough to realize their value?

c.  Tiahuanaco is nearer Pacifc, high up in the Andes mountains, nowhere near any sea port, opposite the Altnatic coast, with the dense Amazon jungle between.  Just before European contact, the American civilizations of Mesoamerica and the Andes were not in direct contact with each other, and the Aztecs and Incas were not aware of each other.  Yet we are proposing that that the much more distant Atlantic civilization in the Andean mountains and Egypt were?  I am highly skeptical.

d.  Didn't Atlantis sink?  No evidence of any sunken land off the Pacific coast of Sourh America that I have presented, and doesn't the fact that Tiahuanaco did not sink beneath the waters argue it was not Atlantis?




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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2017 at 05:24
Excuse me but i kindly request only one point at a time, and only one topic/thread at a time. Here you have 3 or so extensive points, plus 2 threads (Atlantis & Biblical) to reply to on same day.
I will answer all but in future only one thing at a time please.

Originally posted by amature historian


The evidence for regular pre-Columbian contact and trade between the New World and the Old World is lacking.   While is there some highly debatable Pre-Columbian evidence, is hardly overwhelming, and it does not indicate any regular contact and trade between the Old and New World that would be required if Atlantis was in South A America.  (It may be possible, but far from proven, that occassion some ancient Phonecian, Greek, or Roman ship got blown off course in some storm, and landed in the New World, but that hardly qualifies as proof of regular contact.).  Evidence against any regular pre-columbian contact:

a.  Lack of any evidence of Old World animals in New World.  There is no pre-columbian evidence for dhickens,cows, pigs, mules, and especially horses in Prd-Columbian New World.  Given how useful these animals are, and how they prosper in the New World, the lack of Pre-Columbian evidence argues that if there was any contact, it was not regular and extensive.

b.  Same for New World crops in the Old World.  If thete was regular comtact (and there must have been, for us to know the story of Atlantis if it was in the Americas), then why did none of these ancients realize the advantages of crops like chiles, potatoes, maize, tomatoes, squashes, peanuts and dozens of other New World cropss that have become staples around the world.  Why were the ancients so stupid not to recognize the values of these crops, only the Spanish being smart enough to realize their value?


I am afraid that this is just too difficult for me to answer in my current situation & condition. It is not easy to answer because i do not have all the material in my head and at hand to post to you. I also admit that i myself do not have massively "extensive" amount of evidences, i only have quite alot of evidences that i have seen in my life of studies. I don't have all the answers, but these few remaining things don't disprove the matches evidences, they are just incredulous doubts.

I must repeat that the Atlantis Accounts themselves clearly state that the Atlanteans had almost no or very little contacts with the rest of the (Old) World.
So the contention that there is supposedly (too) little evidences of pre-Columbian trans-Atlantic contacts is not quite so valid as you insist.

As i have already said many sources, especially like the following listed ones, give plenty of evidences of such pre-Columbian trans-Atlantic contacts, including:
Donald Mackenzie book on precolumbian American myth;
Barry Fell (Bronze Age America, America BC);
Nigel Davies;
Sitchin (Lost Realms);
Thor Heyerdahl;
Pierre Honor (In Search of the White God);
Hancock;
John Jewell (Aryans in the New World);
Jim Allen (Atlantis in Bolivia website);
SC Compton (Exodus Lost); etc.

There are well known modern times findings such as
Kennewick Man;
Folsom/Clovis & Solutrean related.
Sipan 3 pyramids look similar to 3 Giza pyramids.
Chancelade & Eskimo related.
4 world ages same in Mexico/Peru and Old World (ref MacKenzie).
Flood Myth same in both worlds.
Tower of babel myth same in both worlds.
Amerindian myths mostly have origins from east over sea not from west over land/ice (ref Berlitz).
Pictures of "Indian Elephant" in America (MacKenzie).
There have been various phoenician / etc inscriptions found in Americas (though some are disputable) (one mentions Jehu? one mentions Bel?).
There is evidence that Phoenicians/Carthaginians knew of America(s) (map or something).
Cocaine & tobacco found in Egyptian mummies.
Toakkari Sea People bearing South American fan palm.
Quinoa/Keen-wah "mother of all grain" might be related to Eve/Khavah "mother of all life".
Heliolithic [Megalithic] culture is found many places all around the world including Peru.

Even if just only one or few are accepted genuine then they have to be explained.

If you search "Mythos Atlantis Historia Pangaea" you will find a older version of my earlier Atlantis theory which lists more examples in the section on Pre-Columbian trans-Atlantic contacts.

There have been thousands of years between the "sinking" event and now. Animals supposedly evolve. Animals and plants only thrive in certain places. There have been changes in geography & climate.

