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Topic ClosedAfrican lion vs Grizzly Bear

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Kratos View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: African lion vs Grizzly Bear
    Posted: 15-Oct-2015 at 22:03
Originally posted by J.A.W.

Originally posted by Tigris

And from my findings which have not been fabricated nor biased , the King of Beasts has been defeated by another member of the felidae ...namely the Tiger . And it has not been a scanty or exceptionable result.






There is a specific thread for that.

While the morphology of the biggest cats is very similar, & so much so that individual physical condition, personality & combat skill all can be the deciding factor in any given particular match-up, it is a surely a reasoned/evidentially validated call - to fairly state as a given fact..

Yes, on balance, given equivalence in general variables, the record supports an advantage is held by Leo.

The reputation of the lion as vertiable 'King of the Beasts' as prime land predator, does indeed - stack up in reality..


(Just read this post) so I just want to say this ........    You are right J.A.W about there being a specific thread for that - But I was merely responding to the unattested claim of the lion being the king of the beasts when confronted not only with the bear family but ANY of the felidae family , which obviously includes the tiger first before any of the other felidaes. That was very cleverly put in this thread , a very sneaky way to attack the strong and beautiful and ferocious tiger once again. Which is why I wrote it here . Why are you picking on it almost over a month later . Leave your personality out of this.

The tiger is an apex land predator with superb striking skills and is able to swim in water . And I disagree with your statement about the records held by Leo ....Some of these olden day fights staged were between a male lion and a female tiger . Prime in his findings has not been smart enough to distinguish a tigress and a male tiger.

And according to Martial's records of lion - tiger duels in ancient Rome,  the tiger was the winner. Advantage Panthera Tigris.

Right , it is not pleasant for CV to have to deal with this every day . He has done a fantastic job so far and I am going to respect what he said on the actual lion -tiger thread. Yes I want to contribute on other threads as I have been on the animal ones . 

For the record CV I am not going around on topics looking for someone and snipping. I like the saying Silence is Golden and I will try to implement it . 




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2015 at 23:32
'King of the Beasts' is a title accorded to the lion since ancient times..

Humans have indeed sought to emulate the lion's 'majestic' characteristics, hence the 
terms such as 'lion hearted' & 'leonine'.. whereas bears, & the solitary cats are not perceived similarly..

There is a poster who goes by Tigerrr who is oddly similar in his one-eyed & pigheaded/purblind
dismissal of these well-known historical attributes which pertain to the lion in multiple cultural contexts..

He even seeks to claim that lions are mere scavengers, but in fact it is bears who are well known as
'dumpster divers' & bears were unable to win a place in the sun on the wide plains of Africa, where
the 'King of the Beasts' has shown it is capable of relegating all other animals to subject status..
Be Modest In Thyself..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2015 at 23:39
YOU are the partisan fan who can't seem to accept facts and science .  Lions don't live in the jungle , tigers do . So Tigers are the king of the JUNGLE .

 You got personal with me on the Sikh Akali topic by saying it was ironical that the word singh means lion and that was uncalled for . Well at least I have not called the lion derogatory names as you and another pollutant have . You keep calling the tiger sneaky and treacherous .  In my posts I have not once called a lion any derogatory word . 

I quote you ....'Humans have indeed sought to emulate the lion's 'majestic' characteristics, hence the 
terms such as 'lion hearted' & 'leonine'.. whereas bears, & the solitary cats are not perceived similarly..'


You could not answer my question then as to why the lion was not included in Animal Planet's Most Extreme Strength programme .....And then why is there no African martial art that is based on the lion's majestic characteristics? 

The tiger's power and striking swipes have surely been emulated by humans in kung fu and other martial art disciplines. 









Edited by Kratos - 16-Oct-2015 at 00:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2015 at 02:32
Originally posted by Kratos

YOU are the partisan fan who can't seem to accept facts and science .  Lions don't live in the jungle , tigers do . So Tigers are the king of the JUNGLE .

 You got personal with me on the Sikh Akali topic by saying it was ironical that the word singh means lion and that was uncalled for . Well at least I have not called the lion derogatory names as you and another pollutant have . You keep calling the tiger sneaky and treacherous .  In my posts I have not once called a lion any derogatory word . 

I quote you ....'Humans have indeed sought to emulate the lion's 'majestic' characteristics, hence the 
terms such as 'lion hearted' & 'leonine'.. whereas bears, & the solitary cats are not perceived similarly..'


You could not answer my question then as to why the lion was not included in Animal Planet's Most Extreme Strength programme .....And then why is there no African martial art that is based on the lion's majestic characteristics? 

The tiger's power and striking swipes have surely been emulated by humans in kung fu and other martial art disciplines. 


Kratos/Tigris/r

Who mentioned "King of the Jungle"? Was it Rudyard Kipling? Not me, anyhow..

Although of course lions do live in certain forest areas too..

I do not recall any 'Animal Planet' question.. but it is a generally unscientific sensationalist TV show..

Kung Fu exponents also claim the "Lions roar" technique.. so what?

What is your knowledge base regarding native Afican 'martial arts' anyhow?
Perhaps you could dedicate a specfic thread to them?

Certainly, despite the inherent morpholgical similarities between lion & tiger, which are inevitable given their recent  evolutionary divergence..

& inspite of sharing significantly advantageous  primary carnivore jaw/dentition & power biting prowess over even larger body weight bears, lions do show harder biting characteristics than their tiger cousins.. ..along with the added combat strength/stamina - due to the measurably larger/capacious lion heart..
..a by-product of the greater testosterone produced by competitive social living situations,  for lions..



