Ancient Anatolian Peoples

They were Aegean sea colonies, rest of Anatolia hasnt had any Hellenic societies, except Pontus, but only its language was Greek, its inhabitants were mostly Laz or later Romans.

Anatolia was the land of Hatti, as the ancients said. And Hatti was possibly a Caucasian originated people. Later the Hittites united the Hatti and their language was assimilated by the new IE one.

EU? Who is she to dare to change or edit our national systems? The country is ours, we decide what to do within our lands, not Europeans, or not a couple of blinded Iranian nationalists living in 2000 years past.

Before making comments about democracies and human rights, have a look at your own governments. Even our worst extreme nationalists are better than mullah manias.

I didnt say Talish were Turks, but I said Azeris are Turks, and the words given in a previous topic belonged to Azeri dialect of Turkic languages. Assyrians were a nation once, maybe still now, but in very few numbers and very seperated to form a unity or claim rights in northern Iraq. Dont change my words.

And my name is Oguzoglu.

Because that was a millenium ago, in an age where there were no international/humanitarian laws.  The Hellenes of that age had an equal chance to defend themselves and drive the Turks out, but they failed.  Kurds are modern citizens of Jomhuriye Turkiye who must have their cultural rights respected and be treated as equals in a modern so called democracy; not living in fear of being lynched for promoting their ethnicity.

I am telling you, if the governments in Iran, Turkey, Iraq and Syria had just given them autonomy (education/law) within the framework of each country, not even half of the trouble of the last 80 years would have happened.

Didn't the Ottomans have some sort of equal right thing for them? I don't believe there were problems with Kurds in the Ottoman era or even Armenians.

Exile idea wasnt related with nationalism at all. It was the only way to get rid of the inner conflict with minorities, open the eastern warside, clear it and save the eastern citizens' lives, villages and lands.

But I agree with you on the so called nationalism of Young Turks. Their nationalism was just a mask, they served Armenians and Rums more than their own empire's faith.

Really, me too k�roglu, but just on paper...

And Alevilik isnt half Shamanism and half Islam. It is right that it has lots of elements from shamanism, but it also has lots of elements from ancient Anatolian beliefs, even little from Zoroastrianism...

They are just a bunch of stupid, what the Turan will help ottomans.

They firstly tried to unite all ottoman race, but It failed with the balkain war, and than they become Turkish nationalist. Because It is the only way to survive for ottomans.(This is what they think)

But exile of minorities mostly comes with the rebellions and their alliance with western world.

But mainly I can say they are stupid, and have no idea how a country can be ruled.

It is not only armenians who suffered from their stupidness.

60 000-70 000 turkish soldiers died, because of cold. they have no wearing for winter. logistic means nothing for them.

We can saw It at exile also, they couldnt feed or protected armenians. because of it  exile(It is also one of biggest crime) turned a mass killing or as Armenians called genocide.

And If we didnt exiled them, most of them would survive.

I have no knowledge about, armenian rebellion effect at this campaign.

but It just shows, what "logistic" means for talat.

And his stupity.

Oguzoglu

You have no knowledge? Shame, so have a travel around Eastern Anatolia and then come and make comments. After your people suffered that much from those past violence, and all those current issues of Turkey, I am very shocked how ignorant may people be.

I dont look past much for sufference. Past sufference should be stay at past. I dont need to go eastern anatolia for to learn talat stupidness.

So you are trying to tell me, It was Armenians who caused this 90 000 soldier death? I dont think so. I said I dont know, because I have no knowledge about armenian job about this dyings. I didnt read it anywhere, where did you read this?

If I am not wrong, rebellion gained force after this deaths.

Talat just destroyed ottoman empire, for his stupid dream, Turan?(and there are still some follower of it) It was talat, and his nationalist ideas who doomed us. Not armenians.

And BTW, we didnt exile them, Ottomans did,

Builder of Turkey are this ottomans, remember this?

and remember greeks exile. Yes, It was made agreement with greece too. Greeks exiled turks too.

