Topic: Y-DNA Turkey Turks = Y-DNA Central Asian Turks Posted: 18-Jun-2015 at 04:54
Originally posted by kuzzar
Originally posted by Aeoli
Your theories sounds like a Greek who insists that all things were invited by ancient Greeks
Your comment sounds like a CIA troll, with the view of point: "throw dirt enough, and some will stick" and you are most probably the victim of CIA strategies based on the philosophy of Joseph Goebels:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
If you can keep this way of speech, I can talk you forever.
Originally posted by kuzzar
The lie in our situation, is that everyone is trying to proof that Turks are not the same as ancient and modern Central Asian Turks. It is just a simple lie, that is used by big intelligence agencies, i dont buy it, but you are free to buy it altough...
Actually, if you check the history of genetic research, Anatolian people seemed as Central Asian and Mongoloid
as this map
After the modern more rational research, it changed
Your theories sounds like a Greek who insists that all things were invited by ancient Greeks
Your comment sounds like a CIA troll, with the view of point: "throw dirt enough, and some will stick" and you are most probably the victim of CIA strategies based on the philosophy of Joseph Goebels:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
The lie in our situation, is that everyone is trying to proof that Turks are not the same as ancient and modern Central Asian Turks. It is just a simple lie, that is used by big intelligence agencies, i dont buy it, but you are free to buy it altough...
To clarrify my point with an example. Why do the general Turk hating people, not keep theirselves busy with the selling of for example the lie that ancient 4th-5th century Caucasian German tribes are not the same as the modern West European German tribes? Why does the general English literature, not seperate the terms German-ic and German-ish to distinguish the ancient and modern Germans? Why do the same people keep on insisting with the "ic" and "ish" additional endings on the word "Turk"?
And most importantly, you do not have the vision to see the real picture behind the curtains. At our site, our goal is to show the real picture behind the curtains. If you want to enlighten yourself, feel free to read our articles at:
Your theory has a point but it is far from to proof that Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Türkiye Turks = Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Ancient & Modern Central Asian Turks.
Sorry, not to be blind as much as a romantic nationalist.
The point which makes sense is,
for example
approximately, we can match Haplogroup G with Georgeans (they have one of the highest percent in their society.)
not all Haplogroup G in Turkey are not coming from converted and Turkificated Georgeans. There are some Turkish tribes have also this haplogroup
But your sources are too weak to proof that origin of haplogroups in Turkey is Central Asia
again an example
Hakan Şükür was one the famous football player in Turkey.
We suppose that his haplogroup is I. He also declared that he has albanian ancester, nobody has any idea of his ancester before. Every body thought that he was an ordinary Turk
so should I believe that his haplogroup is coming from Kazan Tatars Turks (as you said) or from his albanian ancester?
First people in Central Asia were Europoid, but you are ignoring current Mongoloid effects in Central Asians and saying that
You are accepting that Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Türkiye Turks = Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Ancient & Modern Central Asian Turks.
Modern Central Asian Turks???
Kazakh Turks have 86,7% of Haplogroup G. How do the Kazakh Turks originate out of the Georgians?
And the mutations that define the Y-DNA haplogroups arose tens of thousands of years ago. How old is the Albanian, Georgian languages and how old is the Turk language? What is the origin of the oldest human language, the language of the Sumerians? In the past 20 years, extraordinary researchers like Kazım Mirşan and Servet Somuncuoğlu, performed studies which presented the results that the Proto Turks were the ancestors of all Eurasian populations.
Archaeological findings, like the Tamga's, which define the ancient ethnic origin of middle age Turk tribes, are found in the graves and other archaeological findings of many people/graves from Eurasian regions(from Europe to Central Asia) dating to thousands of years ago. For example, the famous skeletal remains of "Ötzi" from Italy of 3300 BCE had tattoos which were equal to these Middle Age Turk Tamga's from West Eurasian regions(from Central Asia to Europe).
