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ConradWeiser
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Topic: The Russian Far East: Sources? Posted: 15-Apr-2013 at 18:25 |
I am in need of some aid. So recently I realized that I know little to nothing of this region's history and culture, and I'd like to know more. Right now, I'm especially interested in prehistoric and historic studies and narratives of the region, along with cultural studies. To define the area I'm talking about, I suppose Wikipedia's demarcation of the Russian Far East is good enough, although to get really specific I'd like to learn about the cultures surrounding the sea of Okhotsk, and to some extent the northernmost part of the Sea of Japan and the western Bering Sea as well. By extension, I'm also fairly interested in the northern-most Japanese islands, such as Hokkaido, as well as the parts of this region that lie within China, namely Manchuria. As for subject matter, I'm willing to accept anything, but I'm especially interested in the cultural exchanges in this part of the world. What are the indigenous cultures like? Do China and Japan have records of historic contact with these people? What kind of cultural exchanges occurred between the indigenous peoples and the Russians who conquered and settled the region in early modern times? What kind of pre-modern and early-modern trade filtered through this region? I'll try and keep updating this thread to share with you any materials I may find regarding the history of this area of the world. And I hope you'll share anything you think might be helpful to me. Thanks!
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Another year! Another deadly blow!
Another mighty empire overthrown!
And we are left, or shall be left, alone.
-William Wordsworth
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 15-Apr-2013 at 19:17 |
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Rxl2NFAEAHoJ:www.iser.uaa.alaska.edu/iser/people/knapp/Knapp_RFE_intro_1_slide_per_page.pdf+history+of+russian+far+east+region&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
''Russia's Far East'': Judith Thornton
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Nick1986
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Posted: 21-Apr-2013 at 21:32 |
The people living there are probably Mongoloid in appearance, given the region's proximity to Mongolia, China and the Eskimos in Alaska
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Ollios
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Posted: 22-Apr-2013 at 07:19 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
The people living there are probably Mongoloid in appearance, given the region's proximity to Mongolia, China and the Eskimos in Alaska
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I won't be sure as you. How many USA citizens looks like a Native American? Far east was heavily colonized by Russians
Russians in Russia
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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
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baydlag
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Posted: 22-May-2013 at 02:49 |
Native people of northern coast of sea of Okhotsk are mostly Lamut and Evenks. They are closely related to Manchu.
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Snafu
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Posted: 27-May-2013 at 18:51 |
You can research Tungus people in general, since that's pretty much their traditional domain.
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Hukumari
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Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 14:26 |
Originally posted by baydlag
Native people of northern coast of sea of Okhotsk are mostly Lamut and Evenks. They are closely related to Manchu.
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Closely related but how (genetically)? Your Evenk is slightly different than Ewenki (Evenk) in China What do you say, if I comment with autosomal STR (12 loci/85 tribes) as follows: - Evenk is genetically closest to Seoul/Korea and Jilin (Han), - next after one more step is Zhejiang? Maybe I am highly interested because my roots before Tofalar and Altai are in Yakut, Even and Yukaghir.
Edited by Hukumari - 05-Jun-2013 at 14:42
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baydlag
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Posted: 09-Jun-2013 at 22:41 |
Northern Evenks are called Tunguses and living eastern Siberia. Southern ones living between lake Baikal and great and lesser Khingan Mountains. Evenks in China are called Solon and Khamnigans. Solons were warlike people in Manchu Qing empire. So spreaded many places in all over China. For example some Solons still in Ili valley in Xingjiang. I think there is no wonder to find Evenkish element in Chinese people in Jilin.
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Hukumari
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Posted: 10-Jun-2013 at 10:17 |
Originally posted by baydlag
Northern Evenks are called Tunguses and living eastern Siberia. Southern ones living between lake Baikal and great and lesser Khingan Mountains. Evenks in China are called Solon and Khamnigans. Solons were warlike people in Manchu Qing empire. So spreaded many places in all over China. For example some Solons still in Ili valley in Xingjiang. I think there is no wonder to find Evenkish element in Chinese people in Jilin.
