Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

who is the earliest historically attested Pope

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: who is the earliest historically attested Pope
    Posted: 27-Nov-2015 at 03:11
Thank you for that Aliusama. Welcome to the forum (though i am only a member) i hope you find it nice too (this is one of the more friendly forums that i have found).

I will just post this extra comparison of "pope" Callistus and emperor Caracalla.

-- Callistus:
Name Callistus/Cal(l)ixtus.
-- Caracalla
Name Caracalla from "*Gallic* hooded tunic".
[Overthrown by Carausius?]
[Assasinated near Carrhae?]

-- Callistus/Cal(l)ixtus:
Reigned 217/218-222/223. "5"/"7" yrs.
-- Caracalla:
Reigned 197/198-209-211-217. ("19" yrs total co & sole.)

-- Callistus:
"Further there is extant an inscription of a Carpophorus, a freedman of M. Aurelius...."
-- Caracalla:
Created a connection with Marcus Aurelius.

-- Callistus:
"16th" "pope" from "Peter".
-- Caracalla:
"22nd" emperor from Augustus.
[Peter matches 5th emperor Nero, so minus the 4 1st emperors. And/or minus 3 usurpers (Otha, Galba, Vitellius). Or, Domitian "reincarnation of Nero", so minus 3 usurpers & 2 Flavian (Vespasian, Titus)?]

-- Callistus:
"Martyr".
Cemetary/catacombs of Callistus.
'Callistus Domitiorum' "son of Domitius".
-- Caracalla:
[Murdered/assasinated by a soldier.]
Notorius & unpleasant for massacres & Persecutions he authorized & instigated.
[Connection with female person Domna?]

-- Callistus
Zephyrinus made him coemeritium.
-- Caracalla:
Co-emperor with Severus.

-- Callistus:
Connected with Elagabalus/Heliogabalus (Baal/El worship); & "antipope" Hippolytus ("& his defective theology" & "imperfect Christology" & "ditheism") was contemporary with him & after him.
-- Caracalla:
Heliogabalus/Elagabalus was emperor not long after him.
His father/mother connected with Elagabalus.

-- Callistus:
preceeded by Zepheniah / Zephyrinus.
-- Caracalla:
preceeded by (Septimius) Severus.

-- Callistus
Built an oratory (claimed by popinarii tavern-keepers).
Built a church/basilica.
/ Patron of the titulus of Basilica of St Maria.
-- Caracalla:
Commissioned building of public bath(-house)s (which included libararies etc).
Forced senate to construct "palaces, theaters, and places of entertainment".

-- Callistus:
"pope/papa" / "bishop of bishops" / "pontiffex maximus".
Successor of Peter who had a bushy beard [and of Linus which means "flax coloured hair" which matches yellow hair in dictionaries ].
["The declaration of Carpophorus that Callistus was no Christian...."
"The orthodoxy of Callistus is challenged by both Hippolytus and Tertullian...."
"Hippolytus, however, regards Callistus as a heretic."]
-- Caracalla:
Emperors from Augustus to Theodosius were Pontiffex Maximus.
[The first 46+ "popes" certainly really match the  emperors and are not real popes/bishops. Callistus is certainly really Caracalla and not really a genuine pope/bishop.]
Caracalla had a "short full beard" [and wore blond whig] (and Geta had "long beard with hair strains").


-- Callistus:
"...was put in charge of collected funds by his master Carpophorus...."
"His master entrusted large sums of money to Callistus, with which he started a bank in which brethren and widows lodged money, all of which Callistus lost."
["He obtained great influence over the ignorant, illiterate, and grasping Zephyrinus by bribes."]
"...he tried to borrow money or collect debts from some Jews."
"...it is clear that he asked the Jewish money-lenders to repay what they owed him...."
"If Pope Victor granted Callistus a monthly pension...."
-- Caracalla:
"New and heavy taxes were levied against the bulk of the population, with additional fees and confiscations targeted at the wealthiest families."
"to increase state revenue" / "raising tax revenue" / "expanding the Roman tax base"
"About the time of his accession he ordered the Roman currency devalued, the silver purity of the denarius was decreased from 56.5% to 51.5%...." / "debasement of the currency"

