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Topic ClosedPersian art painting proves Turks were Mongoloid

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Persian art painting proves Turks were Mongoloid
    Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 14:47
First of all, I really appreciate you about your search, but my brain is off now Confused Don't you try to proof that Turks of Central Asian are Mongoloid? This was your title.

Yamud and I  are supporting that Turks in Turkey and Turkmens of Turkmenistan have mongol genetic materials but their percent is small for calling them as mongoloid

then you said
"It doesn't matter their still a mixed group, Turkish should be considered Caucasoid with slight mongoloid admixture. But Turkmen should be consider mixed"

so now problem is just Turkmens. Are they mixed race or caucasoid? Am I right? However, your last post is different. You are saying that they were not affected by Mongol Invasian and its proof is that they don't have haplogroup Q.Confused

Originally posted by MrButlerKing

Turkmen are the only Turks in Central Asia who are unaffected by mongol invasion and the evidence is they don't have haplogroup Q




If they weren't affected, why we are discussing? Why we should call them mixed(Caucasoid-Mongoloid)?

Some sources about Turkmens

http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S0002929707643523

It says Turkmens; 55% European-18% South Asian -8% Middle Eastern- others. All these three groups are Caucasoid. That makes 70% Caucasoid.  
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2012-08-01.pdf

1 in 200 men direct descendants of Genghis Khan but not Turkmens

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.UUN3nDe6Yxo



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 13:47
u can see turk and turkmens are very close people 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 13:39
idk what kind of source u have  that make u believe its unchangeable fact ! first i must say This map is not accurate even if we believe it is so as u say cuz of turkmen live in golestan we An have extreme peek seen in the Golestan but u have forget 1 of major population of turkmen in iran live in city of bandare torkaman and port of kumish tepe in shores of khazar sea how  can ur unchangeable fact source and ironically accurate map explaine this ? hey whats happen to ur extreme peek oh wait we have 37000 turkmen in russia whats happen to them ?? whats happend to turkmens of stavropol ? we have 4000 turkmen in ukraine ??? lol their q gene has gone ?? stop this racist trolling actions u cant prove turkmens or turks has mongole back ground










Edited by yomud - 15-Mar-2013 at 13:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 12:29
All these talks are pointless if you don't have evidence, for example the 2nd point you made doesn't have any reality to it, show me  a source to back up your point.

Turkmen are the only Turks in Central Asia who are unaffected by mongol invasion and the evidence is they don't have haplogroup Q


[SIZE="5"]Asia
Q-M25 has been detected in the Northeast of East Asia, in South Asia, and across Central Asia.[1][2][3] Though present at low frequencies, it may be one of the more widely distributed branches of Q-M242 in Asia.


West Asia

The frequency of Q-M25 varies greatly across West Asia. This is eccoed in its distribution in Iran where it is over 9 percent of the population in the north but only 2 to 3 percent of the population in the south.[4] An extreme peek is seen in the Turkmen of Golestan).[5] The frequency of Q-M25 drops to only about 1 percent of the population in Lebanon's Muslims and is absent from the non-Muslim population there.[6] However, its presence in the Marsh Arabs of Iraq hints that Q-M25's West Asian history extends beyond a single localized recent founder.[7]


Europe

Q-M25 is present across modern Turkey[8] and in Eastern Europe.



Edited by MrButlerKing - 15-Mar-2013 at 12:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 08:06
first of all i never said " you can't find Mongoloid genes in that guy" i said not all of them look asians

2nd turkmen live with kazak and uzbegs in soviet union its normal to see mixed people even b4 this when mongols attack central asia they all mens and took the womens still it dont make turkmens  or turks are mongoloid background

3rd i dont know who told u that khodadad is turkmen it is honor to have national hero of football for us but he is NOT  turkmen ! if i am a turkmen which i am and if im iranian which i am i tell u this khodadad azizi is NOT A TURKMEN  he is persian he born in mashad im iranian i know this  u live in London how could u claim this "He is officially considered Turkmen because he is a ethnic Turkmen" if u walk in streets of tehran and yell khodadad azizi is turkmen than u will see the answer is just long loud laughing oh men u live in dream of trolling !


