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who was the real Hercules?

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Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: who was the real Hercules?
    Posted: 01-Mar-2016 at 02:49
The Original (of) Hercules?

(Sorry i haven't search the forum to see if there is/are already thread/topic on this, it takes too much time etc on dialup and i have other things of mine that i urgently need to recover copies of on the web/net due to people having been trying to destroy our discoveries & evidences.
This is a copy of my recent article (with a few new additional bits) which i had put in my newsletter which i recently emailed a dozen friends.)

I assume that you all know who Herakles (Greek) / Hercules (Roman) / Hercle (Etruscan) is without us needing to give any introductory explanation. (If you don't then look up wikipedia for an easier way to find out.) This piece is about who might the real original (of) Hercules (name not just nature) be?

Frazer in the Golden Bough says that Hercules corresponds with the Lydian/Cilician god Sandan/Sandon (and with Sardanapalus) [whose name possibly might be linked with the city Sardis?].

Some people have compared Hercules with Samson in the bible.

In Egyptian myth/history Hercules has been variously corresponded in nature with 6 persons (Shu, Khunsu, Sesostris [Senusert or Ramses 2], Sem/Gom, Hershef), and in name with Hershef. Hercules and Sesostris may possibly connect with Harmachis/Horemkhu and/or Re-Harakhty of the el-Arish inscription (which may be linked with the Exodus)?

 Hercules would seem to perhaps come from an early Sumerian/Babylonian figure like Nimrod, or Gilgamesh/Izdubar. Hislop mentions Dayyad the "Assyrian Hercules". In the Epic of Gilgamesh the hero is very similar to Hercules (and/or to Odysseus/Ulysses). There may even be connections between the 12 tablets of the Epic of Gilgamesh, the 120 poles of Gilgamesh, the 12 labours of Hercules, 12 pillars of Hercules, etc. (Gilgamesh may link with Dhul-Qarnain "Alexander the Great" of Arabian legend. He may also possibly connect with the golden fleece of Colchis by the Black Sea?)

Previously we thought that Hercules might match Erakal/Nergal of Mesopotamian myth. Another considered candidate was Urgula "Leo/Lion" also of Mesopotamian myth (compare the Nemean lion). Or possibly the god Kur-gal ("great mountain"?) of Canaanite myth?

 Barbara Walker thought Hercules might be connected with the Indian god Heruka.
We ourselves have noticed that Hercules (supposedly from the goddess Hera/Herwa/Chera "chosen" + kleos "glory") seemingly may rather match Kartikeya (a.k.a Skanda and/or Kumara) who is a Hindu god of war. (This might be supported by that the Roman name of Hercules is Alcides? Could this also connect with the Melkarth of Phoenican/Punic/Carthaginian myth who is identified with Hercules in early sources? Though this may be wrong if Hittite is closer than Indian to the original (Proto-)Indoeuropean language.) Kartikeya is the brother of Ganes(h)a/Ganapati, and it is possible that Ganesha might be Gilgamesh of Mesopotamian myth/history. Even if that were wrong, Hercules still has connections with (the Epic of) Gilgamesh. This gives us 2 or 3 possible candidates for the original mythological/historical Hercules:

1. Lugal-banda (Uruk 1 dyn)? This person lived just before Gilgamesh (he is his semi-divine parent & protector) and he is the hero of a couple of epics similar to the Epic of Gilgamesh. We are not sure of this but in his lecture/book AH Sayce seems to imply that Lugal-banda is the same as Lugal-tud(d)a? Lu-gal "king" is from lu "man" + gal "great", and it is quite possible that the lu "man" could be omited/droped. (Previously we thought Lu-gal-tuda might be Garuda of Indian.) Possibly the original Indoeuropean name could have been Kar-tikueya, from Gal-tuda (by k/u and y/d interchange)?

2. Utu-(k)hegal / Utu(k)he-gal (Uruk 5 dyn)? This king adopted Gilgamesh as his patron deity.

3. Uruash-zikum/"Ur-nammu" (Ur 3 dyn), &/or Uru-ricika (ca 52nd king of Indian king lists)? (This king's name has been variously read "Ur-nammu" / "Ur-engur" / "Uruash-zikum" / "Ur-bagas" / "Urkham" / "Urukh".)
He is the immediate succesor of Utuhegal.
A lament for Ur-nammu mentions Gilgamesh.
Gilgamesh was worshipped at a small town near Ur during the 3rd dyn of Ur.
"The kings of the 3rd dyn of Ur were especially attached to Gilgamesh". All the kings of the 3rd dynasty of Ur sacrificed to Lugalbanda, and in praise poetry addressed to Ur 3 kings Lugal-banda & his wife are called their divine parents, which made Gilgamesh their divine brother (as he was so called that by kings of the dynasty).
Uruash-zikum/Ur-nammu dug a canal, and he built the famous ziggurat at Ur, which things may perhaps be similar to Hercules.
LA Waddell identified Uruash-Zikum of Ur with Uru-Ricika of Indian. He said that the latter is connected with fire, was "rich in horses", and was a priest.
"Ur-nammu" would seem to come a little bit before the time of Moses [who was around in the 2nd half of 12th dyn of Egypt]?