-- Callistus:
Was a "runaway slave (now free by Roman law from his master...." &,
"The edict of Callistus on penance...."
"... in a famous edict he granted Communion after due penance to those who had committed adultery and fornication. .... ... The edict was an order to the whole Church.... .... ... and the pope in decreeing a relaxation was regarded as enacting a new law. .... ...Again Callistus allowed the lower clergy to marry, and permitted noble ladies to marry low persons and slaves, which by the Roman law was forbidden...."
"...he started to admit into the church converts from sects or schisms who had not done penance. ...and established the practice of absolution of all sins.... Hippolytus found Callixtus's policy of extending forgiveness of sins to cover sexual transgressions shockingly lax and denounced him for allowing believers to regularize liaisons with their own slaves by recognizing them as valid marriages. "
"Further there is extant an inscription of a Carpophorus, a freedman of M. Aurelius...."
"... thinks that Callistus also issued a decree about fasting...."
-- Caracalla:
"the Constitutio Antoniniana (also called the Edict of Caracalla or the Antonine Constitution), granting Roman citizenship to all freemen throughout the Roman Empire...."
"The Constitutio Antoniniana (Latin: "Constitution [or Edict] of Antoninus") (also called Edict of Caracalla or Antonine Constitution) was an edict issued in 212 by Caracalla which declared that all free men in the Roman Empire were to be given full Roman citizenship and all free women in the Empire were given the same rights as Roman women. Before 212, for the most part only inhabitants of Italia held full Roman citizenship. .... The effect of this was to remove the distinction that citizenship had held since the foundation of Rome and as such the act had a profound effect upon the fabric of Roman society."
&, "He forgot even the proper dignity of his rank...."

-- Callistus:
Connected with "pope" "Victor".
-- Caracalla:
Connected with military? [Alexander mimic/mania?]

-- Callistus:
Consigned to the pistrinum handmill.
-- Caracalla:
"... and even grinding his own flour with them."

-- Callistus:
No reliable historical verificiation. Acts are "spurious". Certain details only  "likely to be historical". "Possible" he was martyred.
-- Caracalla:
Historically verified.

-- Callistus:
prefect Aleaxnder (just after his death).
-- Caracalla:
Aleaxnder the Great mimic/mania.

Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2015 at 09:04
"pope Linus" & emperor Vespasian biographies details matches extra evidence:

-- Linus:
Name Linus "flax coloured hair" or "net".
(They say that they can't be sure that bishop/pope Linus is same as Linus of NT, and that the tradition that they are same may really be just a case of "similarity of the name".)
-- Vespasian:
Name Flavius "yellow coloured hair" (Flavia gens, founded Flavian Dynasty). [Dictionaries confirm that flax coloured hair and yellow coloured hair are almost exactly the same.] (Urinals named after him. [Yellow too.])
[(Gaius) *Licinius* Mucianus treated Vespasian with scant respect?]
[Aulus Caecina *Aelienus* conspiracy?]
A tomb inscription "...linvs"?
Pliny the Elder wrote during his reign.
Hercules killed Linus with a lyre. Apollo killed Linus because he had challenged him to a musical contest. Vespasian fell asleep when Nero playing lyre? Vespasian erected a statue of Apollo.
Linus/Maneros in Egyptian in Herodotus. Vespasian was connected with Egypt.
Lenus god of healing. (Vespasian visited temple of Serapis). "two [Egyptian] labourers who were convinced that he [Vespasian] possessed a divine power that could work miracles. .... Stories of a divine Vespasian healing people circulated in Egypt. .... Stories of a supernatural emperor...."
[Vespasian "fulfilled the standard succession of public offices" ~ line??]

-- Linus:
born 10 ad. reigned 56-67 &/or 64/67-76/78/79/80, "9 yrs"/"12 yrs". 23 sept / 7 June. aged 66.
-- Vespasian:
born 9 ad. reigned 68/69-79, "10 yrs". 23/24Jun. aged 69. Jewish rebelion of 66.

-- Linus:
2 pictures shown him with a bald head with 2 side patches and a 1 patch in middle-front.
-- Vespasian:
Depicted with a bald head with 2 side patches and a patch in middle-top.

-- Linus:
Linus is either 2nd Pope (1st after Peter), or 1st Pope (exluding Peter), or omitted (with Clement as next after Peter).
-- Vespasian:
Vespasian is 2nd emperor counting from Nero (1st emperor after Nero, excluding 3 usurupers), or omitted since "Domitian reincarnated Nero".


-- Linus:
No historical verification. No proof that the Linus of NT/Bible is same as "pope/bishop" Linus of papists. Earliest sources are Irenaeus c 180 & Tertullian, and they are not necessarily reliable. His martyrdom "cannot be proved and is improbable". Contradiction of sources whether 2nd pope/bishop was Linus or Clement.
-- Vespasian:
Real historically verified person.

-- Linus
"Pope/Papa / bishop / [pontiff]", successor of Peter. [Successor of Eliakim & keys of house of David.]
-- Vespasian:
[The first 46+ "popes" names etc match the Emperors names etc.]
Emperors from Augusutus to Theodosius were Pontiffex Maximus.
["Vespasian then ordered all descendants of the royal line of David to be hunted down.... ... probably ... to suppress any rival claimants arising from that dynasty.]
His grandfather named Petro.
King of Paltisca.

