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to clone or not to clone...that is the question

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Poll Question: human cloning...yes or no
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Kentuckian View Drop Down
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  Quote Kentuckian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: to clone or not to clone...that is the question
    Posted: 20-May-2005 at 19:49

do you think cloning is morally and ethically right.............?

give reasons...and no i don't want to hear your complaining about the question not being specific enough!

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 19:54
I couldn't care less really, its not exactly the ideal means od reproduction, so i think most people will stick to the old fashioned way.

All cloned humans should be regarded as fully human though, and accorded the same rights and treatment, no wimping out on that front, and there won't be any problems, beyond pointless social prejedice that is, but then everyone has to deal with that in some form or another.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 20:28

A good question is: Why clone? What purpose does it serve? We humans have no problem reproducing the traditional way, so there is No need to clone. These clones will only become abused, if lets say someone underground created slave clones

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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 20:45
I'd have to say no because of all the wrongs that could come from it.  If the world weren't so triwsted and evil I would have no problem with it.
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 22:52
It is going to happen anyway, so I really don't care that much. If they only get to live a few years I would feel bad for them, but people with horrible genetic problems already reproduce anyway, so I can't see how it is any different.

And if the counter-argument is raised that this would be an artificial way of reproduction, I know of cases of people reproducing via fertility treatments, so this is no a valid counter argument because people who can't reproduce "naturally" are already giving creating children with their bad genes by artificial genes.

People's desire to reproduce is very ingrained. Even if one has the worse illness in the world, our survival instict kicks in and we want to create more people just like us in the world.
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 23:50

100% pro cloning.  We could learn so much, of course to find out the stuff we really want to know we would have to keep it secret because they wouldnt be the most ethical of experiments, but yeah.  Imagine using cloning technology to re-grow lost limbs or organs. 

I am currently writing a story about fake manufactured people, and how they are peopple just like the rest of us (its my commentary on how with just the right parts you can make a full person and that theres no such thing as the soul) and the descrimination they face from religious zealots who see them as abomonations, so right now Id be as pro-cloning as anyone could get.

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2005 at 05:20

No to cloning, we don't need it. Man is already too advanced for his liking and has absolutely no need for cloning. Your child dies for example, you clone a new one to ease the pain, which is sick. So it takes away natural emotions of loss from a person and makes a person really feel like there is no one who can say when his relatives, or infant children die and go whereever they go. But there is and must be a higher force to do such a thing, bringing back dead people or using cloning for any other purpose is the utter peak of human weakness of mind, and shows that simple scientific curiosity(a superficial emotion/feeling) can mess us all up. Man is a too pathetic creature to have the power of cloning.

And Tobodai. Cloning would be used for such treatment as you said, but that is just wishful thinking about any future scientific achievement. Even Nobel didn't think Dynamite would be used as military means in the future, but it happened. And cloning would probably be in a 90% radius, a military achievement, while  being advertised as the greatest medical achievement, where rich Westerner children get their health to the tip top level.

Cloning will lead to another low point for man as i see it. Will make him feel proud of this retarded achievement that he sees as "progress". A chain reaction will come of it.

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  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2005 at 13:16
Dont care because it will happen anyway, but suspect that it will be used mostly for the bad rather than good.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2005 at 13:35

One of the most unecessary developments around, more expensive, less fun and completely inferior to the existing method. In other words exactly the same as any other product manufactured and sold these days. If people are stupid enough to pay 10 times the amount of money for a cheap pair of trainers with a designer label they'll do the same with a cloned baby.

The only redeeming feature I can think of is it annoys the bible bashers, it's worth keeping for that alone.

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2005 at 14:54
they'll do the same with a cloned baby.


Is it legal to buy babies then?
Why do people assume that clones wouldn't be treated the same as any other human? I think that alone is pretty scary.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Perseas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2005 at 16:48

I think we must make a distinction between therapeutic cloning and human cloning.

Therapeutic only involves the cloning specific organs or tissues, while human cloning involves the artificial inducement of what are basically  twins. As for human cloning, there will be some certain problems. I dont believ though, there will be somekind like identity crisis. Sure the clone and the original will share genes but they won't share their environment nor the same space, which means that they start out different anyway, clones would have different memories and thus would be distinct and different people, exactly like twins are right now.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2005 at 18:41
It's a vary undesirable development, IMO. It may be very dangerous.
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2005 at 21:53

I see no reason in cloning humans...we've already got enough people standing in this world.  Why not exploit them, if we're going to exploit clones?

Grrr..
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2005 at 02:29

I am currently writing a story about fake manufactured people, and how they are peopple just like the rest of us (its my commentary on how with just the right parts you can make a full person and that theres no such thing as the soul) and the descrimination they face from religious zealots who see them as abomonations, so right now Id be as pro-cloning as anyone could get.

Come on Tobodai, I don't think clones are abominations but man's greatest mockery of God.

 

I personally believe that clones would be exploited: "Sorry Johnny 2 Johnny 1 needs your liver, its ok we'll just make Johnny 3."

Or the obvious choice, brainwashed clone army... and no I haven't seen the 3rd star wars

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2005 at 06:55

Well obviously there would need to be equal rights laws, but stopping cloning would be like stopping drug use, impossible and counter-productive. 

And you wouldnt like my story, its also about how man created god to legitimize his evils and how god is a mokery of man

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2005 at 14:24
What babble is this of counter productivness. Scientific evolution as this is never good for th overall status of man, cloning is sick and creates nothing but new problems to deal with and to what we will create/invent another set of new problems... nothing but confusion will come of it.
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2005 at 15:22

and thats the same with any new technology.  Therefore should we cater to those who fear the future and sit complacent?  People used to fear modern medicine that turned out being so good for us, they used to fear the atmoic bombs which gave us 50 years of relative peace...

In the future people that are afraid fo cloning wil be looked at like peopel who thought the sun orbited theEarth are now.  From a historical perspective, no technology is too different from its predeccesors, and people always react the same way.

Its the same reason people make all these movies about robots taking over, when in effect a rorbot with the right programming would be a greater leader than any human ever could be. 

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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2005 at 15:55
Originally posted by Tobodai


Its the same reason people make all these movies about robots taking over, when in effect a rorbot with the right programming would be a greater leader than any human ever could be.


<dada>
Hail to our robot leader of technological oppresion! Let our flesh and blood serve as means for its most gracious silicon master's plans!

Clones us, sweet electronic lord, so that thy our bodies can feed the powerplants that keep you alive.

May no hacker ever touch thy sacred code, and no trojan horse submit thy will.

0010110101101
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2005 at 15:57
lol, exactly, people are too dumb for self government, we need either better evolved aliens or robots to rule us.
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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2005 at 18:55

"and thats the same with any new technology.  Therefore should we cater to those who fear the future and sit complacent?  People used to fear modern medicine that turned out being so good for us, they used to fear the atmoic bombs which gave us 50 years of relative peace...

In the future people that are afraid fo cloning wil be looked at like peopel who thought the sun orbited theEarth are now.  From a historical perspective, no technology is too different from its predeccesors, and people always react the same way."

And wasn't the society before science already perfect if to ponder about it? There was nothing wrong with the tribal structure, o let's say 5,000 years ago or with the one existing today in some African tribes. So, science is more of a curse then anything else.

There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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