What if St. Peter's in Rome is not really Ancient?

There is a partial representation of St Peter's within this site concerning obelisks, in the Vatican section.

http://roma.andreapollett.com/S3/roma-co1.htm

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28094

Ron http://roma.andreapollett.com/S3/roma-co1.htm

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28094

It is most strange that when I make some strange post questioning our consensual history, that the site is "taken off line!" This has happened numerous times since I began to post here and indeed it seems to have happened again. Yes! I do believe in conspiracy! It has happened more oft than mere chance could explain.

To me, at least, both of the above sites are now dissolved! LOL

Ron

Edited by opuslola - 13-Jan-2014 at 20:53

"including errors in Alberti's cityscape'"

Sidney, of course these "experts" found errors! The Gothic style cathedral, sitting where another type of cathedral should have stood is, of course, the major one! Smile

Happy New Year every one!!!!!

Regards, Ron

Edited by opuslola - 31-Dec-2013 at 06:10

Well Sidney, it is mostly impossible to say! Certainly it has a classical Roman look, but little more is impossible for me to consider.

Again you find remarkable sites!

Prosit! Ron

I am still awaiting the massive response from Red Clay!

Regards, Ron

Illustration of a map by Matthew Paris, 1250-1259. The extension on the right shows the walled city of Rome with St. Peters in the top right area.



Edited by Sidney - 12-Jan-2014 at 21:24

Originally posted by opuslola All of Roma in 90%! Just what am I to take from above? There seems to be almost no relationship to other sites, and as well I cannot read the pseudo-Latin that lists the sites? What this site says, to me at least, is that Roma/Rome was considered to be just that little part of the map, that concerns St. Peter's and nothing else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just what is your point? Regards, Ron

I think I shouldn't have used the word 'map' for the above image. Sorry for the confusion. It is part of an illustration of the route that pilgrims would have taken from London to Jerusalem. It shows the route in strips, rather than as an accurate map, only concentrating on the places the pilgrims would pass through or near to, including alternative routes, in their order of sequence. This type of route map is called an 'itinerary map'.

The language is French, not Pseudo-Latin. Some of the places you might recognize at the top of the page (from right to left) are the cities of Naples, Salerne, Melphe (Amalfi) and Rise (Reggio). The flap at the top, above these cities, reads 'Lille De Secille' (Isle of Sicily).

My point in posting it is to provide another illustration of how St.Peters basilica was represented, although this might not be how it actually looked, and is not an accurate view of the city layout. Since it dates from the mid 13th Century, its a pretty early image. I thought it belonged with the others I've presented.

The places named within Rome are on the bottom left (in translation) "the gate towards Apulia", and on the bottom right "the gate towards Lombardy". The large central building is labelled "St John Lateran". Top left is "St.Paul", top right is "St.Peter", and middle left is a building I can't identify.

Hope this helps explain.

Edited by Sidney - 13-Jan-2014 at 12:21

Originally posted by red clay If you actually read the history instead of half assing it, you would see that the original was just one of those constructed by Constantine.  By the 1400's it was in a state of disrepair and was torn down.  Work on the present structure began in 1500.  It wasn't finished until the late 1600's.  There are stacks and reams of drawings and accounts. BTW, both structures were built over the tomb of St.Peter.   No Mystery.

"A long time ago, in a place far, far away..." RedClay typed the above words! Well a lot of time has passed and he/she has yet to post all of the hundreds of the "stacks and reams of drawings and accounts!"

LOL! Ron

RedClay you must either reply or concede that I was correct!

And, I withdraw the above challenge! RedClay has no reason to reply.

He owns and runs this site! Hail to the Chief!