-- Linus:
Mother Claudia (but they otherwise say that Claudia is from 'Timothy' and it is not actually explicitly identified as his mother)
-- Vespasian:
Claudius' wife Agrippina.
Preceeded by Julio-Claudian dynasty.
"temple to the deified Claudius"?
[Claud "lame, crippled". Vespasian contracted a slight illness which eventually he died from.]

-- Linus:
Was a "martyr" (but they otherwise say that this can't be proved and is unlikely, and he is not listed as a martyr in Roman martyrology).
[Epistle of martydom of Peter & Paul.]
-- Vespasian:
By inversion:
"Vespasian then ordered all descendants of the royal line of David to be hunted down...."
Helvidius Priscus put to death?
[Tomb with inscription ...linvs?]
[Peter mentions a persecution which may be either/between Nero's &/or Domitian's.]
[Martyr Antipas in 'Revelation'?]

-- Linus:
"2 bishops Linus & Cletus". Some popes lists/source omit Cletus/Anacletus.
-- Vespasian:
Vespasian & Titus have same almost exact same 3 names?

Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2015 at 12:07
"pope Pius" & emperor Antoninus Pius biographies details matches extra evidence:

-- Pius
name Pius.
(& was "during the [reign] of Antoninus Pius".)
-- Antoninus Pius
name Pius.

-- Pius:
Born "81 ad". Reigned 140/142/146-154/155/157/161. Died/feast 11 July. (Born "11 January".) Died age "74".
(& he was "during the [reign] of Antoninus Pius".)
-- Antoninus Pius:
Born 86 ad? Reigned 138-148-156-161. (Marcus took some role from 156.) Accession 10/11 July. Died age "74".
-- Both:
Both are 140-155. Both are 11 July. Both died age 74.

-- Pius:
predecessor Hyginus.
-- Antoninus Pius:
predecessor Hadrianus.

-- Pius:
Built 1/2 churches & baptistry.
-- Antoninus Pius.
Authorised the construction of a temple to Faustina.
"Antoninus built temples, theaters, and mausoleums...."
["newly built temple to Hadrian"?]

-- Pius:
Was "Pope/Papa / Bishop / [Pontifex Maximus]"
"the account of his [Justin's] martyrdom indicates there was no Roman bishop present there."
-- Antoninus Pius:
Was "Pontiffex Maximus"
(& the "Princeps"/"Principate"?)
"Antoninus was known as an avid observer of rites of religion...."
"Instead of stirring up persecution against the Christians, he extended to them the strong hand of his protection throughout the empire."

-- Pius:
Opposed the Valentinians.
Valentinus and Marcion visited Rome during that period.
-- Antoninus Pius:
Chief lawyer L. Fulvius Aburnius Valens.
Marcus (Aurelius).

-- Pius:
"The writer of the later text identifies himself as a former slave. This has led to speculation that both Hermas and Pius were freedmen."
-- Antoninus Pius:
"Antoninus passed measures to facilitate the enfranchisement of slaves. Mostly, he favoured the principle of favor libertatis, giving the putative freedman the benefit of the doubt when the claim to freedom was not clearcut."

-- Pius
the "9th succesor of St Peter".
-- Antoninus:
"900th anniversary of Rome" during his reign.

-- Pius & Antoninus:
In their pictures they look similar to me?

And possibly/not these ones?:

-- Pius:
"The "Liber Pontificalis" speaks of a decision of this pope to the effect that Jewish converts to Christianity should be admitted and baptized. What this means we do not know...."
-- Antoninus Pius:
"Scholars place Antoninus Pius as the leading candidate for fulfilling the role as a friend of Rabbi Judah the Prince"?

-- Pius:
"Martyr (by sword)". But they otherwise say it was a conjecture and is no grounds for consideration, and is not presented as martyr in 'Roman Martyrdom'.
-- Antoninus Pius:
Peaceful non-miitary reign, which some say is his fault/blame in causing troubles later after him.
Incinerated on pyre at Campus Martius.
[Martyrdom of St Justin?]

-- Pius:
Uncertainty whether Pope/Bishop in 155/156 was Anicetus/Anicitus or Pius or none?
-- Antoninus Pius:
The name Anicetus could be linked with either A(ur)elius Antoninus (Pius), or (Marcus) Aurelius Antoninus, or (Marcus/Lucius) Aurelius Verus? Or the meaning of Anicetus "unconquered" may relate? Or his attribute of palm branch with peaceful reign of Antoninus?

Not sure of the correct match for this one, but:

-- Pius:
"Born at Aquileia, Friuli". ["of Illyrian origin".]
-- Antoninus Pius:
"... the free access of the people of Rome to drinking water was expanded with the construction of aqueducts...." [Though Aquileia may be aquilo eagle, or god Aquilo, not aqua water.]
The Aurelii?
Password Aequanimitas?
[Born at Lanuvium. From Nimes. Ancestral estate Lorium, Etruria.]

Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2015 at 04:44
Well, i have done as much Extra/More hardwork that people always demand of me as i can. I have been having heart pains and blood pressure again so i have to quit. Not sure it is a waste of time anyway (from previous experiences of same thing from arch-critical forums and academics with other theses of ours).


"pope/bishop" Evaristus ~ emperor Nerva?

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:

Evaristus certainly seems to be either/both *Nerva* &/or (Nerva) Trajanus?
(Trajan was certainly "pope Alexander", and he may possibly also be "pope Evaristus", &/or "pope Sextus" &/or "pope Telesphorus? Though it looks like Trajan is only Alexander and not the others.)

-- Evaristus:
name Ev-aristus/Eu-charistus/Eleutherius/Aristus (eucharia "gracious", eu/su "good/well" + aristo "best"?)
-- Nerva:
Nerva's name Nerva, and Trajan's name 'Nerva Trajanus'.
Nerva "was a member of the Italian nobility". (The Cocceii were among the most esteemed and prominent political families.) 1st of the 5 good emperors (wisdom & virtue). "his benign nature".  "mild disposition respected by the good".  "well-intentioned". "super-commitee-man". "the dawn of a most happy age, [when] Nerva Caesar...." "wise & moderate".
-- (Nerva) Trajanus:
'optimus princeps' "the best ruler", sound admin, improved social conditions, modest, wise & just emperor, & moral man, dignified & fair, philanthropic rule, social welfare policies.  2nd of 5 good emperors (peace & prosperity).

-- Evaristus:
ruled 79 &/or 97/98/99-105/106/107. Died in "12th year of Trajan".
[Died aged 55.]
[26/27 oct. 23 nov.]
-- Nerva (&/or Trajan):
Nerva reigned 96-98, & (Nerva) Trajanus reigned 98-117. Coins for deified Nerva not issued until 10 years after his death. [5 good emps 96-180.]
[Accession age 65.] [27 jan.  8 nov.]

-- Evaristus:
"Pope/Papa / Bishop". Successor of Peter. [Popes elected by college of cardinals.]
-- Nerva:
"he was a textbook illustration of what nowadays is called the "Peter Principle"".
[Nerva elected/appointed emperor by senate.]

-- Evaristus:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Nerva:
deified. (Nerva Trajanus was deified too.)

_____________________

"Pope Alexander" = Trajan.

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:

-- Alexander:
name Alexander.
-- Trajan:
Trajan is said to have been "thinking aloud of Alexander [the Great] at Charax". He "sent the Senate a laurelled letter declaring the war to be at a close and bemoaning that he was too old to go on any further and repeat the conquests of Alexander the Great." "as Trajan left the Persian Gulf for Babylon – where he intended to offer sacrifice to Alexander in the house where he had died in 323 BC".
"greatest military expansion" / extended empire [like Alexander the Great]. fine/succesful soldier.
[Trojanu could link with Paris/Alexander of Troy??]
[Legate Tiberius Julius Alexander Julianus.]


-- Alexander:
Ruled 105/106/107/108/109-115/116/119. "in reign of Hadrian" / "ruled in reign of Trajan" / "under Trajan/Hadrian".
-- Trajan:
reigned 98-117. Born 53.

-- Alexander:
crown. sceptre.
-- Trajan:
Emperor.

-- Alexander --
tradition says he was a Martyr by decapitation, which is said to be improbable (other early source says nothing about his Martyrdom). [Disputed whether martyr Alexander same as pope Alexander.]
-- Trajan --
by inversion:
11000 dead in Trajan's gladatorial festival.
[Semi subterranean cemetery of martyr Alexander, Eventius, and Theodolus?]

-- Alexander:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Trajan:
deified.

_____________________

"pope/bishop" Sixtus 1 ~ emperor Hadrian?

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:


Sixtus 1 is pretty certainly either/both Trajan? &/or *Hadrian*.
(Trajan is definitely "pope Alexander", and he may possibly also be either/both "pope Evaristus" &/or "pope Sixtus" &/or "pope Telesphorus". Though it looks like he is only Alexander and not the others.)
(Hadrian is pretty certainly any/all of either "pope Sixtus", "pope Telesphorus" &/or "pope Hyginus".)

-- Sixtus:
Name Sixtus/Xystus (sex "sixth", or "polished").
-- Trajan:
Sestertius?
Consul Titus Sextius Cornelius Africanus?
-- Hadrian:
**Temple of Zeus in Cyzicus [123/124/138]?** [Compare Sistine Chapel??]
A general of his was Sextus Julius Severus.
He may have had homo-sexual relationship with Antinous.
"strict separation between the sexes in public"
[Mother from Gades/Cadiz?]
[Legatus Syriae 117?]
[Hadrian's Wall (stone)?]
"12th year of Hadrian" (6x2)?
Lusius Quietus/Kitus 118?
Consul Sextus Attius Suburanus?

