Ancient Anatolian Peoples

Originally posted by Oguzoglu We dont deny civilian Armenian death

But your country denies to take responsibility for it. My argument is not with Turkish people's respect, i know a lot of them feel bad for what happened to Armenians, and they respect our deaths as well. But your government, is a totally different story. Theyre the only ones i have a problem with.

Originally posted by Oguzoglu Where did you get those numbers from? The thing is, nonMuslims such as Armenians werent responsible with military missions, but all Turkish/Kurdish men were fighting in the battlesides. That is why Armenian plans were such successful.

Tens of thousands of Armenian men were in the Ottoman army, fighting Ottoman Turks' enemies. So where did we get all these "rebels" out of thin air? I know there were Armenian rebels, but they were very few in number. A lot of them did not even have weapons, the Ottomans disarmed the population before WWI.

Originally posted by Oguzoglu The truth is, Kurds suffered more than Turks in the Eastern provinces. Why? Because the regions where Armenians were trying to cleanse ethnically and claim their owning rights with an artificial population dominiance was mostly regions where Muslims (Turks and Kurds) and Armenians were living together in peace before.

You do know that there is proof of Kurdish bandits murdering Armenian women and children on the "deportation" marches, dont you? And how are there so many Kurdish bandits running around? Ottoman government let them loose to pillage and murder the people on the marches. And the only people on the marches were women, children and the elderly. There were no young men on the death marches, they had either been drafted in the military and murdered, or they were killed in the villages before the march, so they dont become a problem later by trying to fight the soldiers.

A Kurdish political group has Apologized to Armenians, for what they did to them during WWI. They admitted what they did, and apologized for it as a people. You do not need more proof than this. Your claim of Armenians trying to cleanse Kurds and Turks is false, no historian in their right mind would back up that claim, Kurds even apologized to Armenians, so your theory is inaccurate.

Edited by ArmenianSurvival

The genocide commited against the Armenians in WW1 was mainly by the Turkish goverment and by (which was hired, these do not represent the kurdish people) kurdish bandits. It was a aweful thing and it ended with over 1.5 million Armanians killed... Kurds have offically said Apologized to the Armanians. But Turks even today think it was all made up...

Cent do you aware he is wanting Kurdish  land?

Turks, Iranians and Arabs want our land, why not Armenians too?

The only thing he wants is you (turks) too admite the genocide against them in WW1...

 

Originally posted by Alparslan They have participated into the Russian army.

Eastern Armenia was under the Russian Empire, hence Armenians participating in the Russian army.

Id like to read an article of 1 person claiming there were no Turkish deaths. Everyone recognizes your losses, and rightfully so. However Turkey got a huge country after the war, not to mention land that Armenians had been living on for thousands of years, land that the Ottomans deported them out of. And before that, they started moving in Turks en masse to dwindle the Armenian population in Eastern Anatolia. You cannot deny this, virtually every empire does it.

If they didnt have sufficient supplies to deport a population, why did they attempt it on such a large scale? Its not like they suddenly ran out of supplies, they knew how many resources they were using and how many were left. Its not like they woke up one day and everything was gone. Its very irresponsible to leave an entire populations' fate on simple chance.

So basically Turkey recieved lands that the Ottomans deported the Armenians out of, when they knew they didnt have nearly enough supplies to sustain them for the trip. I dont know, can you really blame Armenians for wanting some vindication for that?

Edited by ArmenianSurvival

Originally posted by AyKurt This argument is a bit silly.  Questions of identity is decided by the present people and not by their genetics.  After all nearly every human in this planet is the descendants of people who have migrated into their present lands and intermixed with other inhabitants in the area, the only exceptions are perhaps the Aborigines, the Khoisan and perhaps the Andamanese and some other remote indigenous Asians. Its strange how it always seems to be the Turks who have their indentity undermined.

you are quite right.  the problem arises when that identity is used to validate a political question then... well you get this thread.  the turks today are not genetically 100% turkish (I mean in Turkey).  is it 99% or 2%?  who knows and frankly who cares.  when I was in instanbul and looked at old representations of turks they seem to have mongolian features.  today the turks in turkey do not.  so, undeniably they have mixed.  again, 2% or 99% - who cares.  the problem is that their terretorial integegrity is not secure, there are too many claims to turkish lands and too bloody a history in sustaining it.  so, to your point about why so much traffic about turkey, it's a combination of (a) revisionist internal turkish narrative; (b) external rejection of the revisionist narrative; and (c) overt political overtones.  me, I'm okay with a turk from turkey claiming he is 100% turkish - how would I know different?  but let's not pretend that there is no political agenda behind it for those who state it and those who contest it. your example of the englishmen oversimplifies a complex situation, there is little comparison.  a better comparison would be the palestenian-israeli situation where ethnic ties to a geography was used to validate a land claim. 

Edited by Anonym

Originally posted by Ironheart .....Armenians were rearmed by their russian brethren.

And which year was this?

I think this topic should be either cleaned from the garbage so we can discuss this very interesting issue, or just be closed and move on to a new one. Mods, please?