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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: West Bank
    Posted: 29-Oct-2014 at 00:26
Yesterday, one of the top world news in Turkey was Israel's approval of new 1060 settlement,

but I didn't see this news in BBC news middle east section yesterday.

Today, Palestine's calls to UN about this issue is hot news,

but I think it is still not a good news for BBC.

That is good example how our acts are shaped

Because it is just effect-impact issue.

If you don't fell effect (such as news), I can't do impact (analyze, understand or improve action against that)

Of course, this problem is a global problem

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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2014 at 07:20
Slow day in Turkey yesterday, Ollios?

Here's a question for you. When you report events over and over and over again, when does the news change from actual news, into something resembling the rehashing of events already discussed? As far as I know it had already been announced that Israel was building in East Jerusalem, and a number of times by the BBC. The BBC, may I add, still considered to be the least biased news organization on the planet by far.

Let me ask you this question, Ollios. Were  you checking the BBC site because you generally consider the BBC news to be of high quality, or were you taken in by the usual conspiracy theorists aiming to stir up trouble between our respective cultures?

Here's a thing, Ollios, and I would consider this to be quite pertinent to the specific issue of building on this land. Had the Arab nations won against Israel, would they have given Israel the land Israel is on back, or even in its entirety?
Personally, my beliefs in land that was agreed should be returned is that they should have been returned. However they occupy land of those who went to war with them willingly, and would have likely either left them without the land, or at the very least governed by those who are asking for the land back. If you were in Israel's position, Ollios, what would you do for the very best of a bad situation?  
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2014 at 10:49
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Slow day in Turkey yesterday, Ollios?


Actually, yesterday I finished my second week outside the country, so it is hard to say that was it slow or not. If you want to mean anything, be clear

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Here's a question for you. When you report events over and over and over again, when does the news change from actual news, into something resembling the rehashing of events already discussed? As far as I know it had already been announced that Israel was building in East Jerusalem, and a number of times by the BBC. The BBC, may I add, still considered to be the least biased news organization on the planet by far.


If somebody's do same mistake over and over, that means conversation which done before means nothing.

ISIS have already entered many cities in Iraq and Syria, so is that means we can skip Kobane?

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Let me ask you this question, Ollios. Were  you checking the BBC site because you generally consider the BBC news to be of high quality,


*It is old habit from my student times in UK. Firstly, I was using it form checking forecast

*Even you can find simple english news so it is usefull for beginners.

*Third reason is trying to be open-mind, see different perspective.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


or were you taken in by the usual conspiracy theorists aiming to stir up trouble between our respective cultures?


Yeah, this is a good example for conspiracy theory. One of the my point in the first post is about reason of current hot discussions in the forum. Everybody has a point, everyone is right from different perspective. Because each one seeing just one part of reality.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


I would consider this to be quite pertinent to the specific issue of building on this land. Had the Arab nations won against Israel, would they have given Israel the land Israel is on back, or even in its entirety?


This is your perspective, here is my.

Let's think Arabs as Native Americans, and Israel as American colonists.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


However they occupy land of those who went to war with them willingly, and would have likely either left them without the land, or at the very least governed by those who are asking for the land back.


"willingly", I didn't expect to you.

You talked like someone who learnt history in church class or madrasas.
 
I will follow Socrates method. If your theory is true, it should be true for any case. Let's look at this scenario.

After the WW2

Germany(Israel) attacks French(Palestine)

because after the WW2 lots of Germen lost thier home and became refugees. Great Germany have turned small country. (Holocaust)

and UN(UK) sees the bad position of German refugees and says ok, you can take half of France(nearly all coast)

And French people don't accept this idea and declare war.

USA(other Arabs) helps France but they can't do it and take a beating.

USA has no power to continue war so he makes a peace. He has already a country and Germany is not a risk for him.

During the war, Germany gained all France but they are generous so they let French people take French highland.

after the 50-60 years, French people are still continuing to war with
guerrilla tactics and establish their own IRA.

French should be vandal or terrorist. They should not declared war, now Germany took those lands after a war so all lands belongs to him.

By the way each year Germany builts new settlements in French Highland because French people are still continuing war.