-- Sixtus:
ruled 114/115/117/119-124/125/126/128, "10 yrs". "(ruled) during reign of Adrian/Hadrian".
-- Trajan:
reigned 98-117.
-- Hadrian:
Reigned 117-138. "12 yrs later". "12th yr of Hadrian".

-- Sixtus:
"6th"/7th Pope/bishop.
-- Hadrian:
14th emperor. [Minus the 1st 4 emps since Peter matches 5th emp Nero; and minus 3 "usurpers" Galba, Otho, Vitellius.]

-- Sixtus 1:
Was a "pope/papa / bishop / [pontiff]"
-- Trajan:
Emperors from Augustus to Theodosius were pontiffex maximus.
"it was commonly said in medieval times that Pope Gregory I, through divine intercession, resurrected Trajan from the dead and baptized him into the Christian faith." "Theologians, such as Thomas Aquinas, discussed Trajan as an example of a virtuous pagan. In the Divine Comedy, Dante, following this legend, sees the spirit of Trajan in the Heaven of Jupiter...."

-- Sixtus:
"Roman by birth".
-- Hadrian:
"born Rome", or born Italica (Spain) (uncertain which).

-- Sixtus:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Hadrian:
deified.

__________________

"pope/bishop" Telesphorus ~ emperor Hadrian?

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:


Telesphorus is pretty certainly either/both Trajan &/or Hadrian.
(Trajan is definitely "pope Alexander", and he may possibly also be either/both "pope Evaristus" &/or "pope Sixtus" &/or "pope Telesphorus". Though it looks like he was only Alex and not the others.)
(Hadrian is pretty certainly any/all of either "pope Sixtus", "pope Telesphorus" &/or "pope Hyginus".)

-- Telesphorus:
Name Telesphorus (tele "far", "accomplisher, bringer of completion", [*ter/trans/through "beyond"?]).
-- Hadrian:
i. "plans to complete temple of Zeus in Cyzicus"?
"... he was able to see for himself the completed work of rebuilding the Pantheon. Also completed by then was Hadrian's villa...."
"the almost complete [Hadrian's] mausoleum. Upon the completion of the tomb of Hadrian...."
Hadrian never saw the finished Hadrian's wall?
ii. [Hadrian spent half his reign traveling, and traveled to nearly every province.]
iii. [wall controled cross-border trade & immigration. crossing Mediterranean to Mauretania. conveyed across Aegean.]
iv. [Delphi??]

-- Telesphorus:
ruled 125/126/128/129-136/137/138/139. "12th yr Hadrian". "during Hadrian & Antoninus Pius".
[5 jan. 22 feb.]
-- Hadrian:
Reigned 117-138. [Antinous 123/124-130.] [Persecution of Trajan & Hadrian 108-138.]
[24 jan.]

-- Telesphorus:
"of Greek ancestry".
-- Hadrian:
Nicknamed 'Graeculus' "Greekling". Was a Phil-Hellene/Helleno-phile, "Hadrian's defined Greekness", ardent admirer of Greece, wanted to make Athens capital. He visited/travelled to Greece/Athens. Legio V Macedonica. The 'Adriatic Sea'?


-- Telesphorus:
Was a glorious/great martyr.
-- Hadrian:
by inversion:
Persecution of christians of Trajan & Hadrian (3rd of 10 major persecutions from Nero to Diocletian)
[Justin Martyr??]
'10 martyrs' (Judaic scholars).
Bloody repression of Jewish revolt 132-6 (Roman looses heavy, an entire legion destroyed; 580000 Jews killed.)
[1 whole legion disappeared/lost/destroyed in Britian in 119-121 during his reign?]
[How many people died building Hadrian's Wall?]

-- Telesphorus:
7th/8th pope.
-- Hadrian:
14th emperor. [Minus the 1st 4 emps, since Peter matches 5th emp Nero; & minus 3 "usurpers" Galba, Otho, Vitellius.]

-- Telesphorus:
T.d.S., Calabria.
-- Hadrian:
Detour to Sicily?

-- Telesphorus:
Carmel(ite).
-- Hadrian 
Jewish revolt?

-- Telesphorus:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Hadrian:
deified.

_____________

"pope/bishop" Hyginus ~ emperor Hadrian?

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:

Hyginus is pretty certainly either/both Hadrian &/or Antoninus Pius?
(Hadrian is pretty certainly any/all of either "pope Sixtus", "pope Telesphorus" &/or "pope Hyginus.)
(Antoninus Pius is definitely "pope Pius", and he may also possibly be "pope Hyginus"? Though it looks like  Hyginus better maches Hadrian.)

