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are south east asians partially indian?

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SuryaVajra View Drop Down
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  Quote SuryaVajra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: are south east asians partially indian?
    Posted: 12-Jun-2013 at 23:55
Maybe

But trying to explain everything by ignoring the inconvenient is not criticism.

Thats skepticism. 
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 11:09
Originally posted by SuryaVajra

 
Bows? You mean bows and arrows? What in the world for would you carry bows in a boat? I dont think Indians practiced bow fishing. 
 
For use when they landed (after getting out of the boat, they might need to hunt or fight somebody).  Most explorers carried weapons, especially weapons they were familiar with.
 
Originally posted by Cryptic

Also, lets look at what other technologies the Indians would have had, yet for some reason did not transmit to the indigenous Australians:
-Agriculture
Also, I think no agriculture / transmission of plants needs to be examined further.  Ancient seafarers usually provisioned their ships on the assumption that they might need to stay in their destination for a period of time and would need things to eat.  For explorers of any culture, that usually meant familiar things to eat.  
 
For example, polynesian voyagers brought Taro plants and pigs. Europeans brought plant seeds.   To my knowledge, no transmissions of agriculture, plants and animals occured with Australia.
 
I truly think that any ancient seafarers in that part of the world would have brought pigs as a source of food.  They are low maintenance, tasty, reproduce easily and smaller ones are easy to transport.  Once in Australia, some would have escaped and gone feral.
 
Originally posted by SuryaVajra

Is it that easy to spread languages? The spread of languages or major linguistic indications as you describe it can happen only as a consequence of prolonged and potent military conquest or intense religious diffusion.
I can accept that in general, especially with migrants. 
 
But if the migrants have the advanced culture (and the indians would of) I think some transmission of words or even languages can be expected.  If they had enough contact to transmit DNA, why not a language, especially to the creole population?
 
Originally posted by SuryaVajra

While the discovery of such forges would have been a strong archaeological evidence, the absence of the same evidence does not disprove the stated.

What are the chances that a group of migrants( notably small in comparison to the native
They had not come prepared for causing a revolution in Australia. They may very well have had little metal implements in their ships. To expect them to find Australia's metal deposits is fastidious.
Ok, I can accept that.
 
 


Edited by Cryptic - 13-Jun-2013 at 11:19
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2013 at 15:27
We all know there are no elephants in the Americas. Isn't it surprising in Mayan country, such as this one in Copan. It may be a reminder of the elephants in India.

Phooey!  There are no Elephants here now.  However there were Elephants here, at one time.  Mastodons.  About 20 miles from where I live there were Mastodon bones found and carbon dated at approx. 5,500 years in age.  That would have put them alive at about 3500 bce.  There is no reason to believe that they were not around for an early South American culture such as the Olmec or others to have seen them.
I have several carvings that suggest the cultures here had seen both the Mastodon and an extinct form of Bison. 
 
Also, there is considerable evidence of contact with Africa.  There are several examples of elephants in Olmec art and in their "toys".  So the contact with India becomes as speculative as anything else.
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote SuryaVajra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2013 at 00:28
Red, you are referring to the extinct species of Mastodon Americanum

The meso American motif clearly shows no resemblance to this species, if you look closely.


If you can show me evidence that another species of Elephant having more semblance to the Elephas Maximus ....Then my claim falls on its nose.


http://media-1.web.britannica.com/eb-media/99/94699-034-B64D78EC.jpg



Please note the prominently oblique Parietal, the noticeably small ears and the typical tusks.

The motif clearly stands with the Indian or African species especially with respect to the forehead.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2013 at 09:54
The motif is a stylization, an interpretation.  You are in complete denial of any thing that runs contrary to your delusional ramblings.
 
You are a Hindu Nationalist, an apologist trying to make up for the fact that India has been a stagnant backwater for the last 500 years. Your trying to create grandeur where there isn't any.  I have wasted enough time with this silliness. 
 
 


Edited by red clay - 19-Jun-2013 at 10:01
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote SuryaVajra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2013 at 11:08
It does not end with just a motif and a common origin of the calender Red.....There is a lot more to it you wouldn't imagine

I will make that clear some other time.

Maybe then you will regret these stinging barbs.

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2013 at 15:25
Surya, I have 2 degrees .  My graduate work was done on Historical Ceramics, with an accent on Meso America and Neolithic cultures.  I am probably more familiar with Mayan decorative works than you could ever dream of.
Anything you could come with would have to compete with what I already know as fact. 
 