Addit:  Singh does mean lion, right? 
But how is stating that 'personal' to you? I just dont see it..

It is not me 'personally' who calls the solitary cats ( inc'the tiger, leopard, cougar & etc) 
'sneaky, cowardly/treacherous' that is - obviously - why I qualify those emotive descriptors with 'marks'..

..nor did I make a spurious claim about 'lions' who behave like hyenas.. a creature saddled with a worse
rep' - deserved, or otherwise - than any cat..


These quoted  terms are on the historical record, as human evaluations, but they do stand in contrast to
notable characteristics of lion 'boldness/magnaminity'.. can "YOU" cite a "lion acting as hyena" reference?

Kindly cease & desist the 'personal' approach, & keep discussions on a more scholarly basis, ta..





Edited by J.A.W. - 16-Oct-2015 at 02:54
Be Modest In Thyself..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2015 at 09:40
CV , again I am having trouble logging in as Kratos . I was logged out and the database tells me that no username such as 'Kratos' exist when I attempt to get a new password. Avery strange and frustrating glitch. Forgive my reincarnation on this account . 

1 . J.A.W, you will not refrain me from the postings I have written on the tiger emerging victorious over a lion . My posts are more on a scholarly basis . You don't want to accept facts . Who spoke of the Jungle Book? I called the tiger the king of the jungle , and it has nothing to do with Rudyard Kipling . 

2. Thank you for giving me the name of the martial arts derived after the lion .  Does Lion Roar technique constitute one  of the 5 Kung Fu disciplines of fighting ? You will probably answer yes but the truth is it doesn't . Now I did accept there is a martial after the lion , though a secondary one. l I never said there wasn't one.

3. Then you have come to biting force again . Why repeat points made over and over ? As CV said it becomes repetitive and boring .  But since you said this : '& inspite of sharing significantly advantageous  primary carnivore jaw/dentition & power biting prowess over even larger body weight bears, lions do show harder biting characteristics than their tiger cousins.. ..'       
I would like to state fact , not personal opinion on this . 

From  http://listverse.com/2012/11/05/top-10-animal-bites-that-will-completely-destroy-you/



And the tiger ranks at 9 with a bite force of 1050 psi . 




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2015 at 10:03
And please stop assuming I am 'tigerrr' or 'r' or 'pckts' or any other tiger fan who you probably have encountered on Yuku or Carnivora etc . You were correct with the first names you said .... Yes Tigris and Kratos are me. But tigerrr and r are not me.  So if you are thinking and trying to state the fact that this is just one biased tiger fan who is not accepting facts and science then you are wrong my friend .  I am just a new guy who joined AE . 

You said .....

'I do not recall any 'Animal Planet' question.. but it is a generally unscientific sensationalist TV show..'

Wow so Animal Planet is a generally unscientific sensationalist show . Well in that documentary they got the rest of the animals in the top 10 list right , and I guess then they favoured the tiger and decided to put it in the list and leave out the lion? To please the audience huh. I should write to them and ask if their documentaries are unscientific and biased. Honestly I would want to know why the lion did not feature in that strength programme . 

You finished by saying .....
'Kindly cease & desist the 'personal' approach, & keep discussions on a more scholarly basis, ta..'

I like this and I kindly request you to give yourself the same advice.  Ta .
 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2015 at 10:05
CV , please I would like one of my original accounts back . I feel like I am being led into saying things to defend my posts and then I am banned. Which is not fair . 

I am having difficulties not only with the Tigris account , but also the Kratos one .  I am not on here to pollute your threads . 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2015 at 17:35
I can do that once not twice... for now this account and the Kratos are suspended. I can appreciate your claim of not deliberately doing this and that bugs are the problems. Ntl the security of the forum requires that I take all necessary action to safeguard it.

I will again relay these problems to the admin. Be patient..as he is currently not available.

Do not create another account. If you do I will ban you period.. And while I regret the frustration and problems associated with this and believe that you are honestly experiencing problems... I do not have the authority to investigate or correct domain log in issues.



Check back periodically for status. Again my regrets.

CV
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2015 at 17:46
Thread closed.

Personalities and conflicts that potentially result in Coc violations will work no better here, than elsewhere.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2015 at 09:17
Thread has been reopened.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2015 at 14:25
Thanks

as for the spammer who is just trying to cover up the sources previously showed of the lions bite force, the lion that used in that study was a 2 year old juvinile and nearly maneless lion done by Mr Brady barr:
45324501 57

45324501 60

who he had his own show:

The record bite as shown on the previous page by a lion was nearly 10,000 newtons, there is no record on hand of tigers even biting 5,000 newtons, which would be just half the lions biting strength, as shown, the lion has a much stronger breaking point, a bigger skull and refferences that show its psi range, it would be illogical to think that a tiger who has a smaller skull, weaker canine breaking point and hunts much smaller animals on average, which all points to a weaker jaw strength over all, toppled in with its longer fangs, in terms breaking point, anyone can test this theory, break a fully long pencil, than take a pencil the size of half of your finger and try to break that one, the shorter will be nearly impossible to break, while the longer one snaps as easy a s twig.

And heres another account between a (as stated) huge bear:

article211294395 5 001

Sadly for all the time tigers have lived with bears, there isnt a single account of a siberian tiger killing a full grown male, which suspects it to being out of the tigers capabilitys, ambush or not...for the same reason a tiger couldnt just ambush a sleeping bull elephant and kill it. The size and knowledge of bears habits would be too great for the tiger to want to challange, if any bear was in the same vicinity of lions like tigers usually are, I would assume there would be reportings of the hundreds where bears are killed.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2016 at 17:12
Be honset to thy self!
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