I tried to use the theme of WW2 to make it very easy to understand for Americans.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


If you were in Israel's position, Ollios, what would you do for the very best of a bad situation? 


At least, I know what I shouldn't do:more jewish settlements.

Maybe, you can't see but stopping Israel act like that, will be much more effective on organisations like ISIS.

and if you can't provide justice, there will be always PKK, IRA, ETA or HAMAS to try to provide it and they will be always a hero in someone's eyes.








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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2014 at 13:02
It seems Turkey, like Iran, prefers to focus on Israel, instead of internal problems and the obvious danger of Islamists in the region. Of course they hoped Israelis at least injured a Palestinian, not just building some apartments, in this case they had something to say in contrary to hundreds people who are being killed by their fellow Muslims everyday.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2014 at 14:02
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It seems Turkey, like Iran, prefers to focus on Israel, instead of internal problems and the obvious danger of Islamists in the region.


Issue is not just Israel, İsrael is just an example.

I can change it and make it about Ukraine.

I can't understand Russia policy how Abhazia deserve be indepented from Georgia, but Kosova doesn't from Serbia.

Simillary, the pain which is caused by Israel is real and happening but possiblity of Iran's Nuclear Weapons are more important for Americans

UN 23rd times accept that USA should stop embargo on Cuba. Now should Iran follow UN orders?

Now you can be sure that Israel gives extra 10 minutes to all jihadist to make their propoganda more longer.

Are you looking the world under the Afghans burqa, your pain shouldn't make you a blind against someone's pain. There are Israel parliamentarian who said we should kill arabs moms even with their unborn child.

I am feeling sad to secular people in Iran and also I am feeling sad for people in Palestine

By the way, Turkey has more historical rights to interested with Palestine then Iran. 



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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2014 at 15:14
Someone steals something from you that you have stolen it from another one, in this case someone who has more power or is supported by more powers can be the owner of it.

The fact is that migrations and occupations have happened several times throughout the history, for the same reason that we can't deport Turks and Arabs to their original lands in the Central Asia and Arabia, we can't do it about Jews in Israel, especially because the role of power.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2014 at 18:21
eliminate terrorists of the mad dog, Islamic-fundamentalist fascist type and you resolve the problem. in concert you also eliminate their funders. as this was all a preplanned continuation of their agendas in reaction to any thing done by the IG.

Peace in the ME is a myth as long as there is one Arab Islamist fanatic left alive to perpetuate it.

''Hamas and Fatah's Role in the Jerusalem Disturbances - Pinchas Inbari''

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/





Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 29-Oct-2014 at 18:24
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2014 at 18:27
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

eliminate terrorists of the mad dog, Islamic-fundamentalist fascist type and you resolve the problem. in concert you also eliminate their funders. as this was all a preplanned continuation of their agendas in reaction to any thing done by the IG.

Peace in the ME is a myth as long as there is one Arab Islamist fanatic left alive to perpetuate it.

''Hamas and Fatah's Role in the Jerusalem Disturbances - Pinchas Inbari''

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/







Israel and the War of Words

http://defenddemocracy.org/media-hit/may-clifford-d-israel-and-the-war-of-words/
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 00:48
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


Someone steals something from you that you have stolen it from another one, in this case someone who has more power or is supported by more powers can be the owner of it.


That is the problem; not powerful, rightful should take it

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


The fact is that migrations and occupations have happened several times throughout the history, for the same reason that we can't deport Turks and Arabs to their original lands in the Central Asia and Arabia, we can't do it about Jews in Israel, especially because the role of power.


As you know, Central Asia is not home of Turkic, it is home of Proto-Aryans

and like me, many Turkish people have just little percent of Turkic genetic material.

but I am seeing your point.

and I didn't offer anything about deleting Israel in the middle east map.

but denying decleration of Israel caused a holocaust for Arabs is same with denying Jewish pains which happened during the WW2

and ignoring reality of how fasict Italia and German were threat, Islamist Iran and Zionist Israel are same threat, is madness.

Did Native americans stop attacking during to American expantion to West?

Were they terrorist?