Hercules has been corresponded with Krishna in Indian myth. 10 Avataras of Krishna recalls 10+2 labours of Hercules.

Possibly the Persian/Iranian hero Keresaspa may match either Hercules/Kartikeya or Krishna? Though the hero Rustum/Rustam of Persian myth is corresponded in nature with Hercules. The Persian god Bahram is also depicted as/like Hercules.
There is a god named Cerklicing in Baltic myth, which might possibly link with Hercules/Kartikeya?

I think i remember from my lost 15 years notes (that were destroyed in a crisis [5-10] years ago now) that the Georgian's have a patriarch called Kartlos [who might possibly be connected]?

Alternatively, Herakles/Hercules could possibly be connected with
Heil/Helis/Helith (Cerne Abbas giant, British/English),
Helethkin/Herle the wild hunter,
Harlequin/Arlecchino,
Herlequin/Hennequin (a devil, Old French),
Herle the King (identified with Wotan, Germanic),
Herla the Wildhuntsman (British/English),
Herne the Hunter (Enlgish/British),
Erlking/Ellerkonge (~ Alberich/Oberion, led wildhunt, Germanic)
[Hurlewain (British/English)?]
Years ago we noticed that in Lapp or Finnish there is a god Horagalles.
I think i vaguely remember seeing Tacitus saying that [Hercules or/and Odysseus?] once visited Germania [perhaps relating to Sigurd and/or Beowulf]? (Some think this is connected with Donar/Thor. Herodotus said Hercules visited Scythia which was in either the north east and/or north west.) (A)Egil/*Agilaz of Germanic myth is said to be similar in nature [& name?] to Hercules.
Some scholars say that some of the "Germans" of Tacitus were really Celts/Gauls. There was a promonitory of Hercules in Britain. In Germano-Celtic Britain the 12 battles of "(King) Arthur" might have been connected with the 12 labours of Hercules.
The god Ogma/Ogmius has been called the Celtic Hercules.

Our identification of Herakles/Hercules with Kartikeya etc might be supported by the alledged/spurious ancient Gaulish patriarch Celtes ("1771-1758 bc", "so famous he gave his name to all the early peoples of Western Europe") [and/or Galathes ("1739-1690") the/a son of Hercules ("1758-1739")]?


The "Attic Hercules" was Theseus who might possibly be a/the historical Greek Hercules?

The pillars of Hercules/Melkarth is another separate interesting topic which we have discussed in a chapter of our Atlantis paper at lifetradition.webs.com .

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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2016 at 03:55
Personally AR... I like the Sumerian/Babylonian version having thru transfusion of cultures, an impact on later or contemporaneous identification with the Greek and Egyptian.

But...that's just speculation.

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2016 at 01:06

Yes the Sumerian/Babylonian Gilgamesh epic (&/or Nimrod) seems to be the ultimate original (of) or the first (of 10/12) Hercules (in nature not name).

I should have said in there that the idea was that Utu(k)he-gal could have been read as Gal-utu(k)he which is close to Kartikeya who ~ Herakle[o]s/Hercules. He seems the best match of the 3 candidates i gave.

Also just found that Celtus one of two sons of Hercules in Spanish tradition also may confirm Celtes/Kartikeya/Hercules.

I forgot that i think the AE webmaster was included in the mailing list of recipients of my newsletter that this and the other Asshur articles were in, so you may have already known



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 02-Mar-2016 at 01:09
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2016 at 16:27
Keep charging. Btw I expect a free copy of your book when it's finally completed. And don't tell me you don't have either the skill or aptitude. I know better.

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CV
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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2016 at 03:15
Thankyou for that Centrix.
At present my "life" still looks pretty gloomy though and i have absolutely no hope unless God/Jah has grace/mercy on me. Also would have to include improvement of my writing skills since most people tell me they can't read/understand what i write.

Enmerkar/Nimrod? -> Lugalbanda -> Gilgamesh -> Utu(k)hegal/Hercules? -> "Urnammu".

(Enmerkar was hero of an epic like Lugalbanda and Gilgamesh.)
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2016 at 06:14
It looks like i was wrong about Hercules connected with Kartikeya, and that Indian oldest Indoeuropean.

It now seems that Hercules (& Hera?) is connected with Hittite Halmasuitta/Hanwasuit (sometimes god, sometimes goddess) (or else with Elkunirsa? or Illuyankas??); and seems that Hittite is the oldest Indoeuropean.

Still yet have to see if Halmasuitta connects with other candidates like Gilgamesh? Ganesha??
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2016 at 14:35
Darn it. I am sorry, it looks like i maybe was/am again/still wrong abour Hercules and/or Hera. It looks like Hera/Herwa/Chera may possibly match Hebat/Hepatu instead? (Hebat looks like may possibly match either Hera or Rhea?) Hercules also seemingly may not match Halmasuit(ta)/Hanwasuit either?
I should always post my disclaimer that whatever i am wrong/dumb about doesn't mean i am all/always wrong/dumb about everything or that others are all/always right/good. Its not fair that  the things i am wrong about are always noted but never the things i am right about. I have had and do have a Hell situation "life" and can only try to do the best i can with limited resrouces/water/time/morale/health/love/food/education/etc.

May post update if/when i find right match, otherwise i am not ever posting anything else again.
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