Edited by yomud - 15-Mar-2013 at 08:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 07:01

Here is 5 Turkmen that look more Asian, I bolded them in red circle just for you to kno


and in the end this is ur pic u said he is turkmen live in golestan but he is not turkmen and he dont live in golestan  

It doesn't matter what you think, what matters are hardcore facts. He is officially considered Turkmen because he is a ethnic Turkmen who is also a national hero of Iran football.





Edited by MrButlerKing - 15-Mar-2013 at 07:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 06:51
Originally posted by yomud

Originally posted by MrButlerKing

Originally posted by yomud

this is my gf she wear  blue turkmen charghad

gonbad e kavus- turkmen sahra-iran


Hey man, looking Caucasoid doesn't mean you don't have Mongoloid genes.


This women is a hollywood actress and she is half Chinese / half dutch. Her name is kristen kreuk



This guy is a actor and he is half Korean and half Canadian. His name is Julian Kang


first this 2 people are NOT look like my gf or my bro u better check ur eye maybe u need see a doctor 2nd i dont think any one check iranian turkmen gene in turkmenistan there are only 2 tribe Sarykand tekke but in iran there are more than 100 tribe nokhurli live in mashad tekke live in bejnord and torba jam tribe of goklan live from kalale to gonbad and yomud live from gonbad to city of sari
yomud have 3 major tribe jafarbay atabay agh atabay there are also some tribe that we dont know their orgin like ghojogh they live some where near shahrood its very normal some turkmen seen like asian guys cuz in soviet time they most men go to war later russian never give them back they marry with russian and ukrainan womens and live in east euro so womens marry with kazak mens its normal
but not all of them look asians
for more info " 1st Turkmenistan Mountain Division"
see this pic this is turkmenistan land force


not all of them look asians for prove of this is right pic of turkmen army u can look on shoulders and turkmen emblemon the top of the pic

and in the end this is ur pic u said he is turkmen live in golestan but he is not turkmen and he dont live in golestan


( by the way please remove that huge picture of Kristen Kruek, it's way too large. )

I'm making my point, you said you can't find Mongoloid genes in that guy ( as in appearance) and I'm telling you don't need too because many mix or part Asians are like that too.

Clearly mixed, 5 of them look more Asian, 8 them look mix but more Caucasian, the rest just looks almost Caucasoid.  Even in some cases 50/50 Asian can end up looking Caucasoid

I didn't say Turkmens are not 50/50 but many of you are 1/4 Asian, 1/3 Asian, 1/2 Asian, although the average is 1/5 Asian.  Here is 1/4 Chinese + 3/4 British model, her name is Alexa Chung. Do you understand what I'm saying?



Edited by MrButlerKing - 15-Mar-2013 at 07:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 06:39
Originally posted by MrButlerKing

Originally posted by yomud

this is my gf she wear  blue turkmen charghad

gonbad e kavus- turkmen sahra-iran


Hey man, looking Caucasoid doesn't mean you don't have Mongoloid genes.


This women is a hollywood actress and she is half Chinese / half dutch. Her name is kristen kreuk



This guy is a actor and he is half Korean and half Canadian. His name is Julian Kang


first this 2 people are NOT look like my gf or my bro u better check ur eye maybe u need see a doctor 2nd i dont think any one check iranian turkmen gene in turkmenistan there are only 2 tribe Sarykand tekke but in iran there are more than 100 tribe nokhurli live in mashad tekke live in bejnord and torba jam tribe of goklan live from kalale to gonbad and yomud live from gonbad to city of sari
yomud have 3 major tribe jafarbay atabay agh atabay there are also some tribe that we dont know their orgin like ghojogh they live some where near shahrood its very normal some turkmen seen like asian guys cuz in soviet time they most men go to war later russian never give them back they marry with russian and ukrainan womens and live in east euro so womens marry with kazak mens its normal
but not all of them look asians
for more info " 1st Turkmenistan Mountain Division"
see this pic this is turkmenistan land force


not all of them look asians for prove of this is right pic of turkmen army u can look on shoulders and turkmen emblemon the top of the pic

and in the end this is ur pic u said he is turkmen live in golestan but he is not turkmen and he dont live in golestan


u know this guy and u know he is not turkmen but still u introduce him as turkmen what kind of sick men ur are whats ur problem ?