Apples don't equal with pears but Apples equal with apples

so I am just seeing people who are defending their country and issue is not just defending own country, during the Israel expantion, it is a life battle.

Originally posted by


Peace in the ME is a myth as long as there is one Arab Islamist fanatic left alive to perpetuate it.


Alan and Cyrus, I am just talking about this perspective. (thanks for this lively example CV)

If we can not change with sentences with this

Peace in the ME is a myth as long as there is one Arab Islamist fanatic,
                                                                 one Jew Zionist fanatic,
                                                                 one European Christian fanatic,
                                                                 one Turk fasict fanatic,
                                                                 one Kurd fasict fanatic... left alive to perpetuate it.

Yes, peace in ME will be stay as a myth



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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 02:04
The problem is that Muslims are going a wrong way, as Khomeini said if each Muslim threw just a bucket of water over Israel, it would be washed away. But unfortunately Muslims have chosen to go this way through terrorism, so they can't expect any support.

Of course it seems Iran, as the main sponsor of Palestinian terrorists, wants to build a nuclear weapon and uses it as those buckets of water over Israel, but Israel knows this is the only real danger and tries hard to stop it, we should wait to see what will happen.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 30-Oct-2014 at 02:06
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 02:44

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

The problem is that Muslims are going a wrong way, as Khomeini said if each Muslim threw just a bucket of water over Israel, it would be washed away. But unfortunately Muslims have chosen to go this way through terrorism, so they can't expect any support.


So that means you are accusing Indians for attacking people in Wild West and seeing them as a real reason of problem.
http://www.itjungle.com/tfh/geronimo.jpg

May I ask you something? Do you believe term State Terror?

Wrong way ???
How can you think that you can make rational discussions with a side which still attacking after peace treat. Israel continued to build new houses just after the peace treat in the past. 

They still didn't give up project to conquer all Jerusalem

As Ataturk said, "unless a nation's life faces a peril, war is murder"

If Israel is continuing to take all Palestinians have, not left them anyhing for fearing to lose.

All Palestinians will fight to end.

You can see them as an outlaw, but they always be a robin hood for someone
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 03:31
and people who accuse the Arab side as being vandal, terrorist for declareing wars(such as 1948 Arab–Israeli War)

If you had just a little EQ, you would do same thing with Arabs

the reality of 1946 is clear

How can you say that UN desicion was right?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ELBQWlwajCM/UHkz6r0ZzyI/AAAAAAAAAl4/b60xbPSnslY/s640/palestine+bahai+israel.jpg

after that Israel took more land.

Would Palestinians accept new large Israel (larger than UN plan)

Palestine is a women who was raped so their effort to punch or scratch is quite understandable for me. It won't solve anything but still I can understand

but when they try to respond, they are getting just new rapes.

also Jewish side is compared like that, after a great pains in WW2, I can understand a dream of land for just Jews in historical proposal lands.

 
 
 
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 03:40
I don't accuse anyone, but it can be true that Palestinians are repeating the same mistake that native Americans did against westerners, so it is possible they lose their whole land. If they don't want this thing happens they should respect Israel as a state and end the terrorism.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 04:43
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I don't accuse anyone, but it can be true that Palestinians are repeating the same mistake that native Americans did against westerners, so it is possible they lose their whole land.


Again same thing Israel or Westerners are not right, they are just powerful.

Your perspective is like that,

Powerful allien forces come to earth and say "Left the Africa region, we will take all rare elements from there"

Humanity resist, they take South America too

All thing what Humanity should do stay quiet. If they resist, that means Humans are terrorist.

Maybe world won't be a fair place after Greek Chief god Zeus gave up his first lover Themis (Godness of Justice) and choose beautiful lady in Argos(Hera)

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


If they don't want this thing happens they should respect Israel as a state and end the terrorism.


Please don't go back again

What do you think that they will deserve after respect Israel as a state?

They got just more building in the past.

