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Abraham Communicates with Egyptian Pharaoh

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archaeologynerd View Drop Down
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  Quote archaeologynerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Abraham Communicates with Egyptian Pharaoh
    Posted: 12-Nov-2014 at 19:43
In Genesis 12.10-20, Abraham seems to have had face-to-face conversation with the Pharaoh of Egypt, without translators. But how could this have taken place? The biblical narrative provides clues as to how this would have been perfectly feasible during the Middle Bronze Age. What geographical and linguistic data from both the biblical text and our knowledge of Mesopotamian history provide the answer to this question?
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2014 at 21:06
I think the Bible just ignored the linguistic problem, unless it aided the plot line (eg Joseph with his brothers in Egypt).
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2014 at 00:17
or language was still the same Sidney.Regards.SmileEgyptian from Roseta stone,Demotico,it has syllables that we have included inside our modern languages.So we still speak the same.
NOTE: How many dynasties we knew in Ancient Egypt?Where did they go after fall of dynastie?How many of them we do not know?


Edited by medenaywe - 28-Dec-2014 at 00:33
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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2014 at 07:20
According to the Bible account it was at the Tower of Babel that languages were confounded, and only then did people scatter across the face of the Earth 'according to their nations'. This implies that there would be no kingdom in Egypt until after the Babel incident, meaning that the Egyptians spoke a different language.

But Babel is a myth, and so is Abraham. Abraham (with his wife Sarah and nephew Lot) talk to many foreigners - the Egyptians, the Amorites, the Sodomites, the Hittites, the Philistines, other Canaanites - plus there were foreign servants in Abraham's household. These all had different languages according to the Table of Nations, yet linguistic translation is hardly ever mentioned in the Bible.

The sons of Abraham also talked to Philistines and Canaanites, but perhaps they learnt the language from their father?

But later still, when Joseph was in Egypt, he was quite comfortable talking to Potipher, Potipher's wife, the jailer, the baker, the cupbearer and the Pharaoh. Where did he learn Egyptian? It wasn't a language known to his brothers, so it wasn't used at home or in trade. It must have been a different language because, as already noted, Joseph's brothers couldn't understand it. Yet we are also told those brothers talked to the Egyptian servants, so someone was translating. Its clear that the Bible just largely ignores the presence of these translators or multi/bi-lingualists

Its lack of detail, not evidence of a single language.

Edited by Sidney - 28-Dec-2014 at 07:23
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2014 at 08:21
possibilities
1. "seems to". It may be lack of detail as Sidney said. (Moses wrote 600 years later.)
2. it wasn't long after Babel (ca Eber/Peleg)? All mythology gods seem to come from Sumerian. (Some researchers tie earliest Egyptian dynasty/dynasties with Sumerian king lists.)
3. in judaeo-christian "tongues" seems maybe abit like modern translators?
4. Hamito-Semitic includes Semitic and Egyptian. (Jews language could come from Egyptian? Or Egyptian/"Hamitic" could come from Semitic?)
shemsu Hor/schesoo Hor "Horus (shepherd) race" could possibly connect with Shemites or Horites? Or the "Set race" from earliest times in Egypt?
5. jews seem pretty adept at languages.
6. "joseph knew the 70/72 languages"?
7. 3 (or 4) primordial languages: Iranian has 3 as Arabic, Persian, Turkish.
8. kings courts would tend to have transaltors/etc.
9. compare modern international/colonial times?
10. maybe some common connection. Abraham was from Ur in northern or middle (not southern) Mesopotamia.
11. Egypt and Palestine had early relations.
12. a third common speech common to both/all?
13. sign language?

Abram/Abraham seems to have been in Egypt in late 1st dynasty (matches for the famine and plague/s) not  MBA. (Joseph was 3rd-4th dynasty. Moses was 12th dynasty.)

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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2014 at 11:30
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin

possibilities1. "seems to". It may be lack of detail as Sidney said. (Moses wrote 600 years later.)

Other Biblical tradition agrees with this;
Psalms 114:1 = When Israel went out from Egypt, the house of Jacob from a people of strange language,

Edited by Sidney - 28-Dec-2014 at 11:31
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2015 at 11:04
There are many historical examples as to how peoples of different cultures communicated.

1. The chancellory of the host country knows the language of the foreigner.

2. The foreigner knows the language of the host country.

3. Both the host and foreigner know a third language to communicate in.

We know that the Egyptians have had a presence in Palestine since Early Dynastic times, a presence enough for the natives to have had familiarity with the Egyptian language.   Conversely, the natives also had exposure from Mesopotamian influences as well from a remote period, hence they also had familiarity with such languages as Akkadian.   It is therefore not surprising that communication was made much the easier by learning more than one language.    When it came to economics, learning other languages was a must, if the foreigner wanted to get access to the resources of other nations.   Conversely as Egypt expanded it became necessary to learn foreign languages to ease tensions with it vassals or to communicate with other foreign powers.
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