Edited by yomud - 15-Mar-2013 at 06:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 06:36
BK, you might not fully understand the full meaning of this, if not, ask around.
 
You sir are trying my patience and open mindedness, to the limits. Do not challenge or ignore my authority, you won't like the results.


Originally posted by Qaradag

Dear bulldog, you should at least know that you are dealing with a troll whos sole purpose is trolling, don't waste your time.

If my purpose here is to troll like you guys think, than why aren't I spamming post but rather posting stuffs with hardcore facts?

I had all my evidences prepared to counter attack your claims. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 06:18
Originally posted by Bulldog

Originally posted by MrButlerKing

This is exactly what I mean, pseudo science mixed with ideology and some kind of ethnic-nationalism.

Is that the only thing you can say? if it's pseudo science than why even your own Turkish scientist  claim you are not what you are?

Even in terms of Caucasoid DNA Turkish people are different from Central Asian
 

Compare people from Turkey with people from Azerbaycan, Iran, Turkmenistan and see what you get.  

You talk of Central Asia like its a homogenous block.

Again your totally ignoring the fact that the Mongols committed one of the biggest population shifts ad demographic changes in history. Estimates of up to 30-40 million deaths, mass rapes etc etc in that era caused major changes.

The Turks who fled West were pre-Mongol era, the Oghuz Turks still felt the impact of the Mongols but not as harshly as those on the Steppe. 


Hey yo, I didn't deny that Mongolian genetic changed what the demographic of Central Asian looked like.  However Central Asians were still between Mongoloid and Caucasoid. Mongolian invasion added 20-25% of their Mongoloid genes to Central Asia.

Why Kazakh and Kyrgyz  are genetically 70% Mongoloid? historically they were 35 -50% Mongoloid according to racial anthropology, after the invasion they got effected heavily and look Mongoloid as a result.   Uzbeks also got influenced and they were originally 20-30% Mongoloid on average, now they are 40-50% Mongoloid.


Don't believe me?

http://www.scientificfund.kz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7:physical-anthropology-of-kazakh-people-and-their-genesis&catid=4:1&Itemid=4



Edited by MrButlerKing - 15-Mar-2013 at 06:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 06:10
Originally posted by MrButlerKing

This is exactly what I mean, pseudo science mixed with ideology and some kind of ethnic-nationalism.

Is that the only thing you can say? if it's pseudo science than why even your own Turkish scientist  claim you are not what you are?

Even in terms of Caucasoid DNA Turkish people are different from Central Asian
 

Compare people from Turkey with people from Azerbaycan, Iran, Turkmenistan and see what you get.  

You talk of Central Asia like its a homogenous block.

Again your totally ignoring the fact that the Mongols committed one of the biggest population shifts ad demographic changes in history. Estimates of up to 30-40 million deaths, mass rapes etc etc in that era caused major changes.

The Turks who fled West were pre-Mongol era, the Oghuz Turks still felt the impact of the Mongols but not as harshly as those on the Steppe. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 05:52

u want me to prove ur pic are wrong ok than one of ur pic is pic of khodadad azizi persian football player he is very famous and he is live in tehran not golestan i wonder why u keep lying  and i didn't mean turkmen should have 50 mongoloid gene i said turkmen must have at least half of their population mongoloid 
this is my bro gazi osman pasha univ-skishehir-turkey


You haven't proven me wrong at all. 

Khodadad Azizi was born in Mashad which is very close to modern day Golestan. It doesn't matter if he lives in Tehran now, what matters is where he was born.


i wonder why u keep lying  and i didn't mean turkmen should have 50 mongoloid gene i said turkmen must have at least half of their population mongoloid 

I didn't say 50% of Turkmen look Mongoloid, trying proving that I did first. I claimed a large part of your population looks Mongoloid and Turkmen should be considered mix.