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Thanks a lot. It seems that you know more than me about the reality. Congratulations to you my friend! I was surprised to see Kahminigan by autosomal STR in Ecuador and Mexico. I am not writing bullshit. With my another computer I have more info. Saludo Seppo
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Hukumari
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Posted: 10-Jun-2013 at 11:56 |
I as100 % pure Finn (Finnish) from eastern tribes like Carelia and Savo, I am not surprised about my autosomal DNA : My real results are:
8
LOCI = D3S1358, vWA, FGA, D8S1179, D21S11, D18S51, D5S818, D7S820: 34.3
% - Tofalar
33.5
% - Altai
32.6
% - Kichwa (Ecuador)
31.01
% - Puebla (Meksiko)
30.7
% - Puna (Luoteis-Argentiina)
29.97
% - Salta (Luoteis-Argentiina)
29.44
% - La Paz (Aymara), Bolivian pääkaupunki
28.9
% - Lima, Peru
27.61
% - Tuva
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Cryptic
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Posted: 11-Jun-2013 at 12:24 |
Originally posted by Hukumari
I as100 % pure Finn (Finnish) from eastern tribes like Carelia and Savo, I am not surprised about my autosomal DNA : My real results are:
8 LOCI = D3S1358, vWA, FGA, D8S1179, D21S11, D18S51, D5S818, D7S820:
34.3 % - Tofalar
33.5 % - Altai
32.6 % - Kichwa (Ecuador)
31.01 % - Puebla (Meksiko)
30.7 % - Puna (Luoteis-Argentiina)
29.97 % - Salta (Luoteis-Argentiina)
29.44 % - La Paz (Aymara), Bolivian pääkaupunki
28.9 % - Lima, Peru
27.61 % - Tuva
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What is autosomal DNA and why does yours apparently have amerindian sources?
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Hukumari
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Posted: 11-Jun-2013 at 16:43 |
Autosomal STR! With STR you can penetrate deeper in the history than with autosomal SNP. What is....? Please use Google and investigate the history and yDNA & autosomal STR of Tofalar. Even yDNA N1c1 founder has strongly Tofalar (Derenko).
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baydlag
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Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 18:51 |
Some reindeer herder people in northern Mongolia they calling themselves and their language Uugar. They separated by Tuvans by just border. May any finnish or samoed person can understand them.
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Hukumari
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Posted: 14-Jun-2013 at 00:27 |
Originally posted by baydlag
Some reindeer herder people in northern Mongolia they calling themselves and their language Uugar. They separated by Tuvans by just border. May any finnish or samoed person can understand them.
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Maybe they are part of ancient Jukaghir that later escaped to northeast to live with "ancient and new" Yakut. We have many common words (cognates) but we do not understand them any more after so many years. Thanks to Miroslava Derenko we know our genetic history from Sayan Mountains and Baikal area when Y-DNA N1c1 was born. But there was life before with Jukaghir (Uugar?), Yakut and Even. during N1c....even until Africa ("out of Africa").
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Hukumari
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Posted: 14-Jun-2013 at 00:33 |
Originally posted by ConradWeiser
I am in need of some aid.
By extension, I'm also fairly interested in the northern-most Japanese islands, such as Hokkaido...
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They told before that Ainus of Hokkaido linguistically and genetically are isolate. Not any more now.
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benzin
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Posted: 06-Jul-2013 at 14:25 |
Originally posted by baydlag
Some reindeer herder people in northern Mongolia they calling themselves and their language Uugar. They separated by Tuvans by just border. May any finnish or samoed person can understand them. |
Ugor languages are hungarian, mansi and chanti, but Id be very surprised if anyone speak a finno-ugrian language in northern mongolia :)
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Hukumari
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Posted: 07-Jul-2013 at 17:56 |
Originally posted by benzin
Originally posted by baydlag
Some reindeer herder people in northern Mongolia they calling themselves and their language Uugar. They separated by Tuvans by just border. May any finnish or samoed person can understand them. |
Ugor languages are hungarian, mansi and chanti, but Id be very surprised if anyone speak a finno-ugrian language in northern mongolia :) |
I agree, nothing more found except the following: "Yugra is also considered to be the place of origin of the Hungarians (in Hungarian magyar őshaza). It is thought that the name Hungary is a variety of the name Yugra (The Hungarians also were known in several languages under the name of Ugri, and are still known under this name in Ukrainian). Hungary is also said to derive from On-Ogur, meaning Ten Tribes or Ten Arrows. The Hungarian language is also the closest linguistic relative of Khanty and Mansi. It is considered that Hungarians moved from Yugra to the west, first settling on the western side of the Urals, in the region known as Magna Hungaria."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugra
The answer can be found in the cemetery of Egyin Gol, if time to investigate all the graves. Many of those families can be found among Finno-Ugric people.
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baydlag
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Posted: 28-Jul-2013 at 20:36 |
Reindeer herders in Mongolia are speaks exactly different language. But not sure is it Ugor or Turkish. They calling their language Uugar. In old nenets storytheir ancestors came from upper Yenisei.
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