Just a little check why the last peace talks broke down

"Break-down of the talks and post-mortem assessments"

On 2 May 2014, the Hebrew daily Yedioth Ahronoth, cited an anonymous senior American official as placing the blame for the break-down in talks mainly on Israel's settlement stance, directly quoting the remark:'Netanyahu did not move more than an inch.” Israeli sources in Jerusalem later reported that the remarks came from the US Special Envoy Marin Indyk himself, who was reportedly preparing to hand in his resignation.[72] Whoever the source of the comment, the White House cleared the interview in which the remarks were made.[73] In this the officials appeared to be referring to the Israeli government announcement of a record 14,000 new settlement housing units.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_peace_talks





Edited by Ollios - 30-Oct-2014 at 04:45
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 05:44
I see no difference between Hamas and ISIS, it is meaningless that you support one of them and hate another one, both of them use the same tactics to fight against their enemies, it can be even said that in Syria, ISIS is fighting for freedom of almost the whole people (of course in their own imagination) but Hamas just fights for a group of people.

I think the problem is their definition of freedom, I think Syrians can feel more freedom under the rule of the Syrian brutal dictator than ISIS, the same thing can be said about Palestinians and Israel.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 09:16
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I see no difference between Hamas and ISIS


Well but World and even today Sweden are seeing what you don't see or don't want to see

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Palestine_recognition_only.svg

I can't find anything to say after sharing information about which side broke last peace with dishonor.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


I think the problem is their definition of freedom, I think Syrians can feel more freedom under the rule of the Syrian brutal dictator than ISIS, the same thing can be said about Palestinians and Israel.


Maybe it is definition problem of freedom.

for me, as Ceaser said

"I would rather be first in a small village in Gaul than second in command in Rome"



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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 10:53
As I said Palestinians can have an independent state with global recognition, if they respect Israel as a state and end the terrorism. Unlike Mahmoud Abbas, Hamas leaders have never worked on this thing, so we can't see any peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

I say again there is no difference between Hamas and ISIS and except some extremist Muslims, no one support them.
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 11:14
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

As I said Palestinians can have an independent state with global recognition, if they respect Israel as a state and end the terrorism. Unlike Mahmoud Abbas, Hamas leaders have never worked on this thing, so we can't see any peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

I say again there is no difference between Hamas and ISIS and except some extremist Muslims, no one support them.


and I am saying again, I saw what happened when there was peace between Israel-Palestine

ISRAEL BROKE IT by building more house

and I am seeing huge, gigantic difference between ISIS and Hamas

http://i.stack.imgur.com/7w6zi.jpg
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 12:48
Hamas is not equal to Palestine, this is just a Palestinian terrorist group which rules part of Palestine, I also hope to see a free Palestine but without terrorists.

I should correct something that Gandhi said: Arabia belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English, France to the French and of course Israel to the Israelis.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2014 at 22:37

Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Slow day in Turkey yesterday, Ollios?


Actually, yesterday I finished my second week outside the country, so it is hard to say that was it slow or not. If you want to mean anything, be clear
My apologies, Ollios, obviously when searching for this story on the BBC you weren’t actually looking for news. Although, I guess as you’ve already indicated your ignorance, it might still be possible to surmise slowness in the area of news in Turkey itself by what we see before us, which is a story many countries wouldn’t have started their news off with, as these tend to be important national, or major international, events.  

Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Here's a question for you. When you report events over and over and over again, when does the news change from actual news, into something resembling the rehashing of events already discussed? As far as I know it had already been announced that Israel was building in East Jerusalem, and a number of times by the BBC. The BBC, may I add, still considered to be the least biased news organization on the planet by far.



If somebody's do same mistake over and over, that means conversation which done before means nothing.
ISIS have already entered many cities in Iraq and Syria, so is that means we can skip Kobane?
That mistakes are repeated again and again, for whatever reason, may or may not be news worthy, Ollios, depending on what might be considered news worthy at the time they take place.

As far as ISIS is concerned, Ollios, at this present time, their actions seem to be news worthy.


Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Let me ask you this question, Ollios. Were  you checking the BBC site because you generally consider the BBC news to be of high quality, 



*It is old habit from my student times in UK. Firstly, I was using it form checking forecast

*Even you can find simple english news so it is usefull for beginners.

*Third reason is trying to be open-mind, see different perspective. 