But why Greece presented greek people at anatolia? or why Turkish goverment presented Turkish people at greece? Another ethnic cleansing.

and if they didnt, more Kurds and Turks would be slaughtered than the Armenians.

This is the same idea who beginned exiles. Exiles cannot be justified, There are reason for exiles yes, but They dont justify exile.

Specialy You cannot justify it with some estimation. Innocent armenians should be protected.

Just get some knowledge please.

From where? Halaco�lu?

Tell it to people who have lost their families by that past sufferings before. The thing you call stupideness have ruined hundreds of thousands of lives, and all eastern Anatolia.

Maybe right, but no doubt there was a heavy Armenian effect on the empire's fall.

No they arent. Osmanoglu dynsty was exiled, Enver Pasha was dead. ataturk built modern Turkey and he was independent from Ottoman authority, he ruled the alternative government of Ankara while there was still an Ottoman government ruling the country.

What do you mean?

Yes, exiles can be well justified. The thing is, in the middle of a World war, fighting in more than ten battlesides, an empire who is called the "sick man", who is too weak even to protect its own citizens is backstabbed by one of its subjects in the eastern battlesides, where the Russian armies are very actively invading. What could they do? Did they have any other chance to end that chaos in eastern Anatolia and continue on trying to protect their capital? Nope sir.

The truth is, Kurds suffered more than Turks in the Eastern provinces. Why? Because the regions where Armenians were trying to cleanse ethnically and claim their owning rights with an artificial population dominiance was mostly regions where Muslims (Turks and Kurds) and Armenians were living together in peace before.

And who would protect innocent Kurds and Turks?

Armenian survival,

No, they werent street gangs at all. They were well supplied, professional gangs with Russian support. And you got me wrong, sure Enver Pasha was responsible with the disaster of Sarikamis. But all that happennings in the east were just helping that disaster to happen.

Armenian rebellion gangs have caused much more people to suffer, but mainly not soldiers, civilians. Also Talat Pasha caused lots of Armenian and Turkish civilians to suffer.

What defending? You mean attacking to your own villages, where Turks Kurds and Armenians lived together, right?

Where did you get those numbers from? The thing is, nonMuslims such as Armenians werent responsible with military missions, but all Turkish/Kurdish men were fighting in the battlesides. That is why Armenian plans were such successful.

And 80.000.000 Turks? Ottoman Turkish population was less than 30.000.000 all over the empire after the WWI, and Eastern anatolia had just a couple of millions, of course with a rare number of men after the war.

No, I didnt. Japans bombed American military targets, and as a response, Americans bombed civilian Japanese targets. But Armenians attacked civilian Ottoman towns, and Ottoman government exiled all Armenians, including the very civilian ones and killed most of the gang members, rebellers etc. These arent similar actions.

Everyone recognizes a so-called genocide because of political reasons, Armenian lobbies actions etc. Not because they respect the real issue of what happened in and after the WWI in Anatolia. The countries who are busy with discussing the punishments of a so-called Armenian genocide are the ones who once committed the most horrible actions of humanity, and caused politic purposed violences including the massacres of Turks and Armenians, and all the actions that Ottoman Empire took after the reign of Young Turks.

Please dont just become defensive and begin a new arguement of who's right, and who doesnt respect. We are all humans, and any kind of nationalistic views arent heavier than our human views. Of course we accept Armenian deaths, who denied it? Armenian civilians have also suffered so much from the Ottoman government's orders. But the world denies the Turkish sufferings, and call everything happened there, that we still face its sad consequences as an "Armenian genocide". We dont deny civilian Armenian death, we respect it as much as we respect Turkish and Kurd massacres, we dont accept the claims of Armenian genocide because we also respect what happened to our greatpas and during our worse times, not because we have any symphaty to the mass murderers such as Talat Pasha or Enver Pasha.