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TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Not Turkish Spring
    Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 13:55
Although not getting money doesn't preclude an intention for it, Mosquito, involvement doesn't automatically signify an intention for it either. As I have already said, self interest tends to be the overwhelming factor, be it political or economic. For instance, the Germans. They have strong ties with the French. The French were well publicized as doing massive deals with Saddam Hussein for the rights to Iraqi oil, putting France in a very very strong position on the world stage. The deal was the reason the French tried to stop the Iraq war, and with their close alliance with the Germans they have been notorious over a number of years for political bullying. As for Who makes decisions over Iraqi contracts, who do yo think should be making the decisions, Iraqis, or those outside of Iraq? As for American politicians, who knows? Have there been many caught in any illegal acts involved in any contracts? If the Iraqis are making decisions on contracts, are we not talking about subcontracts in regards to how American firms are operating?    
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 16:38
@Centrix Vigilis

*I took your speech about reduced version as clear humiliation. Angry We are living near the Iran, Iraq and Russia, so our version should be more new then yours.Wink 

*I agree about fundamentalist also other atheist or religious radical groups, but I don't think that Ataturk will be in line of American supporters.

Originally posted by red clay

 
Ollios, they don't quite see things the way you do.

so do they have to think like me? of course not and could you be more clear, which way is mine?Big smileHowever how can you hope nuetral view from them(Turko-Americans) about America? or How can you make a generalization about Turks just looking them?

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We are not planing to be new Belarus but also we don't see Russia as evil as you see. Eurasia Union is not a bad idea. I know that Russia has long way about freedom. By the way, I also know that allowing hate speech or racist parties can't call as a freedom. In possible future union Turkey won't be an  obedient member. During to this relationship Russia will have to think also Turkey as China. But still Turks turst USA more then Russia.  
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Posts: 399 		  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2013 at 12:22
turkey is in the revolution  main fight between ataturk's people and islamic akp  more day have past more situation get worse why army is just watching ???? i though they have direct order from ataturk to protect secular regime of turkey dose turkey is going for civil war ???


Edited by yomud - 08-Jun-2013 at 12:23
yomud are free people
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2013 at 03:57
Originally posted by yomud

turkey is in the revolution  main fight between ataturk's people and islamic akp  more day have past more situation get worse why army is just watching ???? i though they have direct order from ataturk to protect secular regime of turkey dose turkey is going for civil war ???

This is not a true way. What will you do against AKP supporters? They are also on streets

İstanbul

 
Ankara
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2013 at 10:28
There has been mention made of Weapons of Mass Destruction that didn't exist in Iraq in 2003.  That is an anomaly, that, to my satisfaction has never been clearly explained, by anyone.
 
Our son was in the original invasion force.  The threat of Chemical weapons was, treated as very real, by the guys in the field.  When the advance group he was with, found a large supply of new Chinese made, Chemical warfare suits and 20,000 epi injectors, "The pucker factor went up by 10".  As they continued on, it became clear to our troops that the Iraqi's themselves [or at least the front line units] thought they had Chemical weapons and also thought they would be used.
You don't buy 200,000 NBC suits complete with breathing apparatus, just to scare hell out of your enemy. 
One of our son's officers was the first to express the idea that even the Iraqi General staff thought these weapons existed and would be used.  Supply and deployment supported this idea.
 
So the question is asked, who was zooming who?  Were the weapons real?  Or just an elaborate hoax by Sadam,  that blew up in his face when GWB used it as an excuse to invade?  It's never been clear.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2013 at 12:36
If ya believe Wolfowitz and, I had a tendency to do so...then here's the scoop.

"The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason, but, there have always been three fundamental concerns. One is weapons of mass destruction, the second is support for terrorism, the third is the criminal treatment of the Iraqi people. Actually I guess you could say there's a fourth overriding one which is the connection between the first two."

Source: 'Vanity Fair Magazine', 9 May 03. Paul Wolfowitz to Sam Tannenhaus


Iow. The intell was to weak for the first and they ntl, went ahead based on even worse estimates, later to be admitted as false, still thought to be reliable.... but they should have used reasons 2-3 and possibly 4.

Smells like Dick Cheney pressuring to me.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 10-Jun-2013 at 12:37
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2013 at 11:29
That still doesn't explain any of what I posted.  Also, other units found empty ammo bunkers that tested positive for Chem. weapons.  What you posted is interesting from the coalition side, but doesn't explain what was going on in Iraq.
 
All of the evidence points to there having been WMD's, so another question, where did they go?  Or was this an "internal hoax" meant to build confidence in Sadam's army and give the troops the idea they could actually win.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2013 at 12:25
I concur with the preponderance of the presence of special weapons prior and during Desert S/S. No arguments there.

What happened after..... and prior to GWB's adventure in the desert remains yet debatable. For some 'light reading'.

''In retrospect, therefore, it seems reasonable to conclude that one of the most significant reasons that U.S. and British troops have not found nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons or proscribed missiles in Iraq is that, following the 1991 Gulf War, the bulk of these weapons and associated facilities were destroyed either by the United Nations or unilaterally by Iraq.''


See: http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_09/Cleminson_09


The key phrase in the above is .....''the bulk''. Define that and then explain what remained, what was not located and, where it went.