-- Hyginus:
Name Hyginus/Yginos.
-- Hadrian:
i. Name Hadrianus.
ii. Hadrian's Masoleum later Castel Sant'Angelo.
iii. Ignatius in/during Hadrian's reign?
iv. Hyacinthus was a beautiful youth loved by Apollo, like Hadrian loved beautiful Antinous. Hyacinth supposed to be from 'ai' "woe", compare Hadrian grieved Antinous' death.
v. Hyginus could be related to hygene? In Hadrian's reign "If you and your children are in health, it is well; I and the legions are in health."
[fell ill. ailing. suffering poor health c136.]


-- Hyginus:
Born in 78 ad. Reigned 136/138/139-140/142, "4 yrs". Died aged "62".
[11 Jan. 5 jan. 3 Jul.]
-- Hadrian:
Born in 76 ad. Reigned 117-138. [Antinous 123/124-130.] "4 yrs after". 4th yr of 227th Olympiad. [3&a1/2 years seige Beitar.] Died aged 62.
[24 jan. 10 jul. 10 aug.]

-- Hyginus:
Called "Graecvs". "Greekbybirth" (born in Athens Greece).
-- Hadrian:
Nicknamed 'Graeculus' "Greekling". Was a Phil-Hellene/Helleno-phile, "Hadrian's defined Greekness", ardent admirer of Greece, wanted to make Athens capital. He visited/travelled to Greece/Athens. Legio V Macedonica. The 'Adriatic Sea'? [Medusa on chest?]

-- Hyginus:
previously a Philosopher.
-- Hadrian
Attended lectures of philosopher Epictetus.
Familiar with the work of the philosophers Epictetus, Heliodorus and Favorinus.

-- Hyginus:
Was "Pope/Papa/PP / Bishop / [Prince of Apostles] / [Pontiffex]". Successor of Peter (who had a bushy beard).
-- Hadrian:
Emperors from Augustus to Theodosius were Pontifex Maximus.
Hadrian's mausoleum later converted into a papal fortress.
"Prince". Popular cult.
("all Roman emps before Hadrian except for Nero were clean shaven". [Nero matches Peter, eg both had bushy beard.])

-- Hyginus:
Tradition holds he was martyr(ed) (but they say ancient authorities say nothing as to his having died a martyr).
-- Hadrian:
By inversion:
Persecution of christians of Trajan & Hadrian (3rd of 10 major persecutions from Nero to Diocletian).
[Justin Martyr??]
'10 martyrs' (Judaic scholars).
Bloody repression of Jewish revolt 132-6 (Roman looses heavy, an entire legion destroyed; 580000 Jews killed.)
[1 whole legion disappeared/lost/destroyed in British uprising in 119-121 during his reign?]


-- Hyginus:
Bearded in pictures.
-- Hadrian:
Had a beard, which became a popular fashion. Depictions of him have beard (only one bronze head doesn't). ("all Roman emps before Hadrian except for Nero were clean shaven".)

-- Hyginus:
decreed that all churches should be consecrated.
-- Hadrian:
Constructed temple/temples. Rebuilt the Pantheon.

-- Hyginus:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Hadrian:
deified.

Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2015 at 00:03
Gee thanks anyone for some positive and not just everyone all negative or nothing. Surely my written/presented is not that impossible/hard to understand.
See? As i said it is always a waste of extra time and effort doing even *more* hard work getting even *more* evidences/proofs to satisfy arch-sceptical/-critical academics and forums.

We have now done the even more extra hard work going through all most all of the first 16/17 popes biographies and the corresponding emperors biographies, and collating & compiling further stark details matches evidences. We have done all the first 16/17 popes now except for "Peter/Cephas", "Clement" and the popes 11-14. (Peter's and Clement's biographies are very long. We nevertheless have plenty of details matches already which we may/could post if our situation/condition allows.) If these are not all good enough further evidences, and if the presentation is not good enough, then it is hopeless because either/both you are impossible to convince or it is impossible for me to communicate/present the evidences good enough.
There can no longer be any doubt that the first 46+ "popes/bishops" are fake and that they really match the contemporary Roman emperors. The names or meanings, and the dates, and the details match. There are too many quantity and too stark/quality horizontal and vertical "popes" & emperors matches to be anything other than original design.

Most all of the "popes" only match one emperor, and most all of the emperors only match one "pope", but at least one emperor (Hadrian) seemingly matches 3 popes (Sixtus, Telesphorus, Hyginus).

"Pope/bibshop Cletus/Anacletus" = emperor Titus.

"Pope/bishop Cletus/Anacletus" is a fake and really matches Titus.
(There are/were a couple/few possible seeming candidate emperors matching Cletus/Anacletus, but Titus seems the right one.)

Further details matches evidences from their two biographies.

