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Chieftain
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sun and Lion
    Posted: 13-Nov-2013 at 14:29
What does "Sun and Lion" symbol mean?

I didn't know that ıt is using also Turks

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Kaykhusraw_II_dirham.jpg
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2013 at 14:36
Which period represents this coin?
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2013 at 15:31
Symbolically speaking the sun has often been represented by the lion.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2013 at 15:49
Originally posted by medenaywe

Which period represents this coin?


the period of Kaykhusraw II, 1240-1241 AD.
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2013 at 16:00
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Symbolically speaking the sun has often been represented by the lion.


So they mean same thing, don't they?

Yes you are right, in Astrology sun means Lion
 

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Posts: 64 		  Quote Qaradag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2013 at 00:17
Sun and Lion is actually Turkic. It was Turkic Safavids who made it Iran's symbol (used also by Turkic Afshars and Qajars), yet there is a propaganda by Persians that it is supposedly a "Persian symbol".


Edited by Qaradag - 14-Nov-2013 at 00:18
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2013 at 00:29
Originally posted by Qaradag

Sun and Lion is actually Turkic. It was Turkic Safavids who made it Iran's symbol (used also by Turkic Afshars and Qajars), yet there is a propaganda by Persians that it is supposedly a "Persian symbol".
The ancient Mesopotamians also used the symbol, Qaradag.

Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 14-Nov-2013 at 00:30
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2013 at 13:26
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Originally posted by Qaradag

Sun and Lion is actually Turkic. It was Turkic Safavids who made it Iran's symbol (used also by Turkic Afshars and Qajars), yet there is a propaganda by Persians that it is supposedly a "Persian symbol".
The ancient Mesopotamians also used the symbol, Qaradag.


I agree Alani, it seems Lion and Sun relationship every old and common

Egyptian War goddess, Sekhmet(Female Lion) and Sun on her head


http://www.seedsofdoubt.com/distressedamerican/images/graphics/sekhmet.jpg

A sun god in Anatolia, Sandas is standing on a lion which has horns


but Turks have been effected on Iran about his symbol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_and_Sun
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Posts: 399 		  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2013 at 18:34
with all respect to every buddy i agree with qaradag . the lion or sun symbol can be seen in every culture but we don't talking about lion or sun we are talking about lion and sun rising and as far as i can see only turks use it b4 (except pahalivi which they took their flag from qajar that flag become national flag today) your saying we took it from iranian ok can you tell from which dynasty as far as i know persian flag was farvahar or simorgh or darfash e kavyani
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2013 at 14:32
Originally posted by yomud

with all respect to every buddy i agree with qaradag . the lion or sun symbol can be seen in every culture but we don't talking about lion or sun we are talking about lion and sun rising and as far as i can see only turks use it b4 (except pahalivi which they took their flag from qajar that flag become national flag today) your saying we took it from iranian ok can you tell from which dynasty as far as i know persian flag was farvahar or simorgh or darfash e kavyani


With my all respect to you, it is hard to believe. My photoes are not about lion or sun, they are about sun and lion. However I believe that that type of lion and sun symbol can be Turkic

http://iranpoliticsclub.net/flags/lion-sun2/index.htm
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2013 at 22:01
Actually the whole sun and lion motif, I believe, comes from an astrological origin, predating any symbolic nationalistic usage.

Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 15-Nov-2013 at 22:02
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2013 at 10:50
Originally posted by Qaradag

Sun and Lion is actually Turkic. It was Turkic Safavids who made it Iran's symbol (used also by Turkic Afshars and Qajars), yet there is a propaganda by Persians that it is supposedly a "Persian symbol".


What is your opinion about the ancient Achaemenid seals?
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Posts: 399 		  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2013 at 18:07
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by Qaradag

Sun and Lion is actually Turkic. It was Turkic Safavids who made it Iran's symbol (used also by Turkic Afshars and Qajars), yet there is a propaganda by Persians that it is supposedly a "Persian symbol".


What is your opinion about the ancient Achaemenid seals?


this is some thing new to me where is it belongs ?? takhte jamshid ?
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2013 at 01:16
Sixteen ray sun-like symbol was Alexander's family heraldic sign.Lion is part of Maternal body,it protects Mother.Was it a Sun Cyrus?What does archeology says about it?