These books of Servet Somuncuoğlu contain very important data and proof about the Proto Turks:
Sumerians spoke a Proto Turk language, and their people where the same Proto Turk people whom made migrations in West Eurasian regions(from Europe to Central Asia) dating at least beginning from 13.000 BCE until the Sumerian Period. Read http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12269 for more information. Everywhere these Proto Turks went, they left traces of the same Middle Age Turk Tamgas.
To conclude, these Proto Turks are the ancestors of all West Eurasian populations, and partially ancestors of East Eurasian groups.
First people of Central Asia, date back to Neolithic / Bronz Age and earlier. What you dont understand, is that these Proto Turks were the same as the West Eurasian(Europoid is not a logical description) originated Sakha, Huns and Turks until the 5th-9th centuries AD. After the 5th century AD, these people performed major migrations to the Western regions of Eurasia. So, at the time of the Mongol Empire, the East Eurasian originated Turks(not equal to the root of the Sakha, Huns and Turks) merged together with the West Eurasian originated Turks(equal to the root of the Sakha, Huns and Turks) in Central Asia. Thats why the frequencies of parts of modern Central Asia became 50%-50% West-East Eurasian origin.
But, the most important fact, what if the Proto Turks of 5000 BCE in Europe were people with West Eurasian and East Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups? That would mean that the Proto Turks are equal to people of West and East Eurasian origin. It does not matter if the core of the Proto Turks was of West Eurasian origin, the East Eurasian groups were also Turks.
In ancient Germany, Spain and Hungary, 5000 BCE, West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups like G2a, R1b and T1a were found together with East Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups like C1 and C6, among the Proto Turks of the same ancient Europe region cultures.
Also, the term "Mongol" can not refer to a nation or an anthropological type, it is not logical, why? Because, the Mongols were a confederation of Turk tribes that occured in the time of Genghis Khan. Earlier than that, you cannot see the term "Mongol" used as referring to an ancient nation or population. Therefore the term "East Eurasian" which also includes the Sino-Tibetian people is more properly and logically.
To give an example, The Y-DNA haplogroups N, O and Q were found among the skeletal remains of the oldest ancient Han Chinese graves. I hope you understand what this example stands for.
The East Eurasian originated minority of the Proto Turks were people whom lived in the regions/countires located to the East of Mongolia. The majority of the Proto Turks whom were the core/root of the Proto Turks, lived in the West Eurasian regions/countries located at the West of Mongolia. The genetic mutations occured tens of thousands of years ago, which means that parts of people with West and East Eurasian genetic structure could have lived together for thoudands of years, not knowing the fact of the occuring of genetic mutations.
The majority of the Modern Turks of Türkiye have West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups, but there is also a minority with East Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups. Looking at the Modern Turks of all regions of Central Asia i can see that the people with East Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups(C, N, O, Q) are in minority. There are dozens of genetic studies performed, we must analyze all of the results together. If you look at the results of only one study, then the picture is not clear. Also, the samples tested are to low, there are 100's of millions of Turks, testing only 3000-4000 samples does not show everything, not to forget the fact that we should only trust the studies done by academic departments. We cannot trust the conclusions made by profit making companies like National Genographics(associated with CIA) because their work is not scientific, and based on the samples send per post(not reliable for grouping the ethnic origins of the participants).
Also, ancient dna results are more important to define the origin of Central Asian Turks.
Altough the fact of the major migrations during the earlier periods in history, the Modern Central Asian Turks with West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups(E, G, J, L, R, T) are in majority. In some regions it may be different, but Central Asia is not only restricted to Kazakhstan.
Also, where to put the modern Chuvash, Bulgar, Gagauz, Bosniacs, Kumans, Azerbaijanis, Karachays, Avars, Crimeans, Karais etc.? Their ancestors clearly also migrated from Central Asia and they all have West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups.
Your theory has a point but it is far from to proof that Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Türkiye Turks = Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Ancient & Modern Central Asian Turks.
Sorry, not to be blind as much as a romantic nationalist.
