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What is the correct version of Saladins name?

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What is the correct version of Saladins name?
    Posted: 10-Jun-2005 at 02:41

 

its An ARABIC word

your earlier post IS saying ARABIC words "with persian orgin", the orgin thing can lead to long discussions since it was always known that the Quran is 100% Arabic.

the Arabic Words in the Quran which some persian claim that it has a Persian orgin are not realy proven since we Arab ALSO has other meanings and roots for the same words. it is possible that both used the same words, also many language scholars said that Arabic language is more than 5000 years old, we had the people of mesopotamia between us so there are many possibilites.

well the imortant thing is it is an ARABIC word

like the word ALMANAC is an English word with Arabic orgin the same with the word Alcohol is English word with Arabic orgin.

the above english words are proven to has Arabic orgin

 

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  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2005 at 02:49
Hey Azimuth, I guess you're back home cuz you've got evidence and reasons with you am I right? if so, then begin the debate in the thread I opened while ago (Persian words in Quran)
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2005 at 03:22

iam not back at home i just finished my exams

and i didnt say i have evidence and reasons and iam not a scholar in language or found a site or abook talking that these words are Arabic not persians as the one you found. i guess if it is that much known it would be a big thing and Arabs will care about replaying. but i guess its Iranian Thing trying to relate everything Great to iran.

what i meant earlier is that i dont have my dictonaries to get you those roots they have roots and other meanings.

 

 

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  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2005 at 03:57
wow slow down, I know I'm trying to have mature discussion on a sensetive subject that Arabs would curse me for it. I guess that's part of your ignorance by saying Quran is 100% Arabic -- Don't forget, we're talking linguistics here not spiritually! (Even though spritually Zoroastrism has affected islam in many aspects!) -- . You said "we had the people of mesopotamia between us so there are many possibilites." So, as much as there's a possibility of Persian borrowing words from Semetic Langs., there's a possibilty that those words were Persian and were later entered Arabic culture and then to Quran. You can't deny it because you said it youself 15 minutes ago!. now let's hold it right there and allow me  to say what I'm doing here is supporting the second part of the debate by providing unique reasoning from validated sources. What are you doing? rejecting them for no real reason and repeating you don't access to your sources! now you must either keep out of the discussion or bring some evidence supporting your side of the story to keep this debate running. For now, the mentioned discussion (Persian words in Quran) can be ended resulting my conlusion: Quran contains many words with Persian roots.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2005 at 05:36

Originally posted by ramin

wow slow down, I know I'm trying to have mature discussion on a sensetive subject that Arabs would curse me for it. I guess that's part of your ignorance by saying Quran is 100% Arabic -- Don't forget, we're talking linguistics here not spiritually! (Even though spritually Zoroastrism has affected islam in many aspects!) -- . You said "we had the people of mesopotamia between us so there are many possibilites." So, as much as there's a possibility of Persian borrowing words from Semetic Langs., there's a possibilty that those words were Persian and were later entered Arabic culture and then to Quran. You can't deny it because you said it youself 15 minutes ago!. now let's hold it right there and allow me  to say what I'm doing here is supporting the second part of the debate by providing unique reasoning from validated sources. What are you doing? rejecting them for no real reason and repeating you don't access to your sources! now you must either keep out of the discussion or bring some evidence supporting your side of the story to keep this debate running. For now, the mentioned discussion (Persian words in Quran) can be ended resulting my conlusion: Quran contains many words with Persian roots.

yea whatever as long as it is " YOUR" conclusion

 

anyway there are many topics i want to post in them and didnt have time to do so in the last months and i have more time now.

 

 

 

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 21:34
Originally posted by azimuth

well the imortant thing is it is an ARABIC word

Is that because you said so?

What kind of use pre-Islamic Arabs would have had for words like heaven and hell. They had no knowledge of many of the concepts introduced by Islam to them, and did not believe in these concepts,. Why would they have words for concepts they never had to refer to?

I hope you know that Gabreil knows other languages beside Arabic

 

 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 03:18
Originally posted by Miller

Originally posted by azimuth

well the imortant thing is it is an ARABIC word

Is that because you said so?

What kind of use pre-Islamic Arabs would have had for words like heaven and hell. They had no knowledge of many of the concepts introduced by Islam to them, and did not believe in these concepts,. Why would they have words for concepts they never had to refer to?

I hope you know that Gabreil knows other languages beside Arabic

 

 

its look like that you read only that form what i wrote.

anyway it is arabic not because  i said so  its arabic word used by arabs exist in arabic books and language.

you can argue about its ORGIN yea like the guys above.

i gave examples about ENGLISH words with arabic ORGIN. they are english words used by english speaking people as an english word.

i hope that is clear enough for you. its ARABIC

 

 

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 15:29
 

I think you are saying if a word is borrowed from another language but is used in arabic that word becomes arabic

 

 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 07:39

 

the borrowed bit is not sure off since i still think that it is an arabic word

but generally if the word is used for more than 1000 years it is part of the language and for people who are using it its part of their language. before 1000 years there are many languages didnt develop yet.

also i dont know what part of my exampls you dont get is it the word part or the orgin part?

i will put it again in different examples from different languages

the word Aruz  which means rice is a SPANISH word and its an ARABIC  orgin.

the word mosque is an ENGLISH word with an Arabic orgin in Arabic it is Masjed.

so if you spoke to a spanish speaker and asked him if the word Aruz is spanish he will say YES and its originally ARABIC.