Edited by medenaywe - 21-Nov-2013 at 01:18
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2013 at 02:36
Look at ray-like structure on Artemides chests:(i suppose those are 2 octopuses,but...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/amthomson/4012525402/in/photostream/
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2013 at 14:27
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri





BTW"The seal was discovered along the northeastern shore of the Black Sea (Consult Collon, 1987, no. 432) in the region of the ancient Pontus.  The seal is in the British museum and not the Hermitage Museum of St. Petersburg as is often assumed."

Is it the oldest figure in the history of Iran?  and who is the guy on the lion?

Isthar:http://www.matrifocus.com/SAM08/spotlight.htm
Mithra:http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/iranica/achaemenid-era/eastern-anatolia-heir-to-a-irano-greek-legacy/

BTW"The seal was discovered along the northeastern shore of the Black Sea (Consult Collon, 1987, no. 432) in the region of the ancient Pontus.  The seal is in the British museum and not the Hermitage Museum of St. Petersburg as is often assumed."

which means TurkeyWink

Originally posted by medenaywe

Sixteen ray sun-like symbol was Alexander's family heraldic sign.Lion is part of Maternal body,it protects Mother.Was it a Sun Cyrus?What does archeology says about it?


It is also symbol of Turkish Presidency, but maybe ours is a star??? There is no national symbol in Turkey so just this one is common and well accepted.http://indigodergisi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/cumhurba%C5%9Fkanl%C4%B1%C4%9F%C4%B1-fors.jpg

Is this Safevids' flag record right?

first
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj56/Sina-Tehranchi/8-%20Flags-Symboles%20From%20Persia/SafavidShahTahmasb1524-1576.jpg

later
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ericflint/images/a/a9/Safavid_Flag.svg.png

maybe we should call them as Golden sheep Turkomans like Black sheep Turkomans and White sheep Turkomans







Edited by Ollios - 21-Nov-2013 at 14:30
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2013 at 03:21
Originally posted by Ollios


BTW"The seal was discovered along the northeastern shore of the Black Sea (Consult Collon, 1987, no. 432) in the region of the ancient Pontus.  The seal is in the British museum and not the Hermitage Museum of St. Petersburg as is often assumed."

which means TurkeyWink

I really don't understand what it means, it first says the northeastern shore of the Black Sea, namely the Caucasus, but then mentions the ancient Pontus which was located at the southern coast of the Black Sea, anyway both of them belonged to the ancient Achaemenid empire, so that is an Achaemenid seal.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 22-Nov-2013 at 03:24
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2013 at 13:20
It is Achaemenid seal for sure.Do Achaemenid's ancestors still rule Turkey Cyrus?Smile
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2013 at 07:31
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by Ollios


BTW"The seal was discovered along the northeastern shore of the Black Sea (Consult Collon, 1987, no. 432) in the region of the ancient Pontus.  The seal is in the British museum and not the Hermitage Museum of St. Petersburg as is often assumed."

which means TurkeyWink

I really don't understand what it means, it first says the northeastern shore of the Black Sea, namely the Caucasus, but then mentions the ancient Pontus which was located at the southern coast of the Black Sea, anyway both of them belonged to the ancient Achaemenid empire, so that is an Achaemenid seal.


Yes you are right it is not clear, normal Pontus is in Turkish coast of East Blacksea but word north sounds like here
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2012/7/9/1341825473384/Russia-flood-map-001.png
and it mentioned about museum of St. Petersburg. This is also exciting, I haven't thought that they effected in North Caucausiahttp://www.uncp.edu/home/rwb/persian_empire_map.gif

The issue is that is this seal is Archaemanid own product or is there any old figures like that in near cultures?




Edited by Ollios - 24-Nov-2013 at 07:34
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Posts: 399 		  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2013 at 13:26
im sry guys but i miss this part !

http://www.matrifocus.com/SAM08/spotlight.htm

from what this web telling us the is the seal of ashter the goddess of war on the lion (lion is her animal) as the next pic on that web shows all the people are staying on their animal  so this is just ashtar with halo of light and her animal ! it dont get it . what is the connection between this seal and lion and sun rising from what i know persians always took sun as male and moon as female but as far as i know our god of moon is male and our god of sun is female !! and as you can see in every pic and flag from lion and sun rising the sun is female ! and thats make me think the symbol is Turkic ! even timurlane use this symbol and seljuks in the era of ghznavids the flag was golden sun in field of black / golden lion in field of black 

Edited by yomud - 24-Nov-2013 at 13:41
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