The point which makes sense is,
for example
approximately, we can match Haplogroup G with Georgeans (they have one of the highest percent in their society.)
not all Haplogroup G in Turkey are not coming from converted and Turkificated Georgeans. There are some Turkish tribes have also this haplogroup
But your sources are too weak to proof that origin of haplogroups in Turkey is Central Asia
again an example
Hakan Şükür was one the famous football player in Turkey.
We suppose that his haplogroup is I. He also declared that he has albanian ancester, nobody has any idea of his ancester before. Every body thought that he was an ordinary Turk
so should I believe that his haplogroup is coming from Kazan Tatars Turks (as you said) or from his albanian ancester?
First people in Central Asia were Europoid, but you are ignoring current Mongoloid effects in Central Asians and saying that
You are accepting that Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Türkiye Turks = Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Ancient & Modern Central Asian Turks.
Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
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Posted: 15-Jun-2015 at 18:24
'Red' as a color for highlighting for emphasis; is restricted to admin mod staff use only. Refrain from doing so again. Or I simply will delete your post. Refer yourself to the CoC.
Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Türkiye Turks =
Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Ancient & Modern Central Asian Turks
Turks from Türkiye have 100% the same Ethnic Origin and the same Genetic
Structure as the Ancient and Modern Central Asian Turks.
The West Eurasian Y-Chromosome Haplogroups, whom are equal to the genetic
structure of the core/root tribes of the ancient Sakha's, Huns and Turks, and
whom are present in the Turks o f Türkiye are:
E, G, I, J, L, R, T
Now, for each haplogroup, i will proof with very solid data, evidence and
academic sources, in which Central Asian Turk tribes the origin of these Proto
Turk West Eurasian Y-Chromosome Haplogroups are located, using the data at
http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12267#p15199 and
http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12288, with the titles
named "Turk Nation:
Anthropology-Archaeology-Genetic-Haplogroups", "Y-DNA Genetic
Structure of Türkiye Turks = Y-DNA Genetic Structure of Ancient & Modern
Central Asian Turks" and "Turks from Türkiye have 100% the
same Ethnic Origin and the same Genetic Structure as the Ancient and Modern
Central Asian Turks".
Haplogroup E:
Originally posted by http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12267#p15199
-Among the Bulgar Turks, E1b1b1a1 and E1b1b1b2a is found with
41,4%(48/116) frequency.
-Among the Karai Turks, E1b1b1 and E1b1b1a1b2 is found with
19,1%(4/21).
-Among the Chuvash Turks, E1b1b1 is found with 13,6%(6/44).
Originally posted by http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12267#p15199
-Among the Avar Turks, Haplogrup J is found with 72%(30/42),
90%(13/15) and 94,0%(17/18) frequencies. The subgroups belong to J1, J2 and
J2b.
-Among the Uygur Turks Haplogrup J2 is found with 34%,
Among the Uzbek Turks in the Balkh region of Afghanisthan, Haplogroup J2
is found with a percentage of 60,0%(3/5).
-Among the Uzbek Turks Haplogrup J and J2 is found with 34,8%.
-Among the Azerbaijan Turks in Azerbaijan, Haplogroup J is found with a
percentage of 57,9%(11/19).
-Among the Kumik Turks, the total frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup J1+J2 is
42,5%(31/73).
-Among the Kuban Nogay Turks, the total frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup
J1+J2 is 37,9%(33/87).
-Among the Balkar Turks, the total frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup J1+J2
is 19,3%(26/135).
-Among the Karachay Turks, the total frequency of Y-DNA Haplogroup J1+J2
is 18,9%(13/69).
-Among a group of Kazakh Turks, the Y-DNA Haplogroup J is found with a
frequency of 18%.
-The descendants of the founder of the Qajar royal family, the grandsons
of Mohammad Khan Qajar and Fath-Ali Shah Qajar were tested for Y-DNA,
their haplogroup was J1.
-Among the Karai Turks, J1 and J2 is found with 47,6%(10/21).
-Among the Chuvash Turks J is found with 15,9%(7/44).
-Among the Kazan Tatar Turks Haplogroup J is found with
15,1%(8/53).
-Among the Tuzmazinsky Tatar Turks Haplogroup J is found with
10,0%(5/50).