Originally posted by yomud

this is my gf she wear  blue turkmen charghad  

gonbad e kavus- turkmen sahra-iran


i dont see any of mongolid gene u talking about

 

I didn't say all Turkmen look Mongoloid, not that it changes anything by posting such pic. Hey man, looking like Caucasoid doesn't mean you don't have Mongoloid genes.


Here are example people that looks nothing mongoloid either,

This women is a hollywood actress and she is green eyed half Chinese / half dutch. Her name is kristen kreuk



This guy is a actor and he is half Korean and half Canadian. His name is Julian Kang




Mike Shinoda half Japanese



Edited by MrButlerKing - 15-Mar-2013 at 06:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 05:47
This is exactly what I mean, pseudo science mixed with ideology and some kind of ethnic-nationalism.

Is that the only thing you can say? if it's pseudo science than why even your own Turkish scientist  claim you are not what you are?

Even in terms of Caucasoid DNA Turkish people are different from Central Asian

"According to a 2012 study on ethnic Turks of Turkey, Hodoğlugil revealed that there is a significant overlap between Turks and Middle Easterners and a relationship with Europeans and South and Central Asians when Kyrgyz samples are genotyped and analysed. It displays a genetic ancestry for the Turks of 45% Middle Eastern, 40% European and 15% Central Asian. However, the Turkish genetic structure is unique, and there is an admixture of Turkish people reflecting the population migration patterns"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 04:46
this is my gf she wear  blue turkmen charghad

gonbad e kavus- turkmen sahra-iran


Edited by yomud - 15-Mar-2013 at 04:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 04:44
i dont see any of mongolid gene u talking about


 

skishehir-turky




Edited by yomud - 15-Mar-2013 at 04:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 04:32
Originally posted by MrButlerKing



50% is only part, in my opinion , so is 25%. If a 50% Mongoloid mated with a Caucasian he will be 25% Mongoloid.

took pic of hazars from afghanestan  

Try proving that to me. All those pictures are Turkmen from Golestan.
u want me to prove ur pic are wrong ok than one of ur pic is pic of khodadad azizi persian football player he is very famous and he is live in tehran not golestan i wonder why u keep lying  and i didn't mean turkmen should have 50 mongoloid gene i said turkmen must have at least half of their population mongoloid

this is my bro gazi osman pasha univ-skishehir-turkey



Edited by yomud - 15-Mar-2013 at 04:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 01:08
Dear bulldog, you should at least know that you are dealing with a troll whos sole purpose is trolling, don't waste your time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2013 at 21:56
Originally posted by MrButlerKing


I mean't Turkish people want to say Turkic people were Caucasoid but they were not. Turkish people today are not even real Turks, they are primary descendants of Anatolians who mixed with a very large number of Turkmen who were part Mongoloid.
 

This is exactly what I mean, pseudo science mixed with ideology and some kind of ethnic-nationalism. 

Nobody said Turks are Caucasoid or Mongoloid, your talking about Eurasia where exactly is the boundary where 'Caucasoid' becomes 'Mongoloid' where is it? 

The region where Turks are from is inbetween Caucasoid/Mongoloid people, it's very plausible in fact it would be a miracle for Turks not to have elements of both. 

Who are you to determine who is or isn't a real Turk? do you know how Turks looked prior to the Mongol invasion? 

Why do the most populous Turkish group the Oghuz for the most part look pretty similar? why is it that the Turks who fled from the Mongols look pretty similar? we are talking numbers around 100-150 million! a huge population mass. 

So one day Anatolians decided they would become Turks... common... your telling me sedentary, educated city folk in Anatolian cities which were among the most advanced on Earth decided they were going to adopt the way of nomadic warriors within a few decades? 

Because a century after the Turks arrived in Anatolia there was such a change that Europeans called the land Turchia, it's not a term coined by the Turks. 

What is a Turk? if someone says they are a Turk, speaks Turkish as their mother tongue, there parents were Turks etc etc who are you to say they aren't Turks? 