It's very sad, your no different than the other ultras that come here.  Your not able to be proud of the established proved achievements of the Indian People, no that's not enough, you have to claim nearly every advance made by man, regardless of reality. 
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2013 at 23:19
Red Clay, how could anyone who had done graduate work related to Meso America confuse the Olmec for an "early South American culture"?
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2013 at 11:20
Originally posted by lirelou

Red Clay, how could anyone who had done graduate work related to Meso America confuse the Olmec for an "early South American culture"?
 
 

Archaeologists divide Mesoamerican civilizational development into three major time periods: the PreClassic or Formative period extending from 1500 B.C. - A.D. 300, the Classic period extending from A.D. 300-950, and the PostClassic period extending from A.D. 950-1521.

There is considerable evidence for earlier dating, some from the Jana Island complex[ funerary] and other places.
 
I'm not confusing anything, the Olmec predate the Maya and the Aztec, so what would you call it?
 
And consider this, when I was doing graduate work, [early 70's]  the general opinion was that the Olmec was a "mother Civilization" there are some who still hold this view.
 
So why the personal attack?  Or are you playing Geography games? 
You have added nothing to the discussion, your trolling.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by red clay - 20-Jun-2013 at 11:50
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Hukumari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2013 at 13:06
Originally posted by lirelou

Why can't it be a Tapir, an animal the Mayans certainly were familiar with. Likewise, are we to presume that all the underworld characters depicted in Mayan art actually existed?

Pleae stop that nonsense if you do NOT have any genetic proof (Y-DNA, autosoma STR or autosomal SNP). I have been working with this probleb for 8 years in Central Americal
 
 
Edited for offensive content.  Red Clay. 
 
Hukumari, I actually agree with what I deleted, but it still would be offensive to others.
 
 
 


Edited by red clay - 20-Jun-2013 at 14:36
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2013 at 14:56
I am one of those folks who retained every textbook I needed for nearly every course, undergrad to grad.
I was just rattling around my library, looking for an Art History text I had from Freshman year, 1967.  It gives a date of 10,000 + for the origination of the Olmec culture.
 
Was it correct? In the mind of the author it was, at the time.  Was he wrong? Or was he victimized by revisionist thinking? 
 
Surya, Pre Columbian Arch. can be as problematic as Indian.  It's not something you just bop into and out of.
 
However, stylistic analysis of some pre Columbian ceramics shows a definite Asian influence at an early time.  And as Japanese and Chinese influences are present, I couldn't seriously rule out Indian Influences, even though there isn't immediate evidence of it.
 
Both Coasts were much more active than the isolationists would have us believe.
 
                                                  
 
 
 
 
  


Edited by red clay - 20-Jun-2013 at 15:00
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2013 at 11:40
According to current American theories about the orignins of the Amerind, they were orignally Mongols who either (a) migrated across the Bering Land Bridge, or (b) migrated in boats following the coastlines of the time.  Either way, given the intermix of Mongol/Asian groups, it comes as no surprise to find some genetic compatibility.

It's the classic question of which came first - the chicken or the egg?  Currently, the belief seems to be that the Asian/Mongol races arose in the East first and came to the American subcontinent secondarily, but all of that could easily change as newer data becomes available.

However, I will put forth one observation that will be difficult to contest:  Asian women are far more beautiful that any Amerind female, past or present.  Big smile

(No offense to any Amerinds among us)
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2013 at 12:57
Well...I might or might not agree about yer last...having been 'engaged' er... hm.... so to speak with both.

There are also promoters of a mongoloid-caucasoid mix of ethnicities ref. the op....vice American Indians. Thru something known as 'lagodan influences'...whatever in the hell that is...



Sounds like when I puke on bad Tonto wine.

Tho...I don't argue the principal theory of 'New World Migration Model'. I remain open to variable routes.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 30-Jun-2013 at 12:59
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2013 at 13:20
Originally posted by lirelou

Balochii, if you read up on the various states of Southeast that existed prior to the Vietnamese march south, you will see that all had Indian merchants resident in them, and all claimed descent from various Indian founders. Even the Cham peoples, who could be found in southern Central Vietnam as late as the 1800s. 

While there may be some genetic Indian contributions to the modern inhabitants of SEA, it helps to remember that India is a culture shared by many 'races' within the sub-continent, and had a lasting influence on Burma, Cambodia, Laos and Thailand, all either descended from Indianized states, or conquerors of the same who adopted much from the Indianized states they conquered. Mon-Khmers and Malay also have dark skins.



Cambodia is derived from Cambyses.  The Sassanians were in Vietnam where they recall nushivan and one of the biggest families "bunnag" related to the royal family has Persian ancestry....  This isn't Indian but Iranian of course.
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  Quote mojobadshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2013 at 13:21
Bunnag are from Thailand.
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