-Between the years 800 BCE - 100 AD, among the Sakha Turks from the
Altai Republic region, the Y-DNA haplogroup J2a is found.
-Among the Proto Turks, in Hungary, during the years between 1270 -
1100 BCE, J2a is found.
Originally posted by http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12267#p15199
-In Türkiye, among the Avshar Turks(Oghuz Tribe), Haplogrup L is found
with a frequency of 56,7%.
-Among the Kyrgyz Turks of Xinjiang, Haplogroup L is found with a
frequency of 25,0%.
-Among the Uygur Turks of Xinjiang, Haplogroup L is found with a
frequency of 12,5%.
-Among the Avar Turks of Daghestan, Haplogrup L is found with a
frequency of 9,52%.
-At the Middle Age Turks, for example in China, Sayyid Ajjal Shams
al-Din Omar and his grandson Zheng He(Haji Mahmud Shams) belonged to
Y-DNA Haplogroup L1a during the years between 1400 - 1500 AD.
Originally posted by http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12267#p15199
-In the Altai Republic, among the Kazakh Turks, Haplogroup
K*(xL, N, O, P) is found with a frequency of 38,8%.
-Among the Kazakh Turks from China, Haplogroup K*(xN,O,P) is
found with a frequency of 2.4%(1/41).
-Among the Kazakh Turks from Kazakhstan, Haplogroup T is found with a
frequency of 1.1%(1/95).
-Among the Chuvash Turks, haplogroup K*(xL,N,O1,O3c,P) is found
with a frequency of 17.7%(3/17).
-Among the Tuva Turks from China, haplogroup K*(xN1c1, O*, P*) is
found with a frequency of 59.0%(30/51), 52.0%(27/51) and 15.0%(7/48).
-Among the Tuva Turks, haplogroup K*(xN1*, O*, P*) is found with
a frequency of 8.9%(10/113) and 13.9%(5/36).
-Among the Tuva Turks, haplogroup K*(xL,N,O,P) is found with a
frequency of 9.8%(10/102).
-Among the Yugur Turks, haplogroup K*(xL,N,O1,O3c,P) is found with a
frequency of 48.2%(27/56).
-Among the Yugur Turks from China, haplogroup K*(xN,O,P) is found with a
frequency of 6.3%(2/32).
-Among the Gagauz Turks, haplogroup T is found with a frequency of
6.3%(3/48).
-Among the Avar Turks, haplogroup T is found with a frequency of
4.8%(2/42).
-Among the Uzbek Turks from China, haplogroup K*(xN,O,P) is found
with a frequency of 26.1%(6/23).
-Among the Uzbek Turks from Afghanistan, haplogroup T is found with a
frequency of 3.6%(1/28).
-Among the Azerbaijan Turks from Iran, haplogroup T is found with a
frequency of 7,9%(5/63).
-Among the Azerbaijan Turks, haplogroup K*(xL,N,O1,O3c,P) is
found with a frequency of 10,3%(3/29).
-Among the Uygur Turks, haplogroup K*(xN,O,P) is found with a frequency
of 18.0%(9/50) and 12.8%(5/39).
-Among the Uygur Turks, haplogroup T is found with a frequency of
2.1%(1/48).
-Among the Quechua tribe of the Natives of Peru, haplogroup T is found
with a frequency of 27,3%(3/11). Among the Quechua tribe of the
Natives of Bolivia, haplogroup T is found with a frequency of
1,8%(1/55).
-Among the Xibo tribe whom speak an Altaic language, haplogroup T is
found with a frequency of 12,5%(1/8).
-Among the Xibo tribe whom speak an Altaic language, haplogroup
K*(xN,O,P) is found with a frequency of 9.4%(3/32) and
4.9%(2/41).
For detailed information about Haplogroup T you can visit our page at:
http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=12277
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Y-DNA Turkey Turks = Y-DNA Central Asian Turks
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Topic: Y-DNA Turkey Turks = Y-DNA Central Asian Turks
If you can keep this way of speech, I can talk you forever.