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
name Cletus/Anacletus/Anencletus "unimpeachable" / "one who has been called (back)".
-- Titus:
name Titus/Tito "title (of honour)".
"It is impossible for me to be insulted or abused in any way. For I do naught that deserves censure...." "... keeping his hands unstained". "I have made but one mistake".
"Titus proved to be an effective Emperor and was well loved by the population, who praised him highly when they found that he possessed the greatest virtues instead of vices." "Titus's record among ancient historians stands as one of the most exemplary of any emperor. All the surviving accounts from this period, many of them written by his own contemporaries, present a highly favorable view towards Titus." "Titus, of the same surname as his father, was the delight and darling of the human race...." [Titus considered a day lost in which he did no good (to someone).]
"Yet the return of Titus..."

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
ruled 76/77/79/80-88/91/92, for "11 yrs"/"12 yrs".
[26 apr. 13 jul. 18 jul. 23 sep.]
-- Titus:
(Proclaimed imperator 70. Titus received title of Caesar in 69 or 71.)
 Titus on a denarius of c 79.
Reigned 79-81. (Temple of Vespasian &Titus finished by Domitian.  "the Arch of Titus... was not completed until the reign of Domitian.")
[10 yrs reign Vespasian,+] 2 yrs reign Titus ("Because Titus effectively acted as co-emperor with his father...." Vespasian & Titus shared the same name(s) 'Titus Flavius Vespasian').
(Colosseum building took 10 yrs, begun by Vespasian and finished by Titus.)
[23/24 jun. 13 sep]
Note: The first 2 Cletus dates & the 2 Titus dates both have 4 months between the two dates?

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Was "3rd pope/bishop" / "3rd after Peter" / "2nd successor of Peter".
He is omitted in some popes lists.
Cletus/Anacletus & Clement are alternatively in different order in some other popes list/s.
-- Titus:
10th emperor [but minus the 1st 4 emperors, since Peter = Nero; and minus the 3 "usurpers" Otho, Galba, Vitellius.]
Domitian was "reincarnation of Nero". [Peter = Nero, Domitian = Clement, hence some popes lists omit Linus & Cletus/Anacletus.]
Titus only reigned two years, which could be why some lists omit Cletus/Anacletus?
Titus & Domitian were brothers, which could be why Cletus/Anacletus & Clement are alternatively in different order in some other list/s?
Titus & Nerva reigned same/similar short amount of of years, which could be why Cletus/Anacletus is alternatively after Clement in some other list/s? (Plus: Titus (Flavius Vespasian), (Titus Flavius) Domitian, and
(Titus Flavius) Clemens (cousin of Domitian) all had same first two names.)
["la Clemenza di Tito"?]
[They feared Titus would be another Nero; (Several false Neros appeared throughout the 70s;) Domitian was considered a reincarnation of Nero.]
[Cletus/Anacletus ~ Titus;
Clement ~ Timothy ~ Domitian. The order in bible is Timothy then Titus?]
[Peter/Cephas, Linus and Clement are also names of persons in bible; Cletus/Anacletus is not, but Titus is.]


-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Cletus/Anacletus is shown in picture standing in/under an Arch.
-- Titus:
the famous 'Arch of Titus'.

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Shown in picture wearing a grand Crown/diadem, and wearing red/purple robe.
-- Titus:
Was emperor. "Principate".
 "he was presented with a crown by Vologases I of Parthia."
"the [Apis] ceremony required Titus to wear a diadem, which the Romans associated with monarchy".

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
"pope/papa" / "pontifical/pontificate", successor of Peter (prince of apostles).
-- Titus:
"Principate".
The emperors from Augustus to Theodosius were Pontiffex Maximus.
"he [Titus] thus kept to his promise that he would assume the office of Pontifex Maximus".
"...Titus, (also) dressed in religious regalia."
Via Sacra?
Titus' great-grandfather's surname was Petro.
"claimed that he had not won the victory on his own, but had been the vehicle through which their God had manifested his wrath against his people."
Imperial cult revieved by Titus. Temple of Vespasian & Titus.
 "the Babylonian Talmud describes "Titus as having had sex with a whore [Babylon/Rome?] on a Torah scroll inside the Temple...."

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Was a "Saint". Has a halo/aura.
-- Titus:
Was deified.

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
"Cletus was a Roman (born Rome); Anacletus was a Greek (born Athens)."
-- Titus:
Was born in/at Rome. [Titans of Greek myth? Paul's letter to Titus (who was a Grecian, and was in Crete)?]
Titus "was a skilled poet and orator both in Greek and Latin".

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Cletus &/or Anacletus either one and same person/pope or two different persons/popes.
-- Titus:
(Titus Flavius) Vespasian & Titus (Flavius Vespasian) "who both shared same names"?