Mobile + Laptop + Facebook, so even I can keep up with a wide range of subject matter, whether it be weather, news, or whatever likes I favour at any given times. Plus as someone who doesn’t sit on their laurels, although being in the top two percent for IQ, way above average for EQ, and a leaning towards logic on a high score across the board on my multi intelligence, I still enjoys stretching my minds with the many games found on line.

Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


or were you taken in by the usual conspiracy theorists aiming to stir up trouble between our respective cultures?


Yeah, this is a good example for conspiracy theory. One of the my point in the first post is about reason of current hot discussions in the forum. Everybody has a point, everyone is right from different perspective. Because each one seeing just one part of reality.

 

*Forum members post threads.

*Forum members choose to both read and comment on what they see.

As for everybody having a point, everyone being right from different perspective, and each seeing one part of reality, I’m guessing you weren’t being literal, Ollios.

Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

 
I would consider this to be quite pertinent to the specific issue of building on this land. Had the Arab nations won against Israel, would they have given Israel the land Israel is on back, or even in its entirety?


This is your perspective, here is my.

Let's think Arabs as Native Americans, and Israel as American colonists.

What is wrong, Ollios, incapable of answering the simple questing I put before you? Here it is again.” Had the Arab nations won against Israel, would they have given Israel the land Israel is on back, or even in its entirety?” I look forward to seeing your answer.

Btw, Ollios, surely your analogy is the wrong way around. Wasn’t it the Arabs in the seventh century who invaded the region, displacing the people of Israel? That would make the Arabs American colonists surely, wouldn’t it?

Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

 

However they occupy land of those who went to war with them willingly, and would have likely either left them without the land, or at the very least governed by those who are asking for the land back. 



"willingly", I didn't expect to you. 

You talked like someone who learnt history in church class or madrasas. 
 
I will follow Socrates method. If your theory is true, it should be true for any case. Let's look at this scenario.

After the WW2

Germany(Israel) attacks French(Palestine) 

because after the WW2 lots of Germen lost thier home and became refugees. Great Germany have turned small country. (Holocaust)

and UN(UK) sees the bad position of German refugees and says ok, you can take half of France(nearly all coast)

And French people don't accept this idea and declare war.

USA(other Arabs) helps France but they can't do it and take a beating.

USA has no power to continue war so he makes a peace. He has already a country and Germany is not a risk for him. 

During the war, Germany gained all France but they are generous so they let French people take French highland.

after the 50-60 years, French people are still continuing to war with 
guerrilla tactics and establish their own IRA.

French should be vandal or terrorist. They should not declared war, now Germany took those lands after a war so all lands belongs to him.

By the way each year Germany builts new settlements in French Highland because French people are still continuing war.

I tried to use the theme of WW2 to make it very easy to understand for Americans.

Very interesting, Ollios. Would it be possible for you to explain to us why the method you’re using is called the Socratic methods, and what steps you are taking in its implementation which make it so?

That said, Ollios, your analogy includes the Palestinians in answer to my question. I hope you didn’t mistakenly believe they were who I was talking about. The lands taken belonged to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. I think I’m right in believing that history shows that at the time no Palestinian state ever ruling its own lands. Didn’t the Ottoman Empire hold those same people under the yoke for a considerable length of time, Ollios?

As for “talked like someone who learnt history in church class or madrasas”, I will have to bow to you who has the experience and knowledge of such things, for I have had no education imparted to me in such a way.

Btw, Ollios, why do you believe, you being the open minded person you say you are, that the theme you used would make it very easy for Americans, alone, to understand? Quite frankly, Ollios, by totally disregarding the consequences of WW2 your scenario makes little sense.


Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

 
If you were in Israel's position, Ollios, what would you do for the very best of a bad situation?  


At least, I know what I shouldn't do:more jewish settlements.

Maybe, you can't see but stopping Israel act like that, will be much more effective on organisations like ISIS. 

and if you can't provide justice, there will be always PKK, IRA, ETA or HAMAS to try to provide it and they will be always a hero in someone's eyes.
You said that you wouldn’t, Ollios, but you didn’t explain why you wouldn’t, or why you’ve the belief it would be effective on organisations like ISIS?

 



Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 30-Oct-2014 at 22:38
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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