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''Queer'' Rumors and Suspicions

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  Quote Zapro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ''Queer'' Rumors and Suspicions
    Posted: 31-Jul-2013 at 11:55
Hello, few days ago i searched some info about some of my favorite and most interesting historical characters,and came across few new ones that lighten my attension, i was amazed to hear all of the little rumors and stories that they had, but by far the most strangest thing was that people were interested about the sexsual orientation of these people, many of the little rumors and myths of these people were little un-convincing but hey im not an expert so could you help me out here? If you know if these dudes were gay, il but an lil list of people that were rumored to be queers, if you know an answer to my question, pls say it

1.Shogun Minamoto Yorimoto, suposedly had a few gay sex partners
2.Daimyo Oda Nobunaga, rumored to have a sex affair with a close male friend/close one
3.Sultan Mehmed II, Rumored to have raped last emperor of constantinoble and had a relationship with Radu II
4.Sultan Suleiman I, only had a one wife, id say for a turk its lil dumb only to have one wife
5.King Gustav III, he said ''I dont love my wife'' and he did not have that much of a interestment in women
6.Lord Zhang He, never had any wives or children, and in the game series ''Dynasty Warriors'' he is portrayted as an very feminent man who says the word ''Beauty'' and other little less manly things, almost all of the male characters in the ''Dynasty Warriors'' series are very strong and manly men, but not Zhang he, he is very tall, skinny, very long hair, soft feminent skin, fruity voice, woman-like face and appereance, dances all the damn time and wears armor that is not very man-like.
7.Marshal President Gustaf Emil Mannerheim, married his first wife for the purpose of money, was said to have an male foreign friend in a foreign land
8.King Shaka Zulu, never married to a woman and never had children, even thou gayness was not condemmed in the Zulu tribe
9.King Frederik II, had a wife that did not live in his manor/estate, did not seem to like women like his wife, he did not pay attention to her or care about her
10.King Ivar, the Viking King who never truely liked anybody and was nick named ''The Boneless'' he did not rape or have any irresistible feelings or urges to women,

And for a little extra question that i have that is similar and regarding sexsuality, i heard of this Chinese Crossdressing Spy named Shi Pei-Pu who dressed as a woman to Spy around, and had a husband and she claimed that she is an woman, did he crossdress in public when he was not in duty? Something tells me that a Crossdressing Asian spy with an feminent face would be a good character for an romantic novel, i'd like for some reason.... 

But anyway if you know if any of these people were actually gay, i would like to know.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2013 at 09:20
In answer to your question, who knows?  Sexual orientation wasn't that much of a big deal in earlier times. 
 
My question to you is, why does it matter?  Would it answer any historical questions?  I don't think folks paid that much attention to what went on in other peoples bedroom.
Also, who wrote the "rumors"?   There are always those with an axe to grind, after someone powerful dies, it's much easier to gossip or defame them.    A good example might be Richard 3rd.  Research is starting to show that he wasn't quite what has been written.
 
 


Edited by red clay - 02-Aug-2013 at 09:22
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2013 at 20:02
was they any good at what they did and how objectively was it reported. moralization after the fact remains bullshit.

If I wear make up, heels and cross dress...don't make a shit...I can still scout and defend on the llano better then anybody here on this forum.

bet yer ass.


Amen.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Sidney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2013 at 18:39
If you or your sources define 'gay' as not raping women, not loving your wife or not having children, then its a pretty peculiar definition.

Your list covers a wide range of cultures and time periods. Sexual definitions are pretty fluid across these parameters, and trying to define who in your list is or isn't 'gay' (itself a modern term with modern connotations that would have no meaning to the people in that list) seems to be based on a 21st Century perception, not that of the times in which these people lived.

But even if you are aware that 'gay' is an inadequate term to use, but want to use it anyway, you need to first define what you actually mean by 'gay' (see my first sentence, above).   



you

Edited by Sidney - 06-Aug-2013 at 18:46
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  Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2013 at 10:38
FWIW both UK and USA have had gay presidents/Prime ministers.
Did not seem "harm" their country as a result.

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis


If I wear make up, heels and cross dress...don't make a shit...I can still scout and defend on the llano better then anybody here on this forum.

bet yer ass.


Amen.

Hmm whilst i don't have a donkey to bet with, I might be tempted to take that bet......

Regards

Tony
I really do have a cunning plan.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2013 at 11:58
Originally posted by Baldrick

FWIW both UK and USA have had gay presidents/Prime ministers.
Did not seem "harm" their country as a result.

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

If I wear make up, heels and cross dress...don't make a shit...I can still scout and defend on the llano better then anybody here on this forum.

bet yer ass.


Amen.

Hmm whilst i don't have a donkey to bet with, I might be tempted to take that bet......
Regards
Tony



Fair enough. Tell ya what I'd do fer ya. Meet me at the headwaters of Coldwater creek (give ya a hint, tis at a greater distance, slightly 'ne' of Flater lake)

Dress in heels and lipstick etc....carry three days hard rations and two quarts of water. We both start 'nw' heading out across the Comanche NG. Who ever gets to Springfield first gets a free dinner at the Longhorn Steak house.