I should probably leave this very uncertain dubious one out:

-- Cletus:
"martyrology/martyred/martyr" [though this seems very dubious in some of their own orthodox sources].
-- Titus:
By inversion:
40,000 Jews killed at Yodfat.
1,100,000 killed during siege of Jerusalem [or during entire Jewish revolt?] (majority of them Jews).
10000-25000 died in Vesuvius/Pompeii event.
Death toll unknown for fire (& plague) of 80ad
100 days of gladiator games.
Somethink Domitian may have killed Titus?
Jewish sources suggest Titus died after being effected by an insect for 7 yrs?

Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2015 at 22:50

We have just done a rough new ebook so that people can see the Popes and Emperors chapters all in order.
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?ForumID=11
http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?ForumID=11

scroll down the alphabetical list to books beginning with letter T.

If anything happens to it or to me.... (I have been worried this last two days that i have possibly been poisoned (delivered water, or 1 of 2 delivered foods). But the problem is there are other things it could be so i am not sure and not easy to work out. Main symptom/s is dry/burning/ulcer mouth/lips. Might just be bacteria from not good cleanliness, or dehydration, or from blood pressure, but i have never had it this bad or like this before.)



Edited by medenaywe - 29-Nov-2015 at 23:08
Back to Top
Arthur-Robin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23-Feb-2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 937
  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2015 at 00:33

People are still claiming that my written is too "incoherent". If this final attempt is not coherent enough (&/or not quality evidence enough (for just this one example "pope"/emperor excluding the other 46+ "popes"/emperors)) then it is hopeless.

"Pope" Pius 1 = emperor Antoninus Pius.

(AP = Antoninus Pius.)

Both have exact same name.
"Pope" Pius 1: His name is Pius. (He has no other known name. There is some suggestion in some sources of "Anicetus Pius".)
Emperor Antoninus Pius: His name is Antoninus Pius. Some sources just call him Pius.
(Both persons have same name, and are the same date, so the names mean the same thing regardless of slightly different meanings of modern "pious" and ancient "piety". There is no proof of existence of a/the Pope Pius 1, so the claim that piety has different meanings in the church and in secular is weak.)

Both have (almost) the exact same reign dates.
"Pope" Pius 1 reigned 140/142/146-154/155/157/161 (or, "140-154/155, or 142/146-157/161").
Emp Antoninus Pius reigned 138-(148-156/157)-161. (148 was highlight of his reign, when was the 900th anniversary of foundation of Rome. 156/157 is when AP turned 70 and had ability/health difficulties, and Marcus Aurelius (who succeeded him) took on more administartive duties.)
Look at how the 4 dates of both persons closely correspond:
Pius: 142/146-157/161.
AP:   138-148-157-161.
Or,
Pius:  140-155.
AP:    138-156(-161).
(AP = Antoninus Pius.)

Both died at the same age of 74.
"Pope" Pius died at age "74".
Antoninus Pius died at age "74".

Both are connected with the same date 11 July.
"Pope" Pius: feast day 11 July. (Reign ended 11 July 155. Reign started 11 Jan 140.)
Antoninus Pius: came to throne on 10/11 July 138.
The only difference is that one is when reign started, other is when reign ended.

Both birth dates are very close (only ~4 years difference).
"Pope" Pius was born "81" ad.
Antoninus Pius was born 86 ad.
This is all the more close when we consider that both died at age 74, and that in some versions "pope" Pius reign end date is same date (161) as Antoninus Pius reign end date (161). The ~4 years difference could alternatively/also be explained by  that Pope Pius died age 74 in 155/157 in some versions, and Antoninus Pius turned 70 in 156 (when Marcus Aurelius took more admin duties).

Both are connected with freed/enfranchised slaves.
"Pope" Pius: it is said that he may have been a freedman or former slave.
Antoninus Pius: passed measures to facilitate the enfranchisement of slaves; favoured the principle of favor libertatis, giving the putative freedman the benefit of the doubt when the claim to freedom was not clearcut.

Both built religious buildings:
"Pope" Pius built 1 or 2 churches.
Antoninus Pius constructed temple / built temples.

Both have matching predecessors (& successors):
"Pope" Pius preceded by "Hyginus" (who matches Hadrian(us)).
Antoninus Pius preceded by Hadrian(us) (who matches Hyginus).
(It is not just similar names matches of the two predecessors. They have half a dozen to a dozen quality details matches similar to "Pope" Pius & emp Antoninus Pius matches.)

Some other matches in the ebook chapter on Pius & Antoninus Pius.

If this is still considered "incoherent" (or "not full sentences" or "raw data" or "endless lists", or "cherry picking", or "juggling dates etc", or "humans naturally seeing patterns", or "superficial", or "spurious similarities", or "only the similarities and not the differences", or "pope Pius could have just copied/emulated emperor A.P.", or "like Fomenko", or "not done homework", or "unorthodox theories", or "manipulating coincidal data", or "nothing in common except the intials JC", or etc) then either/both you and/or i are hopeless, or, what will convince you that they are not different but are the same then?

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.