Arabic words does not exist in Spanish Dictionaries, that why they call it Spanish dictionaries. not Aarabic Spanish Dictionaries.

again the words are part of the language and the language consiste of these words putting aside where the words came from

if we call each word by its orgin then there is no such thing as spanish language since its a combination of latin and other languages.

hope that example is good enough.

 

 

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  Quote aakhonba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2005 at 14:46

[



Edited by aakhonba
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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2005 at 20:29

Originally posted by azimuth

the borrowed bit is not sure off since i still think that it is an arabic word



Many of these concepts were introduced to Arabs by Islam. What were the pre-Islamic Arabs talking about when they used words like heaven and hell in their conversation why did they have words for concepts they did not believe in or knew about



Originally posted by azimuth

but generally if the word is used for more than 1000 years it is part of the language

Interesting rule!



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  Quote Moustafa Pasha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2005 at 11:46
Originally posted by Fizzil

Salah al Din or Salahudin.. either way its an arabic name, NOTE not to say he was arab, definitly not, he was a kurd, but it was common to use names of arabic origins.

Moustafa Pasha

His real name in Arabic is Salah El Din Yousef Ibn Ayoub known in te islamic world as Khalifa Salah El Din El Ayoubi, who united the Moslem world and defeated the crusaders.

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  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 02:33
Originally posted by Miller

Originally posted by azimuth

but generally if the word is used for more than 1000 years it is part of the language

Interesting rule!

yep. it's actualy written in the introduction of every etymological book to prevent further claims... you know something like a "term and condition" label you see on products.

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  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 02:49
Originally posted by azimuth

the word mosque is an ENGLISH word with an Arabic orgin in Arabic it is Masjed.
so, for example "Iran" is an Arabic word because you were using it for many many years! right?!

Originally posted by azimuth

so if you spoke to a spanish speaker and asked him if the word Aruz is spanish he will say YES and its originally ARABIC.
NO they won't.... Nobody NORMAL will tell you the origin of a word when having conversations! besides, not everybody has studied linguistic.

Originally posted by azimuth

Arabic words does not exist in Spanish Dictionaries, that why they call it Spanish dictionaries. not Aarabic Spanish Dictionaries.
they must indicate the origin of the word, just like English dictionaries; when you see a de or fr you'll know they're German and French, or Persian dictionaries; if you see a "ain" it means it's Arabic "far" means French, so I assume all dictionaries indicate the origin of each word, maybe not Arabic ones.

Originally posted by azimuth

again the words are part of the language and the language consiste of these words putting aside where the words came from
that's why we have a science called etymology and linguistics.

Originally posted by azimuth

hope that example is good enough.
no it wasn't at all



Edited by ramin
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2005 at 03:02
Salahaddin is not an important figure as many think and here is why? The crusader states were going to disolve eventually. They can not handle the middle east. They were either going to marry natives or reject the church or get so weak that a band of 40 people can defeat them. So, Salahaddin just the right man in the right place. I still think that he is a great man. He was a great man because he was a product of Muslim tutors.
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  Quote aakhonba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2005 at 05:44
Middle East rocks
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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2005 at 21:14

Originally posted by Abbass

Salahaddin is not an important figure as many think and here is why? The crusader states were going to disolve eventually. They can not handle the middle east. They were either going to marry natives or reject the church or get so weak that a band of 40 people can defeat them. So, Salahaddin just the right man in the right place. I still think that he is a great man. He was a great man because he was a product of Muslim tutors.

Salahaddin is the person who weakened the Crusader states. Salahaddin' s campaigns are not only Battle of Hattin. He gave his entire life to this struggle.

But if you want to give credits to others also, do not forget the Seljuks of Rum, who at the end, managed to stop the Frederick Barbarossa' s invasion. He had the chance to reconquer Jerusalem.

I know he (Kurd) is not that lucky to be an Arab (the ultimate, Godly race, chosen by God) like his soldiers (Turks), but at least thank him huh? Do you think Crusaders would stop with Jerusalem? Why wouldn' t make a counter invasion by occupying Hijaz?

By this act, you are greatly offending the people who have fought and died for you.

Anyway, I am talking to a wall, everybody knows how you treat to your protectors.



Edited by HulaguHan
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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 02:41

Saladdin Army was not composed of Turks only,There was kurds and Sudanese and also barbars in his army,Even in His mamalik detachments there were georgians as well as Qipchaq turks,And Arabs.

Actually Arabs played a very active role in army of saladdin,there were many syrian desert nomads,Hejaz arab tribes and local syrian forces ,he aslo heavily used egyptian forces in his army.(his personal guards, fadayees, were not kurds or mamlukes they were Egyptians)

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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 02:58

I did not say all his army was Turkik. But yes I should have mentioned it.

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  Quote HulaguHan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 03:00

Not only Salahaddin, but also the infantry forces of all Seljuk Atabeghliks of that region were composed of non Turkik branches.

Turkiks formed the cavalry.

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