Turks traditionally had no concept of 'pure blood' they practiced marrying outside of the tribe, mixing was very much encouraged and they were right as it is more healthy to bring new genes in.


It doesn't matter their still a mixed group, Turkish should be considered Caucasoid with slight mongoloid admixture. But Turkmen should be consider mixed, if we consider them as Caucasoid because they are closer to Caucasoid than many hollywood celebrities who are 1/4 Chinese, 1/3 Japanese, or almost 1/2 Korean should all be considered Caucasoid.pe, but they are still caucasoid. Because their mongoloid structure is less than 25%. 

Turks from Turkey I can agree although Mongoloid admixture can range in Turkey from province to province, some province shows Turkish people are 15-20% Mongoloid on average.  That means that many of the  Turkmen/Sejuks who conquered Turkey would have been from 30-40% Mongoloid.
 

Comparing todays Mongoloid Caucosoid etc is a red herring, post-Mongol invasion its difficult to get a true grasp of the demographic change which took place. A lot of the male population was exterminated, Ceghiz Kagan raped so many women that today he has 20 million descendants. 

Measuring Turkishness by how Mongol a person looks is a red herring argument. Shouldn't Chinese be the real Turks then...

Oghuz originated from what eastern Kazakhstan and expanded south to Turkmenistan and mixed the indeniousness Iranic people.
 


Comparing todays Mongoloid Caucosoid etc is a red herring, post-Mongol invasion its difficult to get a true grasp of the demographic change which to 

Again your confusing pre-Mongol Kazakistan with post-Mongol Kazakistan. 

Also Iranic people if you go back far enough are also from Eurasia/Central Asia so there is another red herring. 


Edited by Bulldog - 14-Mar-2013 at 22:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2013 at 21:49
BK, you might not fully understand the full meaning of this, if not, ask around.
 
You sir are trying my patience and open mindedness, to the limits. Do not challenge or ignore my authority, you won't like the results.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2013 at 19:07
Nation wise, Turks of Turkey, Azerbaycan, Iran, Turkmenistan, middle east, Balkans... all belong to the Oghuz Turks, the Turkish is mutually intelligible, same legends & epics, similar cuisines, music etc


Oghuz originated from what eastern Kazakhstan and expanded south to Turkmenistan and mixed the indeniousness Iranic people.


Your original Oghuz speaker look like this

Among the Oghuz (mainly in the steppe zone of their resettlement) dominated Mongoloid racial type. "They - wrote about the Aral Oghuz in the tenth century. Al-Masudi, - most of undersized (Turks) and they have very small eyes" [11]. Other medieval authors note poorly defined vegetation on the face and body and Ploskonos Oguz. All of this suggests Mongoloid features that were characteristic of the bulk predominantly steppe Oguz [12].





 Turkey was not the only one's who transported millions of Balkan and Circassian slaves to their contry and diluting their Mongoloid DNA., even the Uzbek and Turkmen also had transported million of Iranian slaves to their countries.

MILLION OF TURKMEN AND UZBEKS TODAY ARE REALITY DESCENDANTS OF PERSIAN SLAVES, WHO MIXED AND ASSIMILATED WITH TURKS AND DILUTING THEIR MONGOLOID DNA

" During the first half of the 19th century alone, some one million Persians, as well as an unknown number of Russians, were enslaved and transported to Central Asian khanates.[33][34] When the Russian troops took Khiva in 1898 there were 29,300 Persian slaves, captured by Turkoman raiders. According of Josef Wolff (Report of 1843–1845) the population of the Khanate of  Bukhara was 1,200,000, of whom 200,000 were Persian slaves.[35]  "

Source:^ Mayhew, Bradley. "Fabled Cities of Central Asia: Samarkand, Bukhara, Khiva: Robin Magowan, Vadim E. Gippenreiter". Amazon.com. Retrieved 4 December 2011.
^ Report of Josef Wolff 1843–1845
^ "Slave of the Caucasus". BBC News. 1


Edited by MrButlerKing - 14-Mar-2013 at 19:20
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