Regards

Edited by opuslola - 13-Jan-2014 at 19:50

Originally posted by Sidney Originally posted by Sidney This = Illustration from a 1457 edition of Euclid, described in the Vatican catalogue as a view of Rome, although nothing in the text seems to say this. Have taken liberty to show cropped version; According to this work: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oIAfAgAAQBAJ&dq=Michael+Foresius,&source=gbs_navlinks_s the above is not an eye witness illustration, but was based upon the work of Leon Battista Alberti, who composed a coordination system for creating a map of Rome and projecting 3D images from it. 'The miniaturist in Vat. Lat. 224 [the above illustration] adopted Alberti's system and his characterization of Roman features, including errors in Alberti's cityscape' (p.85) Unfortunately the author does not elaborate on what these errors are, leaving it up to us to imagine how much we can trust this painting as 'accurate'.

Dear Sidney, I just wanted to ask you for the site whereby you questioned if the painting was not by Alberti? Certainly he lived in 1457 CE, and even more certainly he probably supervised the origination of the painting, if I were to guess. Here is just a few words concerning this famous personage from WIKI!

"Alberti was gifted in many directions. He was tall, strong and a fine athlete, who could ride the wildest horse and jump over a man's head.[5] He distinguished himself as a writer while he was still a child at school, and by the age of twenty had written a play which was successfully passed off as a genuine piece of Classical literature.[3] In 1435, he began his first major written work, Della pittura, in which, inspired by the burgeoning of pictorial art in Florence in the early 15th century, he analyses the nature of painting and explores the elements of perspective, composition and colour.[4]"

Thus, he was also capable of representing his written words as would an ancient Roman! Thus he was a "gifted" person much like Poggio and others.

See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gian_Francesco_Poggio_Bracciolini

A master fo "Classical Literature" who only died a couple of years after the reported date of the illustration mentioned and shown above.
Regards, Ron

Edited by opuslola - 13-Jan-2014 at 20:26

Originally posted by Sidney Originally posted by Sidney This = Illustration from a 1457 edition of Euclid, described in the Vatican catalogue as a view of Rome, although nothing in the text seems to say this. Have taken liberty to show cropped version; According to this work: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oIAfAgAAQBAJ&dq=Michael+Foresius,&source=gbs_navlinks_s the above is not an eye witness illustration, but was based upon the work of Leon Battista Alberti, who composed a coordination system for creating a map of Rome and projecting 3D images from it. 'The miniaturist in Vat. Lat. 224 [the above illustration] adopted Alberti's system and his characterization of Roman features, including errors in Alberti's cityscape' (p.85) Unfortunately the author does not elaborate on what these errors are, leaving it up to us to imagine how much we can trust this painting as 'accurate'.

And Sidney, according to your hyper-link, this representation might well be by this great brain?

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oIAfAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA255&dq=Michael+Foresius,&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q=Michael%20Foresius%2C&f=false

And he seems to be a very close cousin of Alberti! But, of course I could be wrong?

See this;

"


Pieros Formation in Sansepolcro
1


In Search of Piero the Persistent Traveler 143950
17


Piero at the Court of Sigismondo Malatesta in Rimini
29


Piero in Arezzo The Legend of the True Cross
44


Creating the Sacred Piero della Francescas Altarpiece for the Confraternity of the Madonna della Misericordia
64


Greek Geometry in Rome and Pieros Trattato dabaco
79


Pieros Return to Patria and Family
96


An Arezzo Interlude
114





Piero in Sansepolcro 147275
152


Piero in Urbino 147577
163


The Persuasiveness of Paternal Authority 147781
181


Piero in the Last Decade of His Life
198


Conclusion
215


NOTES
220


Selected Bibliography
240

Index of Life Paintings and Treatises Life
255

The Practice of Perspective The SantAntonio and SantAgostino Altarpieces and The Flagellation of Christ
120
Piero in Urbino in the Early 1470s
142
General Index
265


Copyright"

Could you also post his other representations?

Just give the correct attributions and all should be OK!


Regards, Ron

Edited by opuslola - 13-Jan-2014 at 20:45

Originally posted by opuslola A blow up of this small representation might well present me with more information? Ron

I'll look for a bigger one.