Here is one version of a potential answer.

http://www.wnd.com/2004/04/24352/
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2013 at 13:44
@Ollios.

Keep your head down. I don't particularly care whose side your own at home...but whether ya believe it or not, I like you. And would see ya have no harm.

CV
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2013 at 07:27
Yesterday

Sounds of Gezi Park








Edited by Ollios - 12-Jun-2013 at 07:47
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2013 at 11:42

Italian deputies wear red to support Gezi Park protesters



It is because of, the lady in red is also another symbol  for resistence
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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2013 at 11:56
Excellent work on informing us of the situation.

Contact http://www.foxnews.com/ and get on the payroll as a contributing reporter.

And....


Keep your head down.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 480 		  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 07:30
So, Mr. Ergogan wants to ban public kissing, consumption of alcohol during certain hours and other liberties that modern humans should have?
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 16:08
Originally posted by TITAN_

So, Mr. Ergogan wants to ban public kissing, consumption of alcohol during certain hours and other liberties that modern humans should have?

public kissing: There is no written public kissing ban, I mean not yet. The frightening thing is different. After a single kissing case, an announcement came after in subway. Then a group of people went to same place to protest it. However there were another group too. They were scary. 


Note: One protestor was injured by guys in second group.

Consumption of alcohol: Do you know how it makes to take an alcohol license? or do you know erdogan's personal ideas about alcohol? 

According to his idea, if you drink alcohol, that's mean you are an alcoholic. This is from his speech and  we should go drink it at home (from his speech) maybe he means as in Iran

There is two main step in this protest
a:Police overreaction
b:Erdogan authority

Erdoğan authority is unquestionable
He didn't like a huge statue in Kars, it was destoried by local mayor
He doesn't approve abortion, new firm abortion law prepared
.
.
.
Even one member of parliament said that I thought touching Erdogan was prayer.

also similar enviroment and cultural protests happened as this

*"Hundreds of protestors in Istanbul and across Europe rallied on Wednesday night to protest the municipality project to transform Istanbul's century-old train station into a hotel."

Historical Train Station = Hotel
Gezi Park                      = Ottoman Barrack for using a mall or hotel. Now they changed their idea. New project is a city museum with a few(?) shops

Now, we are waiting for a new police wave. Erdogan said that this would end in 24 hours.





Edited by Ollios - 13-Jun-2013 at 16:09
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2013 at 01:24
Yesterday Gezi Park (my pictures)




they have developed commun life. There are free tea, food in there. Medical students are there

This weekend also meeting of AKP. Erdoğan said, it was election meeting, but who believes him
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 05:13
Platform of Taksim had decided to contiune resistence after Erdoğan meeting with people in platfrom but, they had decided to reduce tent number and tried to get one tent, also move the blocking as damage cars in own previous posts. However saturday night massive police attack came like what they did on 31 May (the reason of why small enviroment protest became this size). Platform decided to contiune beacuse, Erdoğan didn't gave any promise. He just listened them and said  that we were waiting for court decision and we would go to referendum. 


On 15 June(the day after, erdoğan met with protestors), Erdoğan had a miting in Ankara. In his speech, he still contiuned his way. Then protestor decided to stay and police attack came that night.   

15th June
(Turkish)

1th June                                                                             16th June
 






Edited by Ollios - 17-Jun-2013 at 05:24
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 05:32
Also on 16th June, there was a Erdoğan miting in İstanbul. I just remember one sentences from that day. 
An AKP woman supporter said that I am a hair in Erdoğan's ass (it's not a joke)  - maybe on whatever LOL

(Turkish)




Edited by Ollios - 17-Jun-2013 at 16:41
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 05:52

Atatürk´s Address to the Youth

Oh Turkish Youth!

Your first duty is to preserve and defend forever Turkish independence and the Turkish Republic.

This is the only foundation of your existence and of your future. This foundation is your most precious treasure.

In the future, too, there will be malevolent people at home and abroad who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. If one day you have to defend your independence and your Republic, you will not tarry to weigh the circumstances before taking up your duty. These possibilities and circumstances may be extremely unfavorable. The enemies nursing designs against your independence and your republic, may have behind them a victory unprecedented in the annals of the world. It may come to pass that, by violence and ruse, all the fortresses of your beloved fatherland will be occupied, all its shipyards captured, all its armies dispersed, and every part of the country invaded. And what is sadder and graver than all these circumstances is that the people in power inside the country may be blind, misguided. They may even be traitors. The men in power may join their personal interest to the political designs of the invaders. The country may be impoverished, ruined and exhausted.

Oh, Child of Turkey's future, even in these circumstances it is your duty to save Turkey's independence and the Turkish Republic.

You will find the power you need in the noble blood in your veins.
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 07:18
It's easy to be a pain in the ass or on it.

It's what the other guy does to remove it that matters.

Keep yer head down.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 17-Jun-2013 at 07:18
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 16:40
After nearly 18 days, now Erdoğan is planting new trees, but he still didn't give up his arrogant character. Still he didn't cancel to built a new barrack, hotel, musuem.... 

It seems that Turkey divide much as secular and religious but Erdoğan gained this battle. There is huge police blocking now. Even gendarmes came to help. Goverment said that if we needed, we could send soilders.
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