Also many things may have been buried or wiped out. There are many "forbidden archaeological" finds in all periods of geological time scale deep down (Cremo & Thompson 'Forbidden Archaeology'). Mass extinction sites from Alaska to Mexico and Bogota to .... 

Originally posted by amature historian


c.  Tiahuanaco is nearer Pacifc, high up in the Andes mountains, nowhere near any sea port, opposite the Altnatic coast, with the dense Amazon jungle between.  Just before European contact, the American civilizations of Mesoamerica and the Andes were not in direct contact with each other, and the Aztecs and Incas were not aware of each other.  Yet we are proposing that that the much more distant Atlantic civilization in the Andean mountains and Egypt were?  I am highly skeptical.


Atlantis Account says the capital city was on the side of the sea/ocean.
Atlantis island was the whole large island (South America).
'Atlantic (sea)' was either Titicaca, or Pacific &/or Atlantic (either/both sides of Atlantis/America).
Atlantis Account says/implies the area was high (mountains) (& "Atlas").
Atlantis Account confirms woodlands/forests.

There are tons of evidences proving that the Andes were raised up higher within the lifetime of ancient humans & civilisation, and/or that Tiahuanaco was a port,  including:
- tilted water marks in Titicaca.
- cracked and scattered/tossed megalithic stones buidlings.
- Andes once had a Pacific ocean climate fauna/flora.
- Tiahuanaco was once a great sea-port (also sea port evidences in Titicaca sites). "sea ports in the Andes" - Velikovsky.
- raised beaches in Ancon (ref Berlitz)
- Paracas candelabra seems to be a sea-farers/sea-port land mark.
- Megalithic buildings which can't have been built in such rarified high altitude air.
Sources which give such evidences include: Velikovsky; Darwin; Ivar Lissner; Charles Berlitz; etc.

There are some evidences of possible Mexican & Peruvian ancient contacts, but i don't have them recorded or at hand right now. Where was Olman? Tulan? Aztlan? Was Gadeira of Atlantis Account Mexico? Tiahuanaco has been called "the cradle of American man" (Posnansky, Kolosimo). Oldest American evidences  are on east coast not west coast, and in south America not north America (eg SC Compton 'Exodus Lost'). Traditions of caves linking different regions.

There was once a statue in Azores of man on horse pointing west & associated with name/word cati/cates which happens to match Quechua word meaning "this way".

Originally posted by amature historian


d.  Didn't Atlantis sink?  No evidence of any sunken land off the Pacific coast of Sourh America that I have presented, and doesn't the fact that Tiahuanaco did not sink beneath the waters argue it was not Atlantis?


Peruvian/Bolivian traditions have memories of "Flood" at Tiahuanaco. "water over turns land", etc.
There are matching archaeological evidences of both quake(s) and flood(s) at Tiahuanaco.
See the table in earlier post above.
Really i have already posted many evidences in the table. How many times i have had to keep repeating myself over the last 4 years (and people had the cheek to imply i'm the "lazy" one). Its nice to chat, but i have major time etc stresses and i will just be wasting my time re-writing (not as well) what i already did before in the table.

As i have already said in earlier post in this thread: Atlantis "sinking" was either: Pole Shift (Crust Displacement), and/or Continental Shift, and/or only the royal island capital city area sunk (confusion in the Account between the whole large island and the royal island capital city, see the wording in the table in earlier post above, or highlighted in Hancock forum thread couple months ago).
"Sinking" was either land went down, or water went up, or land/water went side ways.
Some English translations parts say "sank" but some say different. Things are also not necessarily always so over-literal eg Joshua "halting sun" was not literally the sun that stopped was it?

The Atlantis Account only says it "sank" or was "swallowed" at that one snap shot time it was writing about. It doesn't say what happened between then and now. Lets try an example. Sursey island rose, but oh there is no Surtsey island now so it must be a lie?

Personally i think/feel that we gave in our table undeniable matches evidences that Atlantis city & plain & island match Tiahuanaco & Peru/Bolivia & Andes & (South) America. Regardless of a few things people find difficult to believe (which don't prove/disprove anything but are just doubts put in the way). I can understand if there are more things that must be answered, but i also think it is wrong how they always use any possible excuse to refuse to accept our work.  To me the things are not necessary, we already have things that simply can not be denied to match. But they insist the  extra things are necessary. its not fair that its all or nothing.

http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,1063585
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,1079206
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=105
http://lifetradition.webs.com/atlantis.htm



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 21-Aug-2017 at 05:55
It is wrong/evil/slavery that i am being Forced (no equal options choice) by the elite authorities & my disadvantaged situation to eat (lots of) Fluoridated (etc) water every meal (grains) every day.
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