Noooooo cheating and no asking for rides from the locals or others, gay or not.


Tis refreshing to see Brits with a sense of adventure and bold daring as if the ancient days of high adventure were still remembered...cuz frankly I'd come to believe most euros like most amerikans have become disaffected, flabby ass, wannabe panty wastes, living on the dole.

You have reknewed my faith.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2013 at 16:19
Oh please!  The mental image of you both trapseing aqcross the Llano in drag is more than my mind was ready for.  Having lived in Center City Phila during the 60's I saw enough of that to last a lifetime.
 
Don't forget the matching handbags.Big smile
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2013 at 18:18
If the Llano is a place's name, why the article "The" before it?
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2013 at 10:44
You'd have to ask CV that one.  But the Llano is a region, an area. 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2013 at 12:58
For the same reason it's used in front of any other noun.

'the' being a definitive article is used rather then 'a' or 'an' to specify or paticularize an importance before the noun. where the latter is used to generalize.


eg. I will go to the Llano and meet Baldrick there.

In the more local vernacular it would be:

Going Llanoing and sure as hell hope Baldrick don't get lost out in the dunes.
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2013 at 18:06
So what does Llano mean?
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2013 at 19:41
Spanish masculine noun for 'plain' or great plains in this context.... iow. the geographic meaning. As an adjective, it can be translated as smooth or flat. Estacado is roughly translated as palisaded...hence palisaded plains or a mesa with a flat rolling top; with cliffs (escarpments) on various sides, leading down to lower ground below.

It however can also be translated as the past participle of 'estacar' which roughly means to place stakes in the ground for various purposes.

To include as a means of marking a trail or measuring one in surveying.


Historically explorers across the mesa did this initially to keep a sense of direction and identify water holes which are few and far between.


http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/ryl02


If ya google it you will find a picture.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 08-Aug-2013 at 19:45
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  Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2013 at 09:03
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis


Fair enough. Tell ya what I'd do fer ya. Meet me at the headwaters of Coldwater creek
.


Can i swap this for the Brecon beacons???

Seriously, reading your many posts on this forum, i think you are a retired US marine, possibly having even served in Vietnam.

Apologises if instead of a marine you were in fact a "proper" soldier.......
(glossing over the fact that the the USMC is larger and more mission capable than the entire UK army) WinkOuch

The American tradition of outdoorsman, hunting shooting and fishing is well known and well justified.
As is Britains ever growing soft, nanny state condition.

But when you think back to your service, apart from the blokes, do you REALLY miss all the time in the field, Honestly...?  Can i say that for me, i do not.  There is an old American expression, "im too old for this shit"

Regards

Tony




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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2013 at 09:53

Maybe it is just a stereotype but CV sounds exactly like the stereotype presented by Hollywood, that fits the following description:

Religious, military, conservative, patriotic, rural and above all... Southern! Wink
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2013 at 14:37
An answer and a point.

Reference how much I miss it? I miss it all to include field time and deployments down range and into harms way.


Second: Tejas is often confused with being 'southern' via their inclusion in the ACW. Tejas has never been southern or at best a faux southern in the SE and eastern wood country sections in a minor sense as a result of the production of cotton and association with the plantation system of production.

It is physically the southern most extension of the central great plains region of the US; with a variety of eco and geo conditions and climates that separate it from the gulf coast south for example.. and has always had a more demonstrative 'western' character and still does.

If anything it represented at formation.... far more Spanish-Mexicans and Indians culture then than any other and that was decidedly not southern. Its original 'old three hundred' came from many places to include Conneticut and Ohio and the border states of Missouri and Kentucky; all of which were associated with expansionism of the American continent and at one point or another were id' as western. This even included SF Austin's home in SW Virginia.

Southern I am not.

A multi national mestizo from the Llano I am.
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2013 at 07:40
Multi-national mestizo?     I was wrong then. I thought you were a pure American... It sounds a bit oxymoron to be a multi-national patriot. A patriot protects one nation, not many. Or not?
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2013 at 09:36
I believe CV was ref. to ethnicity.  I can't think of anyone who personifies "pure American" more than CV.  Unless that person would be me.
 
Don't call either of us out on it, the results wouldn't be pretty.Wink
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2013 at 16:38
Originally posted by red clay

I believe CV was ref. to ethnicity.  I can't think of anyone who personifies "pure American" more than CV.  Unless that person would be me.
 
Don't call either of us out on it, the results wouldn't be pretty.Wink
 
 


I am not calling you out or anything, it's just the words CV used that puzzled me. If he really meant ethnicity instead of nationality, then his statement makes sense to me. Otherwise you 've got to be a.... multi-patriot. Smile
αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν
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Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others.
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